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Post by Viper on Nov 30, 2002 20:47:28 GMT -5
that Savard offered Hackett to the ranger's for lundmark and Tjutin New York Post, Fan 590 and then davidson confirmed the post article tonight on the satelite hotstove. MAybe Marc is right something is a brewin.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 21:06:14 GMT -5
That would be a freakin steal for us
One of them would be great but the two..wow
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Post by PTH on Nov 30, 2002 21:41:20 GMT -5
That would be a freakin steal for us One of them would be great but the two..wow The rumour is "for a young guy like Tutin or Lundmark" - ie, just 1, and NYR apparently said "no way".
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 30, 2002 21:46:08 GMT -5
Tjutin...smutjin. Me thinks we should resign Hackett.
2 million a year for 3 years. Have I heard that before? *glances over at BC*
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 21:49:26 GMT -5
He will never re-sign for that
You could offer him 5 million per year and I doubt he would accept. He wants a number 1 job more than $$ right now IMO.
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Post by Vichab on Dec 1, 2002 0:30:09 GMT -5
they said that sather said no young guys. that says to me that they are interested in Hack. i love hack and hate to see him go. but he will not be here next year and we might as well get something for him. Let's not do what houle did year after year losing good players to FA and getting nothing or waiting too long so had to settle for next to nothing. why does AS want youth anyway. We got some coming in a year or two. I want a player in there mid to late twenties who can play on the second line now. some of you are keen on Dvorak which would be okay although he may be another Cz with injury problemswhich we don't need. i just looked over the Rangers lineup and there is not alot to choose from which is why AS is probably going for the young players as he thinks he's got a trading partner for Hack. If the youngins aren't on then the only two that i think might help are Nedved and Murray. Ned has problems with his attitude but he is an offensinve center but has a salary. Murray isn't going to turn this ship around but i think he could help. i think AS is trying hard to get a good deal. If it's not there i don't think he should force it with Hack right now until theo finds his game but it's a fine line and we don't want to wait too long.
"lil'vichab" i think we played well.hacket played pretty well.rebierro really scares me on the point, though.i know we can't afford keeping theo and hack,but i rather have theo even if his game isn't on.next game, wednesday against dallas.bring it on!
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 1, 2002 1:42:32 GMT -5
Tjutin...smutjin. Me thinks we should resign Hackett. 2 million a year for 3 years. Have I heard that before? *glances over at BC* I suggested resigning Hackett a few months ago. He's the one constent on this team. Cheers.
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Post by Yossarian on Dec 1, 2002 2:00:58 GMT -5
If it turns out that Richter can't play effectively, then a deal with the Rangers will likely get done, pobably later rather than sooner, given Sather's stance, IMO. Hackett really is the Rangers best option now that Dafoe has signed. However, from a Habs standpoint, if we are in a race for the playoffs, and the Rangers are another party in that race, we'd probably be assisting their cause by giving them Hackett, to the possible detriment of our playoff drive if AS settles for kids who can't help our own cause in the short term. Just a thought.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 9:29:49 GMT -5
i just looked over the Rangers lineup and there is not alot to choose from which is why AS is probably going for the young players as he thinks he's got a trading partner for Hack. If the youngins aren't on then the only two that i think might help are Nedved and Murray. Ned has problems with his attitude but he is an offensinve center but has a salary. Murray isn't going to turn this ship around but i think he could help. i think AS is trying hard to get a good deal. If it's not there i don't think he should force it with Hack right now until theo finds his game but it's a fine line and we don't want to wait too long. Well, if we get another NHL forward for Hack it just makes matters worse. Unless you deal one to the NYR(say Kilger who Sather loves). I also think Lundmark could be in the NHL right now on most teams. The Rangers sent him down because, like Montreal right now, they can't tolerate rookies making mistakes while not producing. But believe me, I saw this kid play at the WJC, and he is loaded with talent. He is not that big(I think he is 6 feet or 6'1') but very talented and pretty fast. He can play LW or center. Only 21
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Post by AH on Dec 1, 2002 11:37:02 GMT -5
If this rumour is true, then it further goes to show that Savard is far removed from reality. Like I said in another thread, he is waiting for a sweetheart deal for Hackett (a la Oates deal last year) to move him, when in fact he should just move him (and others) for the sake of the team.
Lundmark and Tyutin are blue-chip prospects. That's like asking us for Hainsey or Komisarek for Hackett. That's crazy ...
Savard: Get off your high-horse and do something.
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 1, 2002 12:09:47 GMT -5
Yeah, so instead he should run around and make the first the deal offered to him. Which would make him more or less a clone of... gasp....
Rejean Houle.
The hallmark of Houle reign were trades that made no sense, trades that were rushed and a total lack of a plan for the future. Guess what? It doesn't matter a lick if the Habs make the playoffs this year. I'm sure we'd all love it, but it's all gravy if we do.
You want to know what Savard's doing? Look at the pre 97-98 Senators. A team filled with veterens where youth slowly replaced the aging parts. How about the 2001-2002 Habs? The 2002-2003 Habs. Filled with veterens, with youth slowly replacing the aging parts. Right now, Savard's not in a rush to make the playoffs. He's not in a rush to get rid of MT or Rick Green. Why? Because they make perfect fall guys if he needs to fire someone for screwing up.
Everyone's jumping on the fanti-Savard bandwagon like he was incompetant or something. Tell me, where we're we two years ago? Hell, 97-98 was the last year we had a team that had a significantly better than .500 record. Before last year that is. Tell me, besides the Traverse for Weinrich deal what bad trades has Savard made? Rucinsky for Audette? Was a wonderful deal until Audette went and sliced open his arm. Savage and a couple picks for Berezin - on the surface it looked to be a much better deal than it became, namely because Savard took a chance on an injured player hoping he would regain his formidable former form. He didn't - but it was a calculated risk and I don't think we lost too much for it. Or maybe you'd like to fault him for the aquisitions of Juneau, Zednik, Bulis, Dackell - not to mention his drafting of Komisarek and Higgins and a few other highly touted prospects. In two years Savard's done something amazing.
He's given us hope.
Unfortunatly, we're Habs fans. We put everything under the microscope and disect it seven different ways from Sunday. When we're hopefull, that means we have to win the cup. It's the laws of nature. We are the Canadiens.
And so we're tearing down a guy who has created a team that can compete. Yeah - we're playing perfectly .500 hockey. Guess what - the cups a couple years from coming home yet. And it'll be more if we kick out Savard and try to intall some new guy who has a different plan.
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Post by darz on Dec 1, 2002 12:17:10 GMT -5
Yeah, so instead he should run around and make the first the deal offered to him. Which would make him more or less a clone of... gasp.... Rejean Houle. so true, was about to make a post, then read your's, and you said everything i wanted to say.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 12:19:55 GMT -5
No one thinks he is an incompent like Houle, TNG.
But what were wondering is if his patience hurt/is hurting him...we are wondering why he picked up so many right wingers,stuff like that.
The guy is an excellent hockey mind. No doubt about it. We just want to see some of the mess he has helped create, cleaned up.
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 1, 2002 12:36:50 GMT -5
But that's what I'm asking. How can it hurt him if this year is a wash anyways. We win, we lose - what does it really matter. Because we might lose Garon to free agency? Here's a hint folks - he went through waivers once already this year. I'm going to make a guess here that he's not exactly going to pull in top dollar. The right wing problem you say? The way I see it we've got our defensive winger (Dackell), our grinding winger (McKay) and three scoring wingers (Petrov, Audette, Czerkawski). The problem? Three scoring wingers and only two slots open for them. Unfortunate, but I'd hardly call it a problem. The problem with the right wing situation is that Therrien refuses to sit Audi and play the more talented (right now) Czerkawski. But that's really not AS's problem - not right now anyways.
There's an old cliche Marc. Haste makes waste. Savard can take all the time he wants as far as I'm concerned. Patience is actually what makes Savard a good GM.
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Post by darz on Dec 1, 2002 12:42:09 GMT -5
No one thinks he is an incompent like Houle, TNG. But what were wondering is if his patience hurt/is hurting him...we are wondering why he picked up so many right wingers,stuff like that. The guy is an excellent hockey mind. No doubt about it. We just want to see some of the mess he has helped create, cleaned up. i agree. i believe that AS is checking a ton of different options, and will soon start clearing up some of the mess. none of his transaction really cost us anything, so there is no long term damage done. i gotta like having too many nhl'ers than too few, a staple of the houle era.
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Post by Chopper on Dec 1, 2002 12:46:59 GMT -5
There's no way to say if patience is the key or not, it could go either way. With the Rangers situation, not knowing how long Richter will be out for, and Blackburn playing well, Sather doesn't need to give up a blue chip prospect. But if Richter has lingering post concusion syndrome problems, and Blackburn cracks under the pressure of the New York media. Sather might have to deal a good prospect to get the goaltending he needs. If that happens and we do get either Lundmark or Tjutin for Hackett say by the new year, everyone will think AS is a genius for holding out for more. But what if Richter does come back or Blackburn just gets better with the more playing time, then there won't be a deal with the Rangers.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 12:54:30 GMT -5
The right wing problem you say? The way I see it we've got our defensive winger (Dackell), our grinding winger (McKay) and three scoring wingers (Petrov, Audette, Czerkawski). The problem? Three scoring wingers and only two slots open for them. Unfortunate, but I'd hardly call it a problem. The problem with the right wing situation is that Therrien refuses to sit Audi and play the more talented (right now) Czerkawski. But that's really not AS's problem - not right now anyways. But if you do that, you create even bigger problems. First you have the french media who will lynch Therrien for doing that and create another distration. 2nd, Chow goes from mad to happy and Audette goes from happy to mad. But Audette is the kind of guy who can ruin team spirit when he is not happy. Chow won't say a thing and he will just go to the pressbox and watch the game from up there. It can be a nice problem to have if you are doing it with younger players who have no NHL experience. But when you are dealing with veterans, it can get explosive quickly. Same here. I always said I was going to look at his draft picks and his trades that were aimed at the long term(Zednik one) when it comes to judging him when his career as our GM will be over. In a few years, we will have forgotten about these stop gap moves of the last 2 season and we could be saying...''wow...what a pick Komisarek was, ditto for Higgins and Plekanec and Perezhogin and man that Zednik trade was highway robbery''.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Dec 1, 2002 12:55:46 GMT -5
No way we deal a guy like Lundmark or Tjutin for Hackett, simply impossible.... can't blame Savard for trying, never know when a GM will come into work on the reefer and accept a ridiculous offer like a 4th overall pick for Fedotenko or something.
Notice also that it was Savard who offered to Sather... Sather's not making the calls because he's either still unclear on Richter's health or he knows he's getting better. I'd be highly surprised if a deal for Hackett happened anytime soon, especially a deal like that.
quick note.... Nedved has (gasp) been playing real hard this year. I've been on this guy for years, made me sick the way he used to play, but I can't complain about him this year. Would like to see a little more offense from him, but when his overall game is as good as it has been, it's not a concern.
Dvorak, McCarthy 4 Hackett, Kilger.... that's a rough idea of the kinda deal I'd expect to see, but not for at least another month.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 13:19:08 GMT -5
Dvorak, McCarthy 4 Hackett, Kilger.... that's a rough idea of the kinda deal I'd expect to see, but not for at least another month. You guys would have to take one our RW's(Chow, Petrov or Audette) to make it happen.
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Post by Viper on Dec 1, 2002 13:54:55 GMT -5
The fact it exists is Savards fault when making the deal for Cerkawski he must have realized what it would create considering the style of player he is not to mention the acquisition of Mckay only created an even bigger logjam. Asset management in those acquisitions has been poor IMO. we could have used help on the left side but didn't get any we could have used some size up the middle but didn't get any. The one place we didn't need to add more was the right side but he went out and got 2 more guys. Don't get me wrong i don't want Savard fired (at least not yet anyways ) but there's no reason why the team filled with veteran's can't at least be a somewhat orderly more balanced lineup our (braindead needs all the help he can get) coach can work with. It makes me question his so called vision and his great hockey mind when a lineup is so out of wack as it is. It also concerns me that if the great Saint Savard and co don't see and correct the imbalance then we can't expect anything to improve in the future as we'll see more of the same. It's fine and dandy to have a ton of spare parts and depth i have no problem with that as it gives the management and coaching staff (well at least a real coaching staff anyhow) options as to who sits and who doesn't based on performance. Our MTHEAD AND GREEN EGGS don't use that very well either. Also, the loads of spare parts don't fit together coherently which makes for just as big a mess as a bunch of inexperienced kids learning the ropes. Given the choice of A. kids learning or B. the overpaid underachieving cluster that we have. I take A because at least if they don't perform it's easy to attribute the answer's
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Post by AH on Dec 1, 2002 14:05:48 GMT -5
It makes me question his so called vision and his great hockey mind when a lineup is so out of wack as it is. It also concerns me that if the great Saint Savard and co don't see and correct the imbalance then we can't expect anything to improve in the future as we'll see more of the same. His brain created this mess, now let's see if his brain has necessary tools to undo this mess. Funny thing is, for all the supposed depth that we have, if any one of Zed or Koivu goes down, then the season will surely be a write-off. That's how precarious the situation is with this team. When you have only 2 offensive players firing on all cylinders, then you can expect bad things to happen sooner or later.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 15:17:17 GMT -5
(Dec. 1st) The Montreal Canadiens continue to field offers (and make their own) for goalie Jeff Hackett. The New York Post reported Saturday that the Habs offered Hackett to the Rangers, but wanted one of Jamie Lundmark or Fedor Tyutin in return. GM Glen Sather refused the deal, as he does not want to part with any young talent (prospects). www.thefourtperiod.com
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 1, 2002 16:56:49 GMT -5
I disagree. There's a log jam, but in truth, I don't see the logjam itself hurting the team. The only guy on the right side that could be called up right now is Ward, and he's already had a chance to prove himself in the NHL (and failed to do so). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he should never be given another chance, but right now we have McKay and Dackell to do the job that he would do (a defensive-minded winger), and frankly both McKay and Dackell bring more to the team than Ward would at this juncture. The log jam is essentially restricted the the #1 and #2 offensive right wing positions, which by all reports I've heard, is not what Ward is looking to be doing.
Granted - perhaps we could've not signed McKay over the summer and put all our faith in Jason, but that sounds like a bad plan to me.
As for 'asset management', I think we were damn lucky to get a guy like Czerkawski for Ashram. I don't think we could've gotten a big pivot for him. A strong LW maybe - but who knows what else he could've gotten. People have gone on record complaining about Savard's "lack of action" - I think we can easily say that Savard probably checked out all the possibilities and took the best player availible for the team. McKay? Well - I don't recall being in the running for many free agents. Again - we took what was availible.
Once again - I don't see the lineup out of wack being his fault as much as it is Therrien's fault. Want to know why Traverse plays and Hainsey doesn't. Want to bet it's because Hainsey wasn't getting much ice time with M.T. at the helm and so A.S. sent him down so he could play. Most likely the same reason Markov struggled to maintain a spot on the team last year. Who starts where and who doesn't is solely the purviw of the coach - I have yet to see evidence of a great deal of team tampering by AS (besides the speeches tellis Les Gars to smarten up).
Essentially - look at the big picture. The kids are learning in the AHL, and every now and again one of them gets a break into the big leagues. The veterens are holding the team together and probaly causing a lot of headaches for MT, but probably also teaching the kids that do get the call ups a great deal. MT and RG are running the team into the ground, but that's okay for now.
Really - like what appears to be Savard's personal mantra, patience is it right now. Relax, calm down. If we don't make the playoffs this season it's not the end of the world. I'm thinking two-three years down the road. Don't you think Zednick and Koivu will look good with Balej or some other winger?
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Post by Rhiessan on Dec 1, 2002 17:04:24 GMT -5
The more and more I step back and think about what's been going on (or not going on) I come to the conclusion that AS is just doing enough to get through this season .500 hoping to squeek into the playoff's. I think he has a plan but I don't think it unfolds untill next year. Why? Glad you asked . Well next year we will have lost Hacks, Dougie and Lindsay for sure and maybe Petrov. We have player's that HAVE to have a real shot at the big(small)club such as Hainsey, Komisarek, Ward(probably needs a shot now or he's gone), Hossa, Higgins, Garon(same as Ward). To be honest I haven't been this excited about the prospects coming into the lineup next year since the year Sak's finally came over and V. Bure came up. I think AS is looking at it the same way. He's giving the prospects valuable time to mature and at the same time keeping the Habs a step outta the fire. If i'm right he's waiting to see how the team does in the next month or so to see just who might be deemed expendable(bad record= longer list) and won't do any deals that will only have short term ramifications. When he does get a deal done it will be to address the only problem that won't be solved through the farm next year and that's....(surprise, surprise)....forwards with size that can actually keep up! In closing I'm not saying I'm giving up on this year(far from it) but i'm just looking at it for what it is, which is we aren't really a great cup contender now but we will take big strides toward that goal next year and would not wanna jepordize that. I will continue to live and die with this team no matter what happens but there's a growing sense of excitment in the back of my mind for next year. ;D
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 17:06:11 GMT -5
Well if we don't make the playoffs this year, something will keep on being mentionned next year
''Habs have missed the playoffs in 4 of the last 5 seasons''
And what we accomplised last year will not be continued this year. We will not continue the momentum building and it makes last year look like an absolute fluke.
But if it is enough to fix the problems in this organization, it could be worth it
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 17:11:04 GMT -5
Well next year we will have lost Hacks, Dougie and Lindsay for sure and maybe Petrov. We have player's that HAVE to have a real shot at the big(small)club such as Hainsey, Komisarek, Ward(probably needs a shot now or he's gone), Hossa, Higgins, Garon(same as Ward). To be honest I haven't been this excited about the prospects coming into the lineup next year since the year Sak's finally came over and V. Bure came up. I think AS is looking at it the same way. He's giving the prospects valuable time to mature and at the same time keeping the Habs a step outta the fire. If i'm right he's waiting to see how the team does in the next month or so to see just who might be deemed expendable(bad record= longer list) and won't do any deals that will only have short term ramifications. When he does get a deal done it will be to address the only problem that won't be solved through the farm next year and that's....(surprise, surprise)....forwards with size that can actually keep up! I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if... Garon replaces Hackett Hossa replaces Gilmour on the 2nd line Ward replaces Lindsay on the roster Hainsey replaces Petrov on the roster Those 4 youngsters already have NHL experience so it won't kill us breaking them in. If the team falls out of contention by March...expect most of those names to be called up and get a cup of coffee! Me too. I am excited for next year, the year after, the year after that,etc. I get the feeling we are on the verge of seeing a young/exciting/talent/fast team very soon and that makes the current team all the more painful to watch because you know the good times are just around the corner
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Post by montreal on Dec 1, 2002 17:36:14 GMT -5
The more and more I step back and think about what's been going on (or not going on) I come to the conclusion that AS is just doing enough to get through this season .500 hoping to squeek into the playoff's. I think he has a plan but I don't think it unfolds untill next year. Why? Glad you asked . Well next year we will have lost Hacks, Dougie and Lindsay for sure and maybe Petrov. We have player's that HAVE to have a real shot at the big(small)club such as Hainsey, Komisarek, Ward(probably needs a shot now or he's gone), Hossa, Higgins, Garon(same as Ward). To be honest I haven't been this excited about the prospects coming into the lineup next year since the year Sak's finally came over and V. Bure came up. I think AS is looking at it the same way. He's giving the prospects valuable time to mature and at the same time keeping the Habs a step outta the fire. If i'm right he's waiting to see how the team does in the next month or so to see just who might be deemed expendable(bad record= longer list) and won't do any deals that will only have short term ramifications. When he does get a deal done it will be to address the only problem that won't be solved through the farm next year and that's....(surprise, surprise)....forwards with size that can actually keep up! In closing I'm not saying I'm giving up on this year(far from it) but i'm just looking at it for what it is, which is we aren't really a great cup contender now but we will take big strides toward that goal next year and would not wanna jepordize that. I will continue to live and die with this team no matter what happens but there's a growing sense of excitment in the back of my mind for next year. ;D I agree, and I also look forward to the future. When you have guys like Komisarek, Hainsey, Hossa, Perezhogin, Higgins, the future looks bright. I support Savard cause I think his best asset is at the draft table (my favorite time of year, and most important). Just look at our farm system's turnaround in just 2 years. We went from Ribeiro, Chouinard, an often injured Ward, Bashkirov, Guren, ect... to Korneev, Lambert, Ferland (what a season he's having ).
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 1, 2002 18:14:08 GMT -5
If this rumour is true, then it further goes to show that Savard is far removed from reality. Like I said in another thread, he is waiting for a sweetheart deal for Hackett (a la Oates deal last year) to move him, when in fact he should just move him (and others) for the sake of the team. Lundmark and Tyutin are blue-chip prospects. That's like asking us for Hainsey or Komisarek for Hackett. That's crazy ... Savard: Get off your high-horse and do something. There is no urgency with Hackett since Garon cleared waivers. Hackett alone is unlikely to bring back a player who can help, so unless he's packaged it's pretty obvious that Hackett's more valuable to us now than any player he might be exchanged for. And if so, Savard is doing exactly the right thing in hanging on to Hackett for as long as he can (partly by asking too high a price, because you never know). If he stays, Hackett will probably steal another 20 points or more before the deadline, so why are you all hot to move him now? The guy Savard should be focusing on is Donald Audette. But that's no small job.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 18:19:19 GMT -5
I agree, and I also look forward to the future. When you have guys like Komisarek, Hainsey, Hossa, Perezhogin, Higgins, the future looks bright. You know what is cool? You mentionned those guys and there is still Ward, Hossa, Plekanec, Milroy and obviously some dark horses like Korneev, Lambert, Archer, Ferland, etc The farm system is in good shape and it could be in even better shape if those dark horses come through for us.
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Post by AH on Dec 1, 2002 20:31:29 GMT -5
ok enough with bigging up the farm system. I have yet to see the results so I can't afford to get too excited.
My concern is with the current team. This team has the horses to win the division. All that is needed are a couple of tweak jobs, like Audette to Utah for nothing, and along the way acquiring a Lwinger for the second line, even if it is someone like Shawn Mceachern who is a UFA at season's end and who is good at both ends of the ice. Maybe another R D-man can help as well (Kilger for Ference). After that, it is up to the coach. And I think once you give MT the right combinations, he can do a decent job.
We need a couple more stop gap measures until next year. This team has the talent, it just lacks the talent in the right spots.
Ward, Hossa, Hainsey, Garon can all step in next year and this team will probably not miss a beat. But for that to happen, the foundation to the team's play and cohesiveness as a unit has to be layed down right now.
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