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Post by rtravale on Oct 11, 2003 13:57:46 GMT -5
on someone like Dany Heatley?
I was just thinking this morning about Heatley and the fact that he will be out for the season and quite possibly never have the opportunity to play again.I'm sure Atlanta GM Don Waddell has thought about this.
My question is, should we, the Canadiens, make an offer to Atlanta to get Heatley? He may never play again so they might be willing to listen. Should we take a chance on a player that may never play or may become one of the most dominant players in the game?
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Post by MC Habber on Oct 11, 2003 14:49:13 GMT -5
No. If we had more assests that we could move to get Heatley, I might do it, but we have far too little, IMO, to risk a good chunk of it on someone who's future is so uncertain.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 11, 2003 14:58:25 GMT -5
I don't think Atlanta's gonna deal him and if they did, I would definitely be interested.
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Post by FormerLurker on Oct 11, 2003 15:04:04 GMT -5
There is absolutely no way that Waddell will entertain offers for Heatley this early. It's just not in the best interests of the Thrashers or of Heatley. It also sends the message that the Thrashers are not 100% supportive of Heatley, and by extension the Snyder family, who themselves have expressed complete support for Heatley.
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Post by Patty Roy on Oct 11, 2003 15:27:49 GMT -5
There is absolutely no way that Waddell will entertain offers for Heatley this early. It's just not in the best interests of the Thrashers or of Heatley. It also sends the message that the Thrashers are not 100% supportive of Heatley, and by extension the Snyder family, who themselves have expressed complete support for Heatley. Totally agree. It would have been like the Habs entertaining offers for Saku Koivu while he was battling cancer.  |
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Post by montreal on Oct 11, 2003 15:31:36 GMT -5
They expect him to play this year. If not he plays next year.
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Post by Patty Roy on Oct 11, 2003 15:33:59 GMT -5
They expect him to play this year. If not he plays next year. Huh? Heatley, this year? I thought i heard that he had 9-12 months of rehab ahead of him? |
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Post by Habsolution on Oct 11, 2003 15:38:44 GMT -5
Huh? Heatley, this year? I thought i heard that he had 9-12 months of rehab ahead of him? And that's if he's not sentenced to 1+ year of jail time. I'd be EXTREMLY surprised to see him play a game in the 03-04 season. It's even less likely than Koivu playing a game two years ago IMO. ACL, MCL and menisc ? Accused of felony ? And I'm not even talking about how bad he must feel about the death of his teamate. It would still be a nice accomplishment if he was to play next season. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 11, 2003 16:17:59 GMT -5
Totally agree. It would have been like the Habs entertaining offers for Saku Koivu while he was battling cancer. Right on Patty! While we're on it lets make an offer for Rush Limbaugh to replace Dino Cisto. He's in rehab so his $ value is down. This is definately not the time! |
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 11, 2003 16:27:53 GMT -5
Huh? Heatley, this year? I thought i heard that he had 9-12 months of rehab ahead of him? I think Dan meant by the end of the season he could play. |
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Post by habwest on Oct 11, 2003 16:39:00 GMT -5
I beg to differ that Heatley's situation is comparable to Koivu's when he had cancer. The former is the cause of criminal stupidity or just plain old stupidity depending on what a jury decides. Regardless, he is directly responsible for someone's death something he will be, and should be, branded with for the rest of his life. He brought it on himself and killed his buddy to boot.
Koivu's situation was not the result of any of his doing and to say that the two situations are comparible is I think an insult to Koivu.
As to trading for Heatley, I wouldn't make any offer until the jury results are in. Even if Atlanta were interested now the asking price would likely be pretty high and I wouldn't be prepared to risk a quality player/prospect or more and/or high picks on an asset that just might not be available. This team has enough problems w/o taking these kinds of speculative high risk chances.
Good grief the Habs already have Theo and his mess, why add another mess? All of a sudden the Habs want to be know as a criminally challeneged team or something?
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Post by Habsolution on Oct 11, 2003 16:51:48 GMT -5
I beg to differ that Heatley's situation is comparable to Koivu's when he had cancer. The former is the cause of criminal stupidity or just plain old stupidity depending on what a jury decides. Regardless, he is directly responsible for someone's death something he will be, and should be, branded with for the rest of his life. He brought it on himself and killed his buddy to boot. So harsh ! If Dan Snyder's father forgave Heatley and said jail time wouldn't achieve anything then I'm sure we can all find the way to forgive him for that too. What he did was very very stupid but if we are to brand every 23 year old kid that went above the speed limit well ... |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 11, 2003 17:02:31 GMT -5
I'm with HabWest on this one. Life can be very harsh. So be it. Some lessons are much harder than others to learn. Dealing with the consequences of one's actions can be a real female dog.
Heatley is very fortunate that Snyder's family is apparently so big-hearted. Hopefully he emerges a wiser and more mature person after he's paid the price for his actions, irregardless of whether he ever plays NHL hockey again.
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Post by Habit on Oct 11, 2003 17:40:12 GMT -5
Audette's best year was with Atlanta. Wonder if they would like hime back for a 4th rounder?
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Post by FormerLurker on Oct 11, 2003 18:43:51 GMT -5
I'm with HabWest on this one. I'm in complete disagreement. I believe that in many jurisdictions, the criminal justice system is too harsh when an accident ends in tragedy and far too lenient when it doesn't. Dany Heatley was driving recklessly. That was his criminal act. His reckless driving, plus an additional set of conditions, some possibly outside Heatley's control, caused him to lose control of his car and crash into a wall. Suppose it had been an open field instead of a wall? The crash, plus an additional set of conditions, possibly outside Heatley's control (e.g. faulty or unused seat belt?) caused Snyder to be ejected from the car head first into the wall, which ultimately caused his death. I believe that Heatley's punishment should not be influenced by Snyder's death. Indeed, I believe that it should not even be influenced by the crash. There were too many intervening conditions outside Heatley's control between the initial criminal act of reckless driving and the unfortunate death of Snyder. This is not to say that Heatley should not be dealt with harshly. All reckless drivers, the lucky and unlucky, should be dealt with harshly and evenly. If we wait for tragic consequences before meting out harsh justice, more people will continue to take risks, and we'll see a higher rate of tragic consequences. |
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Post by habwest on Oct 11, 2003 21:20:08 GMT -5
Heatley's criminal act was driving recklessly AND killing somebody as a direct consequence. That's why it's a homicide charge. The logic of 'He didn't mean to do it' already is reflected in the charge, o/w it would be a more serious charge carrying a more serious penalty, like 25 years to life. Also, regardless of whether he meant to do it or not he in fact was directly responsible. That's what counts in the law. Can you imagine someone holding up a convenience store and shooting a patron while shooting it out with the police and saying 'he didn't mean to do it' ? That approach wouldn't cut it in that case and doesn't cut it in this case. The guy is charged as appropriate under the law for the result of his actions. The fact is Heatley did it and should be held accountable. Simple. Personally I don't really care about Heatley's intent, whether he feels sorry or not, whether it was 'tragic', whether the guy's parents forgive him or any other of these 'huggy feely' arguments. He got a guy killed and it was 100% Healey's fault plain and simple. If he ends up in jail, tough. He will have deserved it. If he doesn't he will be darned lucky. For me, all this 'foregiveness' stuff is just an excuse for not making tough decisions. Or else putting hockey over real life which doesn't make sense to me. If somebody did that to your kid how would you feel, honestly? Me, I'd be ready to pull the lever to hang the guy. Or if a hood shot your kid and said 'he didn't mean to do it'. Would you forgive him and give him a big hug? Think about it.  |
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Post by montreal on Oct 11, 2003 21:28:54 GMT -5
I think Dan meant by the end of the season he could play. No I meant that the Thrashers GM said they expect Heatly in the lineup this season. I have no idea if he will or not I have no opinion, just that I watched the Thrashers game, and that's what I heard. |
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Post by Disp on Oct 11, 2003 22:18:22 GMT -5
Heatley's criminal act was driving recklessly AND killing somebody as a direct consequence. That's why it's a homicide charge. The logic of 'He didn't mean to do it' already is reflected in the charge, o/w it would be a more serious charge carrying a more serious penalty, like 25 years to life. Also, regardless of whether he meant to do it or not he in fact was directly responsible. That's what counts in the law. Can you imagine someone holding up a convenience store and shooting a patron while shooting it out with the police and saying 'he didn't mean to do it' ? That approach wouldn't cut it in that case and doesn't cut it in this case. The guy is charged as appropriate under the law for the result of his actions. The fact is Heatley did it and should be held accountable. Simple. Personally I don't really care about Heatley's intent, whether he feels sorry or not, whether it was 'tragic', whether the guy's parents forgive him or any other of these 'huggy feely' arguments. He got a guy killed and it was 100% Healey's fault plain and simple. If he ends up in jail, tough. He will have deserved it. If he doesn't he will be darned lucky. For me, all this 'foregiveness' stuff is just an excuse for not making tough decisions. Or else putting hockey over real life which doesn't make sense to me. If somebody did that to your kid how would you feel, honestly? Me, I'd be ready to pull the lever to hang the guy. Or if a hood shot your kid and said 'he didn't mean to do it'. Would you forgive him and give him a big hug? Think about it. I don't know about that. Comparing shooting at someone and speeding is not the same thing. Its a whole different level of intent. Not even close. How many of us have sped with a passenger in the car? Granted 130 in a 45 zone is excessive, but I'm pretty sure Heatley wasn't holding a gun to Snyders head. |
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Post by cigarviper on Oct 11, 2003 22:24:21 GMT -5
I think the subject matter of this thread is in extremely poor taste. Can't you guys find something more enlightening and enriching to talk about?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 11, 2003 22:30:34 GMT -5
Cigarviper is right guys.
The original question is, would the Habs entertain making a pitch for Heatley. I'm asking that everyone try to stick to that. Thanks.
The thread has deteriorated into what is being discussed on the Non-Habs Hockey board. If we, the moderators, have to, we'll move the thread to that forum.
And, no, I wouldn't make a pitch for Dan Heatley. The timing is wrong IMHO.
Thanks fellahs.
Cheers.
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Post by Disp on Oct 11, 2003 22:52:54 GMT -5
Sure, and no I wouldn't make a pitch for Heatley.
We are too far away from contending status to decimate our prospect depth for what Heatley would cost.
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Post by habwest on Oct 11, 2003 23:15:44 GMT -5
Da da da dum.....the dreaded moderators have spoken....Boy, folks are squeemish but gotta admit the debate, while an important one, is off topic, ie off hockey and not what the original post raised.
As to the substance of the latter already made my point, ie don't make a highly speculative and risky move which in all likelihood would involve a significant amount of our relatively small supply of good young talent for a possible no return. No ethical or moral judgement here, just an assessment of profit/loss and risk when it comes to the acquisition of talent. I really don't think that the Flames would be interested in taking older vets in exchange. I dunno, how does Koivu and Markov and some #1 picks sound? Or Komi, Markov and Koivu? I don't even think that would do it.
By the way, in this sense Healey's possible conviction is relevant, ie would he be 'available' if a trade were in fact made. Which is why my position is to wait. If it's a not guilty verdict then by all means make a pitch tho I very much doubt if he would be available.
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Post by Cranky on Oct 11, 2003 23:57:09 GMT -5
Da da da dum.....the dreaded moderators have spoken....Boy, folks are squeemish but gotta admit the debate, while an important one, is off topic, ie off hockey and not what the original post raised. Those damn, evil mods again! Yes, I would make the deal if it appearswe are stealing him. A year in jail will not destroy his skill. Mind you, his injuries are major and could set back his speed and flexibility. Yes, I am an evil scavanger that will take advantage of others. (BTW, I have some Enron stock that I am letting go at phenominal prices!) |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 12, 2003 5:14:41 GMT -5
Pass.
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Post by Goldthorpe on Oct 12, 2003 17:56:46 GMT -5
I doubt Heatley will do jail time. Not because he will receive the superstar treatment, but simply because he's still a kid, and sometimes kids make stupid mistakes.
From what I heard, he is considered a very good and nice person by everybody around the league. I wouldn't like to be in his shoes right now or feel his remorses. This event will SURELY change his live forever, and I don't see the point in putting him in jail. For what purpose? I doubt he is a menace to society. I doubt he haven't already "learned his lesson". I think that's what the judge will see too.
My bet? I see Heatley being sentenced for a LOT of community work, plus maybe a large fine to be given to some charity.
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