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Post by Skilly on Apr 19, 2015 22:32:22 GMT -5
Any chance Karlsson gets suspended? Or are we dealing with the typical NHL superstar double standard? he'll be suspended for the same length of time PK was. Subban was effectively suspended for 1 game .... He played less than half the game, which the NHL no doubt took into account.
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Post by 24andcounting on Apr 19, 2015 22:35:32 GMT -5
he'll be suspended for the same length of time PK was. Subban was effectively suspended for 1 game .... He played less than half the game, which the NHL no doubt took into account. I've watched the replay a few times. I don't know how, if it's being called fairly, that Karlsson doesn't deserve supplementary discipline on that.
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Post by blny on Apr 19, 2015 22:35:36 GMT -5
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Post by Skilly on Apr 19, 2015 22:36:14 GMT -5
What we should be asking is will Montreal bring this up to the NHL ... Cause every media outlet is raving about how good a check it was. So why would the NHL look at it , unless Bergevin kicks up a stink. Therrien didn't even mention it, just said it was an upper body injury. If the Habs were going to pursue this, you think he would of said "Nathan received a head shot, what you guys missed that, we sat him as per NHL protocols once we realized"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 22:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by 24andcounting on Apr 19, 2015 22:37:48 GMT -5
What we should be asking is will Montreal bring this up to the NHL ... Cause every media outlet is raving about how good a check it was. So why would the NHL look at it , unless Bergevin kicks up a stink. Therrien didn't even mention it, just said it was an upper body injury. If the Habs were going to pursue this, you think he would of said "Nathan received a head shot, what you guys missed that, we sat him as per NHL protocols once we realized" Agreed. Completely.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 19, 2015 22:38:30 GMT -5
I've yet to see any media ... Sportsnet, TSN, etc, ... Slow it down to show it was actually to the head. I slowed it down. Right in his forehead, and did his head ever snap back
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Post by 24andcounting on Apr 19, 2015 22:39:51 GMT -5
I've yet to see any media ... Sportsnet, TSN, etc, ... Slow it down to show it was actually to the head. I slowed it down. Right in his forehead, and did his head ever snap back I read one summary that indicated it was a hit with principal contact to the head. I'll try to find it. Edit: here it is from TSN, but didn't mention principal contact, just contact: Montreal defenceman Nathan Beaulieu took a shattering, open-ice hit from Karlsson, with contact to the head, in the second frame. He finished the period, but did not return for the third. www.tsn.ca/habs-top-sens-in-ot-for-3-0-series-lead-1.261607
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 22:55:23 GMT -5
The league rarely cares about their young players, ask Gallagher.
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Post by habernac on Apr 19, 2015 23:01:43 GMT -5
If Therrien put Weise on the powerplay instead of stone hands Smith-Pelly, they wouldn't need OT to win.
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 19, 2015 23:02:42 GMT -5
From what I've heard on the TSN690 radio post-game show, there's already been word from the NHL that nothing extra will come from the Karlsson hit.
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Post by blny on Apr 19, 2015 23:19:06 GMT -5
Made me crack up when I saw it on HF. There's a gifs memes thread on the Habs board.
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Post by PTH on Apr 19, 2015 23:21:00 GMT -5
The replays show that, too. Karlsson may be suspended on that hit. I doubt it. TVA has a former NHL ref analyzing key plays and he saw nothing wrong with it; also in his presser MT was asked about it and he said it seemed ok. ---- What a game though. Pacioretty was putrid. Probably our worst forward. He needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Frankly, he took a late hit on his first shift and seemed surprised, it's as if he hasn't adapted to playoff intensity. The non-call on Subban was bad, but after multiple replays, TVA was blaming Smith-Pelley since he could've covered for PK's hit. Personally, I blame Pacioretty - when PK went for the hit, Pacioretty was deep in the slot and well-positionned to cover deep in the zone. DD and Smith-Pelley could've covered as well, though they had ok (DSP) and solid (DD) games for the rest. Beaulieu was probably shaken up from the hit, I'd rather see him back if he's OK, though I've wanted Pateryn in for a while. Emelin, Gilbert and Petry committed a number of turnovers while they rotated partners constantly, which was to be expected. Our PP was iffy in general, but a couple of them generated chances and momentum. I really hope we can take out the Sens in 4 and our guys can get some time off before round #2; hopefully Detroit and TB tire each other out and their series goes 7 games. With a lot of multiple-overtime games. EDIT : and I was truly stunned to see a penalty called on a Gallagher infraction, until now it's felt like he could be beaten, slashed, held, whipped and speared without problem.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 19, 2015 23:31:41 GMT -5
What I didn't like about the Karlsson hit (and I'd definitely be seeking retribution) is that he and Nathan had that scuffle before then. The replay that CBC showed that went back about 5 seconds before the hit. clearly shows Karlsson looking for exactly what happens. He anticipates what to do if Beaulieu gets the puck and then he times it perfectly to hit him just as he receives the puck. And he's a long ways off when you see that sequence start. That's not a good hockey play, that's predatory.
And since the NHL is not going to do anything about it, the team has to. For such a nice guy, that was a very calculated, nasty thing to do. Perhaps you walk into a slapshot with no intention of hitting the net. There may be more creative things that a team can do. Perhaps just threaten to do everything to him and then do nothing. See if you can get him off his game. Whatever, but something that hurts would make me feel better.
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Post by stoat on Apr 19, 2015 23:33:11 GMT -5
It's literally the worst PP I think I've seen since the 1989 team. Horrible. The bruins PP in the 2011 playoffs was something less than 8%. Still don't know how they won the Cup with that. The Bruins shouldn't have gotten out of the first round in 2011. They were evil and lucky. The evil consisted of mugging Pacioretty so that he wouldn't be available (especially in OT). The luck consisted of the injuries to Markov and Gorges that made them unavailable for any of the games. Think about it.
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Post by stoat on Apr 19, 2015 23:43:43 GMT -5
Let's not complain about the injustice to Subban any longer. He's playing and the Habs have won 3 of 3 games. I'm looking forward to eliminating the Senators as payback for 2013. Of course, the Senators are serving as surrogates for all the other teams with a hate for the Habs. Does anyone appreciate: Boast Town is a Ghost Town, with zombies watching their TV screens in the hope that someone--anyone--can stop the Habs?
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Post by Disp on Apr 20, 2015 0:06:43 GMT -5
There will be no suspension. Heard it on the radio.
We'll be able to use the vid as a reference for all the exactly identical hits that are suspension worthy. It'll be fun. (Not really)
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Post by seventeen on Apr 20, 2015 0:27:10 GMT -5
Playoff hockey boys. That's why you have a lot of bodies hanging around. May the most best team win.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 20, 2015 0:29:59 GMT -5
I had to PVR the OT, and was amused when Healy told us Dale Weise was traded for Cameron Diaz. I was disappointed it wasn't Gary Galley, though, spoiling the opportunity to use the line, "There's something about Gary".
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Post by blny on Apr 20, 2015 0:34:50 GMT -5
I don't have a huge problem with the hit. Did he make contact with the head? Yes, but when I examine these plays I'm looking to see if the hitter is leading with an arm out. EK had his arm against his own body, bracing himself for contact. He's not even looking at NB when they actually collide. I have a bigger problem with the pass. It shouldn't have been made.
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 20, 2015 0:58:33 GMT -5
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 20, 2015 2:21:10 GMT -5
I don't have a huge problem with the hit. Did he make contact with the head? Yes, but when I examine these plays I'm looking to see if the hitter is leading with an arm out. EK had his arm against his own body, bracing himself for contact. He's not even looking at NB when they actually collide. I have a bigger problem with the pass. It shouldn't have been made. I'm with you on that hit. The hit that really disturbed me and is clearly suspedable was the cross check to PK's head. How the refs missed it i don't know. But how the league won't suspend for a clear hit to the head of a targeted opponent is ridiculous. As I recall, Cameroon said if you don't suspend pk then we will give him our lumber and we will take the 5 minute major. So that's what they do and the refs don't even call the major. Apparently the league didn't get the Cameroon memo we all did. That was a goon hit. Sens in desperation threw everything at us (bodies, pucks, and cross checks) in the first but could only manage a 1 goal lead. Karlsen had most hits ever in his career. They could not keep up that pace and sure enough we took over the game in the last 2 periods. Some good and lucky saves by andersen. Don't think anyone doubts who the better team is. Sorry for Beau but he's not the guy for this series. Lots of better options.
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Post by habsask on Apr 20, 2015 4:53:29 GMT -5
Whether or not Karlsson's hit was within the rules Beaulieu should now understand that in the NHL you need to keep your head up at all times. The game is much faster & so the hits tougher at the NHL level.
I am not defending Karlsson & I am a big fan of cracking down on unnecessary violence in the game but I would be shocked if there was any follow on disciplinary action by the NHL. If they didn't care enough to do something when Crosby was out for a prolonged time due to a concussion they sure aren't going to do something when a relative unknown like Beaulieu gets hurt. A real shame.
Two other comments 1) IMO it was a sucker pass & 2) given the extreme physicality of the game & Karlsson taking a lead in that Beaulieu should have been expecting contact, a very good reason to be keeping your head up. I wouldn't expect him to make the same mistake again.
As for the hit being outside the rules, even if it was this kind of stuff happens all the time in the NHL these days so the message for a player is whatever the rules say you can't rely on them to prevent these types of hits- you got to be aware.
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Post by franko on Apr 20, 2015 6:14:23 GMT -5
yup yup and yup. maybe call the hit questionable, but keep your head up, lad . . . and would we complain if PK took the opportunity to nail someone on a gift like that? I think not. predatory? more like opportunistic. very sad days in O-Town . . .
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 20, 2015 6:49:08 GMT -5
I don't have a huge problem with the hit. Did he make contact with the head? Yes, but when I examine these plays I'm looking to see if the hitter is leading with an arm out. EK had his arm against his own body, bracing himself for contact. He's not even looking at NB when they actually collide. I have a bigger problem with the pass. It shouldn't have been made. I'm with you on that hit. The hit that really disturbed me and is clearly suspedable was the cross check to PK's head. How the refs missed it i don't know. But how the league won't suspend for a clear hit to the head of a targeted opponent is ridiculous. As I recall, Cameroon said if you don't suspend pk then we will give him our lumber and we will take the 5 minute major. So that's what they do and the refs don't even call the major. Apparently the league didn't get the Cameroon memo we all did. That was a goon hit. How about sending this to the league
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Post by jkr on Apr 20, 2015 6:57:20 GMT -5
I had to PVR the OT, and was amused when Healy told us Dale Weise was traded for Cameron Diaz. I was disappointed it wasn't Gary Galley, though, spoiling the opportunity to use the line, "There's something about Gary". I heard that too. If Bergevin did, indeed, trade Cameron Diaz I am really PO'd.
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Post by Gogie on Apr 20, 2015 6:58:02 GMT -5
Is there a list somewhere of what is and isn't reviewable (i.e., regulations that go along with the official rules)? There's nothing specific in the rule itself about it. Not saying you're not right, Skilly, just saying I looked high and low in the NHL rule book but couldn't find anything definitive. In fact, I would argue that the way the rule is currently written, everything is reviewable with respect to determining if a goal is a "good goal". 38.4 Situations Subject to Video Review - The following situations are subject to review by the Video Goal Judge: (i) Puck crossing the goal line. (ii) Puck in the net prior to the goal frame being dislodged. (iii) Puck in the net prior to, or after expiration of time at the end of the period. (iv) Puck directed or batted into the net by a hand or foot or deliberately batted with any part of the attacking player’s body. With the use of a foot/skate, was a distinct kicking motion evident? If so, the apparent goal must be disallowed. A DISTINCT KICKING MOTION is one which the player propels the puck with his skate into the net. If the Video Goal Judge / League Office Video Room determines that it was put into the net by an attacking player using a distinct kicking motion, it must be ruled NO GOAL. This would also be true even if the puck, after being kicked, deflects off any other player of either team and then into the net. This is still NO GOAL. However, a puck that enters the goal after deflecting off an attacking player’s skate or that deflects off his skate while he is in the process of stopping, shall be ruled a good goal. See also 49.2. (v) Puck deflected directly into the net off an Official. (vi) Puck struck with a high-stick, above the height of the crossbar, by an attacking player prior to entering the goal. The determining factor is where the puck makes contact with the stick in relation to the crossbar. If the puck makes contact with the portion of the stick that is at or below the level of the crossbar and enters the goal, this goal shall be allowed. (vii) To establish the correct time on the official game clock, provided the game time is visible on the Video Goal Judge’s monitors. (viii) The video review process shall be permitted to assist the Referees in determining the legitimacy of all potential goals (e.g. to ensure they are “good hockey goals”). For example (but not limited to), pucks that enter the net by going through the net meshing, pucks that enter the net from underneath the net frame, pucks that hit the spectator netting prior to being directed into the goal, pucks that enter the net undetected by the Referee, etc. This would also include situations whereby the Referee stops play or is in the process of stopping the play because he has lost sight of the puck and it is subsequently determined by video review that the puck crosses (or has crossed) the goal line and enters the net as the culmination of a continuous play where the result was unaffected by the whistle (i.e., the timing of the whistle was irrelevant to the puck entering the net at the end of a continuous play). Sorry to prolong this discussion, Skilly, but I think the part I've highlighted above introduces ambiguity in determining what is or isn't reviewable. 38.4 (viii) refers to the video review process being permitted to ensure all potential goals are "good hockey goals" (parenthesis is in the rule book). The problem I have is that there is no definition in the rule book as to what is meant by "good hockey goals" so in fact one could interpret the rule to mean every potential goal is reviewable without limit to what is being reviewed. I'm not the only person who has this view, either. Here's a quote from SB Nation: The current rule as written means that literally anything involving a goal can be reviewed. When people, including the NHL and yours truly, say that "the play is not reviewable" on plays like the Matt Duchene offsides goal or the Niklas Kronwall net-gate, it shows that no one really knows what's in the rulebook. Either the practice needs to change to reflect what's actually written, or the wording of the rule needs to change to clarify what's reviewable and what's not because obviously video review is not being used to determine the legitimacy of "all" potential goals.The full article can be found here: Getting to Know the NHL Rulebook: Video Goal Judge
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 20, 2015 7:11:52 GMT -5
What I didn't like about the Karlsson hit (and I'd definitely be seeking retribution) is that he and Nathan had that scuffle before then. The replay that CBC showed that went back about 5 seconds before the hit. clearly shows Karlsson looking for exactly what happens. He anticipates what to do if Beaulieu gets the puck and then he times it perfectly to hit him just as he receives the puck. And he's a long ways off when you see that sequence start. That's not a good hockey play, that's predatory. And since the NHL is not going to do anything about it, the team has to. For such a nice guy, that was a very calculated, nasty thing to do. Perhaps you walk into a slapshot with no intention of hitting the net. There may be more creative things that a team can do. Perhaps just threaten to do everything to him and then do nothing. See if you can get him off his game. Whatever, but something that hurts would make me feel better. Thought it was Karlsson's best game as a Senator ... certainly his best game as captain ... thought it was a head shot the first time I saw it ... I felt Karlsson got preferential treatment on that hit ... now, had it been PK dishing it out I suspect there would have been a different form of preferential treatment ... just the same, if we thought they put the whistles away for this one just wait for Game 4 ... Cheers.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 20, 2015 7:19:49 GMT -5
Random thoughts, because whenever I try to put paragraphs together it ends up being a novella. And not a good novella with lots of sword fighting and gratuitous sex, but kind of a rambling, boring one, that starts off with one plot and ends up with quite another by the time it's finished. * Dale Weise. Corsi be damned. * Poor Torrey Mitchell, lost in the Weise love-in. Two assists, 53% in faceoffs, killed some penalties. Where does Bergy find these guys? * No way Karlsson gets suspended. No way. * Who would have thought that Pacioretty would be the WORST player on his line? Is it just me, or does he look lost out there, like he's still in some sort of fog? I hope they finish the Sens off and then get a week's worth of rest, because I'm not sure the cob-webs are completely gone from his head. Heck, I may even consider sitting him for Game 4, just for his own safety. If he's even just a little bit off, or slow, he could get killed out there. * I thought Desharnais had an outstanding game. The kind of game he sometimes pulls out against Chara and the like, where he's just too small for them to get a hand on. How may times did he actually outwork Senator defenders behind their net and come out with the puck?? That's got to be embarrassing for them. * I was hoping Beaulieu was just benched, and not concussed. Because if he was just benched then that would have been a great learning opportunity for him, and a great confidence booster, to be back in the lineup for Game 4. Sort of a "you don't have it tonight, but we still believe in you" kind of thing. Plus, being up 3-0 you can take a chance like that. But being concussed... not good. * I think Sergie Gonchar draws back in. Pateryn might be better, but of course he's a righty, and I don't want Gilbert moving over to his wrong side. Or Pateryn for that matter. So Gonchar comes in for stability. Don't get me wrong, a Gonchar-Gilbert pairing is not my dream pairing, but we are talking about your 5th and 6th guys here. * I hope the Senators just roll over and die. I don't want this series going on any longer. Yeah, we might be a little rusty in the first period of the next series if we end up having a week and a half off or something, but I'll take it. Guys like Pacioretty, Markov and even Price could use it. * Having said that, three games is not four, and coming back from 3-0 seems to be happening more and more. Finish them please.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 20, 2015 7:29:06 GMT -5
The league rarely cares about their young players, ask Gallagher. They sure don't care about Subban ... Cheers.
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