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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 20, 2003 8:26:14 GMT -5
Simon Drouin La Presse Sunrise, Florida Joé Juneau and Andreas Dackell were not surprised at the philosophy of play suggested by Claude Julien upon his arrival as coach of the Canadiens last Friday. In fact, the two linemates heard the same things that Jacques Martin taught them when they played for the Senators three years ago. "Dacks and me, we've talked about it for a couple of days: he has the same approach that Jacques presented to us in Ottawa", said Juneau a few minutes before getting onto the plane Sunday afternoon in Dorval. Four balanced lines and a forward ready high between the faceoff circles, that's the Julien recipe, according to comments collected here and there. "It's the system of the Senators, continued Juneau. In fact, all the better teams use this system. Instead of having three guys together in a corner, Claude wants that we use the offensive zone more fully. That forces the other teams to adapt and it becomes harder to defend against us." Against the Maple Leafs, Julien diversified his lines, putting Jan Bulis on the second line with Yanic Perreault and inserting Mariusz Czerkawski on the left of Dackell and Juneau. Having his strictly defensive task lightened, the latter doesn't hide his appreciation for his new role. "I did the dirty work for a year and a half, he noted. The pleasure of playing is in creating opportunities to score, to take part in the attack. You hit the ice with the intention of scoring, not to prevent your opponent from doing so. Balanced lines, that will force all the players to play the same way, at both ends of the rink." While benefiting from an ideal scoring position in the high slot, the forward can quickly peel back and give solid support to his defensemen in the event of a counter-attack. "That also enables us to be more aggressive along the boards, underlined Craig Rivet. To make it work, the five players on the rink must be responsible defensively." - - - Julien also seems to want to use all his manpower with regularity. Thirteen of the 18 Canadiens spent at least a minute on the ice on the power play against the Leafs. But he doesn't intend to change the goalie policy founded by his predecessor, Michel Therrien. Jeff Hackett should have his share of starts (barring a trade...). "I like to make sure that my two goalies are ready if one should get hurt, the coach of the Canadiens said Sunday. I don't want to keep a goalie on the sidelines for two or three weeks. There is an advantage to having two number one goalies. It's an asset." However, José Theodore will be in net against Florida Monday evening. translated from www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/sports/0301/spo_103010185443.html
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 20, 2003 8:39:13 GMT -5
"He wants that we use the whole zone while having everyone in motion. The enemy will have more difficulty ensuring good coverage. Possibly this style of play will create openings and chances to score. It's nevertheless better than all working in a sector, in the same corner. The team has strong points that we should exploit, concluded Juneau. Our asset is speed. We must benefit from it." translated and excerpted from www.cyberpresse.ca/soleil/sports/0301/spo_203010185487.html
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 20, 2003 9:31:39 GMT -5
Man, is CJ a genius or was MT just not that smart? Let's hope he can eventually get us to be as good as the Sens The key with the Sens is their counter-attack...you turn over the puck in their zone or the neutral zone and with their speed they create a scoring chance.
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Post by hab1fan on Jan 20, 2003 10:15:35 GMT -5
I like the approach. I'm sure as CJ gets to know the strengths and weaknesses of his charges, he'll adapt the initial system accordingly. Or dump those who don't adapt to it. I noticed in the second and especially in the third period the player high in the slot which covered for the pinching D-men. I'm sure our goalies will appreciate this as well. While benefiting from an ideal scoring position in the high slot, the forward can quickly peel back and give solid support to his defensemen in the event of a counter-attack. What's this? You mean we won't see all three forwards (and sometimes a defencemen) all in the same corner anymore? 'bout time!
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Post by Rhiessan on Jan 20, 2003 10:31:43 GMT -5
So what is being said is that if one of our forwards misses the puck behind the opp's goal it's not gonna be an almost 3on2, 2on1 the other way. Whoo-hooooooo ;D
The other good thing about this is the D will have better opportunities on the pinch and should allow for a 2 man forecheck Whoo-hooooo-hooooo ;D ;D
Sounds good to me now lets see the players execute it.
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Post by Maritimer on Jan 20, 2003 10:46:58 GMT -5
Sounds like the trap to me...2 forcheckers on the puck...1st guy angles to the boards and makes the hit, 2nd guy goes for the puck....3rd guy stays high to force play to the boards should they get past the 1st 2
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Post by AH on Jan 20, 2003 11:34:40 GMT -5
Four balanced lines and a forward ready high between the faceoff circles, that's the Julien recipe, according to comments collected here and there. "It's the system of the Senators, continued Juneau. In fact, all the better teams use this system. Instead of having three guys together in a corner, Claude wants that we use the offensive zone more fully. That forces the other teams to adapt and it becomes harder to defend against us." LOL !!! leave it to Joey to take a shot at Therrien and his supposed system .
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 20, 2003 11:59:18 GMT -5
"I wanted to involve everyone (Saturday) with short shifts of 45 seconds and a constant tempo, which everyone seemed to understand and respect." *** "One should not give all the dirty work to a single defensive line. It's a question of balance. I am ready to adjust if the situation requires it." translated and excerpted from www.src.ca/sports/hockey/nouvelles/200301/18/007-HabsJulien.asp
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 20, 2003 12:00:57 GMT -5
LOL !!! leave it to Joey to take a shot at Therrien and his supposed system . I thought the same thing...hehehe... we will see more and more of these little shots at MT as we go along....
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Post by PTH on Jan 20, 2003 12:35:12 GMT -5
LOL !!! leave it to Joey to take a shot at Therrien and his supposed system . The rotten apples are showing up then.... I wonder what Joé will be saying once he realises this means that he has to get his offensive numbers up, that he can't get by without producing anymore.
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Post by PTH on Jan 20, 2003 12:40:36 GMT -5
I like the approach. I'm sure as CJ gets to know the strengths and weaknesses of his charges, he'll adapt the initial system accordingly. Or dump those who don't adapt to it. Of course, it helps to have a GM that's actualy on the same page, so the coach actually has some credibility.... why would theyhave bothered listening to MT if they realised that AS was the one really callign the shots, and that MT really couldn't do much, regardless ?
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 20, 2003 15:25:08 GMT -5
The rotten apples are showing up then.... That was quite classless from Juneau. Therrien always shed Joe from criticisms and was awarding him with tons of icetime. It will be fun to remind Juneau of his words when Julien decides to bench him because he's accomplishing nothing... To pick up on the Senators analogy, they (the Sens) did not keep Juneau and his friend Dackell for too long and did not suffer much from it either.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 20, 2003 15:26:49 GMT -5
Wasn't Juneau a FA? I believe they wanted him back but they couldn't afford him...
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 20, 2003 15:51:07 GMT -5
Wasn't Juneau a FA? I believe they wanted him back but they couldn't afford him... Washington let him walked out as a UFA Ottawa left him unprotected in the expansion draft. The Wild picked him and traded him to Phoenix. Pheonix let him go for future considerations... We're not talking about a player who's recent teams were hanging to very tightly are we...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 20, 2003 16:21:07 GMT -5
Yeah that's what happened...thanks for digging it up...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 20, 2003 16:43:39 GMT -5
The rotten apples are showing up then.... I wonder what Joé will be saying once he realises this means that he has to get his offensive numbers up, that he can't get by without producing anymore. You're missing the point. Therrien's "strategy" was to use the third line for purely defensive purposes. Juneau, Dackell and Bulis have done a fine job, by and large, and have done exactly what Therrien asked of them. Among other things, it meant playing against top lines almost all the time and dealing with some of the best players in the league who were out there trying to generate offence. What would Therrien's reaction have been had Juneau & co. taken more chances in the neutral zone and gotten burned once in a while? Ask Ron Hainsey. He'll probably be able to tell you. Joe Juneau doesn't have a lot of finish (not sure he ever did) but the guy can pass the puck on the attack. If his involvement increases, and the responsibility for playing soundly at both ends of the ice is spread around to all the forward lines, he'll adjust happily. If I were you, I'd be more concerned with Yanic Perreault and whether he'll be able to be a more complete player night after night. Joey Juneau is the least of our problems.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 20, 2003 16:55:29 GMT -5
You're missing the point. Therrien's "strategy" was to use the third line for purely defensive purposes. Juneau, Dackell and Bulis have done a fine job, by and large, and have done exactly what Therrien asked of them. Among other things, it meant playing against top lines almost all the time and dealing with some of the best players in the league who were out there trying to generate offence. What would Therrien's reaction have been had Juneau & co. taken more chances in the neutral zone and gotten burned once in a while? Ask Ron Hainsey. He'll probably be able to tell you. Joe Juneau doesn't have a lot of finish (not sure he ever did) but the guy can pass the puck on the attack. If his involvement increases, and the responsibility for playing soundly at both ends of the ice is spread around to all the forward lines, he'll adjust happily. If I were you, I'd be more concerned with Yanic Perreault and whether he'll be able to be a more complete player night after night. Joey Juneau is the least of our problems. Juneau has 3 goals, 11 points and -10. Not exctly a force in any way you look at him. He's one of the many vets that needs to pick up the pace. Personally I'd take Perreault's 20goals/37 points and #1 faceoff men status over Joey's "complete play" any day of the week.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 20, 2003 19:46:01 GMT -5
If CJ follows the Sens philosophy, then with our team speed, we'll make alot of teams in this league look like the B's did in the playoff last year.
If you guys get a chance to see the Sens transition game live, it is a treat to watch. TV just doesn't do it justice.
I've seen their transition game from the 300's section of the Corel Centre (at the top of the building) and you can just see the play developing. If the Habs can get to that point we'll do great.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 20, 2003 19:47:37 GMT -5
and we also have a better goalie than the Sens
Put Theo in Ottawa instead of Lalime and they are even better
Put Lalime with the Habs and this team is not the same
Especially in the playoffs...
IMO.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 20, 2003 19:55:12 GMT -5
I have told my friends that, although Lalime is doing well now, I don't think he can carry this team to the holy grail. The Sens are not getting any younger and they need to win the cup within the next 3 years before all of their quality players become UFA's.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 20, 2003 20:01:18 GMT -5
too bad they don't have our payroll...our being able to dish out that kind of cash...
They could really use a Roberts(not Gary but a similar player) like player before going out on a war...
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Post by seventeen on Jan 20, 2003 20:32:15 GMT -5
That was quite classless from Juneau. Therrien always shed Joe from criticisms and was awarding him with tons of icetime. Do you think MT would be gone if those 'rats' and 'rotten apples' hadn't 'stabbed him in the back'? I think Juneau is being polite in not going into detail on just how inept MT was. Would an observer of the team not note the same facts that Juneau points out? Personally, I only wish these guys had done this last year, but then last year Carbo was there and if he was indeed 'telling MT what to do', matters weren't quite as desperate. This year, the emperor had no clothes and I was quite tired of the shame I felt in hoping for this team. Since Friday, I feel so much better about them. They're the same guys and some of them will annoy me just as much as they did before, but at least now, Savard can recognize that it isn't how they're being used that is the problem. If they play poorly it'll be a talent issue, not a system issue. I applaud the rotten apples and the rats because they were those truly loyal to the CH and the history of excellence.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 20, 2003 20:53:30 GMT -5
Do you think MT would be gone if those 'rats' and 'rotten apples' hadn't 'stabbed him in the back'? I think Juneau is being polite in not going into detail on just how inept MT was. Would an observer of the team not note the same facts that Juneau points out? Personally, I only wish these guys had done this last year, but then last year Carbo was there and if he was indeed 'telling MT what to do', matters weren't quite as desperate. This year, the emperor had no clothes and I was quite tired of the shame I felt in hoping for this team. Since Friday, I feel so much better about them. They're the same guys and some of them will annoy me just as much as they did before, but at least now, Savard can recognize that it isn't how they're being used that is the problem. If they play poorly it'll be a talent issue, not a system issue. I applaud the rotten apples and the rats because they were those truly loyal to the CH and the history of excellence. I dunno 17. Who best exemplifies history of excellence: On one end: The Therrien bashers: Audette, Chow and Juneau. On the other end, those who publicly supported their coach: Koivu, Gilmour, Theodore. We KNOW who, through thick and thin gave it all they got and will continue to do so. I think Therrien had to go and I like what I saw of Julien for his first 2 games but if Savard doesn't rid the teams of it's rotten element, his new coach will have a tough ride.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 20, 2003 21:01:22 GMT -5
Who best exemplifies history of excellence: On one end: The Therrien bashers: Audette, Chow and Juneau. On the other end, those who publicly supported their coach: Koivu, Gilmour, Theodore. We may be saying the same thing, depending on who the 'rats' were. You believe they were Audette and Chow who contributed little. We really don't know who the leaders of the disgruntled group were. Man those back injuries are fickle. They come and go.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 20, 2003 21:05:22 GMT -5
We may be saying the same thing, depending on who the 'rats' were. You believe they were Audette and Chow who contributed little. We really don't know who the leaders of the disgruntled group were. Man those back injuries are fickle. They come and go. Hmmm...what about the "D-man qui tombe", or is that just coincidentally his style?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 20, 2003 21:11:33 GMT -5
Hmmm...what about the "D-man qui tombe", or is that just coincidentally his style? Sorry Mr B, my italian helps a little but not enough. Qui tombe. A defenseman who what? falls? Fill me in and I'll try and guess.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 20, 2003 21:47:02 GMT -5
Yep tombe means fall
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Post by seventeen on Jan 20, 2003 23:06:03 GMT -5
I seem to recall one guy who seemed to have very badly sharpened skates. Chunks taken out of them, in fact. His balance hasn't improved that much though, witness the o/t goal vs Toronto.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 21, 2003 0:41:08 GMT -5
I think Juneau is being polite in not going into detail on just how inept MT was. Would an observer of the team not note the same facts that Juneau points out? I also think Juneau's a lot smarter than Therrien. Smarter, generally, and probably more thoughtful about what winning hockey games requires. From what I know, Juneau was probably one of those guys who struggled the most to bite his lip. Therrien was a rotten coach, imo. He may be a likeable guy in some ways, but that's not worth jack in the NHL. The fact of the matter is that if the players don't have confidence in the brain and the poise of the man pulling the strings behind the bench, the team will flounder. Any team will. The adjustments that Julien has made in the first two games within the context of his starting lineup -- so not including decisions regarding who dresses and who's scratched -- have been the kind of moves that a thinking coach will make. Does anybody think it's a mere coincidence that tonight was the first time in ages (maybe the first time this season) that the Habs have come back to win a game after trailing in the third? Getting Gilmour out there with Koivu. Splitting up Traverse and Brisebois. Getting speed on Perreault's wings. Finding a spot for Czerk where his defensive shortcomings wouldn't be such a liability. This is not "shaking things up" merely for the sake of shaking things up. The man is thinking. The players didn't get that from Therrien. They got the opposite. They got the feeling (as we did, but they got it stronger) that he holds grudges, acts capriciously, can't keep his sh*t together, and simply is not a very good strategist. If Therrien got squat out of Audette, Czerkawski, Hainsey and Petrov, amongst others, it's got to be him, because it can't be all of them....Case closed.
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Post by JacquesInFL on Jan 21, 2003 1:13:38 GMT -5
For me, Therrien was hired by Boivin as the future "fall guy" during darkest of days for organisation and ultimately the day arrived for Michel Therrien to fall. Sure, he felt passion for his responsibility but there is precious little evidence he has credibility for to correct deteriorating situation. Credibility is multi-faceted, but it is largely based on both (though the amounts of each may be different for different cases) strategic/tactical quality and experience in leading men in the very situations in which they find themselves. Therrien's passion and normality never stood any chance in supplying enough of either attribute to keep respect in the room. Likewise, this explains why I believed and firmly believe Carbo was indispensable to the 2001-02 edition of the Habs.
No, I have no illusions about the perfection of personnel Savard acquired (probably too much thinking abstractly "yes, Czerkawski has more talent than Asham", etc rather than thinking strictly in terms of context "no thanks we are collecting too much expensive, redundant parts." But, JV may hit mark saying how can coincidence bring critical mass of players to feed cycle of confused, defeatist play night after night. It is too much of a coincidence.
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