Trade Done: Salvage value is Sergei Berezin

[Cranky]

Brian Savage and a 3rd round choice was traded today for Sergei Berezin. This was reported in RDS.

Berezin is a speedy winger with good vision and decent shot. I have watched him a fair bit and the big knock on this guy is that he is selfish. He tries to go through the whole team by himself. Actually, once in a while he succeds in doing it. He actually played on Perreaults line.

He is small and plays that way. 5'10" and 195 lbs.

My take on this is that he is a good return for Brian. I was afraid that we would not get anything more then a 3rd rounder for him. Berezin is 30 years old.

He scored 37 goals a few years ago. This guy is a sniper. Selfish, but still a sniper. Hab's chances just got better for the playoffs.

Is there anyone left out there that doubts Andre Savards capabilities?.........just wondering

Here is a report. I do not know the source at this time.

---------------------------------------------------------------


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Friday, January 25, 2002

SCOTTSDALE, ARIZONA -- Phoenix Coyotes General Manager Michael Barnett announced today that the Coyotes have acquired left wing Brian Savage, a 3rd round draft choice in the 2002 or 2003 NHL Entry Draft (to be determined by the Coyotes) and future considerations from Montreal in exchange for left wing Sergei Berezin.

The 6-foot-1, 194-pound Savage has collected 14-15-29 and 30 PIM in 47 games with Montreal this season, leading the Canadiens in power play goals (7) and ranking 3rd in goals. Savage also ranked 2nd on the team in points, power play points (7-7-14), shots (117) and ice time among forwards (18:11). This season, Savage served as one of Montreal's three alternate captains.

In his 9th NHL season, the 30-year-old forward has played his entire career with the Montreal organization, registering 155-130-285 and 225 PIM in 461 games with the Canadiens. Savage has also compiled 47 power play goals and 25 game winners throughout his NHL career.

The Sudbury, Ontario native has had four 20-goal seasons and three 40-point seasons in his career. His best season came in 1996-97 when he set career highs in assists (37) and points (60) in 81 games. Savage's career high for goals in a season came in 1997-98 when he scored 26. Last season, Savage tallied 21-24-45 and 26 PIM in 62 games and set a career high with 12 power play goals. He also finished 3rd among Canadiens forwards in ice time (18:50) last year.

In his only season with the Coyotes, Berezin recorded 7-9-16 and 4 PIM in 41 games. The Coyotes acquired the 5-foot-10, 193-pound Berezin in a trade with Toronto for Mikael Renberg on June 22, 2001.

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CO killed my mouse (ratacide?) so I can't cut and paste, so here is a link with his stats.

www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=11376

[WhyteKnight63]

Looks like 2 teams traded their problem players... What I hate is losing the pick with Savage. Oh well, at least Berezin is an upgrade on Savage's offense, though he makes Savage look like a goon when you compare PIMs and hits...

One concern that comes back is that we did not get bigger/tougher, but hey, not a bad trade considering Savage was UFA...

[Gord]

I absolutely hate this deal..  Losing Savage is bad enough, but to lose a third rounder as well for an underachieving, puck-hogging soft Russian is mortifying.  Savage was a leader, a great talent, and very dedicated to this team.  This makes me think of the Weinrich for Traverse deal, which was pulled much too soon.  Savage's value would have been much higher later in the year, when teams were looking to make a playoff run.

Berezin is the same age, makes the same money (currently), and will not carry this team into the playoffs.  I would much rather have taken my chances waiting till the trade deadline to see if we could have gotten a better return.  Or, better yet, signed Savage to a more reasonable contract than 5 bills before the season was out..  Savage liked being a Montreal Canadien, and was proud to wear that sweater.  Somehow, I think Berezin probably couldn't care less.

[Cranky]

I am just wondering what happened a few days ago. Remember, Brian came out and said something to the effect that he was "forced" to play.

That statemant should NEVER come out of a players mouth, even worse if it comes out from a "leader".

Did that percipitate the trade? Was Brian poisining the Hab's dressing room? Was he causing problems to the coach? Where his shorts on to tight?  <br>
These and many more questions remain unaswered. One problem for another. However, the deal is done.  

Do we really have a "sniper" on the Hab's roster? At least this guy can put them in.

I have a huge concern though. If Therrien puts Berezin and Petrov on the same line, will their speed confuse the opposition or will Therrien get dizzy?

[SC_Habs_Fan]

Not bad all things considered. Savard always stated that he prefers players that can play right away rather than draft choices in this type of situation, and Berezin can play. It's also my understanding that the latter is under contract for next season. By all accounts, this year does not appear to be a great draft year, so the 3rd rounder is not excessive. Considering Savage was going the free agency route anyway, I consider it an even trade. Thoughts?

[Doc Holliday]

Perreault...Berezin...

Yikes!  

I can't say I am thrilled by this acquisition, considering the HABS were already too small and soft up front but Berezin is a goal scorer (we needed that too) that did what Savage has only shown "potential" of doing for 10 years, be it score 30.  All in all if you're gonna have a soft streaky goal scorer in your lineup I think you're better off with Berezin.  And Savvy is a UFA...

Considering how most were hinting towards Savage having no trade value, I think Savard got a good return.

[BadCompany]

Not a bad deal, but not a particularily great deal. What is though, exactly, is an Andre Savard deal.

Savard's modus operandi is pretty darn clear now.

• Don't want to negotiate in good faith? You're gone. Sooner rather than later. See Weinrich, Rucinsky and Savage as examples. You want to sign? You will be handsomely rewarded. See Brisebois, Darby, Dykhuis. No screwing around with this guy. There will be no Shayne Corson's on Andre Savard's watch.
• A player will come back, somebody who can step into the lineup right away. Savard has yet to acquire a prospect. Not one. Kilger, Traverse, Zednik, Bulis, Van Allen and now Berezin. They all step into the lineup right away.
• He threw a pick in. For a guy who is supposedly such a wiz with draft picks, he certainly likes throwing them into deals. Odjick for Stock AND a 6th. Quintal for a 4th. Dackell for an 8th. The 2nd in the Linden deal. Now an extra 3rd for Berezin. He just kind of throws them in there.

Its an all right deal, probably what we should have been expecting, but there are just as many reasons to not like it as there are to like it. Berezin is fast, very fast, and he can be an exciting player to watch at times. He can also be a frustrating player to watch, too, cause he won't pass the puck. Savage was an UFA, but Berezin is a RFA, and he will need at least a 10% raise on his current $2.9 million salary, as per the collective bargaining agreement. So while he may end up being cheaper than Savage, he isn't going to be a lot cheaper. Savage is soft, so is Berezin. Savage isn't great defensively, neither is Berezin.

They really are very similar players. Doesn't address any needs we have, and indeed it may block some of our prospects (another Andre Savard trademark, seemingly). We aren't bigger, we aren't younger, we aren't stronger, we aren't more defensively aware, we don't have brighter prospects for the future, and we aren't even all that much faster. But it keeps us competitve for this season. We aren't a weaker team today, and for an impending UFA who goes 20 games at a stretch without scoring, who has one career playoff goal, and who wasn't doing any negotiating with the team's GM, we did all right. Indeed, Berezin played with Yanic Perrault in the past, and they had good chemistry together, so that is something that might be tried again soon here.

We are getting ridiculously small though.

Sad to see Brian go, but after Red Fisher's $5 million claim - which by the way, was denied by Savage's camp - it was only a matter of time. Chalk it up to another player run out of town by the media.

[Johnny Verdun]

I agree that it's not all bad.   Short and sweet:

Savage wanted too much dough.  He's not that productive a player, even when he has the linemates and pp time.  

Berezin creates more chances with his speed.  He is not physical but neither (mostly) was Savage.

Savard was determined to get a player back.  He got one. He got one who might just really get going playing with Perreault.  Also, he got a player who helps fill the whole left by Audette's injury, Koivu's illness and now (obviously) Savage's departure.  The third rounder bugs me but I'll get used to it.  If all we'd gotten back was a  late second round pick (55th overall or something) it wouldn't have looked that good.  Another way to look at it is this: if you could have Savage for one more year at less than 3 million dollars, and THEN decide how to proceed based on how the kids are doing, wouldn't that be ideal?  Well, that's what we got, except it's Berezin indstead, which is okay by me because he compares favorably with Savage (sorry Brian).

Savage was not, no matter what anyone says, a leader on the club or a tremendous talent.  He never made people around him better.  He almost never created his own chances. He almost never got the guys fired up by taking the body or digging it out from the corner.   I think Savard made another decent play, and perhaps a very good one.  We have to bear in mind that nobody that he has identified and gotten has stunk the joint out.  Not Juneau, not Zednik, not Kilger, not Bulis, not Gilmour, not Audette and not Quintal.  Nobody has been a real bust and I'll be surprised if Berezin is the streak breaker.  

[Doc Holliday]

In Savage case, I think he ran himself out of town.  No matter what Fisher wrote, Kelly turned away from Savard's offer and never came back (according to Savard) to the table.

Savage had every opportunity this year to become a leader on the team with a good 3yrs contract in hand, getting paid like the 30 goal scorer that he isn't.  But he's been hinting towards trying free agency ever since this summer and never picked up the leader role the team wanted him to.

You can bet your lunch money that you're gonna see Savage in a Maple Leaf uniform next year.

[habwest]

To answer one question above, TSN reports that Berezin is a Restricted Free Agent at the end of this year. TSN also says that if Phoenix fails to resign Savage they will get a compensatory pick, also if Montreal signs Berezin they will get a further draft pick. They then say that the worst case for Phoenix is that they end up with 2 or 3 picks for Berezin.

So I take this report to mean:

Phenix signs Savage, Habs sign Berezin = 2 picks to Phoenix
Phoenix doesn't sign Savage, Habs sign Berezin = 3 picks to the Coyotes

Phoenix signs Savage, Habs don't sign Berezin = 1 pick to Phoenix

Phoenix doesn't sign Savage, Habs don't sign Berezin = 2 picks to 'Yotes.

How the future considerations fit in with this is unclear; I assume that what TSN outlined are the future considerations.

Also a comment on Berezin being "soft". I think it's habaroni and chees who notes that Berezin "can't be intimidated". From my perspective, I wouldn't call a plyer soft because he doesn't rack up penalty minutes and doesn't make a lot of hits. For example Beliveau after the first couple of years didn't rack up the minutes but no one called him soft.

THe key to me is whether or not Berezin is willing to take the punishment to make a play, either making a pass, taking a shot, a defensive play or whatever. If he is not willing to do this then I'd agree that he's soft. Otherwise I think that it's an unwarranted, unfair and misleading appelation. I really don't know one way or the other as I've never really paid attention the odd time this guy was on the tube. I just think that we ought to establish realistic criteria for calling someone soft and I don't think that low PIM and hit totals automatically mean a guy is soft.

As far as the trade itself I realy don't know anything about Berezin except his stats so my comments aren't particularly well informed, but, what the hey, I've never let that stop me before so here goes:

1)I've said this before but I'll repeat it: I don't think that Savage was all that keen on staying with the Habs. One strike in Savard's mind:

2)THe fact that the Savage camp never moved to put the Fisher $5M rumour to rest did not impress Mr Savard- Strike two;

3)The fact that Savage never really has delivered on his "promise" and flopped again big time this year was strike three. Savard makes up his mind to trade. Conclusion, I don't believe that resigning Saage was ever a real possibility in Savard's mind, maybe even before he made his $3M offer. That may have just been done to set up the trade scenario;

4)which leaves the timing and return questions which I guess I'll have to deal with in a Part II- oh jeeez, here he goes again.

[habmeister]

To me this deal was  a steal for the habs.  I'm not big on many russians but berezin is one of them.  Even if he doesn't pan out to be a great player, losing picks in the 3rd, 5th, 7th or whatever rounds amounts to very little risk on our part.  Let's face it most players taken past the first two rounds rarely make an impact in the league.

Please don't bring up robitaille etc...i do realize that some late picks can bring a diamond in the rough but the odds are that they bring you a guy who doesn't go anywhere.

You can bet that savard has a plan in his mind and as far as i can see i agree 100% with what he is doing.  No GM has a batting average above .750 or .800, so you have to expect to flat out lose 50% of the trades if you're an average GM.  I think our man is batting at least .700 and is in the upper echelon.

You can also bet that if he feels that we need draft picks he could easily deal a garon for a 1st or a couple of picks.  He's leaving us a lot of options, getting quality nhl players in return for UFA's, Bums, Hasbeens etc...

Stay the course Andre, no matter what some of the naysayers are ranting about.

I can honestly see Berezin thriving with the speedy petrov and ending up with 20+ goals by seasons end.  Not bad to get him in exchange for a guy who plays great in October and is average from November - June.


Habaroni and cheese says you da man!

[Cranky]

Another article,

---------------------------------------------------------


MONTREAL (CP)

— The Montreal Canadiens traded left-winger Brian Savage to the Phoenix Coyotes on Friday in exchange for left-winger Sergei Berezin, a third-round draft pick in the 2002 or 2003 entry draft and future considerations.
The six-foot-one, 194-pound Savage has 14 goals and 15 assists with 30 penalty minutes in 47 games this season. He also led the Canadiens in power-play goals with seven and was second on the team in point production.
Berezin, a former Toronto Maple Leaf, has seven goals and nine assists in 41 games this season.
“We are very happy to acquire a talented forward like Sergei Berezin,” said Habs general manager Andre Savard. “He possesses good scoring skills, great speed he will be a significant addition to our offence.”
Berezin was happy to hear he was going to Montreal, where he will play with former Leafs teammate Yanic Perreault.
“I am very excited about it,” Berezin said on a conference call. “I’m looking forward to getting started in the biggest hockey city in the world.”
Berezin, a native of Russia, was to fly from Detroit to Montreal on Habs owner George Gillett’s plane. He’ll play Saturday if he passes a Habs physical.
“(I) left a message for Perreault. We played together for a long time in Toronto and hopefully we’ll play together.”
Savage, who was in his eighth season with the Canadiens, becomes an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season.
The 30-year-old native of Sudbury, Ont., has played his entire career with the Canadiens. Earlier this season, Savage turned down a three-year, $9-million US contract. He is reportedly looking for a $5 million a season.
In 461 games, Savage has 155 goals with 130 assists. His best season came in 1996-97 when he set career highs in assists (37) and points (60) in 81 games.

[Doc Holliday]

Interesting comment about "softness" there HW.  I guess the more accurate way of describing our situation is a lack of players that can be physically dominating.  Koivu, Audette, Petrov, Juneau, Ribeiro and Dackell ain't soft but they won't put an opposing blue line in dissaray because of the fear they instill with their forecheck.  So if you're Savard do you work on getting towards and Oilers model of heavy forechecking team which means trading at least 3-4 players to get there or do you try and work with what you have and go towards a finess run and gun model in which Berezin fits like a glove.  With Zed, Koivu, Berezin, Petrov and Bulis you have a VERY fast team.

Things I remember about Berezin is his end to end reels, flying like a rocket.  And not the Pavel Bure kind of breakaway, waiting at the blue line, the Modano kinda thing, picking the puck from behind his net and doin' it all by himself.  One thing I remember also is that he drove the Leafs fans nuts because he is probably the worst puck hog in the business.  With him and Zednik in the lineup I wonder if anybody else will get a shot on goal!!  

In any case, just like in Rucinsky's case we'll have to remember that we're trading a player that was doing nothing for us anymore.

[seventeen]

Let's see, we get a scorer who isn't a UFA, for a pseudo scorer, who is.   Could be worse.  I hate giving up draft choices, but I guess we theoretically could turn Berezin into draft choices down the road.  These 2 are really similar players in style, but SB is faster and more consistent at scoring.  Does this bode well for the power play?  One thing about Berezin, he can beat  people 1 on 1, so our offense just got a lot more interesting.  

How did Savage get this reputation this year for being a leader?  By default, I gather, but agree that he's never been a leader.  I too, got some very bad vibes when I heard Savage's comments about being 'told' he should play.  The final straw I guess.  I like Savard's very clear message about loyalty, now if he could just lay off the draft choices, I'd be happier.  No doubt though, Savage's UFA status required a throw-in, and Phoenix can't afford salaries.  

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

i was figuring a 2nd round pick would the best we could do in exchange for bs. instead it's 6 of one for half a dozen of the other. besides sb HAS scored 30+ goals in the nhl whereas bs hasn't. selfish, those two both look the same in the mirror in that regard.

better than the poke in the eye with a sharp stick that we've got in the past for ufas.

[The New Guy]

I like the deal - not a whole lot, mostly because I like watching Berezin.  

Berezin and Savage are for all intents and purposes the same player, except Berezin is an RFA and Savage is a UFA.  Savage is a little more given to digging in the corners, and can dish the puck with some degree of skill, Berezin is like watching poetry in motion while skating, has a sufficently powerful shot - but is a big puck hog.  Funny thing is, this doesn't really kill him, since he actually has the talent to be a puck hog.  If we break him of that it might be a steal.

Don't like the throw in third and conditional picks, but you've got to give to get.  I think Savage needed to go, and Berezin is a good return given the situation.  Much better than I thought we'd get.

A lot of people are whining about the fact we got no picks - HELLO PEOPLE.  We're trying to make the playoffs.  Remember that?  How good it felt to make the playoffs?  Right there on the perhiphery of our memory.  Who would've been willing to bet at the start of the season that we'd be sitting in a tie for eighth in the east at this point in the season.  

[glow=red,2,300]Later[/glow]  

[Gord]

My problem with this stems from two things..  One, with Sergei Berezin, what you see if what you get.  You're aware of the kind of player he is, and exactly what he's capable of.  He had one superb season with 37 goals, and several good ones with 20+.  You've seen the best of Sergei Berezin already.

Brian Savage, on the other hand, could tantalize you with his skill and shot, and always be just on the verge of that big season we always expected.  Injuries always seemed to hamper that, as did the transition from October to November, but that's another story..  The thing is, I don't think we've yet to see the best of Brian Savage.  We may yet, but the problem is he'll do it in another team's jersey.

My second problem with this trade is a more psychological one.  I don't think anyone will argue that, pound for pound, dollar values hypthetically equal, contracts notwithstanding, injury-free, Brian Savage is the better of these two players.   So, if Savard's modus operendi is to make the playoffs this year, what does it say that you trade for a slightly lesser player this long before the deadline?  Does this mean he's giving up on the playoffs as a realistic goal for this season?  If the playoffs were the goal, wouldn't you want the best player available to you to try and carry you to that place?  

By March, there would have been a clearer picture of whether or not this team was going to be in the playoffs..  Perhaps then would have been a better choice for unloading would-be free-agents for the purpose of replacing them with warm bodies with contracts.

[Johnny Verdun]

Savage is the better player pound for pound? Not by much, if at all.   He doesn't create more chances for his linemates than Berezin, who has a more accurate shot and who will generate more rebounds as a result.   He doesn't play more physically, though he's a bit bigger than Sergi.  He doesn't score goals on an even pace, but rather comes out of the blocks strong each fall and then fades.

As for the playoffs, trading Savage for picks or a prospect might have been a sign to the players that he wasn't serious about making a run. But getting a guy who will score more goals in his first two weeks as a hab than Brian has over the last month and a half definitely sends the right signal.

[Gord]

A quick look at this year's stats show us that Brian Savage has 14 goals and 15 assists for 29 points after 47 games.  Sergei Berezin currently has 7 goals and 9 assists for 16 points in 41 games.  How is it, exactly, that you figure Berezin is suddenly going to start scoring in bunches simply because he becomes a Montreal Canadien?  

Is it that he will be free of the shackles of the tight-checking, no room to move, trap-filled Western Conference?  Oh wait, my mistake..  That's the East.  Granted, Berezin did his big scoring here in the East, but he scored an (overachieving) 37 goals one single time, and has declined since..  He's also not much of a passer, something Savage could do just as well as score.  

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, as the saying goes, on this issue, but I can say without hesitation that all things being equal, I'd rather have Brian Savage on my team than Sergei Berezin.  Time will tell, I guess.  This is a case where I wouldn't mind being proven wrong at all.

[Johnny Verdun]

But a quick look at this year's stats would tell you that Brian Savage is a better offensive player than Pierre Turgeon, but you wouldn't make that argument, would you?

Berezin was injured at the beginning of the year, missed camp almost entirely, and missed at least the first ten games of the season.  Since then, it has become perfectly clear to everyone there that he simply didn't fit the program in Phoenix. His ice time dropped, he was off the powerplay, etc...

I expect he'll come alive exactly as Audette did in his five games before being sliced.  

Berezin has been the more consistent scorer than Savage by a decent margin in the last 5 years.   More importantly, unlike Savage he doesn't bunch all his production up in the first 25 games of the season.  Savage hadn't done squat in about 6 weeks and it was perfectly consistent with his m.o.  And as for Savage's passing skills, I just can't agree that they're significantly better than Berezin's.  It's not as though Brian has ever kick-started anyone's production by creating space, making nifty plays in traffic, or putting the puck on somebody's stick in the slot.  Much more often than not, he's angling for position waiting for someone to do that for him.  And for all the hype, he's never had more than 26 goals (if you want to talk about declining production just look at Savage's numbers since 96 or whenever it was he had his career year.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Berezin's a world beater, cause I don't, but he's a better pure scorer than Savage and he can get things going with his speed and his shot that Savage can't.  And we're just not giving away that much defensively or in all round play.  Savage looks like a better hockey player, but when you actually watch what he's doing, and what he's not doing out there, it's pretty clear that he's as one-dimensional as Berezin and not as good at it.  

And appropos your last comment, "all things being equal"....well, they weren't.  Brian wouldn't sign for a reasonable amount, so that was all she wrote.  You wouldn't have paid him 4.75 million a year for his (on average) 15 goals a year, would you?  Maybe 3 million? Well, that's what Berezin will make next year (about 3.2).....

[Vichab]

I think it's a good trade. The BS situation was starting to fester and had to be resolved. Otherwise it would hurt the team's playing and make it more difficult to trade him as other gms would see AS as desperate as the trade deadline approached.

At worst the trade is break even but we pick up an extra year. Time was running short on the BS trigger. SB can't deliver any less than BS has provided for us lately. The upside is SB may flourish here now that he's away from the plodding Coyotes. I don't se SB being much different than Audette as they can both put the puck in the net which is what we've needed for some time. Some might say that audette is soft but look what happened for the brief period that Audette was playing healthy. AS knows we have a void in no sniper and he's gone and got another. I agree that one team cannot have Saku (God love him), Petrov, Audette, Ribiero and SB but right now we don't even know if Saku (God love him) or Audette will ever play again or at the level we once knew. When they all get healthy we can cross that bridge then and it won't be too difficult to unload any of them.

The concern of the loss of the draft pick is overrated. We have lots of prospects and in my mind the likelihood of a third rounder making it are no different than a fifth or sixth rounder. It's the first and second rounders that matter the others are all a crap shoot. We need to make the playoffs now. I'll take the bird in hand anytime and SB can fly. I'm already looking forward to tomorrow's or today's game.

[WhyteKnight63]

Habaroni and Cheese: I thought your comment about late picks (Robitaille) was quite ironic in this case considering we traded Savage (Montreal's 10th choice, 171st overall in 1991) for Sergei Berezin (Toronto's 8th choice, 256th overall in 1994). I also remember reading a post in the last month about how the Habs were quite successful drafting BEYOND the 3rd round. I felt that was quite ironic (in a funny sort of way...) :-)

HabWest/Doc Holliday: That comment about softness as related to hits and PIMs was mine. Although I do agree that these are 'loose' indicators, logic dictates that if you are playing a physical game, or even if you are forechecking and backchecking and going into the corners, you are bound to get called for a penalty (Be it holding, elbowing, tripping, or whatever comes from close contact with someone.). Looking at his stats for the last 5 yrs since he's been in the League:
PIMs: 2 mins in 73 games, 10 in 68, 12 in 76, 2 in 61, 8 in 79 leads me to believe that he never goes around another player on the ice.
Hits: only last 3 years in NHL record book. 24 hits in 76 games, 18 in 61, 33 in 79 so about 1 hit every 3 games. I guess he doesn't really take too many people out of the play...

Seventeen: I also wonder when Savage started being a Leader, as he has never really acted like one. I also felt he was going to be traded after his comment AND it is a good thing he did because of that. You do not need a 'problem' player if you are trying to make the playoffs.

Gord: I wonder where you get the idea that Savage is a better passer than Berezin? Comparing them since Berezin came into the NHL:
Berezin played 357 games, scored 126 goals, assisted on 94 for a total of 220 points
Savage played 299 games, scored 103 goals, assisted on 100 for a total of 203 points
Only 6 more assists in 5 years do not exactly make Savage much more of a passer, statistically anyway?
As for Berezin's supposed decline since his best year, he did have 50 points last year, which is only 2 years after his best year AND only 9 points less.

Johnny Verdun: Thanks for filling me in on what the situation has been for Berezin this year, I didn't know the details. I agree with you that it will be nice to have someone contributing all year instead of just in October. We need scoring now if we are going to make the playoffs.

About the draft pick(s) loss: I am not sure where we stand on draft picks, but it may not hurt us as much as most of us, including myself, has mentioned. One thing I discounted was the fact that we may have more that one pick for that round, IF we have acquired one in a previous trade. Maybe someone knows for sure?

About Savard: As some people have said, another Savard trade coming out of the blue. However, it is one that had to be done because Savage's status (UFA), his recent comment, his lack of production AND the fact that we need all horses pulling in the same direction IF we want to make the playoffs. Face it, Savage had become a distraction to the team that had to dealt with (pun intended!).

WOW! It's amazing how you start type a short reply and it just grows magically on you... :-)

Cheers!

[WhyteKnight63]

About Berezin: If any of you have read the articles on other sites, it seems like Berezin IS looking forward to coming to the Habs AND is looking forward to being reunited with Perreault. That is very refreshing and a good sign, now let's hope it translates into points on the scoreboard and in the standings...

More about Savard: In those same articles, Savard mentioned something to the effect of the fact that he had acquired Perreault played a role on the acquisition of Berezin. That reminded me of a previous post of mine, where I was thinking that AS has a master plan to all his player movements (reuniting Dackell-Juneau, playing Hossa with them, etc...). It may all be coincidences, although I doubt it, but I find it refreshing to have a GM who seems to know where he is going and seems to have a plan on how to get there.

[Gord]

Regarding Berezin's assist totals, you'll notice that Savage has played 60 fewer games.  Combine that with the fact that Toronto has been an offensive machine for the last few years while Montreal has had a more defense-first approach(ostensibly), and you cannot discount the fact that many of Berezin's "assists" are simply incidental, he happened to be the last to tough the puck before Sundin, Perreault or whoever put it in the net.  I can recall many instances where I saw a well-placed pass from Savage, but not come to mind for Sergei immediately.

Berezin is a shooter, pure and simple.  He'd actually have to *pass* the puck to be a good passer, no?  Having watched both players over the last few years (I live in the the Leafs TV region, unfortunately, but thanks to the French satellite stations I get every Habs game too), it's clear that Savage is the more talented passer.  

As for his comments on coming here, I really wouldn't put too much stock in that.  I mean, you've just been traded to a new team, what are you going to say?  "Man, I hate that city.  The fans suck, the place is freezing, and I don't even like poutine!".  Well, if you're Brett Hull that's what you say, but we're talking Sergei Berezin here.  He said the right things because that's what you're *supposed* to say.

I'll try to remain cautiously optimistic about this, but I'm certainly going to have a hard time of it.  I just feel a case of the John Leclair Syndrome coming on.  Yeah, I know, Savage isn't and never will be JL.  He will, however, have his best season in the NHL is someone else's uniform.  I'm willing to take on any bets that say Savage will outscore Berezin for the next 3 years, guaranteed.

[BadCompany]

Gord said:

I'm willing to take on any bets that say Savage will outscore Berezin for the next 3 years, guaranteed.

I think you're right, Savage will probably outscore Berezin over the next three years, and maybe over the next five or eight, but I think we have to stop looking at trades in that way.

The question shouldn't be "Who is doing better?" but "Did our team get better?"

Will the Canadiens be a better team with Sergie Berezin on it instead of Brian Savage? Doesn't matter if Phoenix, or Toronto, or LA or whoever are better teams because Brian goes there, but are we a better team with Berezin instead of Savage?

We waited close to a decade for Savage to have that infamous break out season of his, and it never came. Personally, I don't think it was ever going to come here, anymore than I think John Leclair would have become the superstar he became if he hadn't of left Montreal. Is Berezin going to be better than the non-breakout Savage? If he is, then this is a good trade. We can't compare him to how well Savage is doing in Phoenix, we have to compare Berezin to how well Savage would have done if he had of stayed in Montreal. Its a voodoo science, I admit, but that's the way it should be looked at.

There doesn't have to be a "loser" in every trade. If Berezin does well for us, then we will be winners, regardless of how well Savage plays elsewhere. He wasn't going to do it here, so any upgrade should be seen as that, an upgrade.

I was browsing through Hockey's Future the other day - I don't know why I bother - and there was this huge argument over how well Danius Zubrus was doing this year. Zubrus is doing fine, very well in fact though his stats don't show it. The Capitals are very happy with him. And yet people were doing their darndest to put him down, like it mattered. I am very happy with Jan Bulis and Richard Zednik. I am also very happy for Danius Zubrus. I would have liked to have kept him in Montreal, but you have to give in order to get, and the bottom line is Montreal is a better team because of that deal. If Washington feels they did all right too, well, good on them. Doesn't hurt us in the least.

All Sergei Berezin has to do to make this a good deal for us, is score more goals than Brian Savage would have scored, if he had of stayed with us. Savage can score 40 goals from here until the end of the season, but it doesn't matter, because he wasn't going to do it here. If Berezin can score say, 14 or 15 from here until the end, then I think we will have come out ahead.

And I guess in the end that's all that really matters.

[habscout]

Gord, at least Berezin had an injury during training camp to explain his poor production this season. Outside of October, what was Savage's excuse for his poor production?

Bah, if Savage's trade value is Berezin, then that's fine with me. Perhaps Berezin has been labelled "selfish" when he was with the Laffs, but at least the guy has the desire and drive to go for the net. He has great speed and a good shot, so talent wise the Habs are ahead.  I thought that Zednik was a "selfish" player when he first arrived with the Habs, but he's adjusted to Therrien's system and appears less selfish now. Goal scorers are always more than a little selfish

Gord said:

I absolutely hate this deal..  Losing Savage is bad enough, but to lose a third rounder as well for an underachieving, puck-hogging soft Russian is mortifying.  Savage was a leader, a great talent, and very dedicated to this team.  This makes me think of the Weinrich for Traverse deal, which was pulled much too soon.  Savage's value would have been much higher later in the year, when teams were looking to make a playoff run.

Berezin is the same age, makes the same money (currently), and will not carry this team into the playoffs.  I would much rather have taken my chances waiting till the trade deadline to see if we could have gotten a better return.  Or, better yet, signed Savage to a more reasonable contract than 5 bills before the season was out..  Savage liked being a Montreal Canadien, and was proud to wear that sweater.  Somehow, I think Berezin probably couldn't care less.

[Doc Holliday]

BC, that is something I always tried to defend.  So many people judge trades in terms of absolute value and predictable return when in fact a trade is a chaotic process that depends on team needs, player fit and general team direction.  You are right the only way to judge a trade is how it worked for both teams reagradless of individual player stats.  The best exemple of that is the Recchi acquisition.  It goes down in history as one of Savard's biggest blunders but at the time we acquired a top 5 point producer in the NHL for a third liner and an offensive dmen.  Recchi then became here a leader and one of our best, if not our best, player.  Still Leclair's success in Philly was used as a measure that the trade wasn't good.  Funny enough, ever since Recchi got back in Philly he's been a better point producer and a more important player then Leclair.  I'd still pick Recchi over Leclair today.

As for Savage in Pheonix, I really can't see how he's of any help to that franchise and to his own career.  I see this as a mere bump on his way to Toronto where Kelly wanted him to land next summer, probably ever since last summer.  If Savage becomes an important player of a struggling Phoenix franchise and elects to stay there past this season, I'll seriously question my own perception of the game.

[habwest]

Bad CO and Doc I agree on how trades should be regarded; Recci is a good example. I`ve always loved that player and I think that Leclair`s breakout and success had a lot to do with Lindros. Leclair is not as productive without Lindros at center.

Also a comment about `waiting until near the trade deadline` to get a better return on a deal:
1)what if Savage had gotten hurt? That wouldn`t be surprising;
2)Savard was quoted by Sportsnet as saying `the offer was there for Brian and it didn`t look like he was going to take it...with us fighting for the playoffs, we wanted to get a player in return and move on`. An interesting insight into the team`s thinking. Indeed waiting until the deadline might have meant, at least in Savard`s mind` in writing this season off and that`s something that he won`t do because he`s not a quitter,neither is the team and the coach, and certainly you can`t afford to send that message out to the owner and fans.

I think that is a very important point. As HA outlined, the Habs need to play .500 hockey over the `Scary Sixteen` games leading up to the trading deadline. And to beat this to death, I think that my analysis has amply demonstrated that the team can`t afford to let slip even a single point in its beleagured attempt to reach the Big Show. I agree with those that say Berezin gives us a better chance of doing this than Savage.

3)the argument that a better return could of been had by waiting until the end not only runs into the above counter argument but I think in and of itself is an unfair charge. It`s easy to make such a statement because of course it`s impossible to prove it wrong in my estimation. You will always be able to find a talking head who quotes annonymous `sources` to that effect but this is simply more of the same and even if their is a source, how are they in a position to know? It`s probably nothing more than insider gossip or worse. Unless somebody is willing to be quoted by name so that the evidence can be openly judged, I think that this kind of commentary should be rejected out of hand unless that transaction is so stupid as to permit no reasonable argument in its favour- which isn`t the case here by a long shot.

It`s too easy to be critical from the sidelines in this fashion w/o knowing what`s really going on and w/o having the responsibility of being left holding the bag if no deadline trade could be pulled off for Savage, or if the trade were  in desparation to be weaker than that for Berezin.

Coming from a history background such commentary would be viewed as `bad history`, again with the caveat that this probably doesn`t apply to a situation that on its face is completely lopsided.

Having said all of this I remain respectful of the views, pro or con, whether I agree with them or not, of the transaction that has transpired.

[MPLABBE]

Here are my thoughts on the deal.You guys liked my Zednik,Bulis trade analysis so much,hope you say the same thing about this one ;D


To me,this looks like a classic problem for problem kind of deal.Berezin never fit in with Coyotes,mainly due to a knee injury he suffered at the start of camp.He never found his rythim and was not even playing on the PP in Phoenix.He asked to be traded.

We traded a player who was about to become a UFA and a player who wanted much more money than he was worth.Savard compared him to Audette and Perreault(rightfully so) and in his mind,Savage is worth what these 2 players are worth.Around 3 million per year.While Savage has always teased us Montreal fans with his potential,let's not forget that he has NEVER produced when placed with a decent center.He has to play with all-star kind of talents like Turgeon,Damphouse and obviously Koivu to produce big time numbers.He is very similar to a guy like Jonas Hoglund or Mikael Renberg in that regard,who have done nothing in their NHL careers withouth a Sundin or a Lindros(in the case of Renberg) centering them.


Who wins the deal? if you look talent for talent.It's equal.Berezin has better wheels than Savage,but is not as good of a passer.Both have deadly shots.


Savage has no more excuses.He is heading to the Western Conference,he is gonna play with a pretty good center in Daymond Langkow and a good young power forward in Shane Doan.The Coyotes have got alot of good centerman to try with Savage(Langkow,Kolanos,Handzus,Briere,etc).He is also going to play in the more wide open Western conference.


Berezin is gonna play with Perreault.Their chemistry is obvious.And if you saw today's game,you saw Berezin was pretty good.He shoots from anywhere(something we desperately need) and is a right-handed shot(something we also need to replace Audette).He brings an element of speed,which can make the Habs deadly in wide open contests(imagine once Koivu is back next year!).


Basically,we traded Brian Savage for a player who is similar to him,except he has better wheels and is not as good of a passer.Habs have plenty of good passers(Ribeiro,Perreault,Gilmour and hopefully Saku next year).They need goal scorers,and Berezin IS a goal scorer.


True,this deal does make the team even smaller,and that is something Savard will HAVE to fix sooner rather than later and we did give up a 3rd rounder and some futures.But overall,we got pretty good value for a player who we were going to lose anyways.And it's nice to see Berezin happy to be coming to MTL.Just a week ago,few thought we would get a 3rd rounder for Savage.

[Habdul]

That assesment is about as good as it gets Marc.  8) .

I can't think to add much more, except that we also got rid of a player who did not want to be here(It was obvious to me), for a guy who looks thrilled to be here, playing with his old linemate, Perreault.

I could not bare to see Savage's brooding face on the bench anymore.

Ps(no pun intended). Mr.Bozo, that bs for sb stuff was hilarious.  ;D