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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2002 12:48:36 GMT -5
Today,Bouillon will play his 10th game,which means he will have to go through waivers if we send him down.
Brisebois,Traverse and Souray will soon be back from injury.Add the 5 other guys and Hainsey who will be ready sooner rather than later.
What does this mean? 2 AND maybe 3 d-man will have to go.
Thoughts?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 27, 2002 17:28:39 GMT -5
Welcome, Marc. Let's see....Bouillon, Robidas, Dykhuis, Brisebois, Traverse, Souray, Markov, Rivet, Quintal and now Hainsey. There's no reason to call up Hainsey unless you're going to play him. Brisebois can't go anywhere, Hainsey is out of the question, leaving 8 defensemen.
Savard would want to have 7 defensemen at least to allow for injuries, leaving (once everyone is back) 3 odd men out. Very curious, the call-up. Savage's deal was in the works before his injury, so is it possible there was one on the table for Souray or Traverse, 2 other d-men who were injured at innoportune times? Jeff Hackett hasn't been getting any playing time, Tarasov is either ready or nearly ready. This is conspiracy theory time!
The numbers with the big team are clearly unworkable and a trade would settle the logjam. Let's hope it's more of an impact player we're getting, if indeed something is pending.
PS, hope Markov stays. I'd hate to lose that kid.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2002 18:08:44 GMT -5
Does this mean a trade is in the works or what??? this could be a logical theory:Habs want to see if Ron is ready to take a regular shift in a playoff race.IF he is,they can deal a Souray or a Rivet or a Robidas along with a Hackett for that big winger or center we really need.If he isn't,they don't make a trade.
So in other words,Hainsey IS gonna decide if a trade will happen or not.We should not bet against him,this kid is a major talent who was doing very well in Quebec.
As for Markov,I can't even believe you mentionned losing him.This kid has improved defensively(today,on one shift,he made about 3 glorious defensive plays) and is doing very well offensively(he had another point today,which gives him about 16 in 30 games.Excellent numbers for a guy who has been a healthy scratch alot).Once Therrien has total faith in him,he will just explode offensively.Our PP is in good hands with Markov,Brisebois and Hainsey at the points.Let's not trade Markov.
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Post by Vichab on Jan 27, 2002 19:02:07 GMT -5
Keeping Frankie up for today's game means a trade is definitely coming. If not, wouldn't the obvious move have been to send Frankie down and bring up Hainsey before frankie plays the tenth came thus exposing him to waivers if he is sent back down. It may be that AS doesn't think anyone would take Frankie but that's pretty risky. Even without Hainsey they are going to have too many Dmen so at least one is going.
I agree that Markov is an untouchable at this stage given his offensive potential. All the other D with the exception of Brisebois (who's not going anywhere) are the same, each with there weaknesses and none with allstar or offensive potential. Markov has tremendous upside. I don't have any great feelings for any of the others although i once thought Rivet was going to very good but this season has been hard to watch him. But given the "A" on his shirt and hoping it's just an off year AS may want to hang on to him.Then again other teams may see his potential and want him. I think much of the trade will be who the other team wants from us. Let's hope AS doesn't give in on Markov unless the return is very sweet.
If it is a package deal I don't think Hackett will be in on it. If something happens to Theo I still have confidence in Hack. After last fall Garon worries me if we're in a playoff run. Tarasov is way too risky to rely on given his inexperience.We need a reliable back up. Unless we are getting one back in return ( which is usually the case when goalies are traded) I think we hang on to Hack until Garon or Tarasov proves themselves and Hack improves his trade value which I don't think is very high right now.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2002 19:10:09 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Markov an untouchable.(hey,if another team wants him as part of a package to get a young power forward or a big center,I would deal him,I wonder if Boston would deal that Thornton guy to get a PP QB  ),but he is certainly a guy we should keep.He has tremendous offensive potential,as you said,and adding a guy like Berezin who was born in the same city as Markov will probably help him adjust to North American life even more. As for Rivet,he is,in IMHO,the guy with the most value among our tradeable d-man.He is 27,shoots right,has been good offensively this year and a team looking for a solid 6th d-man(Toronto?) may want a guy like him.He has strong leadership skills too.And we can compensate his loss with our right-handed shooting defence depth. As for the goaltending situation.I dunno if Hackett,right now is a better goalie than Garon.I really am worried about Hack's NHL future.He seems to have lost that 'split second' and will probably need to play a ton to re-gain it.Garon has been great for the Cits for the past 6 weeks and is probably ready to be an NHL goalie.I mean,this is his 4th year in the AHL.Tarasov still needs time in the AHL.He hasn't played all that much with that groin injury.IF we were to deal Hackett,I would try to pick up a guy like Jamie McClennan who could probably be had for peanuts,because Minny already has Roloson and Fernandez in the NHL. |
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Post by Vichab on Jan 27, 2002 19:36:59 GMT -5
I didn't know about the Markov-Berezin connection. I like it-probably good for both of them.
I think our discussion confirms one thing and that is AS has assembled a team with depth giving him some options on trading. No doubt we can spare a few Dmen and I think we could afford to give up some forwards most of whom are replaceable. Accepting your analysis of Garon and I know Michel Bergeron is very high on Garon we could give another gm options at every position. All I want in return is the very good player who would be on our first line. I've said it before and i'll say it again we are not taking that next step until we get that very good if not superstar player. I think AS has put us in a position to try and do that now without doing the UFA. Let's hope he can do it!
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2002 19:49:02 GMT -5
I didn't know about the Markov-Berezin connection. I like it-probably good for both of them. I think our discussion confirms one thing and that is AS has assembled a team with depth giving him some options on trading. No doubt we can spare a few Dmen and I think we could afford to give up some forwards most of whom are replaceable. Accepting your analysis of Garon and I know Michel Bergeron is very high on Garon we could give another gm options at every position. All I want in return is the very good player who would be on our first line. I've said it before and i'll say it again we are not taking that next step until we get that very good if not superstar player. I think AS has put us in a position to try and do that now without doing the UFA. Let's hope he can do it! I want to add this to the mix,IF another team is very interested in Garon and is ready to give us the player you are talking about in return,I would definitely make the deal.At HF.com,alot of people had thought about a Garon for Patrik Stefan deal.Stefan was playing better about 2-3 weeks ago,but has gone stone cold recently.I dunno if ATL would want to make such a deal,but I would consider it. As for Markov-Berezin,both are from the city of Voskrensek or something.They probably never played against each other because there is almost a 10 year difference between them. |
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Post by habwest on Jan 27, 2002 20:38:59 GMT -5
I agree with the general consensus that something is at least potentially in the works, ie if Hainsey shows that he is ready Savard will try and deal. I too had a gut feel that something was pretty close to happening when Souray and Traverse got hurt.
Traverse has now been cleared to play so that leaves "only" Souray and Brisebois on the shelf, with I gather from comments above due back soon. Birsebois' return I haven't heard anything on although I believe that he was put on the injury list so that indicates something a bit longer than day to day.
Defecemen on the Habs roster:
Brisebois(Right hand shot/Right side)
Rivet(R)
Quintal(R)
Robidas(R)
Bouillon(R)
Dykhuis(L)
Souray(L)
Traverse(L)
Markov(L)
Hainsey(L)
Defencemen Candidates with the Cits
Descoteaux(L)
Jarventie(L)
Razin(L)
Comments:
1)I expect Brisebois and Dykhuis to stay. Dykhuis may surprise some but he is a defencemen leading, and a team leading, +12. Further Bad Co's point that Savard rewards loyalty is pertinent here.Of course the next best +/- players are Asham +7 and Poulin +5 so it makes you wonder.
2)I think Quintal stays-loyalty, no market, improved his +/- to -3. Rivet I have no clear picture on, only to note that he's -2, 4th best of dmen.
3)Bouillon and Robidas. I can't see both on this team in two years. Right now Robidas is a club worst -19 (Ribiero is next at -10, hmm) and as whoever stays should be a 7th, I'd go with Bouillon- great heart. Seeing either/both of these guys going wouldn't surprise if a taker can be found but that would be a surprise.
4)Souray, Traverse, were both being showcased IMO. Either/both going in one or more deals wouldn't surprise.
5)Hainsey is untouchable, Markov could go if the return was high enough-I want him to stay but Savard did offer him to Atlanta for the #1 pick.
6)I expect teams looking for that missing piece to be looking for an established offensive dman who they know won't be a defensive liability or a good, solid defensive dman. From this perspective I'd expect them to be looking at Brisebois (not available), Dykhuis (only for a goodly price), Souray(assuming he plays well on return most likely to be gone), Traverse(only if he plays very well and Savard sweet talks), Rivet (ditto), Hainsey(not available). Markov (only for a big price) would be most likely to go to a contender soon, else to a non-contender especially if the Habs are in it later and depending on what else happens, eg Hainsey, Souray etc.
Hacket I expect to see stay as long as we're in the race, although if Savard can swing something at low cost for an experienced backup he might go for the right price.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2002 21:14:40 GMT -5
Bouillon isn't a right-handed shot.He is a left-handed shot.
Overall,I agree with what you said.
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Post by Vichab on Jan 27, 2002 21:52:39 GMT -5
It seems to me we're looking at Robidas or frankie and Traverse or Souray. I thought Traverse was playing the best hockey of his career ( not saying much) before his injury and Souray has been a disappointment in all aspects. I'm not too particular about any of them but i agree about Frankie's heart. It does sound ironic that we should feel any loyalty for Q when he chased the $ a few years ago but your probably right about AS.
Prob with all of the above is that we are only offerring at best a 4th Dman to most teams which won't land us a very good player inreturn. Rivet probably has the best credentials notwithstanding his recent play. Maybe Garon is the ticket for another team although it would be one building for the future. Now that Savage is gone I don't know who we throw in that will get another team to give up a player of the calibre we need.
Off topic i heard on After 40 Mins. last night that the Berezin deal calls for us giving PHX a 2,3,and 4 round choice if Savage doesn't sign with PHX. Is that true? It doesn't make any sense. It would mean that we might be giving up Savage for nothing and trading a 2,3,and 4th for Berezin. I don't see it. Does anyone know what the actual deal was?
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2002 16:05:53 GMT -5
Off topic i heard on After 40 Mins. last night that the Berezin deal calls for us giving PHX a 2,3,and 4 round choice if Savage doesn't sign with PHX. Is that true? It doesn't make any sense. It would mean that we might be giving up Savage for nothing and trading a 2,3,and 4th for Berezin. I don't see it. Does anyone know what the actual deal was? No one seems to know.I highly doubt AS gave up that much. |
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Post by habwest on Jan 29, 2002 0:58:20 GMT -5
MPL- thanks for the correction. I was using NHL.com as a source but I'd rather rely on you. Should pay more attention shouldn't I.
Vichab- yea that does look like an awful lot and like MPL I don't think that Savard would do that either.
I did read something on TSN which said:
3rd as part of the deal
If Savage doesn't sign with Phoenix they get another pick.
If Berezin signs with Montreal (he's an RFA) Phoenix gets another pick.
No specific numbers were mentioned. So worst case scenario, according to this, would be Savage, a 3rd and 2 other picks for Berezin. If this proves to be the case I thought that they would be lower round picks. Savage, a 2nd, 3rd and 4th for Berezin would be way too much IMO and I'd have to reconsider my opinion of Savard if this proves to be the case. But I'll have to see the evidence before I believe it.
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Post by PTH on Jan 29, 2002 8:20:47 GMT -5
Huh, guys, I think you're all reading FARRRRRRR too much into all of this Bouillon/Hainsey business. I think the GM wanted to send down Frankie, the coach talked him out of it, nothing more than that. If playing Bouillon one more game meant that AS would be forced to do a trade, no way he would have given in to Therrien, right ? If he gave in, it's because it's not a huge risk - that Bouillon gets taken off waivers or not isn't going to hurt this team all that much. And AS probably knows if it's at all likely that anyone takes him. While I agree that a trade involving our D remains possible, I don't see it as any more likely now than 2 weeks ago. Bouillon has been pretty good, but he hasn't exactly been so hot as to make himself indispensable, and at his size you have to be indispensable to stay in the bigs... especially on a team with some depth on D. I think we're more likely to see Robidas or Bouillon just go on waivers than anything else, if we really have to make room on the big league roster. Even then, this depends on everyone being healthy at the same time, something that doesn't exactly happen often, when you think about it. Let's not get carried away assuming that little everyday moves are signs of some big trade. (Now, as soon as I post this, you'll see a mega-deal involving 3 of our D or something...  ) |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 29, 2002 9:07:32 GMT -5
If Savage doesn't sign with Phoenix they get another pick. If Berezin signs with Montreal (he's an RFA) Phoenix gets another pick. No specific numbers were mentioned. So worst case scenario, according to this, would be Savage, a 3rd and 2 other picks for Berezin. If this proves to be the case I thought that they would be lower round picks. Savage, a 2nd, 3rd and 4th for Berezin would be way too much IMO and I'd have to reconsider my opinion of Savard if this proves to be the case. But I'll have to see the evidence before I believe it. I think this "other pick if Savage doesn't sign with Phoenix" is the compensation pick the league awards teams for losing a free agent. Few people understand the rules behind these compensation picks, but they can be as high as a 2nd rounder, or as low as nothing. We, for example, got a 4th rounder for Shayne Corson. So the three picks would be a 3rd from us this year (their option, I know, but I can't see them putting it off until next year), another pick next year (2003), say a 4th from us if we resign Berezin, and a pick from the league, which could be as high as a 2nd (but won't be) if Savage goes elsewhere. We give up UFA Savage, a 3rd in 2002 and a 4th in 2003 for a signed Berezin. Phoenix gets Savage for three monthes, Montreal's 3rd in 2002, Montreal's 4th in 2003 (or the futures, whatever they are) and a compensation pick from the league in 2003 (probably another 4th). That would be my understanding of it anyways. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 29, 2002 17:47:58 GMT -5
ON the topic of PHX-MTL trades...does anyone know who we will give up as the futures of the Juneau deal?
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),but he is certainly a guy we should keep.He has tremendous offensive potential,as you said,and adding a guy like Berezin who was born in the same city as Markov will probably help him adjust to North American life even more.
)