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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 23, 2003 21:06:58 GMT -5
Only a RFA...not a UFA...
He can't apply to the Lapointe rule...he hasn't been in the league long enough..
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 23, 2003 21:07:56 GMT -5
another small problem with this trade boys...Tream 990 reported Sudstum is a free agent at season's end. I sure as hell hope they don't pay him more than 1.8 he's making now. Not for 2 goals and 7 assists. We have a history of doing dumb things like that. Pay for potential instead of production. Good ... I hoped it wouldn't be something like 4 year left to his contract
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Post by Raven on Jan 23, 2003 21:08:49 GMT -5
not the point marc. read the rest of my post. The part about paying for potential rather than production. Wanna bet he's getting signed for 2 million next year? I'll bet you 100$ right now.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 23, 2003 21:09:37 GMT -5
He will because it's a 10% increase in salary. CBA rules.
AS has got to have something else happening......
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Post by Gord on Jan 23, 2003 21:10:37 GMT -5
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Post by PTH on Jan 23, 2003 21:12:59 GMT -5
another small problem with this trade boys...Tream 990 reported Sudstum is a free agent at season's end. I sure as hell hope they don't pay him more than 1.8 he's making now. Not for 2 goals and 7 assists. We have a history of doing dumb things like that. Pay for potential instead of production. The way the CBA is set up, players never have to take pay cuts, so yeah, Sundy will be making 1.8 or more. No automatic raise though, he's not below-average in salary.
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Post by Raven on Jan 23, 2003 21:13:22 GMT -5
Audette cleared waivers. Brisebois is making 4 mil per. Garon might leave us. Hell, why would I resign with MTL when Theo is only 24 years old and looks to be with us for the rest of his career. If I were Garon, I wouldn't wanna play 2nd fidle to Theo my entire career. I'd jump on the free agency train and ride it all night long.
We are in bad shape. We're turning into the bloody Rangers guys. We're overpaying hasbeens that we can't get rid of.
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Post by PTH on Jan 23, 2003 21:13:58 GMT -5
Man this thread is gonna be a HabsRus record for posts in a thread ;D Marc, why do you obsess over thread lengths and number of posts ? Neither means anything, the best debates IMO don't go over 20 replies or so, there's only so much to be said on a given subject.
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Post by PTH on Jan 23, 2003 21:15:21 GMT -5
This is a money trade more than anything. However, is AS stockpiling future AHLer's and looking to trade Ward and/or Benoit to improve the big team now? We all know AS isn't enthralled with Ward or he would be up playing now, IMO. Both Gratton and Ward were available at the waiver draft, so don't expect to be getting anything. As to Ward, I think AS might have wanted to give him one solid, un-interrupted season - why call him up to play him on a 4th line every 3d game when he's dominating in the AHL ? Next season we'll know AS's real intentions.
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Post by PTH on Jan 23, 2003 21:17:34 GMT -5
Audette cleared waivers. Brisebois is making 4 mil per. Garon might leave us. Hell, why would I resign with MTL when Theo is only 24 years old and looks to be with us for the rest of his career. If I were Garon, I wouldn't wanna play 2nd fidle to Theo my entire career. I'd jump on the free agency train and ride it all night long. . Theo is 26 - and Garon might think that he'll get a real chance here, at least as a regular backup, and from there he can get traded once he's made a bit of a name for himself. And MTL will be willing to give him a 1-way NHL contract, too. That and some real playing time might be enough to keep him.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 23, 2003 21:19:14 GMT -5
another small problem with this trade boys...Tream 990 reported Sudstum is a free agent at season's end. I sure as hell hope they don't pay him more than 1.8 he's making now. Not for 2 goals and 7 assists. We have a history of doing dumb things like that. Pay for potential instead of production. If SJ is paying 25% of his salary, then $1.8million x .25 = $450,000. The season is roughly half done, so $1.8million/2 = $900,000 at his full salary. $900,000 - $450,000 = $450,000 for Niklas' services for the remainder of the season. Plus we send $1.8 million (a half season's worth of Hackett) the other way. $1.8million(Hackett) - $450,000(Sundstrom) = $1.35million savings for Uncle George. That $1.35million will cover the buyout of the remainder of Therrien's contract.
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Post by Viper on Jan 23, 2003 21:23:31 GMT -5
Theo is 26 - and Garon might think that he'll get a real chance here, at least as a regular backup, and from there he can get traded once he's made a bit of a name for himself. And MTL will be willing to give him a 1-way NHL contract, too. That and some real playing time might be enough to keep him. well the fact that he already cleared waiver's this season once should tell him he better take that chance your speaking of PTH. Considering nobody else thought of his services to be useful enough to grab him.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 23, 2003 21:23:49 GMT -5
Doc you would have traded Komisarek for Mclaren? yes Mclaren is only 25 but he has had contract issues. Why isn't he playing this year? Didnt he say he would never play for Boston again before any negotiations were made? Sounds like a good character guy to me. Anyways my point is if you value him higher than the chance that Komo will be better than I can understand how you feel. I just like our chances with Komo in 2 or 3 years than a fat and out of shape Mclaren today Theo wasn't easy to sign and even held out once. I am sure you don't feel his contract issues lower his value in any way... Marc: McLaren was a high first rounder, he could be part of the NHL elite. He's a force... He's not just a defensive dmen.
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Post by hab1fan on Jan 23, 2003 21:24:53 GMT -5
Both Gratton and Ward were available at the waiver draft, so don't expect to be getting anything. As to Ward, I think AS might have wanted to give him one solid, un-interrupted season - why call him up to play him on a 4th line every 3d game when he's dominating in the AHL ? Next season we'll know AS's real intentions. Yes, but they weren't leading the AHL in scoring then. Although I do like the idea of leaving them in the AHL IF the plan is to bring them up next year. Or, trade them while their stock is as high as it ever will be in the Montreal organization. Either way if we are out it by the trading deadline we'll see Garon play 12 games for sure.
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Post by Gord on Jan 23, 2003 21:26:46 GMT -5
I don't believe Audette can already have cleared waivers, it's my understanding that teams have 48 hours to stake a claim. Failing that, it's hello Bulldogs.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 23, 2003 21:27:20 GMT -5
Fournier is saying on CKAC Hackett was starting to b*tch about not playing recently.....he was starting to get pissed off...
Maybe AS wanted to eliminate a potential malcontent ASAP?
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 23, 2003 21:27:22 GMT -5
Audette cleared waivers. Brisebois is making 4 mil per. Garon might leave us. Hell, why would I resign with MTL when Theo is only 24 years old and looks to be with us for the rest of his career. If I were Garon, I wouldn't wanna play 2nd fidle to Theo my entire career. I'd jump on the free agency train and ride it all night long. We are in bad shape. We're turning into the bloody Rangers guys. We're overpaying hasbeens that we can't get rid of. Yep. Have a beer. It's easier to take after a few gulps.
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Post by HFTO on Jan 23, 2003 21:28:12 GMT -5
I'm pretty disappointed AS seems to always have the same answer he always says he had no choices.The only way this thing turns in our favor is if AS pulls a gem out of the 2004 draft with the 3rd rounder.IMO Sundstrom does little to improve us...we'll have to pray that he can surprise us. what else can AS do probably nothing since all we have to offer is under sized overpaid crybaby smurfs. HFTO
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 23, 2003 21:29:51 GMT -5
Do you guys realize that there are over thirty of us on line and another 15 or 20 lurkers? Hope we don't crash the server. Guys, we are homers and xonophobes. We got a good return on Hackett. Sundstrom is the "NEW" Hab type of player. Look at Ottawa and look at Sunstrom and tell me he is not of that mold. Savard has a clear image of what he wants a Hab player to be like. The 3rd rounder was a bonus. We are talking about Hackett who is WAAAY overpriced for a backup. Plus we have a chance to keep Garon. Win. Win. Win. Giving up Jillson for Mclaren was STUPID on Sna Jose's part but whart could WE do about it? Hackett helps the B's but only for the VERY short temr. It's not like we gave them Theo. Big winner is B's Winner is Andre San Jose got HOSED. (not our problem) This is NOT a steal by Savard. Just one of his "average" Savardian type trades. What can I say, the man likes mediocre players. BTW, this was a BRILLIANT advertising campaign by Boston. They hyped Kyle until some MORON GM gave them what they wanted. Oh well. So much for my "inside information". None of them had even heard of the deal. Could this have been a "One hour or free" deals or wrose, "now or never" type? Hmmm......
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 23, 2003 21:37:31 GMT -5
Best case scenario:
-Bruins don't make playoffs with Hackett. Or make em and choke in first round again
-He doesn't re-sign with Bruins
-Jillson's huge defensive holes are exposed and he is deemed a bust or another Drake Berehowski.
-Sundstrom becomes a good 3rd liner for Habs and re-gains his 2000-01 touch(49 points I believe)
-Habs can do something with that 3rd rounder
-McLaren shows he is not as good as hyped....
-Theo regains his form of last year
That would be a real optimistic view.....
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Post by legaspesien on Jan 23, 2003 21:37:52 GMT -5
It took me long to read that all since I had to live shortly after the news
I'm happy with the trade It's a good trade for us since Hackett might win some games for us against NYI,TB,Rags'etc It's not like we are fighting with Boston they are ahead of us Boston on the short term is better OK but it also helps us...And we get a fresh 27 years old not a 32 or 34 or near 40 body
I was listening to Damphrousse on the radio earlier and he said we are receiving a decent players it's better than losing everythig
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Post by Yossarian on Jan 23, 2003 21:38:19 GMT -5
The Bruins or McLaren's agent, or both, should be commended for propping up his value. It will be interesting to see what he signs for. My guess is he will be grossly overpaid. McLaren is a big body, but is not as mobile as you would like for the calibre of d-man the Bruins and his agent feel he is. The bottom line is he is no future Norris trophy winner.
My guess is that if the Habs offer Garon an extension before the end of the season, of the one way variety, he jumps at it like like a fly on sh#t, and that has nothing to do with him never having to breath Hamilton's fine air again. He serves as Theo's apprentice for a few years, plays 10-15 games, and makes a name for himself. At the same time it increases his trade value to the Habs until one day Michaud or Tarasov is ready. Who knows, maybe its Theo's name that is bandied about in trade rumors in a few years because Garon steals the show.
There is a glut of really good young, starting goalies in the NHL right now, many with pads the size of hogs. The market for starting UFA goaltenders is nil, other than the Bruins. His value is simply not that high. To get a third rounder, and a third liner, better than Audette, Dackell, and Czerk, is about as well as one can do. Its a matter of whether you would rather keep Hackett and get nothing, or get what they did. It was not worth overpaying for McLaren by giving Hainsey or Komi.
Boston getting better? Yeah, as Habs fans its painful. At the end of the day, AS is accountable to his team only.
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Post by Swane on Jan 23, 2003 21:41:27 GMT -5
AS knew San Jose was going to deal Hack to Boston. No team would give up Sundstrom, a 3rd and cash to get a goalie they would use as a back-up for half the year. He also probably assumes that the B's won't ante up to sign Hack as UFA. If he plays well for them at all during the playoffs, he will be well out of their price range, especially with Thornton and Samsonov becoming free agents this year. So basically Savard gave the B's a goalie who will only help them for this season, when we have no chance of winning the cup.
Jillson has always been considered a better prospect than Hainsey. So basically we would have had to deal Komi and Hack for McLaren. I would never make that deal and frankly I think San Jose got hosed. Hackett has been one of my favourite Habs, but he was a UFA and AS did a good job getting Sundstrom, a 3rd and 450 grand for him considering the surplus of quality goalies in the NHL right now. Sundstrom is a better player than Dackell, Audette and Chow. Wouldn't we all rather have another Bulis in our lineup than one of those three?
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 23, 2003 21:42:07 GMT -5
I don't believe Audette can already have cleared waivers, it's my understanding that teams have 48 hours to stake a claim. Failing that, it's hello Bulldogs. There does seem to be a general misunderstanding of how waivers work. Here are the official rules from the NHL CBA - letsgopens.com/nhl_cba.php?id=1313.15. A Member Club desiring to obtain waivers on a player subject to the provisions of this Article shall notify the NHL of such request by facsimile transmission ("FAX"). The resulting procedure will be conducted by the Central Registry which shall notify all parties affected by the request and report the result to the parties entitled thereto. 13.16. The request for waivers by the Central Registry shall specify time within which a waiver claim must be made in accordance with the following schedule: (a) for requests dispatched from September 15th to June 1st: DISPATCHED WAIVER PERIOD EXPIRY DATE Monday 48 hours Wednesday (Noon) Tuesday 48 hours Thursday (Noon) Wednesday 48 hours Friday (Noon) Thursday 48 hours Saturday (Noon) Friday 96 hours Tuesday (Noon) Saturday 72 hours Tuesday Noon) Sunday 72 hours Wednesday (Noon) (b) for requests dispatched at all other times of the year, a minimum of one hundred and twenty (120) hours from the time of dispatch of the request. (c) If no Club has claimed the player within the time specified in the request for waivers the requesting Club may loan such player to a club of another league. --------------------------------------------------- Audette must stay on waivers, unless another team claims him, until noon Saturday.
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Post by PTH on Jan 23, 2003 21:44:40 GMT -5
Yes, but they weren't leading the AHL in scoring then. Although I do like the idea of leaving them in the AHL IF the plan is to bring them up next year. Or, trade them while their stock is as high as it ever will be in the Montreal organization. Either way if we are out it by the trading deadline we'll see Garon play 12 games for sure. Leading the AHL in scoring means very little.... I doubt either one is worth anything more than a 5th rounder or something in that range. Once they've proven something in the bigs, then their value might grow, but not before that.
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Post by Swane on Jan 23, 2003 21:45:02 GMT -5
There is a glut of really good young, starting goalies in the NHL right now, many with pads the size of hogs. The market for starting UFA goaltenders is nil, other than the Bruins. His value is simply not that high. To get a third rounder, and a third liner, better than Audette, Dackell, and Czerk, is about as well as one can do. Its a matter of whether you would rather keep Hackett and get nothing, or get what they did. It was not worth overpaying for McLaren by giving Hainsey or Komi. as I was writing you posted everything I had to say. I've got to learn to type faster
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 23, 2003 21:45:36 GMT -5
Bozo...
Habs play at 2 Saturday so it doesn't matter. Tomorrow or Saturday before the game. Doesn't matter when Audette is sent down there.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 23, 2003 21:51:30 GMT -5
Bozo... Habs play at 2 Saturday so it doesn't matter. Tomorrow or Saturday before the game. Doesn't matter when Audette is sent down there. Audette *can't* be sent down tomorrow. *If* Savard is sending someone down tomorrow, as you quoted him as saying, it will have to be someone other than Audette. Audette can *only* be sent down after noon Saturday. Perhaps Savard meant to say that someone will be sent down Saturday. But we already know that "Dead Dog Donald" has a ticket to Hamilton waiting for him Saturday
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 23, 2003 21:53:24 GMT -5
Best case scenario: -Bruins don't make playoffs with Hackett. Or make em and choke in first round again -He doesn't re-sign with Bruins -Jillson's huge defensive holes are exposed and he is deemed a bust or another Drake Berehowski. -Sundstrom becomes a good 3rd liner for Habs and re-gains his 2000-01 touch(49 points I believe) -Habs can do something with that 3rd rounder -McLaren shows he is not as good as hyped.... -Theo regains his form of last year That would be a real optimistic view..... It's not like you're dreaming. This scenario is likely. More realisticaly i'd say Bruins make playoff and go far far into them He re-signs with them Jillson defensive holes prevent him from being more than #6 and a PP specialist Sundstrom become a good 4th liner 25 points Habs get a jewel with this 3rd rounder McClaren is a good 2nd to 4th Theo has already regained last year form
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Post by PTH on Jan 23, 2003 21:54:31 GMT -5
Audette *can't* be sent down tomorrow. *If* Savard is sending someone down tomorrow, as you quoted him as saying, it will have to be someone other than Audette. Audette can *only* be sent down after noon Saturday. Perhaps Savard meant to say that someone will be sent down Saturday. But we already know that "Dead Dog Donald" has a ticket to Hamilton waiting for him Saturday Could be Hossa, he hasn't done much for a while now. MT plays Hossa on the 1st line, we change coaches and Hossa loses it and gets sent down.... I love the storyline there ;-)
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