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Post by BadCompany on Jul 27, 2015 7:27:26 GMT -5
I kinda like those lines, BC, and I agree DDs best days were between Pacioretty and Cole. I would replace de la Rose on the 2nd line with Hudon or even Scherbak. How cool with that be? I still don't get why de la Rose isn't in the AHL developing his offensive game. Not that he's so out of place but to me he's still very raw offensively. I bet Hiudon would score more goals riding shotgun with Pleks and Semin than DLR. Kassian up top on the 1st line may be a stretch but worth a shot. I keep harping that you need to put your players in a position to succeed, to do what they do well, which breeds good results, which breeds confidence, etc. Yeah, I agree, De La Rose is the weak link. But as good and as mature a player he is, at such a young age, I'm not sure the offense will ever be there. It's never been there in the past, so why would he suddenly develop it at the NHL level? Or even the AHL level? I also considered Scherbak, and have said a few times that if there is anybody who I think can be our surprise rookie it will be Scherbak. I've penciled him into many a lineup I've created. But let's face it, a rookie straight out of junior is going to find it hard to crack this lineup, and not just because of Therrien; it's just a hard thing to do in general, and indeed it may not even be all that wise a thing to do anyways. Might be better to stick him in the AHL for a few months, and then call him up later if he warrants it, a la the aforementioned De La Rose. The guy that I REALLY wanted to put there was DSP. But I figured that would get everybody all mad. I dunno, maybe I'm drinking too much Bergevin Kool-Aid, but it seems to me he has much more offensive potential than De La Rose. DSP did score 27 in 55 AHL games two seasons ago (a 40 goal pace), and 36 in the OHL not too long ago as well. He at least has a history of scoring, which is more than can be said of De La Rose. I figure that if you stick him with Plekanec and Semin and he still looks like nothing more than a grinder then at least you'll know what you have and you can move on. I know he got some time with Getzlaf and Perry, but how much time did he really get, and there is a difference between playing with them when you are 21-22, and when you are 23-24. I don't want to say it's make-or-break-it time with DSP, but like you said, put guys in a position to succeed and see what you got. If all else fails, then second line left wing could be Bergevin's trade deadline target. A problem with the lines outlined above is that the EGG line is the 3rd line and therefore subject to 3rd line minutes. I would think both Galchenyuk and Gallagher at least warrant more ice time than that afforded to a third line. And yes, what you call a line has no bearing on the ice time given to it, but Therrien has a very clear idea in his head of what Eller is capable of, and that is being his best defensive centre, so that line if kept together, will not get many offensive zone starts or prime offensive opportunities. I'd find it odd if DD, DLR and Kassian get more offensive opportunities than Galchy and Gally. Release the Hounds!- Therrien's 2015-16 motto, as predicted by me. And I am NEVER wrong. Ever. Ever, ever.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 27, 2015 8:23:32 GMT -5
De la Rose doesn't do anything badly or anything well, which makes him an ideal Therrien player!
But I look at simple stats like games played and goals and the difference between DLR and say Hudon is stark:
Last 3 years:
DLR: 169 games, 23 goals Hudon: 225 games, 91 goals
Hudon and DLR are different players, but is it just that DLR was a 2nd round pick and Berg feels more compulsion to push him faster than a guy like Hudon, who is also a Bergevin pick but a 5th rounder? Or is it simply that DLR plays a safer, more mature 2-way game, but gives you nothing in the way of offensive production?
I'm puzzled, especially coming from a European league where they don't play as many games. He needs more time. I agree DLR has never shown much offensive ability, but that doesn't mean it can't be developed. And developing it at the NHL level is much harder than in the AHL where you can deploy him with heavy minutes, with the best players, on the PP, build his confidence, etc.
He doesn't need to be in Montreal. At a minimum he needs to win his spot outright in camp and not just because he spent time last year.
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Post by frozone on Jul 27, 2015 9:29:53 GMT -5
I agree with you guys on DLR. His maturity was very impressive last year, but it was more obvious during the playoffs that more development is needed.
I do think that he can develop some offense to his game, and the place to do it is in the AHL. Really, all he really needs to score in the NHL is a good shot. Let him work on his shot and get him used to actually using it during games in the AHL. Add some willingness to take some punishment in front of the net and I'm pretty sure he can score 15 goals in the NHL eventually. He already has the speed and size to get to pucks and win battles.
Also, if MT wants to play him at center, let the kid work on his faceoffs too (40% last year).
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Post by seventeen on Jul 27, 2015 11:54:08 GMT -5
A problem with the lines outlined above is that the EGG line is the 3rd line and therefore subject to 3rd line minutes. I would think both Galchenyuk and Gallagher at least warrant more ice time than that afforded to a third line. And yes, what you call a line has no bearing on the ice time given to it, but Therrien has a very clear idea in his head of what Eller is capable of, and that is being his best defensive centre, so that line if kept together, will not get many offensive zone starts or prime offensive opportunities. I'd find it odd if DD, DLR and Kassian get more offensive opportunities than Galchy and Gally. Release the Hounds!- Therrien's 2015-16 motto, as predicted by me. And I am NEVER wrong. Ever. Ever, ever. I'd prefer "Release the spots", with reference to those Luddite leopards. I'd like to share your outlook on DSP. Maybe he can take a step forward this year. (Fingers crossed)
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 27, 2015 12:39:11 GMT -5
De la Rose doesn't do anything badly or anything well, which makes him an ideal Therrien player! But I look at simple stats like games played and goals and the difference between DLR and say Hudon is stark: Last 3 years: DLR: 169 games, 23 goals Hudon: 225 games, 91 goals Hudon and DLR are different players, but is it just that DLR was a 2nd round pick and Berg feels more compulsion to push him faster than a guy like Hudon, who is also a Bergevin pick but a 5th rounder? Or is it simply that DLR plays a safer, more mature 2-way game, but gives you nothing in the way of offensive production? I'm puzzled, especially coming from a European league where they don't play as many games. He needs more time. I agree DLR has never shown much offensive ability, but that doesn't mean it can't be developed. And developing it at the NHL level is much harder than in the AHL where you can deploy him with heavy minutes, with the best players, on the PP, build his confidence, etc. He doesn't need to be in Montreal. At a minimum he needs to win his spot outright in camp and not just because he spent time last year. I thought DLR was one of the real surprises last year. I love watching him play. He's got a very high IQ and understands the defensive game better than anyone I've seen at his age. As you say his got size and speed. He can play on anyone's 4th line and should be an asset on the third. He will be a stalwart for us for some time. If he can learn to score than all the better. Gainey was never filling the net but received all the accolades (best player on the planet) because he understood and played the other aspects of the game so well. Not saying DLR will be another Gainey but I ain't ruling out a Frank Selke from this guy.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 27, 2015 13:44:45 GMT -5
I think, right from when he was drafted, I mentioned his lack of scoring being the one thing that concerned me. He seemed to improve in his WJC stint as captain of the Swedish team, and is now back to concentrating on defense. He's a smart kid, though, so I wouldn't put it past him to get better at scoring as he goes along. Fifteen goals a year might be his peak, but even that level combined with a very high defensive game would make him a valuable player. He's shown a good shot and some decent awareness (at times) of where to be in the attacking zone, so it's good to see those flashes. If he wasn't showing anything at all, I'd be much more concerned. See, I can be optimistic.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 27, 2015 14:04:23 GMT -5
I think, right from when he was drafted, I mentioned his lack of scoring being the one thing that concerned me. He seemed to improve in his WJC stint as captain of the Swedish team, and is now back to concentrating on defense. He's a smart kid, though, so I wouldn't put it past him to get better at scoring as he goes along. Fifteen goals a year might be his peak, but even that level combined with a very high defensive game would make him a valuable player. He's shown a good shot and some decent awareness (at times) of where to be in the attacking zone, so it's good to see those flashes. If he wasn't showing anything at all, I'd be much more concerned. See, I can be optimistic. If I had my way, he never would have been drafted .... see my signature. It will be three years later (after this season), and not one of those guys has made a significant impact - and most of them will not have suited up for a single game. 2013, the strike shortened year, with our soon to be Norris trophy winning defenseman playing at the top of his game (up to this point in his career), still remains as the year we should have went for it IMO. Lots of good players were going for second rounders and conditional second rounders, ... I know some are going to say that some of those players didn't hold snuff the teams that got them, but that doesn't mean we don't try. They could have been better (and yes, worse) on our team. But you have to try, especially when you are the second best team, ... losing to Ottawa that year really hurt ... were they worth it? I dunno. I just know no one talks about any of those guys we hung onto as game breakers. Heck, most guys who follow the young kids are talking about Scherbak and Hudon, not these guys ... I get to watch McCarron lots this year ... hopefully, he is the one that works out.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 27, 2015 14:24:14 GMT -5
I don't have faith in Fucale, but I think DLR, McCarron and Scherbak will work out well.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 27, 2015 20:03:01 GMT -5
De la Rose is another Lars Eller. Which is one reason why I think the Habs want to take look at him. You can easily see DLR playing the same two-way game as Eller so why not trade Eller?
Eller is another guy who needs to find his ceiling fast. After Galchenyuk, he's the guy with the met untapped potential. I know he probably is what he is under Therrien, but I really love his game, the advanced stats crowd loves him, so it would be great if he could bust out for 20-25 goals and like 55 points. That would be huge.
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Post by franko on Jul 27, 2015 21:59:41 GMT -5
on the third line, with plugs, and major d responsibilities over o and under MT's coaching style? forgive my cynicism.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 28, 2015 7:49:29 GMT -5
on the third line, with plugs, and major d responsibilities over o and under MT's coaching style? forgive my cynicism. Not only that, but its been 20 years since the Habs have had more than five 20 goal scorers on the team. Right now, I'm seeing prognostications, depending on which you look at, that have Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Kassian, Semin, Eller, and Subban possibly reaching the 20 goal plateau. It's been a decade since we've seen five 20 goal scorers. The caveat being that in the strike shortened year we had eight on a 20 goal pace, another reason I felt we should have went for it .... IMO, odds are, only 4 of the above listed will reach 20 goals. But it would be nice to see, I just can't see it happening in our system ... but systems change.
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Post by franko on Jul 28, 2015 10:39:21 GMT -5
on the third line, with plugs, and major d responsibilities over o and under MT's coaching style? forgive my cynicism. I just can't see it happening in our system ... but systems change. the only way I see a system change is with a coaching change.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 28, 2015 11:41:48 GMT -5
on the third line, with plugs, and major d responsibilities over o and under MT's coaching style? forgive my cynicism. Not only that, but its been 20 years since the Habs have had more than five 20 goal scorers on the team. Right now, I'm seeing prognostications, depending on which you look at, that have Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Kassian, Semin, Eller, and Subban possibly reaching the 20 goal plateau. It's been a decade since we've seen five 20 goal scorers. The caveat being that in the strike shortened year we had eight on a 20 goal pace, another reason I felt we should have went for it .... IMO, odds are, only 4 of the above listed will reach 20 goals. But it would be nice to see, I just can't see it happening in our system ... but systems change. I tend to agree. I don't think the players are given enough free reign to have that many 20 goal scorers, although an improved PP would help especially if that scoring is spread around a bit including the newbies. It will be interesting to see how both Kassian and Semin are used, and how they respond and produce offensively. They both can do better than what they showed last season, but will the opportunities be given?
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 28, 2015 12:17:16 GMT -5
As I look out from my deck over the mysteries of the expansive ocean and the blue, blue sky and ponder the future, it occurred to me; if Chuck progresses this year and Semin plays like he did a few years ago, both realistic possibilities and the rest of the players are status quo - the Cup is ours!
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 28, 2015 12:40:37 GMT -5
As I look out from my deck over the mysteries of the expansive ocean and the blue, blue sky and ponder the future, it occurred to me; if Chuck progresses this year and Semin plays like he did a few years ago, both realistic possibilities and the rest of the players are status quo - the Cup is ours! I can also see MTs defensive sphincter puckering up tighter and tighter as we get closer to a cup.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 28, 2015 13:41:56 GMT -5
Then we'll rip him a new one.
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Post by HFTO on Jul 28, 2015 16:13:35 GMT -5
My thinking is how many games until Kassian and Semin are regulated to 10 mins or in the press box???
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 28, 2015 23:41:56 GMT -5
My thinking is how many games until Kassian and Semin are regulated to 10 mins or in the press box??? I wouldn't mind this as MT would in effect be saying MB is a dumb GM and then MB can say MT is a regular on L'Anti-Chambre!
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 29, 2015 7:05:06 GMT -5
My thinking is how many games until Kassian and Semin are regulated to 10 mins or in the press box??? I wouldn't mind this as MT would in effect be saying MB is a dumb GM and then MB can say MT is a regular on L'Anti-Chambre! If MT does minimize the playing time Kassian and Semin get, that is, imo, a direct challenge to MBs authority as GM. MB picked them up to generate offense, if MT insists that they play a more defensive role and punishes them because they don't, then that will be the 3rd player MB has brought in that MT has done that to (Sekac)
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Post by stoat on Jul 29, 2015 10:38:00 GMT -5
As I look out from my deck over the mysteries of the expansive ocean and the blue, blue sky and ponder the future, it occurred to me; if Chuck progresses this year and Semin plays like he did a few years ago, both realistic possibilities and the rest of the players are status quo - the Cup is ours! Your sentiments are noble but there are some really good teams out there.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 7, 2015 13:52:23 GMT -5
I don't like to resurrect old threads, but where else do you put this? Bob McKenzie tweeting that Semin is on waivers. Snake eyes.
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Post by blny on Dec 7, 2015 14:14:05 GMT -5
No big loss. They can bury most of the salary in the AHL when he clears.
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Post by franko on Dec 7, 2015 14:51:43 GMT -5
... well, if it works, genius. as you said . . . MB didn't sit, he took a chance. that's all you can ask from your GM.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 7, 2015 15:02:41 GMT -5
You wonder about Semin. It would be far more enlightening to be closer to the scene. Does the guy have some sort of problem? Surely a guy who exhibited the skills he has in the past doesn't lose them at age 30? It's likely the desire isn't there anymore and without that you don't have much. Oh well, it opens up a roster spot for some of our young guys.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Dec 7, 2015 15:29:37 GMT -5
You wonder about Semin. It would be far more enlightening to be closer to the scene. Does the guy have some sort of problem? Surely a guy who exhibited the skills he has in the past doesn't lose them at age 30? It's likely the desire isn't there anymore and without that you don't have much. Oh well, it opens up a roster spot for some of our young guys. He just seemed a bit too slow out there for this team. If you are behind the play you cannot get into those prime scoring areas, and you often get victimized by opposing speed and take penalties. The other factor is that Andrighetto has come in and stolen his spot with better play. Who knows if young Ghetto can keep it up, but he sure skates like the wind compared to Semin. And you cannot forget Byron as a surprise waiver pickup. He already has more highlight reel plays than Semin...again due to incredible speed. I was hoping we could rekindle some of Semin's scoring punch from before, but alas...
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Post by PTH on Dec 7, 2015 23:12:44 GMT -5
And to think, my fear was that he'd score 20 or 25 and then be re-signed for several seasons, and we'd then get this (lack of) performance out of him...
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Post by seventeen on Dec 7, 2015 23:57:30 GMT -5
And to think, my fear was that he'd score 20 or 25 and then be re-signed for several seasons, and we'd then get this (lack of) performance out of him... If someone can explain to me, how to insert a gif in here it would be appreciated. So much for trying to get Keanu Reaves dodging a bullet. Can't get him to move.
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 8, 2015 1:45:45 GMT -5
Well, can't say it comes as a shock. Everyone acknowledged it was a gamble from the outset. At least it was low risk- high reward scenario.
Of course when you couple it with Zach (ya, remember him, the guy who brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "a 4 line game plan") it would appear that MB struck out big with his search for a top 6 this past summer. Thankfully Flash and Byron, late and fortuitous additions, have helped strengthen the forward line up. But we still need a top 6 forward who can score.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 8, 2015 8:42:25 GMT -5
And to think, my fear was that he'd score 20 or 25 and then be re-signed for several seasons, and we'd then get this (lack of) performance out of him... If someone can explain to me, how to insert a gif in here it would be appreciated. So much for trying to get Keanu Reaves dodging a bullet. Can't get him to move. I edited your post above, trying to explain it…but it's better in a separate post… Find the gif file on-line; Open the file in a new window (usually a right mouse click on the picture gives you the "Open image in a new window" option); URL in the new window should say "gif" at the end; Copy the URL; Open the IMAGE option on our toolbar; Paste the URL into the field; Done.
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Post by blny on Dec 8, 2015 9:47:46 GMT -5
"Are you telling me I'll be able to dodge bullets?" "No Neo. I'm telling you you won't have to."
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