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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 1, 2002 20:44:03 GMT -5
I'd rather have Bulis on the 2nd line than Mceachren. And why not Kilger on the third? To me, a lot gets sorted out just by removing Audette from the mix. That's got to be the priority. When I hear people talking about how we need a first line RW I can't believe it. Czerk has shown he can click in that spot and if you ship Audette and hand him the keys I don't think Czerk will disappoint.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 20:45:48 GMT -5
At the start of the year we could have won the division but with Boston AND Ottawa on FIRE saddly it's gonna take a miracle for us to win.
I agree with you, this team only needs a couple of tweaks to get going again. Sort of like what Burke did to his Canucks last year. Change the supporting cast, get rid of a problem player or two(Brashear, Berehowski and Pederson were all unhappy) and hope things take off.
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 1, 2002 22:04:43 GMT -5
i didn't catch the 2nd and 3rd periods of the game last night, had a dinner to go to, but it seems hack played well, and i'd like to see a deal made right now, hackett and some dead weight for a power forward and a strong d man.
another thing: audette has REALLY been pissing me off lately, it seems every time the puck is cycled to his side of the ice on the powerplay he f's up and we lose possesion. chow would be better suited for that spot, he's not as much of a midget, audette just gets tossed around out there, he needs a big center to play with i think, and we don't have it...
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Post by Vichab on Dec 2, 2002 2:01:46 GMT -5
I'm not happy with the situation on the wing either but I've got to cut AS some slack as the real problem is that we have 3 players, Aud, Cz, and Petrov who could all do the job and some very well but this year they simply aren't. But going into the season who would have thought that ay least one of the 3 wouldn't come through. a quarter way through the season AS has a problem because they have all been a bust. but when you size it up the only answer in my mind is to stick with CZ as he is still in prime and has afar greater upside than the other two. and at very least he has some size. Aud was given his chance and had a couple of good games but I think it's time to give Cz a 4 game chance on the top line.
I too am hopeful on the future but we're kidding ourselves if we think these prospects are going to step into the league and make an immediate impact. that takes a few years. It is foolhardy to think Hainsey has NHL experience at this stage. If he is not used this year he will be a rookie next year with a steep learning curve. while i didn't like the way Markov was handled last year at least he was with the Club and got some ice time. Hainsey will have to start next year on that course unless he is used now. that's what makes this present D team so frustrating. If our hope is in our prospects to deliver in the next few years we are only retarding Hainsey's development by having him on the farm. i can live with that if we got players who are going to take us somewhere this year but i agree that is not the case. so if we're being patient too look at the future Hainsey's future is now as the sooner he gets experience in the Bigs the sooner he will adjust and become the kind of player that we have seen of Markov. If Markov has spent last year down on the farm he would not be where he is now. AS owes nothing to Trav, Q, and Dykh but Hasinsey is crusial to this organizations future and shopuld be allowed to play and learn.
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Post by habwest on Dec 2, 2002 2:06:11 GMT -5
What The New Guys is saying...me too. More or less said the same thing a while back until I got tired of hearing myself talk. Audette hasn't got it any more because he can't come back from the injury and Gilmour playing left wing are the immediate problems; Theo's self satisfaction another. Unless by some miracle Audette adjusts to the limitations respecting his arm and starts to score again he needs to be sat so Czerk can play. If he causes a real problem and AS can't move him (which I would expect to be the case) buy him out, cut our losses. As far as getting too many RWs has anybody considered that AS was insuring against the possibillity of Audette not recovering? If Audette can't cut it, I would rather have Czerk to play RW than Asham. As far as McKay goes it was strictly a short term move to get some size as Hossa hasn't really blown folks away yet and Ward has had a checkered past. So AS played the odds and got McKay. The other problem is Gilmour, any talent that he has left is just wasted on the wing and he's too small over there anyway. He ought to be the 4th line center and if he doesn't like it then move him/buy him out too. Plug in Ribs (close my eyes to his defensive shortcomings and his feeble attempts to the take the body) or Gratton or better yet Kilger. Move Bulis up to replace Gilmour and bring Hossa up to learn from Juneau. OK, HA I expect you to come screeching in to tell me I'm all wet. But folks telling me I'm out in left field has never stopped me before so what the heck. TNG is right, relax about this year, it's a throw away. All AS is trying to do is scrape into the playoffs and hoping that we get lucky again. MT is the "fall guy in waiting" like TNG said. MT will be gone by 2004/05, maybe even next year if the team tanks. AS knew that it would take years to recover so he needed somebody around to take the fall while talent was developing, right? Of course maybe AS is living hand to mouth and I'm imagining all of this. But... nahh....
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Post by Rhiessan on Dec 2, 2002 5:30:48 GMT -5
Believe me I understand your fustration but there really isn't alot AS can or will do right now. I mean who really are we willing to part with that has value to get what we want. *Koivu-Not a chance *Zednik-Dito *Audette-For sure but we're not gonna get much and probably will have to eat some salery. (That Utah thing sounds good, this sitting Chow and Kilger for him is getting quite silly) *Chow- Available but do we really want to get rid of him without a least giving him a decent shot to help this team? If yes fine but the return would be marginal at this time. *Perreault-I don't see him being available. Yes he's soft and lacks good defensive play but he does put the puck in consistantly and is the best faceoff man in the league and I don't feel anything we get for him would be an upgrade. *Juneau-Not available. How do you get rid of one of the few stable/bright spots on this team. *Gilmour-Available but the only time we're gonna get anything for him is near the end and only if we're out of it by the trade deadline which I refuse to believe. *Petrov-Available and probably the easiest to get a decent return for. *Mckay- Might be available but there's too little grit on this team already. He may have lost a step but he's still a warrior. Return right now wouldn't be much. *Dackell-Available but again not very valuable. *Kilger-I don't honestly see him being that available. Has everything we've been wanting on this team, a forward that has size and speed that hits hard and often not to mention he just turned 26. Needs icetime. One more Leclair/Thornton thing and i'll lose it. *Bulis-Not available. Earned his spot on this team and hasn't looked back. *Lindsay-Available but he could probably be put on waivers and not get picked up. Besides he knows his role and plays hard when called upon. *Ribeiro-Available. As far as value? Catch-22 *Blouin-Got him for a low pick nuff said. *Brisebois-Not available. Finally playing closer to his contract. More valuable to us than to someone else. *Markov-Not a chance. 162nd in the draft WOW. *Rivet-Not that available. Solid 4th or 5th d-man. Return again would be marginal. *Souray-Not available. After the playoff's last year too much upside besides what could we hope to get for him with his injury history. *Quintal-Too available *Dykhuis-Available. His play this year has diminished his value badly. *Hackett-Available but more valuable to us right now. Stock goes up as Jose regains form and teams start figuring out what they need for the spring. *Theodore-Not a chance. Like it or not he's the future. *Prospects-Not likely AS parts with any short of getting a Kariya. Ward might be available but only has value if he comes up and plays well with the big club and then why the hell would we want to trade him. There's probably room in there for a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deal in there but how many teams could absorb the saleries involved. A Kordic for Courtnall type deal would be great but unfortunatly Gord Stellick(sp?) is not a GM in this league anymore Continued...
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Post by Rhiessan on Dec 2, 2002 5:31:40 GMT -5
...Continued As far as giving MT the right combinations, if you mean giving him less to "play" with I'm in ;D On the prospect thing I do realize that some people are getting sick of hearing about them and want results now. I don't blame you this is Montreal after all where losing is not an option. Let's face it tho that same no lose attitude results in poor draft positions. Our drafting in the in the 90's was pathetic (more busts than a vegas chorus line) and is the #1 reason we've endured so much in the last few years. To know that the farm is well stocked with stallions instead of nags means we probably won't have go through that god awfull pain for a long time to come. I for one think AS has done an excellent job of going through a rebuilding phase while at the same time keeping the current roster more than competitive on most nights. I'm all for a stop gap measure or two as long as they're made with current roster members and no future for short term marginal gain crap. If you see something I don't lets hear it, that's what we're in here for right? ;D P.S. This was my first real good rant and dam it feels good
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 8:30:56 GMT -5
...Continued As far as giving MT the right combinations, if you mean giving him less to "play" with I'm in ;D what you don't want him and his mastermind given even more options? ;D
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 2, 2002 9:14:16 GMT -5
Once again - not a course of action I would want AS to try and hold. More stop gap measures? Can't you hear Dis and BC and HA all screaming bloody blue and purple murder at the mere thought of this? Bring in more oldies for the sake of making the playoffs and scratch all your young guys? Hah. Suggesting that could be suicidal on this board.
Alright - so they probably won't kill you. Just rant. A lot.
See - the issue is that Savard doesn't have a whole lot to work with right now. As it happens, the only guys with any measurable value that we have are Petrov and Hackett. And while moving Petrov would certainly clear up the RW situation, you'd be forced to continue to play Audette, which I don't think are in Savard's plans. Need a solid second line LW? Great - who do you suggest we trade to get one? Hainsey? Hossa? Komisarek? Hackett and picks?
The bottom line is that we, as fans of this team, need to forget about the playoffs this year. We could make the playoffs this year - we certainly have enough talent to trade to get the few other pieces we need. But what then? What do we do next year, when we've decimated our cupboard? As it stands we might squeak in and get GG some big playoff $$$, we might now. But next year when Hainsey turns out to be another Markov like breakout and Komi starts getting limited NHL icetime (like Hainsey now) things'll look a lot better for us than if we had stopped our the holes we have right now.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 2, 2002 9:51:04 GMT -5
Rhiessan, like many of us have suggested for months, what the HABS should do is go with a cheap youngster driven lineup. Right now, the HABS could very well miss the playoffs with their huge 48mil salary burden and if that happens it's gonna leave scares... Gillett doesn't have endless pockets and the time to massively invest and roll the dice wasn't now, it's gonna be in 2-3 years when we're gonna have to fight to retain the Zednik, Koivu and Theo and resign our Hossa, Hainsey, Komi, etc... Personally I fear that the frivolous spending ways of Savard vs his low performance could be, for our franchise, a much quicker and devastating cancer then Houle's sometimes questionable player movement.
The return on Gilmour, Chow, Audette, Hackett, McKay, Dykhuis is less of a concern then the actual fact of ridding the team of their salary/low performance and bringing in young guys that will get better with time like Ward, Hossa, Hainsey, etc…<br> I know people will tell me, "what do you care it's not your money", but if we can't resign Koivu after a career year because we must cut about 15mil of salary, then the fans will suddenly wake up to an new reality.
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Post by AH on Dec 2, 2002 10:11:17 GMT -5
Once again - not a course of action I would want AS to try and hold. More stop gap measures? Can't you hear Dis and BC and HA all screaming bloody blue and purple murder at the mere thought of this? Bring in more oldies for the sake of making the playoffs and scratch all your young guys? Hah. Suggesting that could be suicidal on this board. The reason I am suggesting more stop gap measures is because it is obvious this team is unwilling to give their young guys a shot. Of course I would rather Hossa be the second line LW and *gulp* Ribs be the second line C, and Hainsey playing, etc .... Getting guys like Mceachern will not cost you any of your top 10 prospects. Maybe a Hack can get us something ... I just want him to round out the club a little better. Forget the playoffs, what I doubt GG would accept being out of the playoffs with a $46 million payroll. He could achieve that with a $35 million payroll. The extra $10 million being paid out now is in essence decimating our cupboard for cash. Our future war-chest would be decimated. Seeing how Savard has been unable to resolve the goaltending issue for 2 years now, I doubt he has the ability to resolve the forward surplus issue any time soon. My biggest fear right now is Petrov exercises his player option for next season and remains with the club, thus causing this traffic jam to continue and AS will do nothing about it, knowing how much he LOVES his assets. I also don't buy the argument that Czerk was brought in just in case Audi was unable to show he had his hands back. They wanted to go with three scoring lines with Czerk being a LWinger. After the first three games of the season, the entire idea blew up in their face, and now they are stuck with whatever roster problems they have now. Andre Savard may be a great scout, a super-scout even. But don't tell me that automatically makes him a good manager. He has done a fair job in accumulating NHL talent, but he has failed thus far in building a coherent team. And I won't even bring up how he has managed to spend GG's money like e drunken sailor with very little results. Bah ... I just brought it up ... Oh well ... ;D
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Post by KR on Dec 2, 2002 10:37:52 GMT -5
why does AS want youth anyway. ! Beats me. The team won't play them anyway. Might as well get a 32-35 year old, about 5'10" and 180 lbs that scored 4 goals last year , but can play both ways and provide leadership
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 2, 2002 10:59:28 GMT -5
That's a loaded statement if there ever was one. Savard has been 'unable' to resolve the goaltending issue for two years now? Really. Because I can't remember a period of time longer than a month in the last two seasons where both goalies have been healthy enough to trade. We've been very lucky that Savard didn't 'resolve' the goaltending issue. Or have you forgotten last year we were forced to call up a junior prospect to play. A junior prospect. Ridiculous!
Had we not had Hackett, Theo and Garon we would've been forced to call up Michaud all the much earlier. And while I'm all for setting records, I don't think youngest starting goalie is one I'm really interested in.
I agree - the amount we're paying out for a .500 team is ridiculous. But look at where that money is going to. Audette whom honestly is impossible to demote at the present (hear that clicking sound? That's the french media typing up preformatted 'anglo-conspiracy' articles just waiting for something like that) and is essentially valueless. Hackett and Gilmour who should be off the books by the end of the season (unless Gilmour gives us an indication he has yet another season in the tank and/or we trade Garon). Theodore - who although he isn't earning it quite yet, we all hope he'll shake off this funk and return to old form. Really - this is just a hump year where we have a bunch of old guys that won't be paid next year playing at the same time as young guys who just got new, fat contracts.
Well - you know. Maybe he's not so great. After all he only built this team to where it is from scratch (okay, okay - we already had Hackett, Theo and Koivu). I mean it's not like he's brought anything to the team... he hasn't brought in any good players at all. Well - except Zednik, and Bulis, and Audette (who despite his piss poor play is still better than Rucinsky), and Czerkawski, and Juneau, and Dackell, and Kilger, and...
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 12:00:03 GMT -5
Rhiessan, like many of us have suggested for months, what the HABS should do is go with a cheap youngster driven lineup. Right now, the HABS could very well miss the playoffs with their huge 48mil salary burden and if that happens it's gonna leave scares... Gillett doesn't have endless pockets and the time to massively invest and roll the dice wasn't now, it's gonna be in 2-3 years when we're gonna have to fight to retain the Zednik, Koivu and Theo and resign our Hossa, Hainsey, Komi, etc... Personally I fear that the frivolous spending ways of Savard vs his low performance could be, for our franchise, a much quicker and devastating cancer then Houle's sometimes questionable player movement. The return on Gilmour, Chow, Audette, Hackett, McKay, Dykhuis is less of a concern then the actual fact of ridding the team of their salary/low performance and bringing in young guys that will get better with time like Ward, Hossa, Hainsey, etc…<br> I know people will tell me, "what do you care it's not your money", but if we can't resign Koivu after a career year because we must cut about 15mil of salary, then the fans will suddenly wake up to an new reality. Holy crap you may be right. Georgie ain't going to be happy if such a huge payroll fails to make the playoffs and it may never go back that high ever again with him at the helm. Thank god the only long term contract on the books we can't move and we are stuck with is Audette's. Plus, it wouldn't be a disaster if the names mentionned above don't get us a big return. What did we pay to get Chow? Asham and a 5th...Petrov? we signed him out of the Swiss league! Dykhuis we got fro free! It's not like we gave up the future to get them.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 12:01:54 GMT -5
Beats me. The team won't play them anyway. Might as well get a 32-35 year old, about 5'10" and 180 lbs that scored 4 goals last year , but can play both ways and provide leadership and makes a paltry 2-3 million per year
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 2, 2002 12:50:20 GMT -5
Well, I think this whole debate revolves around whether or not you think Savard has a master plan involving the kids, or not. If, like some, you think Savard is just trying to buy some time for the blue-chippers to arrive, then yeah, the payroll, and the playoffs, and the way the team looks now, are of little consequence.
On the other hand, if you think Savard really thought the team he constructed right now had a chance of doing something, if you believe this is the team he wants to go with, and the model he wants to continue using, then maybe you are right in questioning his judgement.
While it would be easy to dismiss the latter argument, it can't really be ignored. What is it now? 13 straight +30 year old veterans? That's overloading, anyway you look at it. Could he have not gotten more guys like Kilger, Zednik and Bulis?
Personally, I think Savard really does have option one in mind, the buy time option. But he went a little too far, and left his team with little flexibility in the short term. Not to mention an expensive, mediocre, and lets face it, boring team...
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Post by montreal on Dec 2, 2002 15:09:25 GMT -5
Well, I think this whole debate revolves around whether or not you think Savard has a master plan involving the kids, or not. If, like some, you think Savard is just trying to buy some time for the blue-chippers to arrive, then yeah, the payroll, and the playoffs, and the way the team looks now, are of little consequence. On the other hand, if you think Savard really thought the team he constructed right now had a chance of doing something, if you believe this is the team he wants to go with, and the model he wants to continue using, then maybe you are right in questioning his judgement. While it would be easy to dismiss the latter argument, it can't really be ignored. What is it now? 13 straight +30 year old veterans? That's overloading, anyway you look at it. Could he have not gotten more guys like Kilger, Zednik and Bulis? Personally, I think Savard really does have option one in mind, the buy time option. But he went a little too far, and left his team with little flexibility in the short term. Not to mention an expensive, mediocre, and lets face it, boring team... Well from everthing I have read, my opinion is that Savard is just buying time. Everyone wants youth in the lineup, but Savard's prospects aren't ready yet. Besides, Markov 23, Ribeiro 22, Bulis 24, there's Ward 23 who is playing good now, but who thought he would be leading the AHL in scoring over the summer. I didn't think he was even going to be resigned (neither did Jason from what I read), so he wasn't in the plans, but it looks like he may have written himself into them now. Hossa 21, was asked to be more productive and better down low (his words on the radio, Cham 820) so I guess Savard felt he wasn't ready for full time duty. Hainsey 21, well we saw his brief stint, and hopefully next time he looks a lot better. I'm sorry but I don't buy it for one second that Hainsey isn't better off right now playing a major role in Hamilton, over playing 8-9 minutes, then sitting a few games. He hasn't been that great in Hamilton, and still isn't phyiscal and still seems to have some troubles in his own end. He's not ready, and unless injury or trades happen, I don't think we will see much of Ron this year, and I think thats good. Garon 24, well I'm not sold on Garon, but he did have a good camp. Unless he's going to play against the Thrashers every game, I don't think he's ready. I don't even see him as a good backup in the NHL. He has to get a lot better, and at his age, I wonder how much better can he get. I know that if we trade Hackett, I will be neverous everytime I hear that Garon is in nets. So far in Hamilton he's been good and bad, getting 2 SO's then giving up 8 goals in one game. Komisarek 20, not many go from sophmore to NHL overnight. Maybe next year, or the year after, but he will be in the NHL, and there's no reason to rush him, he is the future, and giving him some time down on the farm to make mistakes and learn from them is a good ideal, IMO. He's already picked up the offence, now he just needs to work on his own end of things.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 2, 2002 15:34:47 GMT -5
No doubt Savard overreached on the veteran front, especially the McKay and Czerkawski signings. We have had this debate ad nauseum, but BC is correct that the glut of forwards and poor performance has made the short-term problem very tough to fix.
We all know that Savard is thinking 2-3 years ahead, but the fact that it would take all sorts of roster gymnastics just to call up a guy like Jason Ward for a few games to see how he looks is pretty sad and speaks to Savard's poor handling of the current team.
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 15:45:45 GMT -5
hindsight is a beautiful thing. AS wouldn't have made certain moves, if he had a crystal ball, to show him future events. how many of us were dissappointed with the chow for asham trade when it happened, or with the mckay signing. maybe right now we have 2 too many forwards, but if we had a typical season, 3 or 4 of them would be on the dl by now. the fact of the matter is, these additions didn't cost us anything, player wise, and added more depth to the club. with that said, i agree that a 2 or 3 for 1 trade, would help this team, but without the extra depth, it would be much more difficult to do. as for prospects who should be up with the big club, the list starts and ends with - none. hainsey needs time on the farm to regain his confidence, komo and hossa are just not ready yet. at some point, if ward continues his early pace, i think he will get a look. just don't be too dissappointed, if he looks like a 4th liner at best, it's a BIG jump from the ahl to the nhl.
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Post by PTH on Dec 2, 2002 16:49:02 GMT -5
Darz.... I can say that I disliked the audette deal from day 1, and thought the Asham deal only worked if followed by other deals.
It doesn't take a genius to see that AS has got himself into trouble, all on his own.
The goalie situation, along with keeping Gilmour after his end to last season, are IMO understandable mistakes. There was no easy way out.
The RW surplus, the all-around softness and (old) age of the team, and the logjam of big contracts on defense are his fault, and his alone.
The only guy on D he acquired is Quintal, but he also re-signed Dykhuis, Brisebois, Rivet and Traverse to long-term contracts. Don't wonder why our kids aren't getting chances. Don't wonder why Ward, Komisarek and Hainsey won't get chances soon.
There's just no room. You can thank André.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 16:58:33 GMT -5
For one of the rare times I entirely agree with PTH on something Well written post bud!
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 2, 2002 17:02:08 GMT -5
hindsight is a beautiful thing. AS wouldn't have made certain moves, if he had a crystal ball, to show him future events. how many of us were dissappointed with the chow for asham trade when it happened, or with the mckay signing. maybe right now we have 2 too many forwards, but if we had a typical season, 3 or 4 of them would be on the dl by now. the fact of the matter is, these additions didn't cost us anything, player wise, and added more depth to the club. with that said, i agree that a 2 or 3 for 1 trade, would help this team, but without the extra depth, it would be much more difficult to do. as for prospects who should be up with the big club, the list starts and ends with - none. hainsey needs time on the farm to regain his confidence, komo and hossa are just not ready yet. at some point, if ward continues his early pace, i think he will get a look. just don't be too dissappointed, if he looks like a 4th liner at best, it's a BIG jump from the ahl to the nhl. The whole hindsight excuse doesn't work this time... From the top of my head, I can think of over half a dozen posters from this site that felt the McKay and Chow acquisitions had to lead to a followthrough trade of some sort to relieve roster pressure. Many felt right from training camp that troubles were lurking because of an obvious lack of roster spot... If regular armchair GMs joe-Shmoes like us were able to see it coming form a distance, it's quite scary to think the guy who's on the job get surprised by it.
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Post by montreal on Dec 2, 2002 17:18:19 GMT -5
Darz.... I can say that I disliked the audette deal from day 1, and thought the Asham deal only worked if followed by other deals. It doesn't take a genius to see that AS has got himself into trouble, all on his own. The goalie situation, along with keeping Gilmour after his end to last season, are IMO understandable mistakes. There was no easy way out. The RW surplus, the all-around softness and (old) age of the team, and the logjam of big contracts on defense are his fault, and his alone. The only guy on D he acquired is Quintal, but he also re-signed Dykhuis, Brisebois, Rivet and Traverse to long-term contracts. Don't wonder why our kids aren't getting chances. Don't wonder why Ward, Komisarek and Hainsey won't get chances soon. There's just no room. You can thank André. All comon on. Ward had played one healthy season (last year), Komisarek was playing 30 games a year in the NCAA, and Hainsey showed he wasn't ready. It's easy to point the finger, but who thought Ward would be leading the AHL in scoring? after watching Hainsey and Komisarek, who thought they were ready for the NHL? Do you really think Komisarek would be better off in the NHL right now instead of Hamilton? After watching Hainsey, were you filled with excitement everytime he stepped on the ice, eagerly awaiting those fantastic moves and outstanding positioning! So are you saying that over the summer, you would have gotten rid of Quintal (our best defencemen in the playoffs) for Komisarek (zero pro experience) or Dykhuis (a +16 last year) for Hainsey (who looked really tired in the playoffs/end of the season) or not signed McKay who has 2 stanley cups and instead went with Ward cause he finally played a healthy season? After all the injuries we have had, it makes sense to acquire depth, at a minum cost to us, since there's no way we are going to win the cup this year, why not rent so players for the short term, even though a high pick this year would have been nice.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 17:28:28 GMT -5
I can already see PTH's reply. Montreal you just opened a huge can of worms ;D
Do you guys realise this was a thread reporting a rumored that was totally nixed by Sather? LOL
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 17:55:08 GMT -5
Darz.... I can say that I disliked the audette deal from day 1, and thought the Asham deal only worked if followed by other deals. It doesn't take a genius to see that AS has got himself into trouble, all on his own. The goalie situation, along with keeping Gilmour after his end to last season, are IMO understandable mistakes. There was no easy way out. The RW surplus, the all-around softness and (old) age of the team, and the logjam of big contracts on defense are his fault, and his alone. The only guy on D he acquired is Quintal, but he also re-signed Dykhuis, Brisebois, Rivet and Traverse to long-term contracts. Don't wonder why our kids aren't getting chances. Don't wonder why Ward, Komisarek and Hainsey won't get chances soon. There's just no room. You can thank André. 1. i gotta say, when i heard the audette trade, i wasn't jumping for joy, but i guarantte that was about the best you were going to get for martin rucinsky. audette's playoff performance last year makes the deal worthwhile. i think the team is better off with audette & chow then with rucinsky and asham. 2. the rw surplus was supposed to be addressed my moving left handed shots to the left side. maybe gambling that chow could become a left winger wasn't the right thing to do, but it cost us a 5th and asham. not a hell of a lot. 3. the old players AS has added are here filling roles until are prospects are ready. komo is not ready for the nhl for at least a year, hainsey will hopefully be back up soon, while ward, i've commented on a million times, 20 good games in the ahl, don't exactly make you an nhl prospect. i mean everyone of those teams who passed him up, during the waiver draft were obviously convinced he wasn't nhl material. i believe once a prospect is nhl ready, a move will be made to make a roster space available. my opinions.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 2, 2002 18:23:26 GMT -5
I'm with you Darz. If you listen to some of the frumpy old wenches here you'd get the impression that Spezza is being ruined by Ottawa, and Hainsey's being damaged here, and Markov's development is a shock because of how badly handled he was last year, and how Hossa is wasting away in Hamilton, and how we're ruining Ward, and the kids have no chance, and it's only because Savard has so many one-way contracts that he's actually prevented from doing the right, just and obvious thing, which is to call up Ward, Hossa and Hainsey now. It's all lies. And history doesn't help their argument, because Savard has shown a willingness to let guys collect their NHL paycheques in the AHL (witness Poulin, Darby and Traverse). So if Hainsey were really ready, and Traverse were the odd man out, Savard wouldn't hesitate to assign Traverse to Hamilton and play Ron. It just so happens that Savard's convinced, on balance, that Hainsey can benefit more from a few more months in Hamilton. I don't think much of the counterarguments which aim to persuade that Hainsey will develop faster or better here. I think they're weak arguments. Likewise, I suspect that Lindsay would be assigned or waived if Savard thought it best in the longterm to have Ward here rather than in Hamilton. He doesn't and it's hard to quarrel with unless you're prepared to abandon reason altogether.
It's not that I would mind seeing those guys up here (I'd get a kick out of it) but what's ennervating is the determination on the part of some to describe the current state of affairs as some sort of intractable, tangled mess that will take years to sort out and will seriously impede the development of the Habs best prospects, all of which is complete, unadulterated nonsense that appeals mostly to minds which are themselves strangers to reason...In fact, anyone can plainly see that the Habs are nicely positioned to off-load (through expiry) most of their ugly contracts when the current CBA expires in July 2004. There's no reason to think that Savard won't have a very manageable payroll in the range of 40 or 45 million by then....The only guys who are going to be up for significant raises will be Zednik and Koivu, all the rest are under contract for more or less reasonable amounts, and a few fat cats like Quintal, Gilmour, Hackett, Audette and Mckay will be gone. We will have by then a number of young d-men (Komisarek, Hainsey, Markov, Souray) who'll be in the sub 2 million range with the possible exception of Markov, and we'll have a number of young forwards making high 6 figure numbers (the likes of Hossa, Plekanec, Milroy, Higgins, Ward, Balej etc).
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 2, 2002 19:11:16 GMT -5
Hackett has been the best player we have this year. He is steady, dependable, and not a complainer although he's had lot's of reason to be unhappy with the treatment he's been given.
You don't trade your best player/goaltender. Ask Houle if he would do it again. And Roy was complaining loudly at the time!
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Post by AH on Dec 2, 2002 19:36:33 GMT -5
I am of a stance that if Savard feels the kids are better off in Hamilton, then I have no knowledge to think otherwise. After all, he is the expert in these matters. Would I love it if Hossa and the rest were already here ? SURE I would. But that fact remains that a better judge in such matters is making that decision and until further notice, he is better at it than I am.
But where I have serious issues with Savard is in the manner in which the current NHL team was assembled. All I want him to do is tweak the lineup further and bring some God Damn balance to this lineup. If we are going with these old farts, then might as well get a LWinger to play on the second line. With Czerk having asked for a trade, his hand has been forced. Bring in some defensive help. Empty out some of the one-dimensional players ... bring in some more guts to the roster, even if it is some more stop gap measures.
Although I haven't been posting here long, I am very much with, and have been since the summer, one of the proponents of follow-up moves to the Chow and Mckay acquisitions. And we are all still waiting. As much as I would like to see MT get canned, I can't for sure say that he does not deserve more time with a more balanced roster to prove himself. He is owed at least that much.
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Post by PTH on Dec 2, 2002 21:17:31 GMT -5
All comon on. Ward had played one healthy season (last year), Komisarek was playing 30 games a year in the NCAA, and Hainsey showed he wasn't ready. It's easy to point the finger, but who thought Ward would be leading the AHL in scoring? after watching Hainsey and Komisarek, who thought they were ready for the NHL? Do you really think Komisarek would be better off in the NHL right now instead of Hamilton? After watching Hainsey, were you filled with excitement everytime he stepped on the ice, eagerly awaiting those fantastic moves and outstanding positioning! I won't get caught in specifics, since I'm no top-notch judge of talent. Then again, no one is. Players sometimes surprise you, and it's my firm belief that a well-organised team has to have the flexibility to deal with events as they unfold. Peter Popovic. Remember him ? Training camp 1994, basically, no one had heard of the guy, he came to camp, impressed like he11, and made the team. Right now, it doesn't matter who did how well in camp, the roster was set before camp even opened. Quintal wasn't that great in the playoffs, but yeah, I would have considered moving him so that we could keep perhaps Robidas, the idea being that if Komisarek were ready, then Robidas is expendable. OR at least you don't re-sign Dykhuis. I don't care which of the vets AS chooses to let go, but somewhere along the line you have to make room for kids. I'm not saying we need to have open slots ready to give to the kids, but we do need to have cheap spare parts on the 4th line who can be demoted when needed. Lindsay and Bouillon are exactly what this team needs for the role players - ie, fillers, who can do the job but who are expendable. What hope does any forward have of making the team when a proven scorer like Chow sits out regularly ? If it were just the "short term", yeah, I'd be OK with it. But Quintal, Traverse, Rivet, McKay, Dykhuis and others will be around all the way till next season ends. That's an awful long time to have kids sitting idly by, with no hope of making the team.
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Post by PTH on Dec 2, 2002 21:24:28 GMT -5
1. i gotta say, when i heard the audette trade, i wasn't jumping for joy, but i guarantte that was about the best you were going to get for martin rucinsky. audette's playoff performance last year makes the deal worthwhile. i think the team is better off with audette & chow then with rucinsky and asham. Well, we owe Audette 8 million or so, and he cleared waivers. To me, that means he has negative value at this point. Simply doing nothing and losing Rucinsky as a UFA would have been better than having a player with negative value. To me, the question isn't Audette&Chow vs Rucinsky and Asham - Rucinsky was leaving anyhow. But just imagine what we could have done with the salary from Audette and Chow - last summer a UFA took a long time to find a taker, and signed for about 6 million - Tony Amonte. If we'd had neither Audette nor Chow, we could have taken a run at him. Amonte and Asham sure looks better than Chow and Audette to me.... and even if we failed, why not have Berezin as our ageing scoring winger, on the last year of his contract, rather than guys with 3 and 2 years left ? If Berezin sucked, at least you wouldn't owe him 8 million bucks... A 5th, Asham, 3 million bucks or so, and team unity. Seems like quite a gamble to me. Anyhow, wouldn't knowing where Chow can play be part of player evaluation, something AS is supposed to be good at ? Oops..... Funny, people said that before camp, and yet, however badly any of the veterans played, and however well the kids played, it changed nothing. Zilch. Nada. Rien. Zippo. The roster was set before we even knew who was going to camp. (sarcasm mode on) That's a great way of developping prospects. (sarcasm mode off)
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