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Post by CentreHice on Feb 23, 2016 13:13:46 GMT -5
Considering Bergevin's Jan. 21 glowing endorsement of Therrien, it worries me that Therrien has major input as to future team needs re: Trade Deadline day and the Draft. Because if MT is indeed in heavy consultation, why would MB fire him? I would presume a Dead Coach Walking is NOT involved in future plans.
Lineup ramifications, if he is.....
1. Is Galchenyuk still considered a winger? 2. Is Desharnais going to be here...getting carte blanche? i.e. taking up a key roster spot.
Attitudinal ramifications too, as a result of the above (e.g. ice times, player usage).
Not to mention that Subban would have to expect another season of having his coach on his back, despite how well he performs.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 23, 2016 14:10:29 GMT -5
Considering Bergevin's Jan. 21 glowing endorsement of Therrien, it worries me that Therrien has major input as to future team needs re: Trade Deadline day and the Draft. Because if MT is indeed in heavy consultation, why would MB fire him? I would presume a Dead Coach Walking is NOT involved in future plans. Lineup ramifications, if he is..... 1. Is Galchenyuk still considered a winger? 2. Is Desharnais going to be here...getting carte blanche? i.e. taking up a key roster spot. Attitudinal ramifications too, as a result of the above (e.g. ice times, player usage). Not to mention that Subban would have to expect another season of having his coach on his back, despite how well he performs. PK must look down the highway at Karlsson and say 'What about me?"
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 23, 2016 16:57:23 GMT -5
Hola guys ... have been talking to more than a few Habs fans here in Cuba ... lots of people from Gatineau, Montreal, Quebec and various parts of Ontario ... all but one of them want to know what´s going on while they´re away and of those fans, the majority of them are already looking forward to a high draft pick ... one of them I was talking to this morning was disappointed when he heard they didn´t lose in regulation ... hey, even the ardent fans seem to have accepted this season as a write off ... personally, I don´t want to see Marc Bergevin leave ... I want to see how he builds this club back to respectability ... I think it will take more than a high draft pick get this done ...
Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 25, 2016 9:27:56 GMT -5
Arpon Basu's thoughts....paraphrased...
-Bergevin may pull out of sell mode for Monday...
-If the Habs beat the hapless Leafs on Saturday, he just might stand pat...keep Weise (and re-sign)....and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Bergevin thinking that might be better than the 4th or 3rd round pick Weise would fetch.
-Still doesn't fill the hole at #1 centre. There is no one in our system. Only Galchenyuk...and he's still on the wing.
-Galchenyuk was pulled off centre during the second intermission in Chicago after the Habs had rag-dolled the Hawks in the second period....and he's never gone back. Still mystifies me.
-(Will Therrien be back as coach next year?) No...
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 25, 2016 9:56:34 GMT -5
What's crazy is we only have one less win than Detroit and Pittsburgh, the two teams occupying the Wildcard spots (30 to 29). The difference is Detroit has 11 overtime losses, and Pittsburgh has 8. We have a Conference low 5. What's even more crazy is that we have scored more goals than both those teams.
If the offers for Weise are in the 4th round range, and if he can be re-signed at a reasonable rate, then I have no issues with Bergevin standing pat at the deadline. Gilbert was his other "big" chip to deal, and he's out, and I don't see too many teams with the desire/cap room for guys like Emelin or Markov (and I wouldn't deal Markov anyways). So I would be okay with him standing pat, really. No point in dealing a guy like Eller just to make a deal (unless, of course, it's a good one).
But I think I will skip the internet for the month or two after that happens, as the howls of outrage will be undoubtedly hysterical.
On the other hand, I would expect and/or hope that he is very active at the draft and in the offseason. That's when he needs to do the most work, in my opinion. This deadline day, like the season really, is a throw-away.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2016 16:13:10 GMT -5
It would be really nice, though, to finish about 22nd or 23rd and not 17th. Much better ammo for the draft or any possible trades. Worst case scenario, which I can easily see happening if we don't play Scrivens more, is finishing just out of the playoffs and with the worst possible draft pick. I'm not sure if that's worse than finishing 16th and losing 4 straight in the first round.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 25, 2016 16:29:26 GMT -5
Re-signing Weise really does not make any sense right now. He has played well enough to get a good raise, one that would eat a few extra million out of the Berg's cap flexibilty. Like many, I really expect the real work to be done around the draft and free agency, so no need to further tie your hands right now. Given some of the minor deals to date and the draft picks that have passed hands, I think Weise gets more than a 4th for sure. I too want to avoid that limbo of winning enough to get out of reach of certain players in the draft, but still miss the playoffs. Berg is a fan of developing through the draft, so let's draft as high as we can this year. It is a good one in which to do it. Oh yeah, please play Scrivens more.
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2016 16:31:11 GMT -5
Tank tank tank.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2016 16:35:05 GMT -5
Weise is exactly the reason you want to draft ok. You will have players who improve on your team, and who serve a useful purpose, but aren't key and should be replaceable. That's Dale Weise. He's a good skater, not really a great scorer, not a penalty killer, a 3rd line guy. I can think of 4 guys on the Ice Caps who I'd put in his place without batting an eye. If he wants to stay in Montreal at a $1mm salary, ok, because that's the pay level for that type of guy. Ghetto, Carr, Hudon, McCarron, can all slot into the 3rd line with ease, at that salary or less, and replace Weise. Not complicated. We can't afford him at $3MM. Ii doubt he gets that from someone else, but he will probably get $2MM. Even that it too high. Your bucks have to go to your top 6 up front and your top 2 on D, maybe top 3. Fact of CAP life.
#PlayBen
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Post by folatre on Feb 25, 2016 21:49:31 GMT -5
Seventeen description of Weise is accurate, I think.
Third line ceiling guy, not an asset on special teams, for me offering Weise more than 3/$5.25M or 4/$6.5M is not smart roster construction.
Hopefully, Molson understand Habs have two too few top six forwards to be legitimate contender. To be honest, I feel concerned because the inactions/actions in recent past says the braintrust in the general manager suite and the braintrust behind the bench have endorsed Desharnais and Plekanec as #1/#2 centre. Bergevin could have moved one of them in summer of 2014 or last summer, but he did not. No one in hockey world thinks lifting silverware is possible with Desharnais and Plekanec down the middle. Maintain that status quo and keep Therrien behind the bench and no top six capable UFA is to see Montreal as place to flourish.
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Post by PTH on Feb 25, 2016 22:02:45 GMT -5
Seventeen description of Weise is accurate, I think. Third line ceiling guy, not an asset on special teams, for me offering Weise more than 3/$5.25M or 4/$6.5M is not smart roster construction. I thought last night's game against Washington was telling - yes we need a strong top pairing, but we had 3 AHL guys out there, and when properly used they got the job done. The game will be decided by Ovechkin vs Subban far more often than by their 4th line against Barberio.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2016 22:16:38 GMT -5
I think both Barberio and Pateryn have a lot more to give. I'd say they are definite 5/6 guys with potential to move into 3/4 roles, if they are given the opportunity. Markov is much better when he doesn't have the off ice issues to deal with. The last 3 or 4 games have shown he can still be a very strong defender. PK and Markov at the top pairing, Petry and Beaulieu at the second pairing, Pateryn and Barberio (for now) at 5/6. That's a damn good set of top 6 defensemen. Juulsen can move in when he's ready and Dietz or Lernout or Ellis are all guys who are coming on.
Up front, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Lehkonnen could make it, though I believe he's contracted with his Swedish team for next year. We've got Carr and Ghetto knocking on teh door and Reway in the wings, not to mention Hudon and McCarron. Unfortunately, McCarron is the only guy with size, but there's plenty of skill available for next year. If we could get Dubois, that would really be icing on the cake. Big, good scoring player. Love it. We're no where near done, but so critical to get a guy behind the bench who can work with young guys and mold them rather than punish them. We've already blown 4 years, let's not waste any more.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Feb 27, 2016 21:27:38 GMT -5
I am fed up with Bergereon talking about rebuilding. REbuilding implies you built something in the first place and the only thing Bergy has done is take a first place team on a club all time record from first place to oop.! He handed out fat contracts and sup ported his coaches moves. Montreal deserves better.
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Post by jkr on Mar 9, 2016 20:55:35 GMT -5
Wasn't sure where to put this. It's the latest from Friedman & thought # 8 caught my attention. It talks about Galchenyuk's move to centre. The part that bothered me was that Friedman suggests that MB considered moving Galchenyuk before the deadline. This team is thin on top 6 forwards. Why would they trade this guy? Forgot to put the link in: www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-making-the-nhls-development-model-better/
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Post by Skilly on Mar 9, 2016 21:10:12 GMT -5
Wasn't sure where to put this. It's the latest from Friedman & thought # 8 caught my attention. It talks about Galchenyuk's move to centre. The part that bothered me was that Friedman suggests that MB considered moving Galchenyuk before the deadline. This team is thin on top 6 forwards. Why would they trade this guy? My guess ... Drouin
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Post by jkr on Mar 9, 2016 21:24:40 GMT -5
Wasn't sure where to put this. It's the latest from Friedman & thought # 8 caught my attention. It talks about Galchenyuk's move to centre. The part that bothered me was that Friedman suggests that MB considered moving Galchenyuk before the deadline. This team is thin on top 6 forwards. Why would they trade this guy? My guess ... Drouin IMO that move doesn't work for me. It's depleting your top 6 to add to your top 6.
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Post by Skilly on Mar 9, 2016 22:08:30 GMT -5
IMO that move doesn't work for me. It's depleting your top 6 to add to your top 6. Oh I agree ... just stating who I think Bergevin was looking at for Galchenyuk's name to come up. Another possibility could have been Edmonton
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Post by frozone on Mar 10, 2016 12:06:39 GMT -5
Wasn't sure where to put this. It's the latest from Friedman & thought # 8 caught my attention. It talks about Galchenyuk's move to centre. The part that bothered me was that Friedman suggests that MB considered moving Galchenyuk before the deadline. This team is thin on top 6 forwards. Why would they trade this guy? Forgot to put the link in: www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-making-the-nhls-development-model-better/I dunno, I read it a little differently. "I think Marc Bergevin had a chance to pull the trigger at the deadline if he wished." My interpretation is that offers were coming in for Galchenyuk but MB said no thanks. It's still possible that MB was actively shopping him, but I prefer to believe that he wasn't. I just won't sleep well otherwise.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 10, 2016 12:38:08 GMT -5
Wasn't sure where to put this. It's the latest from Friedman & thought # 8 caught my attention. It talks about Galchenyuk's move to centre. The part that bothered me was that Friedman suggests that MB considered moving Galchenyuk before the deadline. This team is thin on top 6 forwards. Why would they trade this guy? Forgot to put the link in: www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-making-the-nhls-development-model-better/I dunno, I read it a little differently. "I think Marc Bergevin had a chance to pull the trigger at the deadline if he wished." My interpretation is that offers were coming in for Galchenyuk but MB said no thanks. It's still possible that MB was actively shopping him, but I prefer to believe that he wasn't. I just won't sleep well otherwise. That's pretty much what I read into it, as well ... Galchenyuk is playing outstanding hockey and he had a great game against Dallas' top line ... wonder how the fan base would react to Galchenyuk moving now ... Bergevin would be wise to have his house surrounded by two moats ... the inner one would be filled with gasoline ... that should stop those friggin' ants despondent fans ... Cheers.
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Post by franko on Mar 10, 2016 12:39:01 GMT -5
Wasn't sure where to put this. It's the latest from Friedman & thought # 8 caught my attention. It talks about Galchenyuk's move to centre. The part that bothered me was that Friedman suggests that MB considered moving Galchenyuk before the deadline. This team is thin on top 6 forwards. Why would they trade this guy? Forgot to put the link in: www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-making-the-nhls-development-model-better/I dunno, I read it a little differently. "I think Marc Bergevin had a chance to pull the trigger at the deadline if he wished." My interpretation is that offers were coming in for Galchenyuk but MB said no thanks. It's still possible that MB was actively shopping him, but I prefer to believe that he wasn't. I just won't sleep well otherwise. that's the way I looked at it too . . . course, I don't want Galchy traded so I'm going to go with the "way to go" theme on this.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Mar 10, 2016 13:55:09 GMT -5
The same type of thing was reported when the story was MB was seeing the market for trading PK but a couple of hockey insiders said it was mostly other GM's phoning MB to see if PK was on the table, which he wasn't. I like Friedman but some of this is just spinning facts to create a story.
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Post by blny on Mar 11, 2016 14:15:23 GMT -5
www.tsn.ca/crawford-ready-to-return-to-north-america-1.451765Crawford is ready to come back to North America. ZSC aren't renewing his contract, and that's more or less in response to what Crawford wants. Interesting comments about Matthews' offensive ability, and "not wanting to take that away from him". "there are plenty of great defensive players in the league." Refreshing. He's open to the AHL, or an assistant coaching job at the NHL level. He's my guy. Get him.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 14, 2016 10:59:41 GMT -5
Interesting comment from Berg today from GM meetings in Boca. Renaud Lavoie tweeted the following quote "Even with all the injuries, I am not happy with the situation and we're going to evaluate it at the end of the season".
Berg normally gives vanilla, noncommittal sound bites, so this is a little more telling that a sense of frustration about this season resonates amongst the suits in the C suites. However, talk is cheap, and I will judge based on the steps taken between April and the end of September.
I will give Berg the benefit of the doubt on this one until he proves otherwise. He usually is not that open about signalling the need for change. He plays things very close to his chest and does not give stuff away to the media. Hopefully, where there is smoke there is fire.
Will it be enough for the rabid HabsRus masses clamouring for changes this year? We shall see!!
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 14, 2016 11:48:37 GMT -5
Interesting comment from Berg today from GM meetings in Boca. Renaud Lavoie tweeted the following quote "Even with all the injuries, I am not happy with the situation and we're going to evaluate it at the end of the season". Good ... will be interesting to see what transpires ... Cheers.
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 16, 2016 13:08:51 GMT -5
Another option that should be considered is the "pre-free-agency-trade". I'm not sure I would do it for Stamkos (who I think is going to sign back in Tampa anyways), but for a guy like Okposo* I would consider pulling a Holmgren and going all in. If the Islanders aren't going to sign him (and from what I have read there have been no negotiations), or if he wants out of there (and apparently a lot of players do), then I would offer Desharnais and a 2nd round pick for him. Usually guys like that go for a 5th or 6th rounder, but we're tacking Desharnais on as well, hence the draft pick overpayment.
Then offer Okposo the moon. I don't know what it would take, and obviously less is better, but you don't want to trade for the guy and see him walk a week or two later. So something in the six years, $36 million range. Or whatever it takes to get it done (hopefully less!). We've cleared the space by giving up Desharnais, so cap room shouldn't be a problem.
* Substitute Okposo for whatever player you think Bergevin should target.
Then, win the lottery. I mean, why not, right?
Eller – Galchenyuk – Gallagher Pacioretty – Plekanec – Okposo Carr – Matthews – McCarron Flynn – Mitchell –Byron (Danault, Matteau)
Markov – Subban Beaulieu – Petry Emelin – Barberio Pateryn
PRICE Condon
Ah, dare to dream.
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Post by Skilly on Mar 16, 2016 13:16:36 GMT -5
Another option that should be considered is the "pre-free-agency-trade". I'm not sure I would do it for Stamkos (who I think is going to sign back in Tampa anyways), but for a guy like Okposo* I would consider pulling a Holmgren and going all in. If the Islanders aren't going to sign him (and from what I have read there have been no negotiations), or if he wants out of there (and apparently a lot of players do), then I would offer Desharnais and a 2nd round pick for him. Usually guys like that go for a 5th or 6th rounder, but we're tacking Desharnais on as well, hence the draft pick overpayment. Then offer Okposo the moon. I don't know what it would take, and obviously less is better, but you don't want to trade for the guy and see him walk a week or two later. So something in the six years, $36 million range. Or whatever it takes to get it done (hopefully less!). We've cleared the space by giving up Desharnais, so cap room shouldn't be a problem. * Substitute Okposo for whatever player you think Bergevin should target.Then, win the lottery. I mean, why not, right? Eller – Galchenyuk – Gallagher Pacioretty – Plekanec – Okposo Carr – Matthews – McCarron Flynn – Mitchell –Byron (Danault, Matteau) Markov – Subban Beaulieu – Petry Emelin – Barberio Pateryn PRICE Condon Ah, dare to dream. I like it! Not only cause I also suggested Okposo too, but because it is smart ... The only part I don't like it Carr ... some are high on him, but I think there has to be better options. And of course, if we don't get Matthews, we have to fill that whole. Or if we drop Eller back, that hole ...
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Post by blny on Mar 16, 2016 14:59:57 GMT -5
Im luke warm on the notion wrt Okposo. I think the move is a decent concept but should be reserved for real game breakers. Stamkos would fit that criteria for me. Okposo? Im not convinced. Sure, he is a legit top 6 forward with size and speed. My concern is consistency. I dont like his level of production considering he gets to play with Tavares.
If we're going to throw 6 years and $36 million at him, he needs to provide at least 25g and 60p. He should be good for the goals but i am skeptical about him hitting 60. Throwing that kind of cash at him really ups what they will have to pay Max.
EDIT: he's also a RW. If we can find our way into the top 3, we've got a center and two RWs to pick from - though Laine played both sides at the WJC I believe.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 16, 2016 17:51:16 GMT -5
Another option that should be considered is the "pre-free-agency-trade". I'm not sure I would do it for Stamkos (who I think is going to sign back in Tampa anyways), but for a guy like Okposo* I would consider pulling a Holmgren and going all in. If the Islanders aren't going to sign him (and from what I have read there have been no negotiations), or if he wants out of there (and apparently a lot of players do), then I would offer Desharnais and a 2nd round pick for him. Usually guys like that go for a 5th or 6th rounder, but we're tacking Desharnais on as well, hence the draft pick overpayment. Then offer Okposo the moon. I don't know what it would take, and obviously less is better, but you don't want to trade for the guy and see him walk a week or two later. So something in the six years, $36 million range. Or whatever it takes to get it done (hopefully less!). We've cleared the space by giving up Desharnais, so cap room shouldn't be a problem. * Substitute Okposo for whatever player you think Bergevin should target.Then, win the lottery. I mean, why not, right? Eller – Galchenyuk – Gallagher Pacioretty – Plekanec – Okposo Carr – Matthews – McCarron Flynn – Mitchell –Byron (Danault, Matteau) Markov – Subban Beaulieu – Petry Emelin – Barberio Pateryn PRICE Condon Ah, dare to dream. I'd be tempted to offer Plekanec on his own rather than DD and a 2nd rounder. I have been singularly uinimpressed with Plekanec's effort level since the team went south. Since Therrien's first season, Pleks has gone .70, .53, .73 and this year .66 ppg if he keeps at this season's pace, which is unlikely, since he's not scoring much lately. I think he's on the way down and to pay $6MM a year for a good penalty killer is senseless. Other than that, I like the idea.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 24, 2016 7:55:08 GMT -5
See any guys from the new faces on the ice who will be on the roster next year ... I'm wondering if Michael McCarron hasn't already won a job ... the guy is new, sure, but he's shown more leadership in his brief stint with the Habs than our existing captains have ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Mar 24, 2016 8:04:16 GMT -5
See any guys from the new faces on the ice who will be on the roster next year ... I'm wondering if Michael McCarron hasn't already won a job ... the guy is new, sure, but he's shown more leadership in his brief stint with the Habs than our existing captains have ... Cheers. Bottom six? Certainly.
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