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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Jan 23, 2003 23:57:43 GMT -5
Sundstrom is a smallish, softish, overpaid, unproductive player, that don't work too hard. You don't see that kind stick in Ottawa too long. For sure: Audette, Berezin, Chow, Sundstrom. We see a trend no question there. slow down... how much have you actually seen of Niklas Sundstrom? The odd game, maybe 2 a year when the Habs play them? He's not big or very physical, but he's average and can hold his own. Overpaid? He doesn't even make 2 mil a year, he makes barely over the league average. If you think numbers tell the whole story, then maybe he could be considered slightly overpaid, but this guy does all the little things that don't get noticed but are very important. He is not a floater... guy always worked very hard and played very responsibly, he doesn't deserve to be lumped in with guys like Berezin and Czercawski. One of his best characteristics, other than his headsy play, very good skating ability and great defensive play, is his versatility. You can plug him in with a variety of players and he'll get the job done. He was part of that big line with Forsberg and Naslund for team Sweden years ago, he put up numbers with Gretzky, and formed one of the best checking lines in the league with Thornton and Ricci.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Jan 24, 2003 0:02:29 GMT -5
You also gotta figure, maybe you have an overabundance of 3rd liners now and he's not what you are most in need of, but the thing to remember here is that Savard has a plan of what his 'finished' team will look like, and Sundstrom is probably on the 3rd line of that. He's better than the 3rd liners you've got now, which makes him an upgrade. You can't always knock the ball outta the park everytime ya swing, but these seeing eye singles that move a runner up are an important part of the game too. I know I'd definitely take him back on our 3rd line.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Jan 24, 2003 0:07:13 GMT -5
Lastly.... I don't think you can say the SJ got hosed in this deal, not yet and maybe not ever. For one, they have replacements for Sundstrom waiting in the wings (no pun intended) so they'll be fine up front, Hackett obviously meant nothing to them, and Jillson, while a very good prospect, is still just that, a prospect. This is a team that's ready to win now, to take the next step (even if their record this year doesn't bear that out), and a guy like McLaren will have a bigger impact on their team than Sundstrom and Jillson would. All good teams are built from the goal out, and in front of Nabakov teams are going to have go through Stuart, McLaren, Marchment, McGillis, Rathje and Hannan to even get to Evgeni.
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Post by habwest on Jan 24, 2003 0:14:43 GMT -5
Ranger R thanks for the first hand report on Sundstrom. He doesn't sound that bad at all.
You also made a good point about SJ, ie that they're looking to win now and not 3 or 4 years down the road when many of their talented core will likely be past their prime. I hadn't considered that. From that point of view taking a chance on McLaren ( and his injuries and the question of whether he's a tad slow) makes some sense. If he pans out it might help them reach the playoffs and make a run, if not this year then next.
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Post by PTH on Jan 24, 2003 0:15:42 GMT -5
One of his best characteristics, other than his headsy play, very good skating ability and great defensive play, is his versatility. You can plug him in with a variety of players and he'll get the job done. He was part of that big line with Forsberg and Naslund for team Sweden years ago, he put up numbers with Gretzky, and formed one of the best checking lines in the league with Thornton and Ricci. Hmm, can fill any role, but doesn't get much going on his own, apparently. Reminds me of Benoit Brunet.... we all liked the guy, but he's not really missed, either.
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Post by Vichab on Jan 24, 2003 0:20:07 GMT -5
I like the trade. AS did well.
Firstly, as i see it we are the only ones that are not taking a risk. SJ has a huge risk in McL as not only is he injury prone he and the Bs seem to do more of the talk than the walk. given how good they looked last year it all came apart in the playoffs. And they're dreaming if they think he's going to help them this season. after sitting out this long and being injury prone they better ease him in and even then it will take time for him to get his groove.But i think everyone is agreed that SJ got the worst of this deal.
I think the B are taking a risk. firstly Hack is a rental at this time so they may have nothing to show for McL at the end of the season except Jillson who has his liabilties and may not pan out at all and even then it won't be for a few years. I love Hack and have nothing but respect for him ( i will have a hard time as i hate the Bs but i would like to see Hack do well. Did anyone sees his post trade interview where he said he was proud to have been a Hab. Good luck jeff!) but I'm not so sure he is the elite goalie everyone thinks. One commentator was questioning whether he will be the #1 guy in Btown.
the Habs know what they are getting. He is a bona fide 2nd-3rd liner, an upgrade from our present players, youwho can play the pk, where we need help. He may even have I think people are selling him short. He has good playoff stats which is how i judge a player. He was also on that Swede olympic team which if not for Salo might be wearing gold right now. Bottom line is he is a player. He may not be what we need right now but he makes others expendable and leaves AS options open.
Put this together with the possibilty that we could get nothing for hack and that we pick up in the salary area and the draft choice i think AS did pretty well. Also Garon now gets a chance.
It bothers me that Hack is in Boston but we could not avoid that and it is only temporary.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 24, 2003 1:15:56 GMT -5
Hmm, can fill any role, but doesn't get much going on his own, apparently. Reminds me of Benoit Brunet.... we all liked the guy, but he's not really missed, either. That would be absolutely fine with me. Benoit's only problem....only one...was that he spent too much time off the ice. Sundstrom is not injury prone, and if he's as responsible as RR states, and can skate well to boot (something Dackell does not do well), then he's a very good upgrade on our 3rd line right wing. I'm liking the deal more, the more I find out about Sundstrom. Now let's hope that a) Hackett gets injured (just 3 months), nothing too serious. b) McLaren gets injured. c) Jillson goes -30 the rest of the year d) and our 3rd rounder in 2004 turns into another Roy or Mathieu Schneider Everyone's happy.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 24, 2003 1:33:01 GMT -5
A story from Bob McKenzie. I think he got it right. www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=24557&hubName=nhlMcKenzie: Savard did all right Bob McKenzie 1/23/2003 There will be a rush to criticize Montreal general manager Andre Savard for dealing netminder Jeff Hackett to San Jose, only to have the goalie end up with the arch-rival Boston Bruins. Well, pardon me for not jumping on that bandwagon. Let's remember that Hackett, as well as he's played this year and as solid a netminder as he may be, is still a 34-year-old who becomes an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. And let us also remember that Montreal has Jose Theodore and, for better or worse, he has to be their undisputed no. 1 goalie. and now he is. The truth is, even though Niklas Sundstrom has been a gross underachiever this season with only two goals to his credit, he is still a credible NHL forward, a defensive specialist with some offensive upside. He's only 27 years old. The Habs also received a third-round pick, which is not insignificant. Forget for a moment that Hackett ended up in Boston. Montreal got at least market value and arguably more for a goaltender who, contrary to popular opinion, was not being chased by any team except, of course, Boston. The Habs and Bruins are competing against each other for a playoff spot and face each other twice shortly after the all-star break. That fact is of concern to many hab fans. Well, there's certainly some risk involved, but that's small thinking. The Habs' yield on Hackett isn't sexy, but it is solid and that's how teams get built. If Savard was paralyzed by fear and peddled Hackett for a draft pick at the deadline to some other team or held onto him, just to avoid the risk associated with Boston, that's small minded. Pick your cliche...no pain, no gain, no risk, no reward. In any case, Savard has put himself on the line to do what's right for his team. If Savard is worried more about the Boston Bruins than he is in building the Montreal Canadiens, he's in the wrong business. One could perhaps argue that Savard should have simply dealt directly with the Bruins and tried to pry away Mclaren for himself, but Montreal didn't have a Jeff Jillson to supplement the deal and that was the key for Boston. As for those Bruins, Hackett, so long as he stays healthy, fills a glaring short term need in net and Jillson is a blue chip prospect who will one day grow into a fixture on the Boston blueline. But the Bruins didn't get the top six forward or top four defenceman they expected for Mclaren and they can blame their lack of goaltending for that. As for the Sharks, in Kyle Mclaren, general manager Dean Lombardi feels he has the missing piece of the puzzle, that is, an Adam Foote or Derian Hatcher type of physical presence who will help the Sharks truly compete for the cup in the next few years. By the way, on Friday, the Sharks are expected to announce they've signed Mclaren to a new multi-year contract. For TSN.ca, I'm Bob McKenzie.
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Post by Pam on Jan 24, 2003 1:45:46 GMT -5
fingers are crossed. Right. McLaren will not lead them to the Promise Land. Hey, I bet they don't have snow out there do they? You see, life is still good (providing California doesn't slip off into the ocean). Behave yourself, Dis. I live in the San Jose area. We aren't going to slip into the ocean and we do have snow in parts of California, just not too often in SJ.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Jan 24, 2003 2:11:55 GMT -5
Sundstrom is not injury prone, and if he's as responsible as RR states, and can skate well to boot (something Dackell does not do well), then he's a very good upgrade on our 3rd line right wing. When he was being drafted, many of the scouting reports had him as one of the best skaters in the draft. He doesn't have those explosive wheels like a Bure, but he's deceptively quick, quite the graceful skater if you watch him. Was always a fan of his, he should get back up to 10-15 goals a year, 35 odd points with the Habs, especially if he gets a little PP time (you know he wasn't getting any behind Selanne and Nolan on RW!)
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Post by Rhiessan on Jan 24, 2003 2:49:10 GMT -5
Well I just got home and found out. Now 15-20 mins later I've just finished reading this post and I for one am in the pro camp. JH going to Bos is a downer but like Viper said they were going to get better anyway. As far as everyone getting down on Sundstrum already lets remember this guy was on the Sweedish olympic team, that means he's in the top 15-20 sweed forwards in the world right? Everything I found on this guy says from my books and on the internet says 3 things over and over again: Smart, Fast effortless skater and Very sound to great defensive play in any situation. Sure he's another body to add to a full roster but he aint slow, he aint a liability, he aint no smurf and best of all he aint expensive(resigned for this year 1.8 and next 1.95 and SJ will pay 25% for this year AND next year). Let's at least give im a chance first eh.
I'm also in the camp that thinks AS is not done yet and IMO we're gonna see some glut removed by the deadline, 1 down 2 or 3 to go kinda thing.
I also thought we would be lucky to get a 4th rounder in the end for Hackett. A 3rd and a solid player is nothing to be lighting fires about. I can't wait to see who will be with who in friday's practice should get very good idea what's to come in the following weeks ;D
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 24, 2003 6:04:44 GMT -5
Big Bob got it right as far as I'm concerned. Also, what wasn't mentioned in the article is that Sundstrom is signed through the 2003-04 season, and SJ is picking up 25% of his salary from now until then. That means Uncle George shells out $450,000 for the remainder of this season, and $1.35million for next season. A total of $1.8million, which is roughly the amount Hackett is owed for the rest of his current contract. So the money is a wash. Uncle George doesn't have to eat any salary (the taste of Juliened Therrien must still be strong in his mouth). Savard did good by his boss' wallet, and we get 1.5 years worth of Sundstrom in exchange for .5 years worth of Hackett. Oh, and a 3rd round pick in 2004. What's the problem?
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 24, 2003 8:39:08 GMT -5
If it's any help. I can't help but think of another junior star, that came to the NHL and was labelled as a 3rd liner, defensive player at best, much like Sundstrum.....That player is Craig Conroy....Who knows, givent the right circumstance, could Sundstrum perhaps flourish like Conroy has? I'll reserve judgement for now. I will buy that. How is a guy supposed to score goals wjhen his job is to stop the games elite from doing that? I do not but the SOFT label that is riveted on him by some on our board. Is Juneau soft? Maybe not the "splatter" checker that we love but he can and does do an effective job on a man. Give the guy a chance before we crucify him to the Gods of Our Hockey Dreams. What did you guys expect for Hackett? Lacavalier? Sheesh.....
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 24, 2003 8:52:46 GMT -5
A story from Bob McKenzie. I think he got it right. www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=24557&hubName=nhlMcKenzie: Savard did all right Bob McKenzie 1/23/2003 There will be a rush to criticize Montreal general manager Andre Savard for dealing netminder Jeff Hackett to San Jose, only to have the goalie end up with the arch-rival Boston Bruins. Well, pardon me for not jumping on that bandwagon. Let's remember that Hackett, as well as he's played this year and as solid a netminder as he may be, is still a 34-year-old who becomes an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. And let us also remember that Montreal has Jose Theodore and, for better or worse, he has to be their undisputed no. 1 goalie. and now he is. The truth is, even though Niklas Sundstrom has been a gross underachiever this season with only two goals to his credit, he is still a credible NHL forward, a defensive specialist with some offensive upside. He's only 27 years old. The Habs also received a third-round pick, which is not insignificant. Forget for a moment that Hackett ended up in Boston. Montreal got at least market value and arguably more for a goaltender who, contrary to popular opinion, was not being chased by any team except, of course, Boston. The Habs and Bruins are competing against each other for a playoff spot and face each other twice shortly after the all-star break. That fact is of concern to many hab fans. Well, there's certainly some risk involved, but that's small thinking. The Habs' yield on Hackett isn't sexy, but it is solid and that's how teams get built. If Savard was paralyzed by fear and peddled Hackett for a draft pick at the deadline to some other team or held onto him, just to avoid the risk associated with Boston, that's small minded. Pick your cliche...no pain, no gain, no risk, no reward. In any case, Savard has put himself on the line to do what's right for his team. If Savard is worried more about the Boston Bruins than he is in building the Montreal Canadiens, he's in the wrong business. One could perhaps argue that Savard should have simply dealt directly with the Bruins and tried to pry away Mclaren for himself, but Montreal didn't have a Jeff Jillson to supplement the deal and that was the key for Boston. As for those Bruins, Hackett, so long as he stays healthy, fills a glaring short term need in net and Jillson is a blue chip prospect who will one day grow into a fixture on the Boston blueline. But the Bruins didn't get the top six forward or top four defenceman they expected for Mclaren and they can blame their lack of goaltending for that. As for the Sharks, in Kyle Mclaren, general manager Dean Lombardi feels he has the missing piece of the puzzle, that is, an Adam Foote or Derian Hatcher type of physical presence who will help the Sharks truly compete for the cup in the next few years. By the way, on Friday, the Sharks are expected to announce they've signed Mclaren to a new multi-year contract. For TSN.ca, I'm Bob McKenzie. Thanks for digging that up 17...... I wonder if Hackett will be able to play a bunch of games in arrow as number 1...he hasn't since 1999-2000 and that body is getting older....
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 24, 2003 8:55:00 GMT -5
Best case scenario: -Bruins don't make playoffs with Hackett. Or make em and choke in first round again -He doesn't re-sign with Bruins -Jillson's huge defensive holes are exposed and he is deemed a bust or another Drake Berehowski. -Sundstrom becomes a good 3rd liner for Habs and re-gains his 2000-01 touch(49 points I believe) -Habs can do something with that 3rd rounder -McLaren shows he is not as good as hyped.... -Theo regains his form of last year That would be a real optimistic view..... 1. Bruins choke: Won't happen IMO because the main reason the Bruins were knocked out last year was because of Dafoe. Hackett is an excellent goalie IMO and will not go the Dafoe way. Bruins will now definitely make the playoffs and I predict a 5th place. If you watch the Bruins play with Raycroft and Shields, these guys let in soft ones on a regular basis. This is something that Hackett won't do and he will give them a chance to win every night. The Bruins scare me now. 2. He has a chance to be a #1 with Boston. If he plays often and has the opportunity to be the #1 next year, I think he will resign with Boston. This will be another drop kick in our front teeth. 3. I agree that Jillson has some gaps in his defensive play, but I think that his offense outweighs significantly his defensive lapses and he will be a key player for them for years to come. They have a steady defensive core now with Boynton, Girard, Jillson and co. They have addressed some issues from last years playoffs by adding some mobility on D. Again, they scare me. 4. Sundstrom could become a quality defensive player for the Habs and help them in the PK. But again, the problem I have with getting him is that we didn't address one of our major shortcomings in this team and that is the defensemen. We lost our only bargaining chip to land a quality D. Now, we wait for Komo and Hainsey to develop. I have a problem with having to settle with Traverse, Breezy, Dykhuis and Q's brainfarts for the next few years. 5. Habs will IMO get a decent player with the pick. AS has shown that he is able to dig up some good talent even in late rounds. Will that player pan out? Only time will tell. 6. McLaren will be a decent D for SJ but I believe that SJ overpaid for him. I am just glad that we didn't get him. I am still not over that Zednik cheap shot.] 7. Theo is already back in form...he has shown great numbers in the last 15 games or so. Finally, I am not happy with the trade, but I am happy that Hackett was moved because I didn't like the fact that he wasn't playing. He is a class act and deserves much better. I wish him the best. cheers,
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 24, 2003 9:01:13 GMT -5
1. Bruins choke: Won't happen IMO because the main reason the Bruins were knocked out last year was because of Dafoe. Hackett is an excellent goalie IMO and will not go the Dafoe way. Bruins will now definitely make the playoffs and I predict a 5th place. If you watch the Bruins play with Raycroft and Shields, these guys let in soft ones on a regular basis. This is something that Hackett won't do and he will give them a chance to win every night. The Bruins scare me now. Yes but Hackett's playoff record is virtually non-existent...let's not forget that.. I am sure MANY teams have doubts about what he can do in the playoffs
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 24, 2003 9:15:41 GMT -5
Yes but Hackett's playoff record is virtually non-existent...let's not forget that.. I am sure MANY teams have doubts about what he can do in the playoffs IMO, regardless of experience, if the Bruins are ousted from the playoffs, it won't be because of Hackett's play. He is a hard worker with a lot of determination and I think that he will come through for them in the crunch. I think that is strong mentally and won't be weak link that breaks the chain. Theo didn't have playoff experience either and look at what he has done. And I believe that the reason Theo was that strong mentally had a lot to do with Hackett's mentoring. I wouldn't sell Hack short.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 24, 2003 9:36:54 GMT -5
Guys...Give some time to Sundstrom before bashing him
the poor guy is going to expereience a 60 degree celcius difference in the next few days..LOL
I was one of the guys who tought a 3rd for Hackett was good enough..I was expecting for this year tho..Oh well
Sundtrom looks an average player to me which is an upgrade on Juneau, Dackell, McKay, Audette and Ribeiro to me..So I welcome him with arms wide open...
as for Boston, they really ripped San Jose with this deal..So What?? Do you guys think AS would have added a condition saying I am trading you Hackett but you can't trade him to Boston..LOL..like when RH traded brashear to the canucks with the condition of him not playing in the game that remained that year..
Way to go Boston Way to go AS specially if hack was beginning to be a problem in the room beacuase he wanted to play more and I really think he didn't have any offers.. as far as SJ is concerned, they got r a p e d twice. They gave up too much for Hackett IMO and give up too much for McLaren again IMO..
Cheers
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Post by Montrealer on Jan 24, 2003 9:38:50 GMT -5
Man, I haven't heard so much whining in my life.
First, last night on the Team 990, while keeping my girlfriend company in the dark while Hydro worked to get her electricity back, I get to hear the Sports Rage crowd yell for Andre Savard's head..... and I asked myself why?
We get Niklas Sundstrom, the proto-typical third-liner, and a 3rd round pick, for our outgoing UFA goalie. Christ, it's better than we've EVER gotten for an outgoing UFA guy (see: Damphousse, Vincent and Weinrich, Eric).
So what if Boston gets Hackett and Jillson for McLaren and a 4th? I'm supposed to be mad at Andre Savard because SAN JOSE made a stupid second deal? Oh no! We should have gotten McLaren? "IT ONLY WOULD HAVE COST US KOMISAREK OR HAINSEY PLUS HACKETT YOU HOSERS!" is what I yelled at the radio. Then my girlfriend changed the channel.
I come in here this morning, thinking that I would finally get some rational discussion on the subject. Boy, was I wrong. At least here it seems to be about 50-50, and at least it seems to be flowing towards the pro-camp in the last few pages, but the initial reactions are hysterical.
San Jose got hosed, they gave up way too much for a guy who, if I recall correctly, everyone predicted would do horribly this year because of the rule changes because he was so slow and had to clutch and grab more than any other defenseman in the league to keep up. He had 8 assists in 38 games last year with no goals, tons of injuries the past few years, etc.. etc..
Was this worth Komisarek? Hell no! Was this worth Hainsey? Are you kidding?
Was this worth Sundstrom and Jillson? No freaking chance.
But San Jose bit, because they fell in love with the "image." The big, hulking defenseman that would magically solve all their problems. Oh boy, I'm sure they'll make the playoffs now! Whoopee, they have Kyle Freaking McLaren!
Boston is doubled-over with laughter, because they were able to fool a GM. NOT ANDRE SAVARD, who refused to be fooled..... but Dean Lombardi.. GM of the San Jose Sharks.
So go ahead and cry wolf. Whatever. Complain Sundstrom is "small" (moronic freaking comment considering he's 6 foot, 195 pounds), complain he is "slow" (another moronic comment from people who have never actually seen him), complain he is a "fourth-liner" (even though he has both offensive talent AND is excellent defensively)...
Go on, complain all you want. You'll be the same ones who jump on the bandwagon when Sundstrom produces and heap praises on him when he saves our bacon when we're leading 2-1 with the game on the line and us killing a penalty with two minutes to go in the game.
Whiners! Shame!
Reread the code of conduct Montrealer and cool down.
This is HabsRus and we do not call fellow poster "moronic" for their opinion.
Please control your language. There is NO room for that on THIS board.
HabsAddict
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 24, 2003 9:42:53 GMT -5
for the record...I am basically in the middle now while tilting more and more towards the ''AS did pretty well'' crowd
Another thing that doesn't help..Sunny's 2 goals...people look at that and say WTF(like Gabriel Morency) refusing to look at past numbers and 40 points in quite a few seasons while being a strong defensive forward.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 24, 2003 9:42:53 GMT -5
Guys...Give some time to Sundstrom before bashing him the poor guy is going to expereience a 60 degree celcius difference in the next few days..LOL I was one of the guys who tought a 3rd for Hackett was good enough..I was expecting for this year tho..Oh well Sundtrom looks an average player to me which is an upgrade on Juneau, Dackell, McKay, Audette and Ribeiro to me..So I welcome him with arms wide open... as for Boston, they really ripped San Jose with this deal..So What?? Do you guys think AS would have added a condition saying I am trading you Hackett but you can't trade him to Boston..LOL..like when RH traded brashear to the canucks with the condition of him not playing in the game that remained that year.. Way to go Boston Way to go AS specially if hack was beginning to be a problem in the room beacuase he wanted to play more and I really think he didn't have any offers.. as far as SJ is concerned, they got r a p e d twice. They gave up too much for Hackett IMO and give up too much for McLaren again IMO.. Cheers Don't get me wrong, I think that AS got way more than I expected for Hackett considering is UFA status. What bugs me with the trade is that if we got this much for Hack...at least we could have gotten something as good in a position where there is a HUGE need...that being on defense. Hey, it's great that we got a decent forward plus a pick ... but I would have loved to get a decent D even without the pick.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 24, 2003 9:46:01 GMT -5
...like when RH traded brashear to the canucks with the condition of him not playing in the game that remained that year...Cheers Brashear's response when asked about that condition (of not playing in the remaining Van vs Mtl game) was classic: "It's the smartest decision he's made."
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 24, 2003 10:02:52 GMT -5
BTW this is now the longest thread in habsRus history ;D Congrats to us ;D
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 24, 2003 10:04:49 GMT -5
Brashear's response when asked about that condition (of not playing in the remaining Van vs Mtl game) was classic: "It's the smartest decision he's made." LOL I wonder who's butt Brashear would've kicked... ;D Can you imagine him kicking Brisebois' as* so badly he wouldn't be able to play even now
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 24, 2003 10:09:23 GMT -5
The only thing that ticks me off now is that I hope the trade doesn't run Hossa out of a spot...even if he slowed down quite a bit I think there's nothing for him to learn in the AHL anymore and even if I am a famous Ribeiro hater..I think they might form a good 4th line with a frekin' good defensive guy..
So my message to AS..don't send Marcel down just yet...he has to gain that confidence with the puck at this level..
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 24, 2003 10:43:14 GMT -5
The only thing that ticks me off now is that I hope the trade doesn't run Hossa out of a spot...even if he slowed down quite a bit I think there's nothing for him to learn in the AHL anymore and even if I am a famous Ribeiro hater..I think they might form a good 4th line with a frekin' good defensive guy.. So my message to AS..don't send Marcel down just yet...he has to gain that confidence with the puck at this level.. Hossa-Ribeiro-Dackell?
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Post by cigarviper on Jan 24, 2003 10:51:49 GMT -5
Finally, I am not happy with the trade, but I am happy that Hackett was moved because I didn't like the fact that he wasn't playing. He is a class act and deserves much better. I wish him the best. That pretty much sums up my feelings...the morning after the night before.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Jan 24, 2003 14:43:38 GMT -5
I do not understand why a lot of posters are up in arms about the trade. Savard only had one option and that was the Boston Bruins. The Rangers and the Bruins were the only two teams that expressed any interest in Hackett all season. The Rangers passed on Hack because they didn't want to trade for a player who would ultimately be a rental for this season. Therefore the Bruins were the ONLY team that AS could trade with. When you only have one trading partner out 29, then your hands ARE tied.
The fact that even under these circumstances AS was able to provide us with a solid 3rd liner and a 3rd round draft pick is IMO not too shabby. One poster noted that the chance of a 3rd round pick making the NHL is slim. Well if that's the argument then why was this board fuming with Savard giving up a 3rd in the original Berezin deal?
I don't know what some posters ever thought Hackett would go for? He's 34 yrs old, injury-prone, a UFA to be and he hasn't been in the playoffs since 1996. Marc suggested if Hack were to go to Boston we should have gotten McClaren or Rolston instead. Let's reverse the tables. Let's say the Habs had McClaren or Rolston and the B's had Hackett. Would you trade one of them straight up for Hack? A few months ago most posters were happy with Hackett going for 4th rounder. Well we got 3rd and a solid NHLer out of it and people are still whining.
As for Garon, people forget that a few years ago the Hab's scouts and those around the league said that he has more potential than Theo. Let's not judge Garon with last year's trip to the West. The whole team played horribly. I think that with the help of Rollie we could have the makings of another goaltending contreversy very soon.
After all what's Montreal without one?
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 24, 2003 20:38:19 GMT -5
We got hosed.
Boston had a problem with MacLaren. The got rid of their problem, added the best goaltender available (they really needed one) and made out like bandits.
San Jose had a two goal scorer. They got rid of him and got a very steady physical defenseman. (We could use some toughness in front of Theo, Last time Breezeby or Reverse knocked someone down Ronald Reagan was President and Tremblay was fighting with Roy)
Montreal had a great guy who played excellent in nets when called upon and didn't complain when he was forced to accept #2 billing and ride the bench. He was outstanding when we needed him after Theo's poor start. We got back a soft two goal scorer.
Sure as hell hope Theo doesn't get hurt!
I was originally a supporter of Savard. He got us some depth in mediocre players and we made the playoffs on the strength of Clark Kent Theodore turning into Superman. Our defense seemed deep and we got rid of some non contributors.
Today: 1. Our payroll is overinflated 2. Our deep defense is in deep Saperlipopette 3. Savard took two years top get rid of a coach that everyone else saw as useless before last years playoffs and a contract extension. Our interim coach has proved in three games that he is 200% better than Therrien. 4. The forwards that Savard brought in are not producing. 5. We are still getting outshot by weak teams. 6. Our strength in nets has been depleted by 50% and opur only return is a two goal scorer. 7. Our best prospects are still in the minors. 5 years ago Chouinard was a prospect too and we saw how he worked out.
Question? If San Jose offered a second round pick and a four goal scorer, would Savard have traded Theodore instead of Hackett?
Mother Theresa will be a Saint before Andre. She may have been a better GM too.
On the bright side, the new coach is doing a good job and we all are still Hab's fans.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 24, 2003 20:46:46 GMT -5
for the record...I am basically in the middle now while tilting more and more towards the ''AS did pretty well'' crowd Another thing that doesn't help..Sunny's 2 goals...people look at that and say WTF(like Gabriel Morency) refusing to look at past numbers and 40 points in quite a few seasons while being a strong defensive forward. Gordie How could return to the NHL in his 70's and score more than two freaken goals. Gordie Howe could return to the NHL and score more than four goals. How much offensive talent does this guy have. Audette scores more than two goals a year with one arm. We could bring up Chouinard and he would score more than two goals. Rucinsky scores more than two goals without really trying. The guys wearing shoes and shooting at the nets between periods score more than two goals a year. This is ugly.
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