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Post by seventeen on May 26, 2015 15:00:19 GMT -5
I don’t get the hate for Smith-Pelly. Granted, he’s not a “first liner” and I only put him there to have some net and board presence, and to balance out the other lines, but still… He’s only 22, and he did score 6 goals last year, and showed flashes of being a tough, physical player. He did score 27 in the AHL in 2013-14 (in only 55 games), and was a point-per-game player in the OHL. He has some offensive talent. He’s my surprise player for next year – I think he’s going to show up to camp in great shape, and just blow everybody away. I predict 15 goals for him next season. <save for future reference>I often don't disagree with your viewpoints, BC, but I will on this one. I have no 'hate' for DSP. I've watched him looking for signs that he has some potential to be other than we've seen so far and I haven't found any. He made what turned out to be a great pass to PK for a one timer, but in checking the replays more closely, he actually led PK by about 10 feet too much and PK found a way to turn it into a great play. I haven't seen a lot of vision from him, he hasn't 'surprised' me with a move or play I wasn't expecting and he doesn't often make the plays I do expect, which would put pressure on the opposition. What I have seen is a guy who could make the 4th line on many teams in the league, which is not something that excites me. I thought at the time of the trade that we gave up too much. Since watching Sekac with Anaheim, I see that he doesn't get 'involved' enough. He's still too much of a perimeter player. He had a great chance at a shot from the slot yesterday and passed to his teammate on the left who was at a worse angle and Crawford made the save. If he solves that part of his game (not an easy solution as it requires some guts and sacrifice), he'll make that trade look bad. I don't think he'll solve it, which makes the trade, well, blah. It looks like both teams had guys they couldn't get to improve their game and swapped them, hoping they could find the answer that the other team couldn't. I guess I'm just tired of seeing guys like DSP put into top 6 spots with the hope that they turn out. I understand your thinking in having someone who can forecheck and create some loose pucks on the top line(s). I don't mind throwing young guys into those spots, but they have to have some kind of skill level to support it. I don't see DSP with that level. PS. I don't think Berg was wrong in taking a chance, it's just that we're now 20 games in with him and I'd hoped to see more. Maybe the system doesn't suit him?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2015 16:24:01 GMT -5
DSP still has time to figure out how he needs to play in order to produce in the NHL. If Milan Lucic can produce, then so can DSP. I hope he realizes his potential. His AHL numbers are actually quite good, as BC pointed out. He hasn't won any games for us, but he hasn't lost any either ... that's got to mean something to Michel Therrien ... Given who was available in the 2003 NHL Entry Draft I thought the Habs were swinging for the fences, so to speak, when they drafted Andrei Kostitsyn ... to be fair, I also remember the TSN panelists quick to point out his medical issues, but they also remarked that if AK worked out Montreal could have a sleeper and possibly the most-talented player in the draft ... well, he was neither ... later they even moved his brother out so as to try and get him on the right track, but as time went on a lot of us were asking whether or not the organization had moved the wrong brother ... it was all about character with this guy, at least on this board, anyway ... given Marc Bergevin's desire for character players, I just don't think it would be a good fit ... Cheers.
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Post by blny on May 26, 2015 16:37:31 GMT -5
At the time, in 03, most of the prognosticators felt he had as much talent as anyone. The epilepsy was diagnosed, and the Canadiens felt it wasn't an issue. It was felt that he only fell to where he did because of those concerns.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2015 17:00:02 GMT -5
I guess I'm just tired of seeing guys like DSP put into top 6 spots with the hope that they turn out. This is a good point ... Dale Weise chipped in on the top 6 but you couldn't leave him there too long ... I was disappointed in the way Jiri Sekac was handled but I also remember feeling disappointed in hos play later ... I thought he would have done well somewhere in the top 6 but he's had a rough start ... kind of reminds me of when Fabian Brunnstrom came into the league ... Cheers.
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Post by jkr on May 26, 2015 19:58:41 GMT -5
At the time, in 03, most of the prognosticators felt he had as much talent as anyone. The epilepsy was diagnosed, and the Canadiens felt it wasn't an issue. It was felt that he only fell to where he did because of those concerns. I notices in Kostitsyn's stats that AK has played 398 NHL games. There used to be a pension requirement that greatly increased the amount received after playing 400 games. Is this still in force and could it be the reason he wants to come back? Not sure how current this link is but it explains the 400 game issue. ca.askmen.com/sports/business_100/109b_sports_business.html
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2015 20:52:34 GMT -5
At the time, in 03, most of the prognosticators felt he had as much talent as anyone. The epilepsy was diagnosed, and the Canadiens felt it wasn't an issue. It was felt that he only fell to where he did because of those concerns. I notices in Kostitsyn's stats that AK has played 398 NHL games. There used to be a pension requirement that greatly increased the amount received after playing 400 games. Is this still in force and could it be the reason he wants to come back? Not sure how current this link is but it explains the 400 game issue. ca.askmen.com/sports/business_100/109b_sports_business.htmlThat's a really good find, JKR ... it's one of those things I've wanted to find for quite a while, just out of curiosity ... as an aside, I met Carl Brewer back in '94 (Syl Apps Golf Tournament) and he was confident they'd win ... interesting that the PGA issues performance-based pensions ... Tiger Woods could wind up with $300 million from the PGA ... some things are just wrong ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on May 26, 2015 22:48:34 GMT -5
I wonder if the more they win, the more they pay in, too. Pensions are based in large part on contributions, not only actuarial data.
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Post by habsorbed on May 27, 2015 1:15:47 GMT -5
I have no doubt that AK would be motivated to get to 400 games but what's the motivation after that. But a bigger question is why would AK want to play in Mtl, and under MT. It ain't going to happen.
Interesting how much time we've spent bemoaning our lack of a top 6 forward on the team. If i'm not mistaken, last summer the hype from MB was Sekac was going to be just that. If not in his first year, certainly in the near future. Sekac never got the chance and now we have DSP who is certainly not a top 6 and another of many others we already have. Still would take my chances on Sekac, I've liked his game as the playoffs have gone on - so has Boudreau.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 2:46:14 GMT -5
No more floaters like Andrei please!!!
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Post by jkr on May 27, 2015 5:05:25 GMT -5
I have no doubt that AK would be motivated to get to 400 games but what's the motivation after that. But a bigger question is why would AK want to play in Mtl, and under MT. It ain't going to happen. Interesting how much time we've spent bemoaning our lack of a top 6 forward on the team. If i'm not mistaken, last summer the hype from MB was Sekac was going to be just that. If not in his first year, certainly in the near future. Sekac never got the chance and now we have DSP who is certainly not a top 6 and another of many others we already have. Still would take my chances on Sekac, I've liked his game as the playoffs have gone on - so has Boudreau. Sekac didn't dress at all in the 1st two rounds and from the game logs in this series it looks like he gets 4th line minutes - maybe 7-11 minutes a night. Looks like his use in Anaheim is similar to his utilization in Montreal - bottom lines , not much PP time.
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Post by Disp on May 27, 2015 7:00:31 GMT -5
I don’t get the hate for Smith-Pelly. Granted, he’s not a “first liner” and I only put him there to have some net and board presence, and to balance out the other lines, but still… He’s only 22, and he did score 6 goals last year, and showed flashes of being a tough, physical player. He did score 27 in the AHL in 2013-14 (in only 55 games), and was a point-per-game player in the OHL. He has some offensive talent. He’s my surprise player for next year – I think he’s going to show up to camp in great shape, and just blow everybody away. I predict 15 goals for him next season. <save for future reference>I often don't disagree with your viewpoints, BC, but I will on this one. I have no 'hate' for DSP. I've watched him looking for signs that he has some potential to be other than we've seen so far and I haven't found any. He made what turned out to be a great pass to PK for a one timer, but in checking the replays more closely, he actually led PK by about 10 feet too much and PK found a way to turn it into a great play. I haven't seen a lot of vision from him, he hasn't 'surprised' me with a move or play I wasn't expecting and he doesn't often make the plays I do expect, which would put pressure on the opposition. What I have seen is a guy who could make the 4th line on many teams in the league, which is not something that excites me. I thought at the time of the trade that we gave up too much. Since watching Sekac with Anaheim, I see that he doesn't get 'involved' enough. He's still too much of a perimeter player. He had a great chance at a shot from the slot yesterday and passed to his teammate on the left who was at a worse angle and Crawford made the save. If he solves that part of his game (not an easy solution as it requires some guts and sacrifice), he'll make that trade look bad. I don't think he'll solve it, which makes the trade, well, blah. It looks like both teams had guys they couldn't get to improve their game and swapped them, hoping they could find the answer that the other team couldn't. I guess I'm just tired of seeing guys like DSP put into top 6 spots with the hope that they turn out. I understand your thinking in having someone who can forecheck and create some loose pucks on the top line(s). I don't mind throwing young guys into those spots, but they have to have some kind of skill level to support it. I don't see DSP with that level. PS. I don't think Berg was wrong in taking a chance, it's just that we're now 20 games in with him and I'd hoped to see more. Maybe the system doesn't suit him? That pass to PK was in a perfect spot for him to step into it and rip it. Probably don't score if it's on the tape. I think guys sell DSP a little short. He's got some skill, give him some time, hopefully he figures it out.
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Post by PTH on May 27, 2015 7:08:38 GMT -5
At the time, in 03, most of the prognosticators felt he had as much talent as anyone. The epilepsy was diagnosed, and the Canadiens felt it wasn't an issue. It was felt that he only fell to where he did because of those concerns. I notices in Kostitsyn's stats that AK has played 398 NHL games. There used to be a pension requirement that greatly increased the amount received after playing 400 games. Is this still in force and could it be the reason he wants to come back? Not sure how current this link is but it explains the 400 game issue. ca.askmen.com/sports/business_100/109b_sports_business.htmlI read an interesting article that explained how the NHL now has a retirement plan based on total number of pro games (or seasons?) played, and the 400 game mark doesn't mean anything anymore. Though I have no theoretical objection to Kostitsyn coming back, I don't like going back to past problems, specifically when the problems were of the character type.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 27, 2015 8:09:13 GMT -5
I often don't disagree with your viewpoints, BC, but I will on this one. I have no 'hate' for DSP. I've watched him looking for signs that he has some potential to be other than we've seen so far and I haven't found any. He made what turned out to be a great pass to PK for a one timer, but in checking the replays more closely, he actually led PK by about 10 feet too much and PK found a way to turn it into a great play. I haven't seen a lot of vision from him, he hasn't 'surprised' me with a move or play I wasn't expecting and he doesn't often make the plays I do expect, which would put pressure on the opposition. What I have seen is a guy who could make the 4th line on many teams in the league, which is not something that excites me. I thought at the time of the trade that we gave up too much. Since watching Sekac with Anaheim, I see that he doesn't get 'involved' enough. He's still too much of a perimeter player. He had a great chance at a shot from the slot yesterday and passed to his teammate on the left who was at a worse angle and Crawford made the save. If he solves that part of his game (not an easy solution as it requires some guts and sacrifice), he'll make that trade look bad. I don't think he'll solve it, which makes the trade, well, blah. It looks like both teams had guys they couldn't get to improve their game and swapped them, hoping they could find the answer that the other team couldn't. I guess I'm just tired of seeing guys like DSP put into top 6 spots with the hope that they turn out. I understand your thinking in having someone who can forecheck and create some loose pucks on the top line(s). I don't mind throwing young guys into those spots, but they have to have some kind of skill level to support it. I don't see DSP with that level. PS. I don't think Berg was wrong in taking a chance, it's just that we're now 20 games in with him and I'd hoped to see more. Maybe the system doesn't suit him? That pass to PK was in a perfect spot for him to step into it and rip it. Probably don't score if it's on the tape. I think guys sell DSP a little short. He's got some skill, give him some time, hopefully he figures it out. He seemed to get better as time went on. I recall some mention of him being out of shape when he got to the Habs (too much guacamole in Cali?). I am sure he was given a training regimen by the team and hopefully he comes to camp in great shape. It's his last year on his ELC and I'm sure he'll want to earn some real coin.
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Post by CentreHice on May 27, 2015 8:42:03 GMT -5
Gonna be tough watching another year of Price backstop us to the playoffs…only to see the intensity level ramp to a point where the diminutive DD and the indifferent Plekanec are eventually neutralized.
Groundhog Day.
Besides developing Galchenyuk as the centre he was drafted to be, Bergevin needs to make a move that hurts…because we all know nobody's giving away such players.
We have a goalie who can cover for that….and if Price finally gets the goal support he needs…..well, just look at the 4 remaining teams in the playoffs.
Their goalies have all shown flashes of brilliance…but they're not Price as he is now. Give us some legit goal scoring and there's a chance we're in the Finals next year.
Wishful thinking with 3rd and 4th liners in our Top 6 isn't the way to build a winner.
The Price-Subban-Pacioretty window is NOW.
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Post by habsorbed on May 27, 2015 10:55:24 GMT -5
I have no doubt that AK would be motivated to get to 400 games but what's the motivation after that. But a bigger question is why would AK want to play in Mtl, and under MT. It ain't going to happen. Interesting how much time we've spent bemoaning our lack of a top 6 forward on the team. If i'm not mistaken, last summer the hype from MB was Sekac was going to be just that. If not in his first year, certainly in the near future. Sekac never got the chance and now we have DSP who is certainly not a top 6 and another of many others we already have. Still would take my chances on Sekac, I've liked his game as the playoffs have gone on - so has Boudreau. Sekac didn't dress at all in the 1st two rounds and from the game logs in this series it looks like he gets 4th line minutes - maybe 7-11 minutes a night. Looks like his use in Anaheim is similar to his utilization in Montreal - bottom lines , not much PP time. Ducks have legit top 6 and best PP so don't expect Sekac to crack that at this point. But he is getting good minutes and playing well. I notice him when he's out there unlike DSP who would throw a few hits in the first period and then go for a nap.
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Post by seventeen on May 27, 2015 12:34:32 GMT -5
I often don't disagree with your viewpoints, BC, but I will on this one. I have no 'hate' for DSP. I've watched him looking for signs that he has some potential to be other than we've seen so far and I haven't found any. He made what turned out to be a great pass to PK for a one timer, but in checking the replays more closely, he actually led PK by about 10 feet too much and PK found a way to turn it into a great play. I haven't seen a lot of vision from him, he hasn't 'surprised' me with a move or play I wasn't expecting and he doesn't often make the plays I do expect, which would put pressure on the opposition. What I have seen is a guy who could make the 4th line on many teams in the league, which is not something that excites me. I thought at the time of the trade that we gave up too much. Since watching Sekac with Anaheim, I see that he doesn't get 'involved' enough. He's still too much of a perimeter player. He had a great chance at a shot from the slot yesterday and passed to his teammate on the left who was at a worse angle and Crawford made the save. If he solves that part of his game (not an easy solution as it requires some guts and sacrifice), he'll make that trade look bad. I don't think he'll solve it, which makes the trade, well, blah. It looks like both teams had guys they couldn't get to improve their game and swapped them, hoping they could find the answer that the other team couldn't. I guess I'm just tired of seeing guys like DSP put into top 6 spots with the hope that they turn out. I understand your thinking in having someone who can forecheck and create some loose pucks on the top line(s). I don't mind throwing young guys into those spots, but they have to have some kind of skill level to support it. I don't see DSP with that level. PS. I don't think Berg was wrong in taking a chance, it's just that we're now 20 games in with him and I'd hoped to see more. Maybe the system doesn't suit him? That pass to PK was in a perfect spot for him to step into it and rip it. Probably don't score if it's on the tape. I think guys sell DSP a little short. He's got some skill, give him some time, hopefully he figures it out. Except it wasn't. You can see PK slapping his stick on the ice, calling for the puck. It should be about 6-8 feet ahead, so he can stop it, push it slightly ahead so it's flat and then drive into it. A pass against the boards with a bounce back to the incoming player, with all the risks involved of a bouncing puck that it doesn't come off the boards properly is correctly called a mistake. PK salvaged it by being so darn good.
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Post by seventeen on May 27, 2015 12:36:02 GMT -5
That pass to PK was in a perfect spot for him to step into it and rip it. Probably don't score if it's on the tape. I think guys sell DSP a little short. He's got some skill, give him some time, hopefully he figures it out. He seemed to get better as time went on. I recall some mention of him being out of shape when he got to the Habs (too much guacamole in Cali?). I am sure he was given a training regimen by the team and hopefully he comes to camp in great shape. It's his last year on his ELC and I'm sure he'll want to earn some real coin. Yes, I agree he improved from his beginnings with us.
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Post by seventeen on May 27, 2015 12:44:26 GMT -5
Sekac didn't dress at all in the 1st two rounds and from the game logs in this series it looks like he gets 4th line minutes - maybe 7-11 minutes a night. Looks like his use in Anaheim is similar to his utilization in Montreal - bottom lines , not much PP time. Ducks have legit top 6 and best PP so don't expect Sekac to crack that at this point. But he is getting good minutes and playing well. I notice him when he's out there unlike DSP who would throw a few hits in the first period and then go for a nap. He is noticeable, Habsorbed. The thing I've grown to dislike about him, which showed itself in the last games with us, is that despite the good play and the skill level, it doesn't result in points. Now that may change, and perhaps its still a matter of him adjusting to the smaller ice size, etc. I'm not so sure, though. The last few games I watched Anaheim play, his linemates were really engaged, taking the body at every opportunity. Sekac forced plays, but didn't initiate contact. There was one play that was tailor made to throw a good check and he turned away. Then there was the play I mentioned in another post where he had the puck, between the two face-off circles and passed instead of shooting. Confidence? I don't know, but now I think, rather than getting the worst of that deal, that it was just two teams swapping problems they couldn't solve. Both Sekac and DSP may work out with their respective teams, or be moved on to someone else. I don't think either is going to be a factor for either team. I've been know to be wrong before though. Occasionally. Rarely.
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Post by Polarice on May 27, 2015 13:32:06 GMT -5
Ducks have legit top 6 and best PP so don't expect Sekac to crack that at this point. But he is getting good minutes and playing well. I notice him when he's out there unlike DSP who would throw a few hits in the first period and then go for a nap. He is noticeable, Habsorbed. The thing I've grown to dislike about him, which showed itself in the last games with us, is that despite the good play and the skill level, it doesn't result in points. Now that may change, and perhaps its still a matter of him adjusting to the smaller ice size, etc. I'm not so sure, though. The last few games I watched Anaheim play, his linemates were really engaged, taking the body at every opportunity. Sekac forced plays, but didn't initiate contact. There was one play that was tailor made to throw a good check and he turned away. Then there was the play I mentioned in another post where he had the puck, between the two face-off circles and passed instead of shooting. Confidence? I don't know, but now I think, rather than getting the worst of that deal, that it was just two teams swapping problems they couldn't solve. Both Sekac and DSP may work out with their respective teams, or be moved on to someone else. I don't think either is going to be a factor for either team. I've been know to be wrong before though. Occasionally. Rarely. He ain't pretty....he just looks that way!!
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Post by Skilly on May 27, 2015 15:55:36 GMT -5
I notices in Kostitsyn's stats that AK has played 398 NHL games. There used to be a pension requirement that greatly increased the amount received after playing 400 games. Is this still in force and could it be the reason he wants to come back? Not sure how current this link is but it explains the 400 game issue. ca.askmen.com/sports/business_100/109b_sports_business.htmlI read an interesting article that explained how the NHL now has a retirement plan based on total number of pro games (or seasons?) played, and the 400 game mark doesn't mean anything anymore. Though I have no theoretical objection to Kostitsyn coming back, I don't like going back to past problems, specifically when the problems were of the character type. It is now done by games on the active roster, as opposed to games played, I think ... So basically years
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Post by HFTO on May 27, 2015 17:16:52 GMT -5
Meh ....Habs have done that too often in the pst with little or no impact....this team needs to either make a bold move with a trade adding to a boafidetop 6 a real one or play whatever kids project to be top players.....despite the progression this team has too many middling players whom can't get better...in AK47's case at 30 he's not coming back and being better.
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Post by seventeen on May 27, 2015 23:30:21 GMT -5
Yeah. No need to rehash another chapter I thought we'd turned. Be bold, Berg.
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Post by Disp on May 27, 2015 23:31:05 GMT -5
That pass to PK was in a perfect spot for him to step into it and rip it. Probably don't score if it's on the tape. I think guys sell DSP a little short. He's got some skill, give him some time, hopefully he figures it out. Except it wasn't. You can see PK slapping his stick on the ice, calling for the puck. It should be about 6-8 feet ahead, so he can stop it, push it slightly ahead so it's flat and then drive into it. A pass against the boards with a bounce back to the incoming player, with all the risks involved of a bouncing puck that it doesn't come off the boards properly is correctly called a mistake. PK salvaged it by being so darn good. Any other way than the way he did it is likely to go off the senator player. If Crosby made that play, they'd have went on and on about how he laid it out, off the boards, to an open part of the ice, just perfect. It's DSP though, so it was probably just lucky.
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Post by seventeen on May 27, 2015 23:39:02 GMT -5
That's what I think too. (I can't find a wink icon on my phone).
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Post by blny on Jun 5, 2015 22:51:01 GMT -5
FWIW, food for thought. Berg would have a bit of juggling to do, but the dominoes are lining up. Keep in mind he can play all three forward positions.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 5, 2015 23:46:27 GMT -5
I'd be disappointed if Marc Bergevin gave up a 1st-rounder for Patrick Sharp ... if he were to go after him, I'd hope it's a multi-player swap ... just too deep a draft this year ...
Cheers.
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 6, 2015 1:22:50 GMT -5
Sharp seems to be on the down slide at this point. I was surprised he was selected for the last Olympics but he performed well. He would certainly be an upgrade on our current centres but for how long and at what price?
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Post by seventeen on Jun 6, 2015 1:52:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't do that. It's Gomez all over again. We're doing Chicago a huge favor by solving a CAP issue. They should be giving us a first for that. Realistically? Maybe a 3rd rounder next year.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 6, 2015 11:46:46 GMT -5
26 will still get you a good player in this year's draft. Too much for Sharp. I would give the third and a prospect (not the good ones).
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Post by blny on Jun 6, 2015 17:44:10 GMT -5
I don't see a multi player swap with Chicago. They're trying to clear cap space. Sharp's price is going down, despite the fact he's been good these playoffs. That price drop is market driven at this point, and it may continue to fall, but it won't be because of his play.
IMO, you have to weigh what's available - realistically - at our point in the first round against what you believe Sharp can bring over the next two years. That draft pick almost assuredly isn't making the team. Berg also doesn't have a 2nd to throw in with his first if he was inclined to try and move up. Sharp admittedly had a poor regular season. Despite the dip, he's still a very consistent scorer and playoff performer. That latter experience would be a strong addition. He's still a strong skater. Yes, he's 33. I think his style of play would fit in well, and I think he's got plenty of gas in the tank to be a player that can push a close team closer and take advantage of a window.
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