|
|
Post by heidivanstone on Aug 12, 2005 22:41:40 GMT -5
Hello:
Now that free agency is slowing down, I was wondering what other Habs fans think were Montreals single worst and best trade.
I do not know alot of our historical trades, but in my time line a few stand out (and I know there maybe others).
My vote for one of the best trades is Russ Courtnall for John Kordik. That was a steal of a deal.
My vote for worst trade would be Denis Savard for Chris Chelios and a 3rd round draft pick I believe. (Although trading Roy and Keane for Thibault, Kovelenko and Rucinsky was fairly poor as well!)
Share your opinions please.
|
|
|
|
Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 12, 2005 23:27:33 GMT -5
Best swindle trade I recall since I've been following the Habs has been Ernie Hicke and Chris Oddleifson for Guy Lafleur.
Dainius Zubrus, Trevor Linden, and Nathan Paetsch for Jan Bulis, Richard Zednik, and Alexander Perezhogin, is a very good recent trade.
|
|
|
|
Post by SchoonerGuy on Aug 13, 2005 0:14:29 GMT -5
Hello: Now that free agency is slowing down, I was wondering what other Habs fans think were Montreals single worst and best trade. I do not know alot of our historical trades, but in my time line a few stand out (and I know there maybe others). My vote for one of the best trades is Russ Courtnall for John Kordik. That was a steal of a deal. My vote for worst trade would be Denis Savard for Chris Chelios and a 3rd round draft pick I believe. (Although trading Roy and Keane for Thibault, Kovelenko and Rucinsky was fairly poor as well!) Share your opinions please. Actually it was Chelios AND a 2nd rounder for Denis Savard. An awful trade for the Habs. Also, Houle made a bunch of terrible trades for veterans where he always seemed to throw in prospects just to get the deal done and then never replaced these prospects due to horrendous drafting. I would have to think longer about the best trade but Courtnall for Kordic was a pretty good one that comes to mind. Actually, the Habs haven't made many great trades in recent memory. |
|
|
|
Post by heidivanstone on Aug 13, 2005 7:19:52 GMT -5
Kirk Muller and Roland Melanson for Stephane Richer and Tom Chorske in 1991 was a pretty good deal. Considering that both Kirk Muller and Patrick Roy had an excellent playoff the year we won the cup!
|
|
|
|
Post by nyhabsfan on Aug 13, 2005 9:04:40 GMT -5
One horrible trade that still haunts us was: John Leclair, Eric Desjardens and Gilbert Dionne for Mark Recchi. We never have had a power forward like Leclair in our lineup and Desjardens was a steady leader on D that we still miss. Leclair as most of you know OWNED us through most of his career. He and Muller were my favorite habs in the'93 cup run. I still wish he would put on #17 and play one last year for the Habs, put practically, the kids now need to play. If that wasn't bad enough, we GAVE Recchi back to Philly for Zubuis and a pick... I think??? SO they got Recchi, Laclair and Desjardens which were part of their CORE team for many years and we got shafted. The ONLY concellation is that Zubruis and Linden got us Zednik, Bulis and the draft pick who turned out to be Perezohgin. So in the end Lost: Leclair, Desjardens, Dionne, Recchi Added: Zednik, Bulis, Prerezhogin The trade is starting to turn in our direction now, but is killed us for so many years!  |
|
|
|
Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 13, 2005 10:13:38 GMT -5
Rogie Vachon for Denis DeJordy, Dale Hoganson, Noel Price and Doug Robinson wasn't a favourite of mine. But we did have that law student who had been pretty good in nets in the playoffs the season before.
*
Engblom, Langway, Jarvis, and Laughlin for Green and Walter, I thought was brutal at the time. Though the 1986 Cup has in retrospect softened the edge a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by clear observer on Aug 13, 2005 10:41:39 GMT -5
Engblom, Langway, Jarvis, and Laughlin for Green and Walter, I thought was brutal at the time. Though the 1986 Cup has in retrospect softened the edge a bit. ...and both Walter and Green were integral parts of that team, as well. For the record, I didn't like the trade at the time either. |
|
|
|
Post by habsburgher on Aug 15, 2005 9:22:28 GMT -5
worst trade claude lemeiux to new jersey for sylvain turgeon best trade  ?? |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Aug 15, 2005 11:43:20 GMT -5
So in the end Lost: Leclair, Desjardens, Dionne, Recchi Added: Zednik, Bulis, Prerezhogin Hum, no, it doesn't work like that. We didn't start out with Recchi, so we can't count him as lost. If you want to sum up the trades it becomes: Leclair, Dionne, Desjardins, 10th overall 1999, 2nd round pick 2001 for Zednik, Bulis, 1st round pick 2001. Also, I'm not counting Dykhuis, which though acquired for "future considerations", a good case could be made that he was a throw-in who just came along a little later. Recchi, Zubrus and Linden were the middlemen, but you can't count them on either side if you get them then get rid of them. |
|
|
|
Post by Forum Ghost on Aug 15, 2005 12:55:44 GMT -5
The Zednik/Bulis/Perezhogin trade is one of the best recent trades for the Habs for sure.
Another good, recent trade that comes to mind is the one that saw the Habs send Vladimir Malakhov to NJ for Sheldon Souray, Josh Dewolf and a 2nd rd. pick.
The 2nd rd. pick was later traded to WSH in the Zednik deal.
|
|
|
|
Post by Forum Ghost on Aug 15, 2005 12:59:36 GMT -5
The two worst trades in Habs history, IMO, are the Roy and Leclair deals.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Aug 15, 2005 13:43:05 GMT -5
The two worst trades in Habs history, IMO, are the Roy and Leclair deals. I agree, largely because both of these were after a Cup and really didn't lead to anything. I can accept just about anything that leads to a Cup (like Chelios for Savard). Getting Souray was a good deal, given that Vladdy was really not going to do anything more for us. Still, it was a good deal for NJ too - they got a Cup out of it. The deal that got us Zednik was good, but let's not forget that Zubrus and Linden weren't chopped liver, and that the 1st round pick could have been (and still could become) a flop, which changes the dynamics of the deal quite a bit. Turgeon for Corson was a tough one, because really, we could still use Turgeon and Tremblay just mishandled him and Houle got rid of him. I remember Serge Savard saying that Houle called him after the deal and asked his opinion. "I wish he'd called me before making the deal". |
|
|
|
Post by razor on Aug 15, 2005 13:58:13 GMT -5
Good
I liked the Bobby Smith for Mark Napier and Keith Acton deal.
A case of getting something for nothing was when we got Brian Hayward from the Jets for Steve Penny and Jan Ingman.
Bad
Looking back, we sent a steady D in Craig Ludwig to the Islanders for Gerald Diduck, who only played 32 games for us and was dealt away to Vancouver for a 4th round pick (Vladimir Vutjek), was a bad one. But for absolute worst, I have to say the Roy and Chelios trades.
.
I think that in more recent trades, equating value has certainly been skewed by the economics of the game. The days of getting value for value may be long gone. But it is nice to look back.
|
|
|
|
Post by insomnius on Aug 15, 2005 14:53:32 GMT -5
How did we lose Rod Langway?
I seem to remember hating the way we lost him - he seemed to me to be the natural successor to the Big Bird...
|
|
|
|
Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 15, 2005 16:38:42 GMT -5
How did we lose Rod Langway? I seem to remember hating the way we lost him - he seemed to me to be the natural successor to the Big Bird... 6th post down from the top. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 15, 2005 17:13:19 GMT -5
The two worst trades in Habs history, IMO, are the Roy and Leclair deals. Yep. LeClair wasn't given a consistent chance to play his own style of game. And it wasn't enough that he proved he could play his own game in the '93 Cup run. He was probably one of the best leaders we had on the ice during those playoffs. At the time he was traded he was our leading scorer in the pre-season. I still remember the press conference in Philly after his first game as a Flyer. "... yeah, things were getting kinda stangnent in Montreal."That about summed it up well. The Roy trade was a flinch pure and simple. To boot, the Avs only had to ask for our captain, Mike Keane, in the deal and away he went. There were very few positives with the players that came the other way, but the end result was that the deal gave the Avs the Cup. I also thought the Carbonneau-for-Montgomery deal was an extremely tough thing to swallow. We had a fine captain in Kirk Muller and LeClair was emerging as a leader that season as well. The team might have ebbed a tad to that point, but I'm convinced they had the players to recover from it. However, when Carbo left the team plummeted. Sure the team had flashes here and there, but, we never recovered from Carbonneau's departure. The best trade ... hmmm ... Mewsey Lalonde for Aurel Joliet I guess wasn't a bad one. Read that one in an old yellow-paged paperback from the 60's the other day. Seriously, I also liked the Vinny Damphousse deal as well. I think it was Corson, Gilcrest and Vujtek for Damphousse, who was probably the second-best French-Canadian player at the time. That deal was a lucky one for us though. Sather was offered one of Gilcrest, Keane or LeClair to complete the deal. He took Gilcrest on advice from one of his scouts on the premise that, as a prarie boy, Brent would be motivated by coming home to play for the Oilers. From what I understand that scout didn't last too long after. It didn't help watching Damphousse hoist the Cup either me thinks. Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Forum Ghost on Aug 15, 2005 19:56:22 GMT -5
I also thought the Carbonneau-for-Montgomery deal was an extremely tough thing to swallow. Yup. The Carbonneau trade was another flinch job by Serge Savard. Carbo flips the bird to a reporter and Savard flips him to St. Louis for Montgomery. The Habs lost a tremendous amount of leadership during the mid-to-late-90s. Carbonneau, Muller, Keane, Damphousse, Recchi, Corson. These were guys who had respect all throughout the league as great leaders. They all wore either a "C" or an "A" during their time in Montreal. Carbonneau, Muller and Keane were the backbone of our Cup winning team in '93. It's no wonder that the Habs were a losing team for so long. No club can lose that much leadership, that fast and still expect to succeed. |
|
|
|
Post by insomnius on Aug 18, 2005 14:28:42 GMT -5
Engblom, Langway, Jarvis, and Laughlin for Green and Walter, I thought was brutal at the time. Though the 1986 Cup has in retrospect softened the edge a bit. Thanks Mr B - it is my considered opinion that Langway and Engblom would have been equivalent to Green and Walter ... |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 18, 2005 16:34:30 GMT -5
I think getting Muller for Richer really ranks up there as well.
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 18, 2005 18:00:14 GMT -5
Turgeon for Corson was a tough one, because really, we could still use Turgeon and Tremblay just mishandled him and Houle got rid of him. I remember Serge Savard saying that Houle called him after the deal and asked his opinion. "I wish he'd called me before making the deal". That was a total heartbreaker for me. I mean the guy was coming off a 38 goals, 96 points season for goodness sake... It took the Kovalev trade, 7 years later for us to see such an offensive impact player in the CH again. Thornton for Lind was pretty brutal. Hackett/Weinrich for TBO/Manson was pretty decent for us. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Aug 18, 2005 18:03:58 GMT -5
Best swindle trade I recall since I've been following the Habs has been Ernie Hicke and Chris Oddleifson for Guy Lafleur. Don't forget the all-important part deux: Ralph Backstrom to LA for Ray Fortin and Gord Labossiere (then Labossiere to Minnesota) ; Backstrom's play led the Kings from last place contention, allowing Montreal to anguish over Lafleur or Dionne. Good choice. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Aug 18, 2005 18:09:47 GMT -5
Hello: My vote for worst trade would be Denis Savard for Chris Chelios and a 3rd 2nd round draft pick. Compounded, of course, by the fact that Montreal passed Savard over in the draft and chose Wickenheiser  |
|
|
|
Post by roke on Aug 18, 2005 18:21:16 GMT -5
Hello: My vote for worst trade would be Denis Savard for Chris Chelios and a 3rd 2nd round draft pick. Compounded, of course, by the fact that Montreal passed Savard over in the draft and chose Wickenheiser Ahh, the draft that could have brought the Habs Gretzkey if it wasn't for the WHA. I'd say the Recchi trade, especially since it was Leclair AND Desjardins??? |
|
|
|
Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Aug 18, 2005 19:14:34 GMT -5
Best swindle trade I recall since I've been following the Habs has been Ernie Hicke and Chris Oddleifson for Guy Lafleur. Don't forget the all-important part deux: Ralph Backstrom to LA for Ray Fortin and Gord Labossiere (then Labossiere to Minnesota) ; Backstrom's play led the Kings from last place contention, allowing Montreal to anguish over Lafleur or Dionne. Good choice. Good memory! As a kid, for who knows what reason, #6 was one of my favourite Habs. * Q&A with Ralph Backstrom By Darrell Blair DarrellBlair@coloradoan.com Coloradoan reporter Darrell Blair sat down with six-time Stanley Cup winner Ralph Backstrom and talked hockey. Here are a few of the living legend's thoughts on the game, its players and his favorite memories. Coloradoan: Who is the best hockey player, all time? Backstrom: The best I ever played against was Gordie Howe. Coloradoan: Did you hate playing against him? Backstrom: Oh, yeah. Everybody did. He was a mean man, but just a great player. I had the chance to play with him in '74 with team Canada and found out he was a pretty nice guy. Coloradoan: Did you ever go up to him and say, 'I hated to play against you?' Backstrom: I told him many times. They call him Mr. Elbows. He said the reason he used his elbows was that he was slope-shouldered. He said, 'I don't have any shoulders. I go from my neck to the top of my arms here. I had to keep my elbows up. If I didn't, I was getting hit all the time.' That was his rationale — sloped shoulders. Coloradoan: What was the worst place to play? Backstrom: An exhibition game in Newfoundland. I can't recall the name of the city. We had to take a boat to get to this island. We all got seasick going over to this island, the players, on a junior team. We got there and the rink, the dimensions I think were 150 feet by 50 feet. (Standard is 200 by 85). I can't remember the name of the town. Anyway, that's probably the worst place we ever played. Coloradoan: Where was the best place to play? Backstrom: Ah, the old Forum (in Montreal). Coloradoan: Because of history and the team? Backstrom: Yeah, and the ice, great ice. They always had perfect ice there. We'd go into some cities and they'd turn the compressors down a little to try and get mushy ice. They never admitted that they did it, but it was true. We played in a lot of mushy ice on the road. Coloradoan: Trying to slow you guys down? Backstrom: Yep. Coloradoan: What was the best moment for you? With six Stanley Cups, I'd imagine it's kind of hard to pick one. Backstrom: Well, believe it or not, winning the Memorial Cup — the championship of Canada with the Junior Canadiens. I was captain of the team, and that ranks right up there with any Stanley Cup. Coloradoan: Is that because you were more involved as a captain and felt like you had more to do with it? Backstrom: Yeah, and winning a Memorial Cup in Canada … in those days it was probably the best junior league in the world. There were probably, I don't know, if I had to guess, 75 major-junior teams playing hockey at the time. So to win a championship, you had to be a pretty good team. Sam Pollock is coaching, and Scotty Bowman is assistant coach, and winning the Memorial Cup is a pretty big thrill. So, I'd rank it right up there with the Stanley Cups. Originally published Sept. 14, 2003 - source* The Game I'll Never Forget Hockey Digest, April, 2003 by Chuck O'Donnell new Save a personal copy of this article and quickly find it again with Furl.net. It's free! Save it. WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, I remember watching Montreal Canadiens general manager Frank Selke being interviewed one night on TV. I was playing in juniors at the time. Selke was explaining that even though Rocket Richard only got one shot on goal that particular night, he made that shot--an overtime game-winner--count. I'm not comparing myself to the Rocket by any means, but as I was sitting there waiting for overtime to start in our playoff game with the Boston Bruins in 1969, I was thinking about how I was now in the same situation. There I was, wondering whether I could score on my first shot of the night. I remember thinking that as clear as can be. It's always stuck with me. That series I had the dubious honor of playing against Phil Esposito. He was my man, especially at home, because we had the last line change. - www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCM/is_6_31/ai_98565883 |
|
|
|
Post by vin on Jun 7, 2007 10:30:02 GMT -5
The best trade had to be Guy Allen and Paul Reid to Boston for Ken Dryden.Reid and Allen never played a game in the NHL.
|
|
|
|
Post by insomnius on Jun 7, 2007 13:40:27 GMT -5
DAMN!!! I was just going to post the Dryden trade!!!! Way to go Vin!!!
Absolutely - to trade away 2 guys who never played a minute in the NHL for Dryden who won 6 cups and 5 Vezinas in 8 yrs - I would go so far as to say that this is the best trade in ANY PROFESSIONAL SPORT...
Imagine the Brooklyn Dodgers getting Sandy Koufax via trade and only giving up minor leaguers who never get to the show...
Or the Pittsburgh Steelers getting Rothlesberger not as a draft pick but as a traded player for scrubs...
Chapeau to Sam Pollock! (It was Pollock wasn't it? Is my memory abandoning me?)
|
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 7, 2007 15:27:57 GMT -5
The Roy and Turgeon deals were the absolute worst in my book because nothing came out of it. They were just plain bad tought out trades. The Carbo/Montgomery deal comes in 3rd and the the Ribeiro/Niinima deal comes in 4th.
Among the best deals :
The Turgeon/Muller deal.
The Malakhov/Souray deal.
The Hackett, Weinrich for TBO, Baron
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 7, 2007 19:49:05 GMT -5
DAMN!!! I was just going to post the Dryden trade!!!! Way to go Vin!!! Absolutely - to trade away 2 guys who never played a minute in the NHL for Dryden who won 6 cups and 5 Vezinas in 8 yrs - I would go so far as to say that this is the best trade in ANY PROFESSIONAL SPORT... Imagine the Brooklyn Dodgers getting Sandy Koufax via trade and only giving up minor leaguers who never get to the show... Or the Pittsburgh Steelers getting Rothlesberger not as a draft pick but as a traded player for scrubs... Chapeau to Sam Pollock! (It was Pollock wasn't it? Is my memory abandoning me?) How about Pedro Martinez to the Expos for Delino DeShields to LA straight up? Always liked the Singleton/Foley/Jorgenson for Rusty Staub trade. However, we lost Kenny Singleton to Baltimore for Ernie Macanally (to the Expos) (sp?). It took the team years to recover from that fleecing. Tim Foley eventually became an all star shortstop for the Angels and I'm not sure what happened to Jorgenson, but he was the last to leave I think. Later on we lost Randy Johnson (with two other players) in the Mark Langston trade. Don't have to tell you that Johnson is Cooperstown bound. Ahhh Saki !!! |
|
|
|
Post by insomnius on Jun 11, 2007 5:21:45 GMT -5
Thing is Dis most of the transactions you refer to involve actual major league players - the Dryden trade involved a future hall of famer for 2 players who never even got on NHL ice - in uniform...
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 11, 2007 7:22:40 GMT -5
Thing is Dis most of the transactions you refer to involve actual major league players - the Dryden trade involved a future hall of famer for 2 players who never even got on NHL ice - in uniform... Right you are, insomnius. I'm not sure if Singleton has made it to Cooperstown yet (too lazy to look it up). However, Martinez and Johnson should be there some day. Cheers. |
|
