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Post by BadCompany on Feb 3, 2002 13:06:27 GMT -5
Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
OR!
Take up (new) arms, against a sea of troubles, and by opposing them, end them. To die, to sleep, perchance to dream of making the playoffs...
I was going to make this a poll, but then I wouldn't be able to post a million words on it.
So far, Andre Savard has made the "easy" trades. I say easy, because they were not trades nobody didn't think were going to happen, nor were they trades anybody was particularily mad at. Zholtok was doing nothing, Weinrich, Savage, Rucinsky and even Brunet were UFA's, Linden was a lightning rod for criticism here, and a guy who commanded value elsewhere, and even Zubrus was starting to take on some criticism. Though I still wish we had Zubrus.
Now though, now the going gets difficult. There are no more UFA's on the team, and any trade of significance is going to hurt. We are going to lose somebody we like. Darby, Poulin, Traverse, Bouillon - those guys have all cleared waivers and have little to no value. Any deal we make now, and we are talking about good players. Good, young players. Markov. Bulis. Zednik. Hainsey. Garon. Hossa. Ribeiro. The players we would wouldn't care all that much to see traded - the Petrovs, the Quintals, the Sourays, the Rivets, the Hacketts - they don't have much value and they won't bring back much. Any deal we make now, is going to be a big one, even if its just one player for one player.
If there is another trade, some people are not going to be happy. Fans, media, fellow players, somebody will not be happy with the deal.
So the question is, then, will there be another trade?
I say no. I say that this is the lineup, more or less, that you will see from now until the end of the year.
Savard has shown in the past that he loves depth, and will not sacrifice it for nothing. Therefor guys like Hackett, and Souray, guys who other teams probably won't offer more than a draft pick for, will probably stay here until the summer. They may come in useful before the season is out, and Savard still wants to make the playoffs and won't do anything that could concievably jeopardize those chances.
For that very same reason, I don't see him making a 3 for 1 deal - our depth is still very tenuous at best, and our lineup is full of injury prone players. If he makes a 3 for 1 deal, and then 2 more guys go down with injuries, well, suddenly we are short 4 or 5 players. Do we have THAT much depth?
Savard is also slowly building this team into what HE wants it to look like. Of the players on our top 4 lines, only one, Oleg Petrov, was not acquired in the last year. Its true. Gilmour, Ribeiro, Zednik. Perrault, Berezin, Petrov. Juneau, Dackell, Bulis. Kilger, Asham, Odjick, Van Allen.
That's a HUGE overhaul. Savard doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is going to acquire somebody like Zednik, and then dump him less than a year later. I think he is a more patient man than that. He is amassing the players he wants, and he will let them prove themselves in battle. He will not throw them away quickly.
So there. I went out on a limb, and I made a prediction. There will be no more major trades. Maybe some minor ones, some waiver-wire manouvering, but no big deal. The only additions will come from players coming off the injury list. This will be our team. I thought a good deal about this, and even though I could have made just as long a post saying there WOULD be trades, this is my position, and I'm sticking to it. My neck, my reputation (such as it is), my pronosticating powers, are on the line.
Whats your prediction?
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 3, 2002 13:14:40 GMT -5
A D-Man will be traded this year.There is a logjam there,Ace will try to clear it up.
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Post by Habsolutely on Feb 3, 2002 14:11:49 GMT -5
To be honest, Savard looks like a guy who's having as much fun wheeling and dealing in the NHL as we do on NHL 2002 in the playstation.
Since he took over as the Habs GM, he has done an excellent job overall and he seems to have so much fun doing it.
Getting Audette and Berezin out of nowhere is probably the biggest proof of it. While it seemed that we were going to settle for poor draft picks in return of our impending UFAs, we got natural goal scorers who helped our team getting key goals.. which result in key points in the standings.
To answer you, I really believe that if the Canadiens are in a good position around the trading deadline and that Savard sees something big that he would like to add to his team for the remainder of the regular season and possibly the post-season, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets a shot at it.
It could be Holik, could be Selanne, could be Amonte, could be Svelha, could be someone else.. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised at all.
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 3, 2002 14:18:58 GMT -5
To be honest, Savard looks like a guy who's having as much fun wheeling and dealing in the NHL as we do on NHL 2002 in the playstation. Since he took over as the Habs GM, he has done an excellent job overall and he seems to have so much fun doing it. Getting Audette and Berezin out of nowhere is probably the biggest proof of it. While it seemed that we were going to settle for poor draft picks in return of our impending UFAs, we got natural goal scorers who helped our team getting key goals.. which result in key points in the standings. To answer you, I really believe that if the Canadiens are in a good position around the trading deadline and that Savard sees something big that he would like to add to his team for the remainder of the regular season and possibly the post-season, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets a shot at it. It could be Holik, could be Selanne, could be Amonte, could be Svelha, could be someone else.. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised at all. Speaking of NHL 2002(I don't play on the PS..but on my PC)..I am first overall,with 85 points,playing with the B's. I absolutely agree on Savard trying to make another big trade before the deadline.I wouldn't be surprised at all if he goes after Selanne,the forecaster is also predicting this on their web site. |
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Post by KR on Feb 3, 2002 14:27:37 GMT -5
Bodies will continue to be moved out , but only for draft picks and to open up room on the roster for the Hainsey's, Garon's and Hossa's of the world. I think Savard has purged himself of most of Houle's mistakes. Any major acquisitions will now be made via the UFA route. Should the team finish above .500 and make the playoffs, it will go a long way toward making the team more attractive to potential free agent signees. I believe the defensive corps is in good hands for the long term with the likes of Hainsey, Markov and Komisarek and I don't foresee any big moves at that position. The free agent focus will be on a power forward.
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Post by PTH on Feb 3, 2002 19:07:59 GMT -5
I'm with you on this one - I actually posted something like this a while back...
I think another factor is just that the roster is full - a lot of Savard's early deals were getting UFAs signed or castoffs to fill up the roster and rid us of the AHLers, now that that's done, and the roster is full of legit players - those who aren't players now are projects that need ice time.
So the "easy" deals are over, and now all we'll see is Savard sell off some spare parts for other spare parts.
MPLABBE - with Selanne about to become a UFA, why would MTL want to trade for him as a rental ? We can't afford to give much to get him just to help us get to the playoffs, and SJ will probably want him for the playoffs anyhow. I just don't see us getting him before July 1st... unless SJ just wants to get rid of him for some reason.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 3, 2002 20:04:05 GMT -5
Over the years, the odds of a team winning the cup without having a superstar on the roster, have been low. The few exceptions (NJ Devils and Habs) often did it with good overall play and knock your socks off goaltending. I suspect AS is a student of history and realizes this. Last year he tried to make the big deal, in his attempt at Kovalchuk. I don't think he'll stop trying. I can see him having a go at Kariya or Lecavalier or some other guy who still has a few years left in the tank and either qualifies as a superstar right now or has the potential to get there. Having said that, I don't think he's out there actively shopping people. He's a patient guy, so he'll wait and see if Dudley tires of Vinnie or Pierre Gauthier finally decides to shrink the payroll, or someone else just runs out of patience with a player and commits to moving them. That's when trade value can be affected by emotions or by time constraints. Will a big deal happen?, I think so, and probably within the following 12 months. Unfortunately, my crystal ball broke it's seal and is now fogged up, so can't be more precise with the timing. And I'm not going to speculate on what we'll have to give up. On the bright side, the team's a heck of a lot better than it used to be and the infusion of some missing players and up and comers is going to make us pretty good regardless. That should make it easier to wait for the big trade or to develop our own star.
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 3, 2002 20:23:35 GMT -5
Bodies will continue to be moved out , but only for draft picks and to open up room on the roster for the Hainsey's, Garon's and Hossa's of the world. I think Savard has purged himself of most of Houle's mistakes. Any major acquisitions will now be made via the UFA route. Should the team finish above .500 and make the playoffs, it will go a long way toward making the team more attractive to potential free agent signees. I believe the defensive corps is in good hands for the long term with the likes of Hainsey, Markov and Komisarek and I don't foresee any big moves at that position. The free agent focus will be on a power forward. I seriously doubt Savard will start dealing away bodies for drafts picks only.That is just not his style. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 3, 2002 20:25:52 GMT -5
MPLABBE - with Selanne about to become a UFA, why would MTL want to trade for him as a rental ? We can't afford to give much to get him just to help us get to the playoffs, and SJ will probably want him for the playoffs anyhow. I just don't see us getting him before July 1st... unless SJ just wants to get rid of him for some reason. Well,with Saku around,maybe if we get Teemu,he will want to sign an extension before testing the UFA market? Don't forget,they were magic together at the Olympics in 1998. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 3, 2002 21:05:36 GMT -5
Well BC, I say not to trade.
Heck nobody thought we would be playoff contender this year! As BC said, there has been a lot of movement, let's stabilize a bit and find out where we stand, what team we can be and what's needed to go to the next level. We've shown we can be really competitive against highly competitive team (without Audette and Koivu) and yes, even against those heavy forechecking unit against whom our "too small" lineup stood no chances. So before shuffling chairs for the heck of it, trying to address issues that don't exist and risking another plunge, let the boys play it out a bit.
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Post by legaspesien on Feb 3, 2002 21:13:26 GMT -5
I state not to long ago that Petrov will be next to go so I have to stand with it...I agree with MPLABBE that a D man have to go but must say that it will be a left D we are to short on Right D to let one go Kr I am with you they have to move Body....We also have to get back that 3rd pick...Don't be surprise if they trade Hackett and offer LA future consideration for S.Fiset to act as a backup to finish the season in MTL...Anaway we won't be abbel to protect Hack in sept and he will soon be a distraction on the club because he just got bomp like we say on our job by Theo...so we stil have one or 2 trade and in those we have to get bigger...Imagine we finnish in 6th meet Caroline that almost means 2 series in playoff...that's where the money is for a Selanne,Holik,Guerin...Which ever you wish
ouf!
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Post by Ryan on Feb 3, 2002 22:41:30 GMT -5
On Selanne...I'm actually sorta expecting this guy to be in Montreal next year.
His stock is a little low right now with a couple of difficult years. Watching him in the all star game tells you his skills have not eroded, he's just being muted in the system he's playing.
There's no doubt he's leaving San Jose, and I'd have to say Montreal would be a front runner for his services. He must notice the type of team we're icing. Very fast, skill oriented, open style. Basically we play a Western Conference style of game, and San Jose plays like in the East.
If the price is right, he could be here next year, so why give up talent for him now? It's not like getting him now will get us too much further this year. This isn't a crucial year for the Habs with regards to playoffs other than just making them. No one expected that at the beginning of the season, so there should be no pressure to add a star like Selanne to go deeper.
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Post by PTH on Feb 4, 2002 0:40:55 GMT -5
MPLABBE: If Selanne wants to come here, he'll wait until July 1st. The GMs and players always scheme so everyone knows who is interested in who anyhow, so Teemu would know ahead of time MTL would want him.
Would you really want to give up Rivet, Chouinard and a 2nd for Selanne (and that's the kind of package it would take) when he might just choose to walk away ? A contendre can afford to let assets slip away to get a better chance at a Cup, but we just don't have the assets to rent players like that.
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Post by Vichab on Feb 4, 2002 2:05:55 GMT -5
I would do Rivet, Choun. and a 2nd pick at the drop of a hat for Selanne. We need the star and as seems to be agreed in this discussion Selanne still has it.
Bottom line is that AS like everyone knows that we need a star and we ain't making any move to contend till we get one. I don't see how one can predict that AS won't make a trade as you never know what gm may come a knockin. It seems to me that if a team is offerring a star, ie. Kariya, Selanne, Amonte then we have to consider Markov, Ribiero, Hossa and anyone else. My view is I'd rather take a proven star over a potential star or superstar anyday. While I'm no Yashin fan I agree with the Isles move to take a proven star and give up the potential great one (Spezza). There are to many high prospects who don't pan out to pass up on one that is proven. If a star is offerred I would hate to think AS would say no because he thinks that one of our great prospects is to much to give up. We can wait along time for these prospects to never develop and I'll go for " the star in hand for the two stars in the bush" any day.And I don't think we can rely too much on Saku (God love him) or Audette to play to their hoped potential when or if they return. While I'm proud of the way the Boys have played this year it still is not good enuf. for Nos Glorieux. I say get the star and at almost any price. AS has proven that he can get the supporting cast in pretty short order. What we need is the star.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 4, 2002 9:42:23 GMT -5
The moment of truth will come in the offseason, when Andre Savard looks down the list of forwards and sees one which is long on skill and finesse and short on size and toughness. Quite simply, he MUST do something to fix this next year either through UFA signings (Bobby Holik) or trades. Depth is nice, but with Koivu and Audette coming back next year, we need to translate some of that into some size if we expect to compete in this conference.
As far as trades are concerned I think he would definitely consider trading guys like Zednik and Bulis as part of a package deal to get some size in return. As far as Selanne is concerned, that would be nice, but I would make Bobby Holik priority #1 in the offseason.
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Post by PTH on Feb 4, 2002 10:02:25 GMT -5
I would do Rivet, Choun. and a 2nd pick at the drop of a hat for Selanne. We need the star and as seems to be agreed in this discussion Selanne still has it. . You would trade 3 assets for a 3 month rental ? We always like to think that we can keep a UFA we've acquired, but we can never assume we will. Giving up 3 assets when there's not even guaranteed of getting to the playoffs (with or without him) seems foolish to me. If we could be sure we could sign Selanne, I'd be all for giving up those 3 and more, but we can't be sure, can we ! And don't think that trade-and-sign (where the deal was contingent on the contract) happens often in the NHL - I actually don't know of a single occurence that happened during a season. Not one. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 4, 2002 15:49:01 GMT -5
I state not to long ago that Petrov will be next to go so I have to stand with it...I agree with MPLABBE that a D man have to go but must say that it will be a left D we are to short on Right D to let one go Kr I am with you they have to move Body....We also have to get back that 3rd pick...Don't be surprise if they trade Hackett and offer LA future consideration for S.Fiset to act as a backup to finish the season in MTL...Anaway we won't be abbel to protect Hack in sept and he will soon be a distraction on the club because he just got bomp like we say on our job by Theo...so we stil have one or 2 trade and in those we have to get bigger...Imagine we finnish in 6th meet Caroline that almost means 2 series in playoff...that's where the money is for a Selanne,Holik,Guerin...Which ever you wish ouf! It doesn't matter which d-man we trade,we are stacked with left and right handed shooting d-man. I don't undestand the 'protect' Jeff Hackett part? do you mean in the waiver draft before the start of each season? |
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 4, 2002 15:53:53 GMT -5
You would trade 3 assets for a 3 month rental ? We always like to think that we can keep a UFA we've acquired, but we can never assume we will. Giving up 3 assets when there's not even guaranteed of getting to the playoffs (with or without him) seems foolish to me. If we could be sure we could sign Selanne, I'd be all for giving up those 3 and more, but we can't be sure, can we ! And don't think that trade-and-sign (where the deal was contingent on the contract) happens often in the NHL - I actually don't know of a single occurence that happened during a season. Not one. PTH,I think you are GROSSLY overating Rivet and Chouinard.IMO,they are not keys to our future,and both are certainly expandable if we can get a Sellane-regardless for how many months.Losing Craig Rivet will not kill our post-season hopes and losing a Chouinard will do,well,close to nothing! The 2nd rounder would be tough to lose,but 2002 is not the greatest and deepest draft ever. |
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Post by PTH on Feb 4, 2002 20:31:36 GMT -5
PTH,I think you are GROSSLY overating Rivet and Chouinard.IMO,they are not keys to our future,and both are certainly expandable if we can get a Sellane-regardless for how many months.Losing Craig Rivet will not kill our post-season hopes and losing a Chouinard will do,well,close to nothing! The 2nd rounder would be tough to lose,but 2002 is not the greatest and deepest draft ever. I agree both are expendable, but that doesn't make me want to deal them for, well, nothing. We all want to make the playoffs this season, but we also know that it's not critical for the organisation or the team to make it. Getting Selanne for 3 months won't give us much. Rivet and Chouinard do have some value. The 2nd rounder isn't all that important, though it's one more chance for our scouts to get their hands on a player. With the team full of forwards anyhow, I don't see a big rush to add Selanne ASAP, I'd rather just try and get him this summer. Rivet might be worth a 2nd or 3d, and Chouinard might have considerable value if he develops. Big men who can skate and score have value. Even if Chouinard only becomes a Hoglund clone, Hoglund fetched the Flames Val Bure... This organisation is just too thin in assets to spend 3 for a short-term improvement only. |
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