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Post by BadCompany on Jun 30, 2015 6:47:15 GMT -5
Michal Frolik and Matt Beleskey are the two "big" names allegedly being tied to Montreal. Both were 20 goal scorers last year (slightly above). Frolik has a history of doing so, Beleskey does not. Frolik is probably a better two-way player, whereas Beleskey is more physical. Both are rumoured to want $5 million a year. Given the weak free agency crop this year they might think they can cash in, but on the other hand some of the traditional big spenders are tight up against the cap this off-season.
Neither one of them really floats my boat. I think they can be useful players - Eller with Frolik might work - but not at their rumoured asking prices.
I actually wouldn't be very surprised if Bergevin signs another 4th liner, like Steve Bernier or something. Now before the howls of protest really take off, hear me out. Right now, we have a fourth line of Mitchell, Prust and Weise. Which is a pretty good fourth line. But what happens once there are injuries? Mitchell, in particular, has been injury prone over the course of his career, and Prust is reaching that point in his life when the body starts to fall behind the heart. We have Brian Flynn waiting in the wings, and perhaps Michael Bournival, but Bournival is coming off a serious concussion so who knows where his head will be at, no pun intended. After that? Well, we're into Andrighetto, Thomas, Scherbak and McCarron. Maybe Carr or Hudon. Which is fine, those guys will probably warrant a call-up during the year. But should they play on the fourth line? Our only real fourth line type call-up is Dumont. If you want back ups for certain types of players, then we're actually short on 4th liners.
So I'm quite serious when I say that I could see Bergevin signing somebody like Bernier, if not Bernier himself. Somebody that can play the fourth line without too much trouble.
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 6:59:48 GMT -5
Read a 'review' from a Jets fan on HF. According to him, Frolik never takes a shift off, is a possession/advanced stat 'dream'. I think you're right that he'd likely work very well with Eller. He might work well with Pleks too. I don't know if he kills penalties.
Beleskey scares the crap out of me. IMO, he's this year's Bickell, and whoever signs him will likely rue the day. Beleskey turned down the 4 year $4 million per offer from Anaheim.
If the price if $5 million a year for either, walk away. I'd pay Frolik $4 million. We're paying Eller $3.5 million, and Frolik has more offense in his game.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 7:19:33 GMT -5
Heard a bit of discussion on these guys on AM690 this morning ... if it were up to me I'd stay away from both players ... all Marc Bergevin would be doing is taking on another Danny Briere/PA Parenteau scenario and he had tough time getting rid of the present one ... if there isn't a player who impresses at camp then try to make a hockey trade for someone who is under contract ... just stay away from Michal Frolik and Matt Beleskey ... neither one will put us over the top ...
Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 8:14:46 GMT -5
I actually wouldn't be very surprised if Bergevin signs another 4th liner, like ... RW, Chris Stewart ... he's a stronger version of Dale Weise and like Weise he can fill in just about anywhere in a pinch ... he has good wheels and he's a finisher around the net ... he has a laziness tag, sure, but I think a 1-year deal wouldn't hurt the club ... they could also ask about Eric Fehr ... he's listed as C/RW depending on which source you use ... I'd also ask the Drew Stafford(RW) camp what they're asking for ... his name has bounced around our discussions here and there over the last two years ... all of these guys play RW and probably have 'for sale' stickers on their asking prices ... the only problem I foresee is if one or all of them want term contracts ... I'd see about a 1-year deal in each case and it would give our prospects a bit more development time and leave Marc Bergevin some cap space for March ... that's just me, though ... Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Jun 30, 2015 9:18:25 GMT -5
I too would stay away from Frolik and Beleskey. As much as I want offense, the only reason Bergevin would sign either is because he is afraid to touch the roster in a trade. By now, he should know who is expendable from that roster. There are deals to be made that don't involve our core.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 9:23:40 GMT -5
I too would stay away from Frolik and Beleskey. As much as I want offense, the only reason Bergevin would sign either is because he is afraid to touch the roster in a trade. By now, he should know who is expendable from that roster. There are deals to be made that don't involve our core. I could see bringing in a guy like Michael Frolik the same way le Club brought in Robert Lang a few years back ... a good support player to have, but definitely not as a go-to guy ... Cheers.
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Post by franko on Jun 30, 2015 9:30:20 GMT -5
I don't understand the talk about the need to go out and get a goal scorer. seriously.
look at our coach's philosophy: it is JM-like (though not to that degree). defend first, score if and when necessary. MT does not want to win 5-4 or 5-3 games; he is content with a 2-1 game (at least he isn't content with a 1-0 game; at least I don't think he is).
no, a goal scorer is not wanted in Montreal . . . wake up and smell the hockey socks! stop dreaming
[/rant]
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 30, 2015 9:37:25 GMT -5
I too would stay away from Frolik and Beleskey. As much as I want offense, the only reason Bergevin would sign either is because he is afraid to touch the roster in a trade. By now, he should know who is expendable from that roster. There are deals to be made that don't involve our core. If he signed either of those guys, the Berg would be forced to make a hockey trade or two...just to dump salary.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 30, 2015 9:46:11 GMT -5
I too would stay away from Frolik and Beleskey. As much as I want offense, the only reason Bergevin would sign either is because he is afraid to touch the roster in a trade. By now, he should know who is expendable from that roster. There are deals to be made that don't involve our core. I agree with that. I'm just nervous about signing another $4-5 million player. We seem to have bad luck in that price range. Cheap enough to be tempting but ultimately too expensive for what you get on the ice. Berg has to have strong conviction that Frolik's game would be perfect for our system and our coach and 20 goals and 40 points is a no-brainer. But we thought the same thing about Briere...and Parenteau.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 30, 2015 9:49:38 GMT -5
Michal Frolik and Matt Beleskey are the two "big" names allegedly being tied to Montreal. Both were 20 goal scorers last year (slightly above). Frolik has a history of doing so, Beleskey does not. Frolik is probably a better two-way player, whereas Beleskey is more physical. Both are rumoured to want $5 million a year. Given the weak free agency crop this year they might think they can cash in, but on the other hand some of the traditional big spenders are tight up against the cap this off-season. Neither one of them really floats my boat. I think they can be useful players - Eller with Frolik might work - but not at their rumoured asking prices. I actually wouldn't be very surprised if Bergevin signs another 4th liner, like Steve Bernier or something. Now before the howls of protest really take off, hear me out. Right now, we have a fourth line of Mitchell, Prust and Weise. Which is a pretty good fourth line. But what happens once there are injuries? Mitchell, in particular, has been injury prone over the course of his career, and Prust is reaching that point in his life when the body starts to fall behind the heart. We have Brian Flynn waiting in the wings, and perhaps Michael Bournival, but Bournival is coming off a serious concussion so who knows where his head will be at, no pun intended. After that? Well, we're into Andrighetto, Thomas, Scherbak and McCarron. Maybe Carr or Hudon. Which is fine, those guys will probably warrant a call-up during the year. But should they play on the fourth line? Our only real fourth line type call-up is Dumont. If you want back ups for certain types of players, then we're actually short on 4th liners. So I'm quite serious when I say that I could see Bergevin signing somebody like Bernier, if not Bernier himself. Somebody that can play the fourth line without too much trouble. We don't necessarily have a lot of true fourth liners in the pipeline, but MT does tend to slot call-ups in that roster spot regardless of their skill set or favoured style of play. MT prefers placing trustworthy guys like Prust or Weise into those top six roles rather than taking a chance on a kid with those top six minutes. It is a "safer" (or totally risk-adverse) strategy, but it is what our coach prefers. That is why the Berg's comment about leaving PAP's roster spot open for some prospect to compete for it at camp could be misleading, as that spot would likely not be granted to a prospect right away.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 10:13:11 GMT -5
Qualifying offers (Canadiens.com)
Tuesday, 06.30.2015 / 9:00 AM ET
MONTREAL – The Montreal Canadiens have made qualifying offers to restricted free agents Michael Bournival, Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi, Brian Flynn, Christian Thomas and Magnus Nygren. Forwards Drayson Bowman and Eric Tangradi, meanwhile, were not made offers and will become unrestricted free agents on July 1.
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 10:15:05 GMT -5
I do think Frolik would be the type of player that MT likes, and Berg knows him from their days in Chicago. But, cap space would need to be cleared.
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 10:16:08 GMT -5
Qualifying offers (Canadiens.com)
Tuesday, 06.30.2015 / 9:00 AM ET
MONTREAL – The Montreal Canadiens have made qualifying offers to restricted free agents Michael Bournival, Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi, Brian Flynn, Christian Thomas and Magnus Nygren. Forwards Drayson Bowman and Eric Tangradi, meanwhile, were not made offers and will become unrestricted free agents on July 1. No real surprises there.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 10:27:05 GMT -5
I do think Frolik would be the type of player that MT likes, and Berg knows him from their days in Chicago. But, cap space would need to be cleared. Might facilitate the hockey trade a few of us were discussing ... there was a " Tomas Plekanec-has-been-traded" rumour that went viral just a few weeks ago and going with that, I was grateful for was that no one (hopefully I saw that) posted Eklund's latest that said the Habs were ready to extend Pleks ... I think there might be something going down, more so when you look at just how much cap space Marc Bergevin will have when all is said and done ... I don't know who he has in mind, but he likes having a certain amount of cap room ... Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 10:29:30 GMT -5
Extended Pleks would be a mistake.
I like having the space made before a signing. You're dealing from a position of strength then. If berg signs someone, and then has to clear space, other teams will perceive themselves as doing him a favor and offer less as a result.
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 30, 2015 10:41:46 GMT -5
Extended Pleks would be a mistake. I like having the space made before a signing. You're dealing from a position of strength then. If berg signs someone, and then has to clear space, other teams will perceive themselves as doing him a favor and offer less as a result. Suppose Pleks wants to finish his career in Mtl (one team all career, maybe hoist Stanley) and is prepared to extend for another 4 years at $3 or $3.5. I d take him over any of the current FAs who are probably looking for $4+ and are all a bit of a crap shoot. Another way of saying i would not be dumping Pleks to pick up any of these FAs. Pleks should be used as trade bait with some of our prospects.
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 10:47:57 GMT -5
Extended Pleks would be a mistake. I like having the space made before a signing. You're dealing from a position of strength then. If berg signs someone, and then has to clear space, other teams will perceive themselves as doing him a favor and offer less as a result. Suppose Pleks wants to finish his career in Mtl (one team all career, maybe hoist Stanley) and is prepared to extend for another 4 years at $3 or $3.5. I d take him over any of the current FAs who are probably looking for $4+ and are all a bit of a crap shoot. Another way of saying i would not be dumping Pleks to pick up any of these FAs. Pleks should be used as trade bait with some of our prospects. I'll clarify. Extending him now is a mistake. He's not the type to up and jump ship, so there shouldn't be pressure to extend for that reason. Second, it would have to be clarified and agreed on what his role would be going beyond the coming season. Ideally, it would be 3rd line with a salary befitting. Then, you have to make hard decisions about DD and Eller (or maybe they're easy). Then, get that #1 and put Galch right behind them at #2. All that said, I am prepared to let him go. I think we can PK by committee without him. If Eller continues to drive possession and win faceoffs, he's fine at #3.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2015 12:11:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't cheer a Frolik signing. He's been a .5 ppg player through his career except when he played in Chicago where he wouldn't have been in the top 6. Do we need another .5 ppg player in our top 6? Gallagher is scoring slightly higher than that, for comparison purposes, and while I love Gally's game, he's not a #1 winger. Now if Frolik signs for $1.5MM, I'd say sure, we can tolerate .5 ppg at that price, even if he's not really a top 6 forward. Not much chance of that happening.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 12:22:06 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2015 12:31:25 GMT -5
There's your 4th line depth, BC. Two years at $950K per.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 30, 2015 12:55:08 GMT -5
I'll delete the thread I created on the Flynn signing. Habs sign FlynnThe above article states "The Canadiens now have $6,641,667 in cap space to sign Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi, Michael Bournival, and Christian Thomas."
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Post by Polarice on Jun 30, 2015 12:56:11 GMT -5
As for the UFA's out there, I don't see any that could improve our team....everything would be just a sideways move. The only way to address the top 6 is going to have to be done through trades.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 30, 2015 13:04:42 GMT -5
If Martin St-Louis or Semin or Hodgson could be had on a one year cheap deal (ex: 2 million), I would consider it. The Blackhawks did the same thing with Richards and that turned out okay for them.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 13:08:47 GMT -5
I'll delete the thread I created on the Flynn signing. Habs sign FlynnThe above article states "The Canadiens now have $6,641,667 in cap space to sign Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi, Michael Bournival, and Christian Thomas." Didn't see your thread, WD, or else I would have replied to it ... I doubt it's enough to sign them all ... Marc Bergevin has to find more cap space ... Cheers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 30, 2015 13:23:00 GMT -5
I'll delete the thread I created on the Flynn signing. Habs sign FlynnThe above article states "The Canadiens now have $6,641,667 in cap space to sign Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi, Michael Bournival, and Christian Thomas." The Habs are at 20 roster players. They have $6.6M to sign three guys: Chucky, Tinordi and whomever. Bournival and Thomas will almost likely be re-signed, but sent to Hamilton.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 30, 2015 13:27:51 GMT -5
If Martin St-Louis or Semin or Hodgson could be had on a one year cheap deal (ex: 2 million), I would consider it. The Blackhawks did the same thing with Richards and that turned out okay for them. Somebody else is going to overpay either in terms of money or term, so getting a sweetheart deal tomorrow is likely going to be hard. If some guys are left after the dust settles tomorrow, there may be deals to be had.
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 13:37:23 GMT -5
950k per for Flynn is a little more than I would have liked, but 200k isn't huge in the grand scheme.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2015 13:53:20 GMT -5
If Martin St-Louis or Semin or Hodgson could be had on a one year cheap deal (ex: 2 million), I would consider it. The Blackhawks did the same thing with Richards and that turned out okay for them. Somebody else is going to overpay either in terms of money or term, so getting a sweetheart deal tomorrow is likely going to be hard. If some guys are left after the dust settles tomorrow, there may be deals to be had. Maybe wait until he makes his training camp evaluations then go from there ... I still think he needs to free up the cap space ... Cheers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 30, 2015 14:07:32 GMT -5
Somebody else is going to overpay either in terms of money or term, so getting a sweetheart deal tomorrow is likely going to be hard. If some guys are left after the dust settles tomorrow, there may be deals to be had. Maybe wait until he makes his training camp evaluations then go from there ... I still think he needs to free up the cap space ... Cheers. There are a lot of newly minted UFAs from the RFAs that were not qualified. A number of those and others should be around for a while. I expect you can fill out your roster on the cheap in September, it is a matter of whether that buys you a better option than giving a kid like Andrighetto, Hudon or someone else a fair shot at a roster spot. There should be gross overpayment for the top tier tomorrow, given it is not a great top tier. There will be a few others signed within the next few days, as teams are able to negotiate better deals with guys who were first passed over who want to get their deals done early. The aisles will be full for the rest of the bargain shoppers to fill out rosters in the fall. I still think the Berg will sign a few guys to fill out their AHL team with some more experience. It is still a very, very young team and there are a lot of first time pros coming in this fall (Scherbak, McCarron, Fucale, Gregoire, Lernout, Bozon, and MacMillan).
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2015 15:09:20 GMT -5
I'd move what it took to sign a guy like Frolik, tweener or not, before signing a Chris Stewart. I think our bottom six is fine. Frolik, even if he only produced at the 42ish point clip he has, would have more impact. Bottom line, it depends on where the bidding for him goes. At $4 million, he would live up to it I think. Any more than that, and it's too much.
We'd all love a hockey trade that clearly addresses the need in the top 6. Not too many teams willingly trading goals out of their line ups.
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