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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 2, 2002 18:24:40 GMT -5
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 18:27:52 GMT -5
About time this happened!
Mariusz Czerkawski veut être échangé<br>Mariusz Czerkawski n'est vraiment pas content de son utilisation. Tellement pas content qu'il a demandé à la direction de l'équipe de l'échanger selon ce que RDS a appris lundi. Czerkawski a nettement l'impression que l'entraîneur-chef Michel Therrien a perdu confiance en lui.
Samedi contre les Flyers de Philadelphie, Czerkawski a été rayé de l'alignement pour la cinquième fois de la saison. Le joueur polonais pense que le temps est venu pour lui de changer d'air. En 19 matchs, Czerkawski a amassé deux buts et sept passes.
It's getting ugly. Real ugly.
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 18:28:28 GMT -5
no surprise about this one. gotta believe AS has been working the phones, trying to put together some sort of deal. patience is the key when making trades, and AS must remember that.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 2, 2002 18:29:32 GMT -5
I don't blame him. And there will be takers. If Savard gets stuck with Audette and loses Czerkawski, I will not be amused.
It's too bad. He hasn't been nearly as bad as Audette, and has half the first line and pp time to show for it. If it was Savard's plan to play (showcase) Audette and then play Czerk, he should've explained that to him. As it is, it's like they're competing for the same ice and the rules make no sense. Audette, btw, has been absolutely, completely, totally dreadul in the last few games....
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 18:31:16 GMT -5
Now, who wants him? where is he going? what are we going to get?
even if we don't get much, I won't cry. We only gave up Asham for this guy.
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 2, 2002 18:32:11 GMT -5
what a drag. boot therrien before chow... i think he can score for us if given the chance. we got him for basically nothing, so we'll get nothing in return for him. unless the rags are still interested in him and hack. then we could send those two for a promising player or two. just bothers me to think of what he has been, and what he'll probably be, and that our coach f'd it up. given that we already have trov and audette it's just as much as's fault as mt's.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 2, 2002 18:37:42 GMT -5
Hackett and Czerk for Tyutin? Or Lundmark?
Or Hackett, Czerk, Kilger and a 4th for both?
It would be too much goodness...
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Post by jkr on Dec 2, 2002 18:38:55 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that he has gone to the media with this but I do agree with his assesment - if he honestly believes Therrien has lost confidence. Just look at the Bruins game. Petrov -3, Gilmour & Perreauslt -4 & Czerkawksi sits the next game.
I think the Audette experiment or whatever you want to call his time on the Koivu line been a miserable failure. Time he went to the press box permanently.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 2, 2002 18:42:37 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that he has gone to the media with this but I do agree with his assesment - if he honestly believes Therrien has lost confidence. Just look at the Bruins game. Petrov -3, Gilmour & Perreauslt -4 & Czerkawksi sits the next game. I think the Audette experiment or whatever you want to call his time on the Koivu line been a miserable failure. Time he went to the press box permanently. Not to mention those games were back to back.... I agree on Audette. If Savard could trade him Czerk would settle in and play.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 18:44:45 GMT -5
Hackett and Czerk for Tyutin? Or Lundmark? Or Hackett, Czerk, Kilger and a 4th for both? It would be too much goodness... Then deal Tyutin or Hainsey for Taylor Pyatt and we are set! ;D But NYR...are they a good destination? Who do they have at RW? Dvorak? who else? Pavel is a LW no?
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 18:45:43 GMT -5
I agree on Audette. If Savard could trade him Czerk would settle in and play. But Audette is untradeable with his big deal and sliced wrist.......
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Post by HFTO on Dec 2, 2002 19:00:39 GMT -5
You think its ugly now!Wait until this road trip is over. HFTO
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 2, 2002 19:06:22 GMT -5
I don't blame Czerk for wanting to be traded; he's had soo much loyalty to so many other teams. He is used to wearing out his welcome as his production declines.
Don't slam the door on your way out! Just go!
I won't miss him.
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 19:13:30 GMT -5
the problem is our 6 top six forwards playing right now, aren't are top 6 forwards. i think we could fix this by moving gilmour to the 3rd or 4th line.
zednik, koivu, audette bulis, perreault, chow juneau, gilmour, dackell petrov, kilger, mckay
IMO, this would have our 6 top forwards playing in our top 2 lines. give chow a chance, a real chance, and if he don't cut it then make a move, or if something tradewise presents it self, go that route.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 2, 2002 19:14:43 GMT -5
I don't blame Czerk for wanting to be traded; he's had soo much loyalty to so many other teams. He is used to wearing out his welcome as his production declines. Don't slam the door on your way out! Just go! I won't miss him. This is unbelievable. On a board where half the people are constantly complaining about the kids not getting chances, and here we have a guy who can score in this league and was happy to be here in Montreal. Flash forward 10 weeks and you're saying "good riddance"? What kind of "asset management" is this where a guy doesn't even get a chance to get going before he gets scratched from the lineup? Czerk is a more valuable player than Audette, who is probably chuckling his little rat-chuckle now....because hes untradeable..
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Post by Douper on Dec 2, 2002 19:21:13 GMT -5
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Post by AH on Dec 2, 2002 19:26:04 GMT -5
Most natural goal scorer on the team, bar none, and he wants out. Way to go Therrien. The writing was on the wall for some time now.
Although I am not so sure it's between Audette and Chow as to who goes. It's gotta be between Petrov and Audette (at least I hope so).
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 19:34:43 GMT -5
Well, there is one factor here we have to keep in my mind if it's Petrov vs Chow(and I think it is with Audette being untradeable).
Oleg Petrov has been Andrei Markov's big brother. Do we want to trade Petrov and leave Markov without a person he can actually communicate with on a regular basis? IMO that risk is too big to take. And yes, if you are wondering, I only talked about this after seeing that piece on RDS on those two a few minutes ago ;D
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Post by legaspesien on Dec 2, 2002 19:57:48 GMT -5
no surprise about this one. AS must remember that. That he give Asham and a 8th to get him he won't get a 1st back
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 2, 2002 20:03:23 GMT -5
I don't blame Czerk for wanting to be traded; he's had soo much loyalty to so many other teams. He is used to wearing out his welcome as his production declines. Don't slam the door on your way out! Just go! I won't miss him. A great majority of Islanders fans felt the way you do about Chow and were pretty darn happy to see him go. You don't get a 30 goals scorer for an unproven 4th liner and a fifth if there isn't something wrong with the player... Therrien isn't the first coach to get tired of the guy nor will he be the last. Personally I am pretty neutral about Chow: he hasn't been too good but as well he really did not get any chances to succeeed because of the way Savard built the team.
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 2, 2002 20:15:34 GMT -5
A great majority of Islanders fans felt the way you do about Chow and were pretty darn happy to see him go. You don't get a 30 goals scorer for an unproven 4th liner and a fifth if there isn't something wrong with the player... Therrien isn't the first coach to get tired of the guy nor will he be the last. Personally I am pretty neutral about Chow: he hasn't been too good but as well he really did not get any chances to succeeed because of the way Savard built the team. While I can agree with that sentiment almost in its entirety (I wasn't overly pleased to have traded even Asham for Czerkawski) I think the question is, do we have worse players getting preferential treatment? I know you are an Audette fan, Doc, and I know the D.A. has seen his time in the press box, but I would take Czerk over that European luxury car any day of the week, and twice on Sundays (get it? Audi? European luxury car?god, I slay me). No surprise Czerkawski wants to be traded. I wouldn't do it, personally, as I would sit Audette in the press box first, and give Mariusz that prime slot on Koivu's wing for a good 5-10 game tryout, and see if he still wants to be traded then. Course, then we tick off Audette, but what are you going to do?
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 20:16:51 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if..
Mariusz is back in the lineup Wednesday on the top line. Increasing that value of his.................
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 2, 2002 20:34:47 GMT -5
While I can agree with that sentiment almost in its entirety (I wasn't overly pleased to have traded even Asham for Czerkawski) I think the question is, do we have worse players getting preferential treatment? I know you are an Audette fan, Doc, and I know the D.A. has seen his time in the press box, but I would take Czerk over that European luxury car any day of the week, and twice on Sundays (get it? Audi? European luxury car?god, I slay me). No surprise Czerkawski wants to be traded. I wouldn't do it, personally, as I would sit Audette in the press box first, and give Mariusz that prime slot on Koivu's wing for a good 5-10 game tryout, and see if he still wants to be traded then. Course, then we tick off Audette, but what are you going to do? I was watching Audette do figure 8's on the ice and I did not mind it at all. Now if he wore a tutu and did a couple of triple salchow with a back flip then I think we got our moneys worth. We are talking about him as a figure skater, aren’t we? I am starting to seriously wonder what or who is running the Hab's zoo. How can ANY so called coach and so called General Manager even consider trading a guy if they did not give him a chance to succeed? You have to give Cz a chance. Does anyone really believe that Audi is going to get better? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t he clear waivers a month ago? So what if Audette gets pissed off if he has to sit. It’s not like he is doing anything on the ice that helps his teammates. What I have seen so far is a guy who does not backcheck worth a Sh*t and who lives of the work of Koivu and Zed. This hockey club is quickly becoming a circus.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 2, 2002 20:38:08 GMT -5
While I can agree with that sentiment almost in its entirety (I wasn't overly pleased to have traded even Asham for Czerkawski) I think the question is, do we have worse players getting preferential treatment? I know you are an Audette fan, Doc, and I know the D.A. has seen his time in the press box, but I would take Czerk over that European luxury car any day of the week, and twice on Sundays (get it? Audi? European luxury car?god, I slay me). No surprise Czerkawski wants to be traded. I wouldn't do it, personally, as I would sit Audette in the press box first, and give Mariusz that prime slot on Koivu's wing for a good 5-10 game tryout, and see if he still wants to be traded then. Course, then we tick off Audette, but what are you going to do? I am an Audette fan though I am really not pleased with his play this year... He seems to lack the spunk and energy I always liked about him. Then again, a lot of HABS player lost their spunk and energy it seems... Chow and Audette can bring pretty much the same kind of production to the table and though some will argue Chow's game is better rounded, Audette never had the kind of low minuses season Chow had a couple of times so I am not ready to buy that opinion myself. Another reality is that all things being equal the DA is a much more marketable asset in Montreal then Czerkowski is. Between the 2, I prefer Audette.
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Post by JacquesInFL on Dec 2, 2002 20:42:34 GMT -5
Sure, if the plan is to let MThead write Audette's name in the lineup and 1st PP unit until Donald's contract expires, then by all means trade Czerkawski...
But I agree with JV and a few others: Audette is wholly and utterly useless and trading Czerk will not change alter this fact. The numbers are frightening (and, Audette has now played as many games on Saku's line as Czerk):
AUDETTE: 20GP, 2G, 4A, 6Pts, -5, 15:43 Min/Gm, 42 Shots, 79:14 PP Min, 0PPG, 3PPA, 0:12 PK Min, 236:59 EV Min, 3 EV Pts, 79:00 EV Min/Point
CZERK: 19GP, 2G, 7A, 9Pts, -1, 12:55 Min/Gm, 29 Shots, 20:57 PP Min, 0PPG, 1PPA, 9:44 PK Min, 214:49 EV Min, 8 EV Pts, 26:51 EV Min/Point
I realize it would unprecedented for the organisation to eat $8M on Audette (or maybe less, I do not know the details of buyout), but sunk costs are sunk costs. For me, watching the money burn on the Bell Centre ice is worst scenario.
And some people are suggesting Savard will not take this step because he loses face or incurs wrath of French media (which is not monolithic as Doc and Paul says). I am not convinced. This organisation traded Roy and then the local boy (Thibault) it acquired for Roy. Captains Carbo and Turgeon were sent packing. In each case life went on, no? So why would Audette ruin Savard?
Sorry to make this post about Audette and Savard's options, but this looks like an unsettling (and unsettled) issue that will impact on ice effectiveness and clubhouse unity.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 2, 2002 20:45:43 GMT -5
I have to agree with Douper on this one. IMO, Chow is a better offensive player than Audette, he has a better shot, is a better skater and is bigger. He isn't the power forward we were all looking for, but he definitely is a step closer than the"Lazy Smurf". To play someone who has definitely lost a few steps since his injury on the first line over a proven goal scorer in his prime, is IMO, plain stupid. I agree that earlier in the year, Chow wasn't putting in a full effort, he sat out a couple as he should have, and so did Audette. Audette came back, had a few flashes and is now back to his bad habits. Chow didn't get the same chance. He had one game on the fourth line, and was benched again. MT has a knack of pissing people off, including me. I am not surprised by his request for a trade, but I am very disappointed. I didn't see him as the answer to our first line problems. However, I don't see Audette on the first line, PERIOD. If anybody should be traded, for a pick if need be, is him. Cheers, TheHabsfan
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 20:46:40 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 2, 2002 20:56:49 GMT -5
I am an Audette fan though I am really not pleased with his play this year... He seems to lack the spunk and energy I always liked about him. Then again, a lot of HABS player lost their spunk and energy it seems... Well, I'm a Gilmour supporter. What can I say? Not too much these days buddy. I think he has lots left to contribute, but if he deserves to be benched he really should be. I don't know, Doc. I have to agree in that I feel Czerkawski still has something left to contribute. He has talent and is a proven 20-odd-goal-man. That European model BC referred to, seems to be snake-bitten. He's missed I don't know how many chances and he just seems to be going through the motions on some nights. A lack of confidence, snake-bitten, a tad guilty for (alledgedly) making the comments he did a few weeks back? I haven't the foggiest as to what it is, but he seems distracted at times. Come to think of it, Doc, it looks as if the whole team is distracted. And to make it worse, they're all distracted albeit in different directions. Something is going to blow. Czerkawski's situation is only the beginning, IMHO. Cheers.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 2, 2002 21:02:10 GMT -5
Good post Jacques.....the number that sticks out to me is the pp minutes. 80! The guy has more pp minutes per game played than any other player. It's appalling. I would be prepared to make a deal where we eat a million this year and a million next year if someone would just take him off our hands.
I can't get over that. the guy has 2 goals despite 80 minutes on the pp and more ice time with Koivu and Zed than any other player. Savard has to find a way to keep Czerk and to rid the roster of Audette. If that involves waiving him then so be it....
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 22:00:31 GMT -5
There's a point we can't forget here...
...for years Habs fans wanted us to acquire Audette...
...Like Doc said Audette is much more marketable.
But if you trade Audette and don't get a good return people are going to wonder ''why did you trade un des notres for nothing'' when it's Chow ''a damn European...who cares what we got...let him whine somewhere else''
Sometime a GM doesn't want to create that kind of distraction...
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