|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 24, 2016 8:52:29 GMT -5
See any guys from the new faces on the ice who will be on the roster next year ... I'm wondering if Michael McCarron hasn't already won a job ... the guy is new, sure, but he's shown more leadership in his brief stint with the Habs than our existing captains have ... Cheers. Bottom six? Certainly. Maybe to start, but I'm hoping to see a few of his teammates graduate with him over the next few years ... hopefully that's part of the retooling process ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Mar 24, 2016 9:13:38 GMT -5
Maybe to start, but I'm hoping to see a few of his teammates graduate with him over the next few years ... hopefully that's part of the retooling process ... Cheers. His goal showed his ultimate value. Huge body, hard to move, and decent hands. I'm not convinced he's top 6 material, but I do think he can be a power play weapon. He's more than willing to park himself in the crease. Unlike Gallagher, goalies won't be seeing over him.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Mar 24, 2016 10:05:05 GMT -5
The Plekanec contract was ill-advised, but it might work out if he can be used as trade bait. We like slamming the guy on this board, but he's been a very durable and consistent player in the league over the past 10 years. Even this "bad year", he's on pace for 53 points which in this day and age is definitely "top 6" production. Put him on the Caps and he'd be 5th on the team in scoring, so it's always careful what you wish for when it comes to Pleks. You gotta make up those points. And I kind of give him a bit of a pass this year - all the vets have pretty much checked out.
Still, I would package him in the right deal for a younger and better alternative. Pleks and his 2 years plus our 1st round pick should have some currency. If you want to go bigger, I would consider adding Beaulieu who didn't make quite the leap I thought he would this year. I like him as a player and he's very cheap, but I'd move him in the right deal as well.
I agree Stamkos is a pipe dream, and the trade route is the only realistic way to upgrade the top 6. But man, wouldn't it be sweet to win the lottery and then use that buzz to entice Stamkos? Stamkos + Austin Matthews = Instant Rebuild.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 24, 2016 10:52:23 GMT -5
Still, I would package him in the right deal for a younger and better alternative. Pleks and his 2 years plus our 1st round pick should have some currency. If you want to go bigger, I would consider adding Beaulieu who didn't make quite the leap I thought he would this year. I like him as a player and he's very cheap, but I'd move him in the right deal as well. Players I'd ask about might be Matt Duschene and James Neal ... granted, Neal is not a centre, but he's a top-six guy who scored goals ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Mar 26, 2016 11:16:24 GMT -5
The Center Glut
This week we have had a few little tweets and items pop up that concern our centers. Heading into next year we have got to resolve this glut of centers that's bound to cause a bottlenecking in the development and acquisition of centres.
This week there was a tweet from Chris Custace, who interviewed Galchenyuk. He quotes Galchenyuk saying "I love playing centre". He goes on to say he feels more comfortable when he has the puck.
There was also a tweet from Nicolas Martineau, from TVA, who quotes Therrien as saying that the Habs will leave Mike McCarron at centre the rest of the year because " McCarron is more comfortable at centre". Hmmmmmm? I'm not going to dredge up the "more comfortable" comments last year about Galchenyuk.
We also found out this week that the Habs are one of a very few teams that are interested in bringing Vadim Shipachyov over from the KHL. He is a point a game, play making CENTRE, who is 29 years old. Bergevin shopping at the bargain bin again? Shipachyov has played well in the World Championships the past two years.
Right now on the team we have about nine players that can play Centre. Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Desharnais, McCarron, Mitchell, Flynn, De La Rose, Danault, and Eller And the possibility of Shipachyov.
Something has to be done. It will be a crying shame next year to have McCarron in St.John's only because we have this mess at centre. A lot of these guys are more comfortable at Center (Galchenyuk, McCarron, Desharnais) or can't play on the wing. The tea leaves are indicating that Eller will never see centre again, unless Bergevin starts moving some players
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Mar 26, 2016 11:40:57 GMT -5
I read that article too, Skilly. Shipachyof sounds like a creative centre who tends to shy away from heavy going. There was nothing in the article about him being defensively strong, so we can assume he's an offensive type centre. He's 29, so he's not a project. He either succeeds now or never. You are correct, though, that we may have a glut of centres. That, really is because MT is as stubborn as he is. Chucky is a given, Eller is a given on the 3rd line. That leaves, realistically, McCarron, Danault and Flynn (if he's re-signed. As you can tell, I'm writing off DD (minors), Pleks (trade) and Mitchell (RW). I believe Hudon is originally a right winger, so he's not an issue and in fact is a help as we need wingers. My line-up to start the year and not allowing for a draftee or signed UFA is
Patches - Chucky - Gallagher Carr - McCarron - Hudon XXX - Eller - XXX DLR - Flynn- Mitchell - Danault
I'm not totally sold on Ghetto, but we also have Lehkonen probably coming over and there are those two uncertain areas involving our draft choice and a possible UFA. Add those in and the 2nd and 3rd lines can do some switching. It would be a young team, with much of the strength on the back line. If we added a coach who could instill discipline and creativity to the forwards, I'd feel more comfortable about our team.
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Mar 26, 2016 22:39:45 GMT -5
Unlike previous spring/summer, this one will be full of uncertainties. Therrien, what will decide Bergevin? The overabundance of centres, who stays who goes? The lack of top six wingers, Bergevin too risk averse to address the issue?
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Mar 27, 2016 0:31:57 GMT -5
Oh I think Bergevin is quite tired of the status quo. I'm just not certain that he puts any blame on the coaching staff who are responsible for most of the non-injury problems with the team.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Apr 8, 2016 8:27:57 GMT -5
Arpon BasuAnalysis: Canadiens' woes go beyond Price's absenceNothing we haven't talked about here....but it's a good read. I'm glad he thinks that the damage had been done before all the injuries hit. Basu, on TSN690 this morning, thinks it's time the Bergevin to make a big trade...(asked if he thought Subban could be on the table)... .highly unlikely right now....but if it's going to be Subban, Bergevin has to get it right...
|
|
|
Post by blny on Apr 8, 2016 9:00:51 GMT -5
Arpon BasuAnalysis: Canadiens' woes go beyond Price's absenceNothing we haven't talked about here....but it's a good read. I'm glad he thinks that the damage had been done before all the injuries hit. Basu, on TSN690 this morning, thinks it's time the Bergevin to make a big trade...(asked if he thought Subban could be on the table)... .highly unlikely right now....but if it's going to be Subban, Bergevin has to get it right... Trading for goals is the hardest thing to do. We can trade for another finisher, but if Subban is the player used to get that player then we eliminate a huge piece of what helps to get the puck to the scoring end of the ice. Furthermore, the organization faces a time when the fans are perhaps more polarized than ever - and it happened quick. Trading Subban, imo, would only further polarize the fan base. IMO, I think it would turn out worse than the Roy trade both in what we got back and the impact on the fan base. If we look internally, one player who's perhaps done more to hurt our tank prospects is Galchenyuk. In the last 20 games (since Feb 24), he's got 20 points. That would have been around the time he got a chance to play center with Pacioretty. In the 21 games before that Jan 1 to Feb 22) he had 8 points. In other words, at a time when the team was struggling the most to score; when confidence was at an all time low, Therrien went almost 2 months with Galchenyuk mired on lower lines. Yah, Alex still has to work on the defensive side of his game, but he went from producing a point every 3 games to a point every game. I'm not saying that if he were given the role from the start of the year that he'd have 80 points, but he's scored 40% of his points in the last 25% season and half of his goals in that same time. All that with a power play that still sucks. What team out there is lining up to trade away goals???
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Apr 8, 2016 9:05:46 GMT -5
If Subban is the offer…a team would have to give up some goals, as they'd be getting a blue line offence generator.
The best target might be a team (potentially) brimming with productive forwards. Edmonton?
|
|
|
Post by blny on Apr 8, 2016 9:51:11 GMT -5
If Subban is the offer…a team would have to give up some goals, as they'd be getting a blue line offence generator. The best target might be a team (potentially) brimming with productive forwards. Edmonton? I wouldn't target anything less than the quality of a Jamie Benn. Dallas has the potential to lose Goligoski this summer, and that leaves the very good Klingberg on his own. Still, I think it's a huge deal that doesn't get us further ahead and Benn is UFA in a couple of years. He'll also never be the face of the franchise. He's just not that vocal guy.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Apr 8, 2016 11:02:59 GMT -5
If Subban is the offer…a team would have to give up some goals, as they'd be getting a blue line offence generator. The best target might be a team (potentially) brimming with productive forwards. Edmonton? U would think any return from Edmonton would put us back. Losing Subban a top 5 defence man in league for a couple of potential productive forwards leaves 38 year old Markov's as our #1 Dman
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Apr 8, 2016 12:36:26 GMT -5
Trading Subban is pure madness.
1. The argument that we trade him to acquire scoring doesn't make sense to me. Subban was on on pace with Max to be our most productive player points wise this season. We give up one of our best offensive players to try and get more offence? Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
2. Trading for goals may be hard to do, but trading for a #1 defenseman is even more difficult. We shop Subban and we create a huge hole in our lineup that will be difficult to fill. Just ask Edmonton fans how that gap in their lineup is working out for them.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Apr 8, 2016 18:08:25 GMT -5
The only deal I'd look at is one like this, with the Oilers in this case:
Draisaitl or Hall Nurse Edmonton's first choice this year
Expensive for Edmonton? You bet. But that's how much I value Subban. We talk about his offence, but just think of this last fact....we have given up one short handed goal every game that he's missed. How many players are worth one goal per game defensively? That's in Price territory. PK is excellent defensively at those things we pay little attention to, like getting back to the puck, controlling it under pressure and making a play to get it moving the other way, all with a guy draped over him. He's so good at that, and not having him on the PK, shows just how important he is.
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Apr 8, 2016 22:25:43 GMT -5
I agree, Seventeen. From value perspective, you do not give up a Norris Trophy #1 d-man in his prime who is under contract unless an organisation wants to pay a king ransom. And this does not even begin to quantify his commercial and social value in the city, which logic says Molson would be very sensitive to.
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Apr 8, 2016 23:05:01 GMT -5
I just don't see Subban being moved.... and as others have said, he'd fetch a king's ransom at this point. Plus, it's essentially impossible to figure out what might be on the table for him, making speculation pointless.
A few guys I do see as being on the block are Andrighetto, Eller and Beaulieu. With Dietz, Hanlon and Barberio in the fold, and Emelin being essentially untradeable, Beaulieu's lack of progress makes him trade bait. With Eller not finding a clear role for himself, I see him as expendable as well. He's not consistent enough as a 3C, and doesn't score enough to be on the top 2 lines, and at his salary isn't an option as a 3d or 4th line winger, yet at his size with skill I think some other teams would give him a chance. Andrighetto isn't scoring enough for a top-6 role and isn't suited to the lower lines, he'd be readily traded if I were GM. Heck, I'd rather go out and sign Weise as a UFA than keep Ghetto around.
And we need to add at least one top-6 winger for essentially those 2 pieces; if the top line stays as it is, we have to get Plek some help if we want a second scoring line. We can hope for one UFA (Boedkker?), but we'll need to shed salary to add another.
I was very impressed with Lindgren and who knows, in a few years if Price's injuries start adding up, maybe we'll have an in-house solution on hand.
Pax-Galchy-Gally Boedker-Plek-scoring RW for Beaulieu Danault-DD-Carr Flynn-Mitchell-Byron Matteau/Lessio/DLR
|
|
|
Post by franko on Apr 9, 2016 8:10:24 GMT -5
A few guys I do see as being on the block are Andrighetto, Eller and Beaulieu. With Dietz, Hanlon and Barberio in the fold, and Emelin being essentially untradeable, Beaulieu's lack of progress makes him trade bait. With Eller not finding a clear role for himself, I see him as expendable as well. He's not consistent enough as a 3C, and doesn't score enough to be on the top 2 lines, and at his salary isn't an option as a 3d or 4th line winger, yet at his size with skill I think some other teams would give him a chance. Andrighetto isn't scoring enough for a top-6 role and isn't suited to the lower lines, he'd be readily traded if I were GM. Heck, I'd rather go out and sign Weise as a UFA than keep Ghetto around. and round and round we go.players on the block are players that aren't quite good enough, and we want players who are in return. I agree with the need, I just don't think our offers are going to be enough to get it. UFA and salary dump. about our only hope. oh, and a coach that will use the players he has/gets appropriately. but I fear a quick return to Pax-DD-Gally Galchy-Plek-Andri/Danault once Price comes back.
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Apr 15, 2016 0:08:40 GMT -5
I'd classify the roster, put the players' names in three concentric rings. The innermost would not be subject to trades, the outermost would obviously be on the market, and the middle ring might be traded. The object would be to add more players worthy of being included in the innermost ring. The first moves would taken in conjunction with the draft. Would the ninth pick bring in someone with the potential to be included in the innermost ring? As for trades, I'd be willing to sacrifice the 2016-17 season to secure young players with great potential at any position other than goal. The Habs shouldn't be anal retentive. It's not essential to keep Markov, Emelin, Plekanec, or any other thirtyish player. The Bruins sacrificed Lucic but they didn't finish any lower than they did in 2015.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Apr 20, 2016 9:33:42 GMT -5
It will never happen, but for grins and giggles, let's trade Price…
Since it will never happen, I can play Hockey God and assume that I can force anything I want to happen, to happen. So…
* We win the lottery.
* Edmonton falls no further than 4th. But since we control the universe, let's say they end up with the 2nd or 3rd.
* At #1 we take Matthews. D'uh.
* We then trade Price, Scherbak, Emelin and Desharnais to Edmonton for (let's say) the third overall, Taylor Hall and Cam Talbot.
* We then flip the 3rd overall to Vancouver, for the 4th overall, and Jordan Subban. Not his brother, but a Barberio-like player. We then take Dubois. Or if you don't like the marketing aspect of it all, simply take one of the Finns.
* We make the salary cap $74 million, which is where Bettman said it would be, give or take.
We've sent approximately $14 million in salary away (6.5, 4.1 and 3.5), and taken back approximately $18 million (6, 4.2, two rookies at 4 each). Leaving us at about $68 million, or $6 million or so in cap space. You can use that to get a veteran defenseman (Yandle?), or a backup goalie (Cam Ward at $3.5 million?)
Projected lineup:
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - McCarron Hall - Plekanec - Dubois Eller - Matthews - Gallagher Danault - Mitchell - Byron (Matteau, Carr)
Markov - P.K. Subban Beaulieu - Petry Barberio - Pateryn (J. Subban)
Talbot, Condon/Ward
|
|
|
Post by blny on Apr 20, 2016 9:45:51 GMT -5
It will never happen, but for grins and giggles, let's trade Price… Since it will never happen, I can play Hockey God and assume that I can force anything I want to happen, to happen. So… * We win the lottery. * Edmonton falls no further than 4th. But since we control the universe, let's say they end up with the 2nd or 3rd. * At #1 we take Matthews. D'uh. * We then trade Price, Scherbak, Emelin and Desharnais to Edmonton for (let's say) the third overall, Taylor Hall and Cam Talbot. * We then flip the 3rd overall to Vancouver, for the 4th overall, and Jordan Subban. Not his brother, but a Barberio-like player. We then take Dubois. Or if you don't like the marketing aspect of it all, simply take one of the Finns. * We make the salary cap $74 million, which is where Bettman said it would be, give or take. We've sent approximately $14 million in salary away (6.5, 4.1 and 3.5), and taken back approximately $18 million (6, 4.2, two rookies at 4 each). Leaving us at about $68 million, or $6 million or so in cap space. You can use that to get a veteran defenseman (Yandle?), or a backup goalie (Cam Ward at $3.5 million?) Projected lineup: Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - McCarron Hall - Plekanec - Dubois Eller - Matthews - Gallagher Danault - Mitchell - Byron (Matteau, Carr) Markov - P.K. Subban Beaulieu - Petry Barberio - Pateryn (J. Subban) Talbot, Condon/Ward Sleep, perchance to dream! Don't forget about the $1.33 million in buyout to PAP. That's on the books next season.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 20, 2016 10:26:28 GMT -5
It will never happen, but for grins and giggles, let's trade Price… Since it will never happen, I can play Hockey God and assume that I can force anything I want to happen, to happen. So… * We win the lottery. * Edmonton falls no further than 4th. But since we control the universe, let's say they end up with the 2nd or 3rd. * At #1 we take Matthews. D'uh. * We then trade Price, Scherbak, Emelin and Desharnais to Edmonton for (let's say) the third overall, Taylor Hall and Cam Talbot. * We then flip the 3rd overall to Vancouver, for the 4th overall, and Jordan Subban. Not his brother, but a Barberio-like player. We then take Dubois. Or if you don't like the marketing aspect of it all, simply take one of the Finns. * We make the salary cap $74 million, which is where Bettman said it would be, give or take. We've sent approximately $14 million in salary away (6.5, 4.1 and 3.5), and taken back approximately $18 million (6, 4.2, two rookies at 4 each). Leaving us at about $68 million, or $6 million or so in cap space. You can use that to get a veteran defenseman (Yandle?), or a backup goalie (Cam Ward at $3.5 million?) Projected lineup: Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - McCarron Hall - Plekanec - Dubois Eller - Matthews - Gallagher Danault - Mitchell - Byron (Matteau, Carr) Markov - P.K. Subban Beaulieu - Petry Barberio - Pateryn (J. Subban) Talbot, Condon/Ward Well, while we're giggling about it, are you sure you don't want to trade Jeff Hackett while you're at it ... man, that must have been back in '98/'99, I think ... seriously, if Marc Bergevin traded Carey Price, he'd be trading the franchise and (arguably) the game's best player ... I really think it would be hard finding values to replace those things he brings to the organization ... I'd also say he's probably; nay, IS the inspirational leader of our team ... I like your defensive pairings only I'd flip Nathan Beaulieu and Andre Markov ... I just don't see him and PK Subban being as effective a pair as they have been in the past ... having said that, I think playing with Jeff Petry would be a good fit for Markov ... Jordan Subban would a nice addition but so would Morgan Ellis ... and while I'm still giggling, what would Malcolm Subban do under Stephane Waite's tutelage ... just askin' ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Apr 20, 2016 18:00:49 GMT -5
Jordan-Carmichael Subban is not very good ... Not the game I saw him play anyway
Another note ... If we were to trade Price, we would get the perverbial first line star, blue chip prospect, and first rounder (and I believe one other piece).
Hall , check first line star Their 2016 1st rounder, Check Talbot , check
They have to pony up a prospect ... I suggest Nurse.
And that's just what I want for Price, ..., in your scenario we are adding pieces, (to dump salary no doubt, which has value) but I think another piece should come our way in addition to what I want for Price.
Price is Pricey
|
|
|
Post by blny on Apr 20, 2016 18:43:29 GMT -5
Jordan-Carmichael Subban is not very good ... Not the game I saw him play anyway Another note ... If we were to trade Price, we would get the perverbial first line star, blue chip prospect, and first rounder (and I believe one other piece). Hall , check first line star Their 2016 1st rounder, Check Talbot , check They have to pony up a prospect ... I suggest Nurse. And that's just what I want for Price, ..., in your scenario we are adding pieces, (to dump salary no doubt, which has value) but I think another piece should come our way in addition to what I want for Price. Price is Pricey lol Neither of the younger Subbans are developing like PK. I'm still nervous at the idea of taking a goalie back in trade. Talbot is decent, but can he handle the pressure of playing in Montreal and the pressure of replacing Carey. It may not be of the magnitude of the Roy deal - Thibault never had a chance - but it's big.
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 20, 2016 20:32:35 GMT -5
Retool before next season. Is that really necessary? We can keep management in place, coaches in place, farm team management and farm team players that missed the playoffs again, same scouting, same players and hope that we enjoy an injury free year to go from the worst team in the league to Stanley cup winners in Bergeron's fifth year. No changes necessary. Good plan. Continuity.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 21, 2016 10:12:11 GMT -5
Apologies if anyone has already mentioned it, but I heard Francois Gagnon mention yesterday that Dale Weise went on the record as saying he'd love to play in Montreal again after the end of this season ... would you entertain bringing him back ... does Montreal have too many lower-lines players as it is now ... is he a good fit, or should Berg move on ...
Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Apr 21, 2016 11:10:41 GMT -5
I'm not all gaga over getting Weise back. Maybe, if its for the right price, but those bottom 6 guys have to be cheap. A club's money has to go into the elite players, or at least those guys who are well above average. You manage the CAP by paying lower level guys less and by having a stream of good youngsters joining the team on a consistent basis. I don't know if Weise fits into that model unless he takes less than he thinks he's worth. And I'm not sure he's worth all that much anyway. He put up points playing on top lines where he was carried rather than helping carry. Woudl he put up those same numbers on the 3rd or 4th lines? Anyway, colour me skeptical.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Apr 21, 2016 11:25:29 GMT -5
In Chicago, he's been a healthy scratch in 3 of the 4 playoff games. In Game 3, he got only 6:29 of ice.
So, why wouldn't he want to come back to Montreal? Top 6 assignments...PP time....over-valued, therefore over-paid....I can see it now...
I'm sure Q and Bowman are thrilled to hear Weise's comments, too, considering the team's current predicament...
No wonder we've gone nowhere without Price at the top of his game...
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Apr 21, 2016 18:06:46 GMT -5
I'm not all gaga over getting Weise back. Maybe, if its for the right price, but those bottom 6 guys have to be cheap. A club's money has to go into the elite players, or at least those guys who are well above average. You manage the CAP by paying lower level guys less and by having a stream of good youngsters joining the team on a consistent basis. I don't know if Weise fits into that model unless he takes less than he thinks he's worth. And I'm not sure he's worth all that much anyway. He put up points playing on top lines where he was carried rather than helping carry. Woudl he put up those same numbers on the 3rd or 4th lines? Anyway, colour me skeptical. I'd love to get Weise back... at the same, 1.25M salary, for a series of short-term deals. He's a useful support player who can step up on a higher line for a short while. Our RW depth is nil so adding him could only help... only once someone takes both the #2 and #3 RW slots would Weise be redundant. But if he's looking for a 9M/3y type of payday, I wish him good luck. Elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Apr 21, 2016 18:50:56 GMT -5
Weise is a $1 million player. If he's prepared to play for the same pay perhaps, but I think there are some kids that can give as much and for less than that.
He and Flash played 15 regular season games for the Hawks. Neither had a goal.
|
|