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Post by CentreHice on May 19, 2015 18:19:45 GMT -5
It's clear that some members think Galchenyuk is being handled appropriately, while others have questions and concerns.
While it's certainly okay to outline and explain each stance....the debate is starting to break down. It appears there's going to be no swaying of opinion.
Nothing's going to change over the summer....so time to agree to disagree on this issue and wait to see what happens.
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Post by Skilly on May 19, 2015 18:20:47 GMT -5
My math is spot on .... There are 18 playing positions. Crosby averages about 100 points a year. That's 1800 points. He will get 2 assists for every goal, so that's 600 goals.
Anyway, I'm done with this ...
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Post by Disp on May 19, 2015 19:12:00 GMT -5
Parenteau @ ~15 minutes = 4 lines = 12 forwards x average goal total per 82 Crosby @ ~ 20 minutes = 3 lines = 9 forwards x average goal total per 82
They both should probably have slightly higher minutes, close enough for magical stats land.
Crosby doesn't play d though, even in magical stats land.
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Post by frozone on May 19, 2015 21:12:03 GMT -5
Imo, this whole center vs wing this is a bit overblown. I say that because I truly believe he will blossom no matter what - the only question being "in what position?" I always had my doubts that he would become an NHL centerman. He was originally a winger, and then was converted to center in Sarnia for part of his rookie year (I believe he spent most of that year at C, but not all of it). The following year was his injury year and draft eligible year. The year after that, the lockout year, he was moved back to the wing by Coach Beaulieu, a critical point in Gal's development imo. I think he even played wing at the WJC, iirc. And now, ever since the lockout ended, he has played almost exclusively on the wing. If Bergevin had said on Draft Day that Galchenyuk excelled at both centre and wing, and that they'd see where he'd fit best on the Habs, then the issue would be overblown. But what else are the media and fan base supposed to take from the conversation below? The expectation that he would assume the top centre position was expressed by our brain trust. Zero mention of being a winger. ===================================== DUTHIE: Everyone's talked about your need for a big centre. Is this the guy you can build around? BERGEVIN: Definitely! That's the guy we're focussing from Day 1 since I took over, and we were glad that he was there at 3. DUTHIE: So what is it about him that separated him from the rest of the field, in your eyes? BERGEVIN: I mean, he's a big centre, and they don't come by (very often)…and then when you do, you either draft them…..you can't really trade for one because, for one, they're not available….so…. down the middle for me, has to be a strength…and he fits the bill!======================================== If Galchenyuk goes on to perform as a top-flight power winger....I'm all for it. Bergevin didn't completely shut the "Chucky-at-centre" door at last week's presser...but added that it didn't look good at the moment. Maybe overblown was the wrong word... Let's say it should have been avoided in the first place. And yes, Habs management is to blame for getting everyone's hopes up. Although I'm sure they did not know that he was going to be moved back to the wing in Junior. Galchenyuk really has not played much center at all, period. Prior to the NHL draft, he played essentially only 1 season at center, as far as I can tell. It just so happens that much of his center experience came in his "draft year" (in reality, the season before his injury). I'm sure Canadiens management were projecting him as a center - it was after all the position that he was playing at the time that he was drafted. But the following year in Sarnia, he was moved back to the wing by the coach. Imo, that was the time for Habs management to step in if they really wanted him to develop into a center, but I guess they didn't (or couldn't) force that. Imo, the next best opportunity to convert him to center was this season, right out of training camp. He was ready. He was confident. But unfortunately, we already had our #1 center, DD. I should probably cite some references... just to show that Sarnia drafted him from midget as a winger. These articles were written around the time that he was drafted to the OHL. The 3rd link calls him a winger but says that he can play all 3 forward positions, so I'm assuming he had at least played a few games at C in midget and/or beforehand. willsportsgroup.com/?p=1079www.chillerinstinct.com/interviews/view.php?ARTICLE_ID=19195CAD-156C-4814-82B5-A466CD5D335Awww.sarniasting.com/article/sting-announce-alex-galchenyuk-as-1st-pick
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Post by CentreHice on May 19, 2015 22:46:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the links, frozone!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 23:42:28 GMT -5
Well, hey, don't you think if the players thought it was some huge injustice to not have Chucky at center they'd have had a problem with it? Certainly wouldn't have made guys buy in if they thought the coach wasn't doing the right thing. Weird that it didn't play out that way. I'm betting just the opposite, I bet the guys didn't like the extra work they had to when he played center. The d probably didn't like that he wasn't good down low, and his wingers didn't like covering for him. Like I said, small sample size and not sustainable. I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier. Do you think Chucky looks strong? Do you think he shows very good defensive awareness? Eye test. Be honest. I do indeed. I saw all the games he played center. I'm wondering if you did though Curious, because I'm too busy to stats hunt. How many minutes did this reliable centre play on the pk? I know that Mr. DeLaRose played a lot of pk as a younger player. Mr Chucky is not a two way centre out of junior, and is a long ways from being a dependable center to lean on heavy minutes. i trust that Mr Bergeron has a little better grasp of the subject than I, but he seems to agree.
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Post by BadCompany on May 20, 2015 8:18:09 GMT -5
Does anybody think that the lack of a captain might push Bergevin one way or the other?
I think we can all agree that the next captain will probably be one of Subban, Pacioretty or Gallagher (long shot in my opinion). I think that we can also agree that the "old guard" is represented by Markov and Plekanec. Now Markov may, but probably won't, be offended if he is not named captain. I can't say for sure, but circumstantially anyways I think most people believe he would get over it relatively quickly, if he's bothered by it at all.
But Plekanec? Will Plekanec take it badly? I'm not sure he really wants to be captain… but by the same token I don't think he's going to want to be asked a million times about why he isn't captain either. Seeing as he only has one year left on his contract could him not being named captain be interpreted as a sign that the team doesn't plan on signing him again? Or if they do sign him, to say a five year deal, is he going to want to be in the room with whoever was chosen ahead of him? Will he take THAT as a slap in the face? "You've been with the organization your whole career, you've been a solid soldier who never complained about his terrible linemates, you wore an 'A', you've never been involved in any serious controversy, and while we want to sign you long term and have you finish your career here, we don't think you're a very good leader and we're going to give the 'C' to somebody we think can lead us to the Cup."
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 20, 2015 8:26:22 GMT -5
Does anybody think that the lack of a captain might push Bergevin one way or the other? I think we can all agree that the next captain will probably be ... Gallagher (long shot in my opinion). BC, I don't have the link in front of me, but I'll look it up later when I have more time to slack off at work, but Brendan Gallagher has a lot of support from Habs fans ... I think the poll I was looking at yesterday had Max Pacioretty as No.1 with Gallagher a fair ways back ... Gallagher is super-young, but he is a leader, there's no doubting that ... IMO, I think Pacioretty has done enough to warrant the appointment ... I was in PK Subban's corner for the longest time, but I just feel Max might be a better choice at this point in time ... that poll might have been on Twitter, actually ... will look that up later ... edit: to answer your question, I think Marc Bergevin will probably select someone who has longevity with the club and, more specifically, someone who represents the 'New Guard' ... I'll qualify that by pointing out that, he let Brian Gionta and Josh Gorges go so as to promote the 'changing of the Guard' so to speak ... I could be wrong, but I just don't see Markov or Plekanec receiving the "C" ... if one of them does receive the appointment, then there was no reason to moving Gionta and Gorges out ... Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on May 20, 2015 8:26:54 GMT -5
Here are Bergevin's full remarks from his presser, courtesy of Hockey Inside OutGalchenyuk on the wing was/is up to Michel Therrien. Can we close the book on this one, please? ====================================================================== On Alex Galchenyuk: “Just so you know, halfway through his last junior year in Sarnia he was moved to the wing. He’s comfortable on the wing. As we speak today he’s not a full-time centreman. Will he be? Time will tell. Right now, he’s more comfortable on the wing. At the end of the day, I can’t tell you when or if he’ll be a centreman.
“At the end of the day, (Galchenyuk) may never be a centreman. Right now it doesn’t look like he ever will be. He might be, he could be, but I don’t want to just focus on him. … Playing centre in the NHL is not that easy, when he was playing (junior in) Sarnia, they put him on the wing. So maybe they saw something that we saw.
“Our goal is to win hockey games every night and if Michel Therrien says that the best place for (Galchenyuk) to help the team win is at wing, then that’s where he’s going to play.“====================================================================== Considering what Bergevin said on Draft Day 2012, he's certainly singing a different tune now. All of sudden, the "he played wing in Sarnia" card is being tabled…when it was absolutely nowhere in sight when Galchenyuk was selected. He must be really disappointed….but I understand that a GM can't express it publicly. He's basically suggesting that Sarnia perhaps had it right, and that the Habs never should've expected him to be that big stud centre. He's still very young….and hopefully he develops the scoring prowess at whichever position he plays. Nothing wrong with selecting a high-scoring winger at #3.
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Post by frozone on May 20, 2015 12:18:25 GMT -5
He must be really disappointed….but I understand that a GM can't express it publicly. He's basically suggesting that Sarnia perhaps had it right, and that the Habs never should've expected him to be that big stud centre. He's still very young….and hopefully he develops the scoring prowess at whichever position he plays. Nothing wrong with selecting a high-scoring winger at #3. I think this summary nails it. There's probably no one more disappointed than MB himself. Does anybody think that the lack of a captain might push Bergevin one way or the other? I think we can all agree that the next captain will probably be one of Subban, Pacioretty or Gallagher (long shot in my opinion). I think that we can also agree that the "old guard" is represented by Markov and Plekanec. Now Markov may, but probably won't, be offended if he is not named captain. I can't say for sure, but circumstantially anyways I think most people believe he would get over it relatively quickly, if he's bothered by it at all. But Plekanec? Will Plekanec take it badly? I'm not sure he really wants to be captain… but by the same token I don't think he's going to want to be asked a million times about why he isn't captain either. Seeing as he only has one year left on his contract could him not being named captain be interpreted as a sign that the team doesn't plan on signing him again? Or if they do sign him, to say a five year deal, is he going to want to be in the room with whoever was chosen ahead of him? Will he take THAT as a slap in the face? "You've been with the organization your whole career, you've been a solid soldier who never complained about his terrible linemates, you wore an 'A', you've never been involved in any serious controversy, and while we want to sign you long term and have you finish your career here, we don't think you're a very good leader and we're going to give the 'C' to somebody we think can lead us to the Cup." The captaincy will be interesting. I remember after last year's playoffs victory against Boston, I thought Markov was the right choice for next Captain. He stepped up and his hit against Lucic was a hit that a Captain would make. But just one year later, it looked like he lost 10 steps. If regulating his regular season minutes can reboot his playoffs performance, then I think he's still the guy. As for Plekanec, he just never has seemed to be the leader type. I think that he gets a bad rap, though. He scored 60 points this season as a second line center who gets serious defensive assignments! In a year where scoring was WAY down, how much more should we have expected from him? He outscored our #1 center by a fair margin. I will concede, in the Playoffs he had a couple mistakes that led to goals, but his line was regularly winning their matchups. I think his style of play doesn't really endear himself to fans. He just isn't the type of center that will get involved along the boards. Plekanec tends to hang back, ready to to defend if the other team counter attacks. He's also good as a counter attacker. He's not especially creative, and he is not a grinder. If I were MT, I would play him as a #3 C in the playoffs. Give him a more defensive role and let him use his counter attacking skills. He's not captain material, but unless we can get someone to overpay, moving him doesn't make the team better imo.
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Post by Skilly on May 20, 2015 15:41:16 GMT -5
I do indeed. I saw all the games he played center. I'm wondering if you did though Curious, because I'm too busy to stats hunt. How many minutes did this reliable centre play on the pk? I know that Mr. DeLaRose played a lot of pk as a younger player. Mr Chucky is not a two way centre out of junior, and is a long ways from being a dependable center to lean on heavy minutes. i trust that Mr Bergeron has a little better grasp of the subject than I, but he seems to agree. I have no idea where you are going with this .... But I will offer up this. Galchenyuk played 4 mins 58 seconds on the Penalty kill ALL year. So does this mean he can't play centre? Before you answer, consider our #1 centre, David Desharnais played 2 mins 24 seconds on the penalty kill all year. Coach Jacques Beaulieu has used Galchenyuk in every situation this season and his increasing confidence is becoming a dangerous weapon. On the penalty kill, Galchenyuk has shown great positioning, good anticipation, a tricky stick and a willingness to block shots helping the team win games and produce one of the OHL’s top penalty killing units (5th – 83.8%). Moreover, the Sarnia Sting have the third ranked power play unit (26.4%) and Galchenyuk’s seven power play goals and 11 power play assists have been a big factor in that success.Can we please stop this Galchenyuk needs to be shielded talk .... We drafted a gem. We drafted a guy who can do everything we ever hoped for. But he needs to be set loose. Our problem lies in personnel , not in Galchenyuk's skills or comfortable level. Ok, NOW I'm done with this GALCHENYUK PRIMED FOR WJHC DOMINANCE
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Post by franko on May 20, 2015 16:40:49 GMT -5
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Post by BadCompany on May 22, 2015 7:38:30 GMT -5
Unless there are big cap issues I would be surprised if Petry isn't brought back, at this point. With the love Bergevin showered on him, and Petry's comments about how Montreal is his first choice and how much fun he had and all that, then it seems pretty clear that the only obstacle would be financial.
Need meets fit meets desire. We need him, he fits in here, both sides want to get it done. How can this not happen??
<jinx>
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 10:13:25 GMT -5
I would prefer Therrien to allow the players to open it up a bit more, since I trust our defensive corps so much more than in prior seasons. The problem with a rough defensive system is that it is mentally and physically draining on players throughout an 82 game season, let alone a long playoff run. If we want to thrive in that system, Bergevin needs bigger forwards. Additionally, Carey Price needs to play fewer games next season. He started 66 games this year, not including playoffs (add 12 games). That's a lot, and I think he started to look worn out around March or so. Tokarski was/is wildly inconsistent. Either give him more playing time to settle in, or find a different back-up.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 22, 2015 10:37:20 GMT -5
I would prefer Therrien to allow the players to open it up a bit more, since I trust our defensive corps so much more than in prior seasons. The problem with a rough defensive system is that it is mentally and physically draining on players throughout an 82 game season, let alone a long playoff run. If we want to thrive in that system, Bergevin needs bigger forwards. Additionally, Carey Price needs to play fewer games next season. He started 66 games this year, not including playoffs (add 12 games). That's a lot, and I think he started to look worn out around March or so. Tokarski was/is wildly inconsistent. Either give him more playing time to settle in, or find a different back-up. After the Tampa series, Michel Therrien has proven to me that his teams are capable of much more than the let's-play-not-to-lose system we've seen from him ... the Habs took it to Tampa in four of those games and it proved to me that Tampa could be had ... but I also learned from that series that the 'luck factor' can go both ways ... I was listening to TSN690 on the way into work (when it didn't fade out) and they made a suggestion to make a pitch for Guy Boucher to come in as the PP coordinator since his teams are usually based on offence ... however, the problem of it's-only-a-matter-of-time-before-Boucher-takes-Therrien's-job would take off immediately (and the organization really doesn't need that kind of drama) ... besides, it would have to be one heck of a sell job to land Boucher after he's been an NHL head coach already ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on May 22, 2015 11:43:47 GMT -5
I hope Boucher remains unemployed for another 7 months or so. Please, God, please.
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Post by Gogie on May 26, 2015 7:46:45 GMT -5
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Post by blny on May 26, 2015 7:58:14 GMT -5
LOL I saw this on HFboards. He'd likely score more than PAP - not hard to do. He did have decent chemistry with Eller. Not saying I'd do it, but if signed to a short term, cheap contract you could do worse.
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Post by Polarice on May 26, 2015 9:51:33 GMT -5
LOL I saw this on HFboards. He'd likely score more than PAP - not hard to do. He did have decent chemistry with Eller. Not saying I'd do it, but if signed to a short term, cheap contract you could do worse. At least we'd know what we were getting.
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Post by BadCompany on May 26, 2015 9:56:12 GMT -5
You know, if a LOT of other chips fell into place I could see Kostitsyin having a place here. One year (two-way if you can get it), $900,000? Sure, why not? He will compete with McCarron and Scherbak for the third line winger role. Really, all we want to do here is buy time for one of our top prospects to get some pro experience in the AHL. Besides, we can't let Therrien get too comfortable, can we? Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Smith-Pelly Sharp - Plekanec - Gallagher De la Rose - Eller - Kostitsyin Weise - Mitchell - Pruse Trade Parenteau and Desharnais for picks/depth/cap relief. Acquire Sharp from the cap-straddled Blackhawks. Sign AK 47. Hire another psychologist for Lars. It could work, no?
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Post by blny on May 26, 2015 9:57:16 GMT -5
That would certainly be the logic in it, and not the worst idea ever. I mean if we can retread one of the more maligned coaches in Habs history ...
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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 26, 2015 10:28:14 GMT -5
The UFA crop is so bad that AK suddenly does not look like an absolute NO right off the bat. He did have good chemistry with both Pleky and Lars at different times, and at least Lars would only be next-in-line for MT's doghouse once AK showed up...an instant promotion for Lars!!
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Post by seventeen on May 26, 2015 11:02:02 GMT -5
You know, if a LOT of other chips fell into place I could see Kostitsyin having a place here. One year (two-way if you can get it), $900,000? Sure, why not? He will compete with McCarron and Scherbak for the third line winger role. Really, all we want to do here is buy time for one of our top prospects to get some pro experience in the AHL. Besides, we can't let Therrien get too comfortable, can we? Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Smith-Pelly Sharp - Plekanec - Gallagher De la Rose - Eller - Kostitsyin Weise - Mitchell - Pruse Trade Parenteau and Desharnais for picks/depth/cap relief. Acquire Sharp from the cap-straddled Blackhawks. Sign AK 47. Hire another psychologist for Lars. It could work, no? I keep seeing Smith-Pelley in our line-up speculations. Might that be because he and DD are sharing whatever hold they have over Therrien and Berg? A photo of them in decidedly unstylish suits maybe? This has nothing to do with Sekac, (who must be wondering what he did to warrant getting a chance to win a Stanley Cup in his first year in the NHL), but outside of skating up and down the ice and occasionally running into a body wearing another sweater, just what exactly has S-P done that warrants penciling him into the line-up? I think he's got a huge battle on his hands to stay on the team and avoid a stay in St. John's. We have numerous bottom 6 guys and some of them have more offensive potential than Smith=Pelley. McCarron and Scherbak are two who come to mind who will compete for that 3rd line right wing spot. I don't dislike the guy, but show me the money. I just haven't seen enough from him for me to consider him a viable option in the line-up. If he makes the team and plays like he has, I feel it will be a political or contract decision, not based on merit. At least not based on what he showed us since he joined the team.
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Post by blny on May 26, 2015 11:09:42 GMT -5
I think the only thing keeping DSP in the lineups is the fact he's signed through next season for 800k.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2015 11:41:01 GMT -5
I think Andrei Kostitsyn would be pretty motivated in coming back to Montreal, but I'm not so sure how long it would last ... not sure he's the kind of character guy Marc Bergevin would be looking for and I'd have concerns as to whether he'd buy into Michel Therrien's system ... I'd look at maybe adding him for a playoff drive, but I'd be weary of a season-long contract ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on May 26, 2015 12:17:22 GMT -5
Only 30, the luster of tax free pay checks you can't count on in the KHL has worn off. I think a year deal would be okay because he'd be motivated to prove himself for a long term one. It's that long term deal you'd have to be truly leery of.
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Post by seventeen on May 26, 2015 12:25:26 GMT -5
I think the only thing keeping DSP in the lineups is the fact he's signed through next season for 800k. That makes sense. You get what you pay for.
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Post by BadCompany on May 26, 2015 12:27:48 GMT -5
I don’t get the hate for Smith-Pelly. Granted, he’s not a “first liner” and I only put him there to have some net and board presence, and to balance out the other lines, but still… He’s only 22, and he did score 6 goals last year, and showed flashes of being a tough, physical player. He did score 27 in the AHL in 2013-14 (in only 55 games), and was a point-per-game player in the OHL. He has some offensive talent. He’s my surprise player for next year – I think he’s going to show up to camp in great shape, and just blow everybody away. I predict 15 goals for him next season.
<save for future reference>
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Post by blny on May 26, 2015 12:31:29 GMT -5
I don’t get the hate for Smith-Pelly. Granted, he’s not a “first liner” and I only put him there to have some net and board presence, and to balance out the other lines, but still… He’s only 22, and he did score 6 goals last year, and showed flashes of being a tough, physical player. He did score 27 in the AHL in 2013-14 (in only 55 games), and was a point-per-game player in the OHL. He has some offensive talent. He’s my surprise player for next year – I think he’s going to show up to camp in great shape, and just blow everybody away. I predict 15 goals for him next season. <save for future reference>He's a blunt instrument. Nothing wrong with that. Having a few younger ones, without the mileage, is good. He's a cheap 4th liner. I question his ability to think the game fast enough to be an offensive producer at the NHL level, but you never know.
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Post by frozone on May 26, 2015 13:51:18 GMT -5
DSP still has time to figure out how he needs to play in order to produce in the NHL. If Milan Lucic can produce, then so can DSP. I hope he realizes his potential. His AHL numbers are actually quite good, as BC pointed out.
As for AK, I think he looked lazy out there but I don't think he's as lazy as his reputation makes him out to be (little known fact: he was consistently among our leaders in hits for forwards). He also has an excellent shot and good size. He just wasn't the type of guy that really wanted to have the puck on his stick, which is disappointing considering his draft position. But whatever, as a complimentary player we won't find much better this summer.
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