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Post by habmeister on Feb 6, 2002 12:21:47 GMT -5
Alright here is a chance for a lot of you to privately and discreetly admit to your sins and be done away with them. A lot of you, and i mean a lot of you were wanting to trade theodore in the summer, september, october, and keep hackett as our #1. I'm proud to say that not only was i against that, but i believed that theodore had the potential to do what he is doing right now. Why you ask? Because i am a statman, and his stats these past few season said he was a top 5 goalie.
So here is your chance to be honest you sinners, and after you're done drink a few bloody hail mary's or whatever you do for being so full of the devil!!!
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Post by The New Guy on Feb 6, 2002 13:00:12 GMT -5
I admit, I had doubts about Theo. Last season despite being behind a unbelievably shaky defence, I had him pegged as a mediocore goalie with great determination and stellar reflexes. Positionally he seemed unsure of himself, often reading a play all wrong and in turn giving up a goal. My money was on Garon to be the next superstar goalie in Montreal, as although he was easier to shake and a bit slower in the reflex department - he was much more technically sound.
It was the determination that was my downfall. Over the summer he matured 110% and became nothing short of a miracle worker. The positioning problem? It's not there any more - well, virtually not there anyways. I still see a few questionable choices in the way he plays, but in general he seems much more confident. He regularily comes out of his crease to challenge the shooter. His lateral movement is phenominal and that look in his eyes reminds me of St. Patrick in the 1993 playoffs.
Last season I would've traded Theo for a reasonable offer. This season I can only imagine even considering trading Theo for a few million draft picks, Ilya Kovalchuk, Patrick Roy and a player to be named later.
Later
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Post by PTH on Feb 6, 2002 13:17:16 GMT -5
I wasn't sold on Theo becoming a star, but I was convinced Hack had to be dealt.
Your poll doesn't leave much room for people like me - who might not have been sure he was going to be a star, but were sure he was a solid NHL goalie for a long time.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 6, 2002 13:33:49 GMT -5
All right, I'll take credit for this one.
I have always felt Theodore was the man. Not "the man" as in he should have been the starter 3 years ago, but "the man" as in I always thought he would one day be an very good goalie. I have never been a real fan of Garon, and still aren't really.
For me, Theo always had two qualities that made me think he was going to be a star:
1) Very good reflexes. Absolutely necessary because he isn't the biggest guy in the universe.
2) Tremendous fire. Go all the way back to his World Junior days, his Memorial Cup playoff runs, that incredible triple overtime playoff game against New Jersey - Theodore has always had that swagger, that cockiness that said "I am going to be a star." Not "want to be a star", not "I want to be a star." He just seems to step it up when the pressure is on.
People always complained about his positional play, or his tendancy to give up big rebounds, but those things can be overcome with teaching and learning. Reflexes and desire are much more difficult to obtain if you don't already have them.
So I win.
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Post by Psycorp on Feb 6, 2002 13:40:12 GMT -5
I admit, i did think about trading Theodore 8), here is why: At the time (summer), i thinked Theo and Hackett were 2 very good goalies but Hackett had no trade value. So, yes, i was prepared to move Theodore because the return would have been good while Hackett could have done the same job and stop whining about not playing because Garon woudn't have been ready yet. Theo for a powerforward = yes (At the time)  (It's my second language so i lack eloquence, sorry  ) |
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Post by clear observer on Feb 6, 2002 13:42:20 GMT -5
Well...being the proessional, amateur scout that I am...I saw an immediate presence in this kid 5...yup...five seasons ago when he was brought into a play-off game (against the Rangers?) in relief of T-Bo, where he was outstanding facing some 50+ shots. His cockiness was as evident then as is now. Of course that trait alone doesn't assure anything, but one could see the raw talent and determination in his game. He had rough edges, but the poyential of greatness was there. At the very least, a player who would make it.
The Hackett acquisition helped this kid alot, as did the the handling of him by Rollie. He improved by leaps and bounds season to season and upon witnessing this (by season three), I, too, promoted (on CFHW) a movement of Hackett (unpopular at the time, huh, BC?) in for fair market value to fill other needs as I felt that with Theo, Michaud and Garon-in-the-waiting, we'd be fine in the pipes.
In all honesty, yep, I've been on the "trade Hackett - keep Theo" wagon since day one.
If only Reggie had taken my call...oh well...the good thing is that Theo has in fact developed into "elitist" status. Let's hope he stays there. I'm sure he will.
Nice thread pasta man,
CO
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Post by Ryan on Feb 6, 2002 15:01:42 GMT -5
I'll admit that I never thought Theo could be this good, but I don't remember every wanting him dealt. I didn't question that the return would be better on him, than Hackett, but he's established now, so we could deal Garon if we wanted too. I doubt Garon could ever top Theo, but he may be just as good some day.
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Post by Maritimer on Feb 6, 2002 15:12:16 GMT -5
I can't say I ever expected him to be a Conn Smythe winner ;D
But....I had watched Theo throughout his AHL career living 1 hour from Fredericton and being a season ticket holder for the "hated" Saint John Flames.
The man had the ability to steal games in the AHL and had the cockiness required. I have seen one goalie with that ability to steal games recently....His name is Garon
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 6, 2002 15:32:51 GMT -5
OH it is sweet to be proven right ;D
At the start of last year,when Theodore missed camp and sucked until January,I kept telling the gang that he would get back to normal,he needed to shakeoff the rust,he is a better goalie than Hackett and will be our number 1 for years to come,etc.Some wanted to trade him and make Garon the #1,etc.
Well,looks like I was right.Theodore is now one of the best goalies in the NHL,he is our MVP,he steals games and points for us and he looks like a perfect player to rebuild a team around.
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 6, 2002 15:35:33 GMT -5
Well...being the proessional, amateur scout that I am...I saw an immediate presence in this kid 5...yup...five seasons ago when he was brought into a play-off game (against the Rangers?) in relief of T-Bo, where he was outstanding facing some 50+ shots. His cockiness was as evident then as is now. Of course that trait alone doesn't assure anything, but one could see the raw talent and determination in his game. He had rough edges, but the poyential of greatness was there. At the very least, a player who would make it. The Hackett acquisition helped this kid alot, as did the the handling of him by Rollie. He improved by leaps and bounds season to season and upon witnessing this (by season three), I, too, promoted (on CFHW) a movement of Hackett (unpopular at the time, huh, BC?) in for fair market value to fill other needs as I felt that with Theo, Michaud and Garon-in-the-waiting, we'd be fine in the pipes. In all honesty, yep, I've been on the "trade Hackett - keep Theo" wagon since day one. If only Reggie had taken my call...oh well...the good thing is that Theo has in fact developed into "elitist" status. Let's hope he stays there. I'm sure he will. Nice thread pasta man, CO You are getting the playoff series mixed up.We faced the Rangers in 1996,Theo shined against the Devils in 1997. |
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Post by hab1fan on Feb 6, 2002 15:40:22 GMT -5
I knew Jose was going to be good the year he played against the Devils in the playoffs. I also knew Thibault was going to be good under the right circumstances and Chicago seems to be it. Both of these guys were young when they were both with the Canadiens and they have both matured into great NHL goalies. Wouldn't it be nice to see a Montreal-Chicago finals in a couple of years?  |
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Post by Habsolutely on Feb 6, 2002 16:15:54 GMT -5
All right, I'll take credit for this one. I have always felt Theodore was the man. Not "the man" as in he should have been the starter 3 years ago, but "the man" as in I always thought he would one day be an very good goalie. I have never been a real fan of Garon, and still aren't really. For me, Theo always had two qualities that made me think he was going to be a star: 1) Very good reflexes. Absolutely necessary because he isn't the biggest guy in the universe. 2) Tremendous fire. Go all the way back to his World Junior days, his Memorial Cup playoff runs, that incredible triple overtime playoff game against New Jersey - Theodore has always had that swagger, that cockiness that said "I am going to be a star." Not "want to be a star", not "I want to be a star." He just seems to step it up when the pressure is on. People always complained about his positional play, or his tendancy to give up big rebounds, but those things can be overcome with teaching and learning. Reflexes and desire are much more difficult to obtain if you don't already have them. So I win. Me too, honestly. I was expecting at the beginning of the year.. a breakout season for Theodore and he has done just that. But now, it's Vezina and MVP trophies votes that he could get which is even better. There is something that doesn't lie in Theodore.. it's his caractere. After all he went through with this franchise. The contracts, the minors, the problems with the management, he has always stepped up to the plate and reacted as a champ and a winner. His cockiness and arrogance will make him the best netminder in 2-3 years in the entire league. That's the same arrogance and cockiness along with supreme talent that made Roy the best ever. That made Roy better than Brodeur. It's the same cockiness and arrogance that will allow Theodore to be better than Luongo. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 6, 2002 16:21:00 GMT -5
And you can add,it's the same cockiness and arrogance(or lack thereof) that has prevented Brodeur from being the best goalie in the NHL(with no doubt) for the past 5 years.
Theo is da bomb! ;D we should sign him long term,ASAP.
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Post by HFTO on Feb 6, 2002 17:04:20 GMT -5
Jose Theodore was always going to be a solid NHLer.I think most must admit he is playing even better than we ever imagined.Though I was open to dealing Theodore just because I felt his return would be very high I always liked his I can carry the team attitude even when the team was crumbling down around him.The only thing our young Theodore has to prove is consistency over the long haul if he is our next patron saint in goal and Hainsey and Komiserik are the real deal the Habs future will be very bright.
Go habs
HFTO
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 6, 2002 17:10:09 GMT -5
Jose Theodore was always going to be a solid NHLer.I think most must admit he is playing even better than we ever imagined.Though I was open to dealing Theodore just because I felt his return would be very high I always liked his I can carry the team attitude even when the team was crumbling down around him.The only thing our young Theodore has to prove is consistency over the long haul if he is our next patron saint in goal and Hainsey and Komiserik are the real deal the Habs future will be very bright. Go habs HFTO Now,all we need,is a (drum roll)...a big center! |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 6, 2002 19:49:02 GMT -5
I wanted him dealt. 8)
Not because I didn't like him or thought he wasn't gonna be good, but quite the opposite, because I felt his trade value was real high (even higher now) and that we had the goaltending depth with Hackett, Garon and Tarasov to still look good in goal if we could trade Theo for a great return.
But that was then...
Today there isn't much trading propositions I'd consider for him. Has BC pointed out Theo always had that fire and flair that we love plus he's a local boy with great media presence (better then Roy at that IMO) and that made him virtually untradable to boot. Now he adds to the mix the star performance on a consistant basis so he is, at quite a young age, the dream franchise player for Montreal.
But here's a sub question to this poll, being Savard, if somehow you landed across a trade offer, at this point and time, of a one for one deal of Lecavalier for Theodore, would you do it?
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Post by clear observer on Feb 6, 2002 20:10:54 GMT -5
Great question Doc!
Start a new thread/poll and put a "sticky" on it...I'm certain you'll get great feedback.
CO
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Post by Big_D on Feb 6, 2002 22:14:26 GMT -5
If you would re-phrase the question to 12 months ago, instead of six, I would have voted otherwise, but about this time last year, he really started proving himself. Last year before Hacketts injury, I wouldn't have complained if we'd have traded Theo, and bet the farm on Hack. Amazing how ones opinion can change so much in one year. |
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Post by habmeister on Feb 6, 2002 22:42:29 GMT -5
its good to see some of you fessing up, but there were a lot more of you that were for dealing him than against it.
the fact now is can we afford theodore when his contract is up?
It'll be a very interesting negotiation.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 6, 2002 23:06:16 GMT -5
And if I'm not mistaken, is contract is up...
this year!
The kid is in for a serious katching$$, katching$$ raise. A wild guess? 4mil...
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Post by habmeister on Feb 7, 2002 3:00:58 GMT -5
$4 mil are you crazy doc!?!? If i was this kids agent, i wouldn't talk about anything less than $5, and i'd start the bidding around $6.
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 7, 2002 19:20:44 GMT -5
$4 mil are you crazy doc!?!? If i was this kids agent, i wouldn't talk about anything less than $5, and i'd start the bidding around $6. Relax there,Daniel Alfredsson makes about 3-4 million this year,Markus Naslund makes 5 million this year.And they are closer,much closer,to UFA than Theodore. A 5 year,20-25 million deal would be perfect.Start out at 3 million,get to 4,to 5,to 6...etc |
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Post by habmeister on Feb 7, 2002 19:24:01 GMT -5
I live in vancouver, so please don't tell me about markus naslund. He openly admits that he could have gotten a fair bit more, he loves vancouver, and his family lives here year round, that is why he took the $5 mil.
Alright i would settle for $4 mil, but with incentives. This kid deserves the big dollars for his dedication to this organization. He never whined or complained or asked to be traded.
I'm just happy he's an unrestricted FA.
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 8, 2002 17:06:59 GMT -5
I live in vancouver, so please don't tell me about markus naslund. He openly admits that he could have gotten a fair bit more, he loves vancouver, and his family lives here year round, that is why he took the $5 mil. <br> Alright i would settle for $4 mil, but with incentives. This kid deserves the big dollars for his dedication to this organization. He never whined or complained or asked to be traded. I'm just happy he's an unrestricted FA. Still,Theodore could take a similar deal...and Naslund is much closer to UFA than Theo. By the way,he is a restricted FA. |
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