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Post by UberCranky on Nov 24, 2002 16:13:32 GMT -5
Right now, I am prepare to trade.
Theo Audette
For
Aebischer Skoula Tangay
Sign Hackett to a 3 year extension.
Trade Traverse for a 6th
Trade Cherkaswski to New York Rangers for Kloucek.
Trade Gilmour to Toronto for a 6th.
Trade Petrov for a 3rd.
Bring up Ward and Hainsey.
Replace Therrien with Wilson on a one year contract.
In 24 hours we got a lot younger, faster and way meaner. Plus we have a brain behind the bench.
I don't like to "make internet trades" but I am fed up.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 24, 2002 16:30:35 GMT -5
You can get alot more for the Hart Trophy winner than a 1-year wonder winger, above average back-up and #3 dman. Guy is in a slump and you want to just dump him? Makes no sense... why not just do a straight up deal for 4-goal Hart runner-up Iginla? It's just as ridiculous but at least you'll get equal value back.
You'd also need to get Sather pretty drunk for him to even consider Czercawski for Kloucek. Gonna take alot more than an older, more expensive and less effective version of Radek Dvorak to pry with the big guy.
If I recall, Gilmour was a big part of the second half and playoff success of the Habs last year, you gotta give him until the second half before trying to unload him, especially to your biggest rival, who just happens to be in your division and with whom there is a huge emotional attachment, for nothing.
Petrov could get you more than a 3rd rounder. You can get a warm body for him. Traverse, who cares. Ward, ahhh, you should just give up on him like the Habs have. The best he'll ever be is a 10-goal a year 4th liner.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 24, 2002 16:36:37 GMT -5
As for Wilson, he's got a big, airtight contract with TSN, no way you're getting him to leave such an incredible job to coach again.
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Post by PTH on Nov 24, 2002 16:40:46 GMT -5
Gotta agree on dealing Theo - we could get more back, and in fact to deal Theo we have to get one big name back in return otherwise PR wise it just can't be done.
For the rest, a lot of our other players are just spare parts, so what we can get for them depends radically on other team's needs and wants.
Audette, Quintal and Traverse or Dykhuis (flip a coin....) should be taken out and shot. The problem is, you really do have to kill them, otherwise with their garanteed contracts it's almost impossible not to keep on giving them chances. Waiving them would lead to little other than having them ticked off, since no one would be stupid enough to take any of them.
Maybe the solution would be to take AS out and have him shot, a competent replacement for AS finds a replacement and then fires MT, and might actually rebuild rather than re-tool this team...
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 24, 2002 16:44:46 GMT -5
Right now, I am prepare to trade. Theo Audette For Aebischer Skoula Tangay Where is the superstar you said you would want in a Theodore deal ? Thornton? Kovalchuk? Gaborik? none of those 3 guys you propose will be superstars. and why would Colorado want Theo?...I am sure Patty will be thrilled..LOL
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Post by seventeen on Nov 24, 2002 17:51:42 GMT -5
I agree with you in theory, HA, since I've been mulling over what we touched on earlier this year, that Theo brings back much, much more than Hackett. As the other guys are saying, we'd need something more than what you suggested, even though I like both Tanguay and Skoula. Also Theo and Roy would be oil and water. There may be other dancing partners, however, who might be willing to tango. Hackett would suffice for another 2 to 3 years, but we'd need to be very secure about who is coming up to eventually be the replacement. Last year it looked like we had 4 guys. This year, no one stands out. My gut feel is that Puurula, the Finnish kid might be the best of the bunch, because Finland seems to be producing some very good goalies lately (something in the snow), but he's 20 and it's really tough to project if he'll get there at this time. Theo will very likely come out of his funk at some point...it's just harder when you can be comfortable with your mega dollar new contract. Which brings up the better long term solution (here we go again). Totally agree with PTH. More and more, it appears that Savard is the guy who isn't cutting it and as we know, water flows downhill and if we have silly people running the show, the show is going to be silly. In fact, we may need to go higher, to Boivin.
I say the above, not in reference to last night's loss against Carolina, but because of the trend over the last year and a half. After some initial good moves (no rocket scientist ones), there have been a slew of ill-conceived actions. Rather than a thoughtful, long range plan, AS simply seems to react to day to day situations. If he can trade Asham and a low round pick for someone who has more skill right now, he does it. It's a win for AS on the trade front now, but it was done without real thought to the make-up of the team, where a tough guy like Asham may actually be more valuable than a scorer (or former scorer) like Czerk. And just to keep down the lengthy number of pro-Savard posts which are sure to descend, please come armed with legitimate arguments which show he has actually improved the team as a whole. And start after the Linden trade, because that's when I think he started to go downhill. Remember, even though we're over .500, we haven't played a lot of games against the better teams in the league (West division). Tackle these issues 1) Contracts - generally brutal and they're coming back to haunt us. We have a $30 MM team being paid $45MM (or whatever it is). 2) Terrible make-up of the team with little size, average skaters. 3) Three defensemen who would probably clear waivers without waking up any other GM. 4) A 4th, Rivet, who is marginal at best (perhaps because of injuries, but then why is he playing?) 5) A coaching staff most unbiased observers chuckle at, if not openly guffaw. 6) Very curious handling of younger players (related closely to the coaching staff). 7) This fetish with veterans, who cost more and are producing less.
Heck, didn't you enjoy the pre-season if for no other reason that there were young, energetic guys on the ice? Enough...enough. Otherwise I may print things I'll regret later. Some of these are rehashes, but I still haven't heard good answers to them. Please....no messages of faith. This is bottom line time.
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 24, 2002 20:35:08 GMT -5
Trading Theodore would be an awesome move..... for the team that gets him.
We already blew it by trading Roy away..
Let's not make the same mistake with the reigning Hart and Vezina winner.
As for trading players for picks.. ain't going to happen. That's what killed our team before.. lack of NHL players as role players.
This team will trade players when they know our young guns will be ready and when they can get something decent in return.
And don't forget.. we are still one game above ,500.. while 3 years ago, we would have been 7 games under ,500..
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Post by FormerLurker on Nov 24, 2002 20:55:04 GMT -5
I have been reading with great interest for more than a year. And it's obvious that the optimism that existed during the summer is gone. In July, Savard was a saint, Komi was Robinson reborn, we ripped off the Islanders in that trade, Audette and Koivu were healthy...
Well, perhaps our optimism was somewhat misguided. We're not underachieving now, rather we overachieved during last year's playoffs. If we had exited in five or six in the first round last year, would we really be so upset that we're just three points out of fourth place in the conference now?
Last year's playoff runoff created expectations. False expectations. Despite a good performance, we are still an aging, small, expensive team. But because we did so well, many of us overlooked [changing CDs now, oops, girlfriend woke up] our shortcomings. And now they are apparent.
So now we're calling for Therrien's head, and Savard's soon after. I can't argue on the Therrien question, but...
What the ££££ are you getting on Savard's case for? It is a credit to his skill that our expectations are so high. We, __WE__, overestimated our team. Be damn sure that he didn't. He is still taking the slow, measured approach to rebuild this team, but we are impatient. We want that power forward now, and what's taking Savard so long to find him, dammit? Hackett and Dykhuis ought to be enough!
The best metaphor that I've heard about Savard's mandate came from you, JV. He has to change the sheets while the patient's still in the bed. And yet even you are beginning to question him. Savard is decidedly NOT a micromanager. While he may be concerned about a 5-1 or 7-3 loss, he will NOT make wholesale changes to his team because of them. [Velvet Underground's first album, you gotta listen to it] Because this is not yet his team. These are the caretakers, to use another JV term.
Savard is committed to rebuilding the old-fashioned way: he wants to earn it. Yeah, our team is older NOW, but how many young guys has he given away? Dyment? Asham? Who else? Zubrus for Zed? Nobody else.
Look. Have you seen the Habs win a cup more than twice? You have. So stop worrying about how the PK is doing after 20 games this year. Stop worrying that Theo is less than ordinary. Stop worrying that our young guys aren't in the bigs. Stop worrying that we have too any forwards, and that they're all small. STOP MICROMANAGING!
Remind yourselves of these: Hainsey,Komi, Plekanek, Balej, Higgins, (Ward?)
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 24, 2002 21:12:32 GMT -5
I have been reading with great interest for more than a year. And it's obvious that the optimism that existed during the summer is gone. In July, Savard was a saint, Komi was Robinson reborn, we ripped off the Islanders in that trade, Audette and Koivu were healthy... Well, perhaps our optimism was somewhat misguided. We're not underachieving now, rather we overachieved during last year's playoffs. If we had exited in five or six in the first round last year, would we really be so upset that we're just three points out of fourth place in the conference now? Last year's playoff runoff created expectations. False expectations. Despite a good performance, we are still an aging, small, expensive team. But because we did so well, many of us overlooked [changing CDs now, oops, girlfriend woke up] our shortcomings. And now they are apparent. So now we're calling for Therrien's head, and Savard's soon after. I can't argue on the Therrien question, but... What the ££££ are you getting on Savard's case for? It is a credit to his skill that our expectations are so high. We, __WE__, overestimated our team. Be damn sure that he didn't. He is still taking the slow, measured approach to rebuild this team, but we are impatient. We want that power forward now, and what's taking Savard so long to find him, dammit? Hackett and Dykhuis ought to be enough! The best metaphor that I've heard about Savard's mandate came from you, JV. He has to change the sheets while the patient's still in the bed. And yet even you are beginning to question him. Savard is decidedly NOT a micromanager. While he may be concerned about a 5-1 or 7-3 loss, he will NOT make wholesale changes to his team because of them. [Velvet Underground's first album, you gotta listen to it] Because this is not yet his team. These are the caretakers, to use another JV term. Savard is committed to rebuilding the old-fashioned way: he wants to earn it. Yeah, our team is older NOW, but how many young guys has he given away? Dyment? Asham? Who else? Zubrus for Zed? Nobody else. Look. Have you seen the Habs win a cup more than twice? You have. So stop worrying about how the PK is doing after 20 games this year. Stop worrying that Theo is less than ordinary. Stop worrying that our young guys aren't in the bigs. Stop worrying that we have too any forwards, and that they're all small. STOP MICROMANAGING! Remind yourselves of these: Hainsey,Komi, Plekanek, Balej, Higgins, (Ward?) I definitly agree with you. It's unbelievable.. even Savard's case is being questionned.. I mean.. what else next ? If it's the case, then no GM in this world will be able to run our team if we aren't positive and a little fair. Savard is the right man for the job.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 24, 2002 21:28:31 GMT -5
Well, perhaps our optimism was somewhat misguided. We're not underachieving now, rather we overachieved during last year's playoffs. If we had exited in five or six in the first round last year, would we really be so upset that we're just three points out of fourth place in the conference now? Last year's playoff runoff created expectations. False expectations. Despite a good performance, we are still an aging, small, expensive team. So now we're calling for Therrien's head, and Savard's soon after. I can't argue on the Therrien question, but... What the ££££ are you getting on Savard's case for? It is a credit to his skill that our expectations are so high. We, __WE__, overestimated our team. Be damn sure that he didn't. He is still taking the slow, measured approach to rebuild this team, but we are impatient. We want that power forward now, and what's taking Savard so long to find him, dammit? Hackett and Dykhuis ought to be enough! Savard is committed to rebuilding the old-fashioned way: he wants to earn it. Yeah, our team is older NOW, but how many young guys has he given away? Dyment? Asham? Who else? Zubrus for Zed? Nobody else. Stop worrying that we have too any forwards, and that they're all small. STOP MICROMANAGING! Remind yourselves of these: Hainsey,Komi, Plekanek, Balej, Higgins, (Ward?) So what you're saying is we have a small, aging team that isn't very good but the problem is that we expect them to be much better. Let's see, Savard took over an inexpensive, younger team that wasn't very good and had just started to draft some good players and now we have an expensive, older team that isn't very good and is continuing to draft good prospects. Savards team squeaks into the playoffs, Houle's team squeaks out of it. Savards team had a Hart trophy winner in goal, Houles team didn't. Savards team had 250 man games injury, Houles team had 500+. We had Houle and we now have Savard. A bit simplistic, but the comparison works, I think.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 24, 2002 21:32:58 GMT -5
It's the result of 6-7 blowout losses since the start of the year...
...people don't mind losing close 1 goal games where the team fought hard...they just don't accept seing their team getting blown out once a week..
Everyone is freaking out. A couple of wins, everyone is happy again..
it's called being a Habs fan....
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 24, 2002 21:40:11 GMT -5
It's the result of 6-7 blowout losses since the start of the year... ...people don't mind losing close 1 goal games where the team fought hard...they just don't accept seing their team getting blown out once a week.. Everyone is freaking out. A couple of wins, everyone is happy again.. it's called being a Habs fan.... Yeah, but when they start to rip off Savard, this is where I disagree. You can't show disrespect to a guy who has definitly a plan and will work on it no matter who says what. This team was so terrible 2 years ago.. it was frightening to watch. Now that our team plays above ,500 on a regular basis.. which is a huge improvement in short period of time.. Savard should for some people, be fired. I mean, come on now ! what else ? Let the guy do his tricks.. it will pay off. This guy is too smart and good to not have success with our team. Last year, Audette was playing great and he was a god for us.. this year, he struggles and he's crap.. Yeah you are right, it's definitly called being a Habs fan
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 24, 2002 21:42:15 GMT -5
WE WERE FREAKIN SPOILED LAST YEAR We where 10 seconds away from being a win away from the Eastern finals That just boggles the mind...we had too much success too fast...expectations skyrocketed... I still think we will make the playoffs this year though...and I am definitely not on the fire Savard bandwagon yet...but I'd like to see the team get more bang for their buck, get bigger and tougher and add some youth to the lineup(by trade or promotions from Hamilton)
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 24, 2002 21:55:22 GMT -5
and I must add...seeing guys like Quintal-Traverse-Dykhuis on our blueline while Hainsey is in the minors definitely makes people cranky...
We keep hearing how good our kids are...and we want to see them up here so they can show us how good they are because we know eventually they'll be better than half our d-man and they will be helping us...
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 24, 2002 22:09:01 GMT -5
Perhaps an explanation is in order here.
I love the Hab's as an entity. From a very, very young age they filled a portion of my life. They were not my world but they were certainly larger then life. Richard was not just a man but a symbol of what a man could achieve with determination. He was neither the biggest nor the fastest. He possessed no superhuman power and he was known to have a drink or seven. Yet trough shear will he led his men to greater glory. Yes my friend, glory.
A seven year old boy had no other dream then to play for his beloved Hab’s. None. When I got my first Richard sweaters, the arms were hanging down and maybe two HA’s would fit in it but that didn’t stop me from falling to sleep in it and dreaming. The dream? The dream of playing right wing, right there, besides Jean Beliveau. I have scored more goals in my dreams then you could possibly imagine. Were it not for the immigrant family curse that pounded in me over and over that only school was important, then today you would know me by my first and second name.
Am I along in this dream, in this hockey religion? Why don’t you ask BadCompany? Ask Spiro. Ask Seventeen. Ask anyone who frets and worries about this team and you will hear the same story. The dreams, the addiction, the zealousness is in all of us. For us, there is no other and will never be any other. Period.
Why am I harsh and quick to criticize our management? Because they head my religion and I don’t think they are doing a good job. Andre Savard is not the Hab’s. Micheal Therrien is not the Hab’s. The are nothing but the temporary caretakers who have no right to screw up my Hab’s. Our Hab’s. They have to, they MUST lead this team to the right path and glory otherwise they are nothing but con artist who should not handle my mighty Hab’s. If it is not a criminal act to mishandle my team then it should be. I don’t think that flogging and incarceration in a dark pit are too much a price to pay for incompetence. Trust me, if I was Emperor, then Houle and Corey would be nothing more then eunuch servants, one digging a pit and the other one refilling it. Alas, this Democracy thing has it’s limitations.
Forty odd years later, I still dream the dream but now it is the never ending question of “what is wrong”. I have learned that some of the man who ran my religion are neither competent nor special. So here I am, criticizing and fretting about their ability to do the right things. It’s my right , my catharsis, it is my duty as a zealot to point out their wayward ways and seek solutions. It is a birth right of all zealots of this mystical but not mysterious religion.
This forum serves as a gathering place for all. Some of us are into this religion for 40 or 50 year and some of us are recent convert, never the less, we are all gathered to share our views and rejoice in victory and grieve in defeat.
Today we grieve. Tomorrow must be a better day.
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Post by HFTO on Nov 24, 2002 22:33:38 GMT -5
I'm as frustrated as HA and to some extent think that a shake up of the core maybe needed,but I don't think it will transform us into a contender. Would I trade Theo not sure I'd want to get burned trading a goalie again! This team needs alot of things but I'd start with the coach and see what a proven guy could do with these cast offs in the short term. The success last year was unexpected and has raised our expectations of a team that is pretty marginal. I think its important the Habs keep stock piling talent through the draft until then we will not be dealing from a position of strength. Will a new coach get us in the playoffs for sure? No guarantee but it would be nice to see somebody with some vision. HFTO
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Post by Viper on Nov 24, 2002 22:34:12 GMT -5
HA My heart is racing after reading this. THe dream began when i first laced em up as a young boy a flowing mane of hair who smoked 2 packs a day (at least that's what i heard ) named Guy Damien Lafleur played the wing and My existence revolved around wether or not he had scored the night before. That continued and still does to this day. Our critisism's are warranted our questioning of our leader's is nesacary and our undying devotion to Les Gloriuex is timeless.
AS has many a question mark in the last 12 months or so and If things are not done to correct the abomination of what was once the most feared and respected franchise in any sport on the face of this earth then it's time to go back a few century.
OFF WITH HIS HEAD !!!!
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Post by montreal on Nov 24, 2002 23:10:48 GMT -5
Perhaps an explanation is in order here. I love the Hab's as an entity. From a very, very young age they filled a portion of my life. They were not my world but they were certainly larger then life. Richard was not just a man but a symbol of what a man could achieve with determination. He was neither the biggest nor the fastest. He possessed no superhuman power and he was known to have a drink or seven. Yet trough shear will he led his men to greater glory. Yes my friend, glory. A seven year old boy had no other dream then to play for his beloved Hab’s. None. When I got my first Richard sweaters, the arms were hanging down and maybe two HA’s would fit in it but that didn’t stop me from falling to sleep in it and dreaming. The dream? The dream of playing right wing, right there, besides Jean Beliveau. I have scored more goals in my dreams then you could possibly imagine. Were it not for the immigrant family curse that pounded in me over and over that only school was important, then today you would know me by my first and second name. Am I along in this dream, in this hockey religion? Why don’t you ask BadCompany? Ask Spiro. Ask Seventeen. Ask anyone who frets and worries about this team and you will hear the same story. The dreams, the addiction, the zealousness is in all of us. For us, there is no other and will never be any other. Period. Why am I harsh and quick to criticize our management? Because they head my religion and I don’t think they are doing a good job. Andre Savard is not the Hab’s. Micheal Therrien is not the Hab’s. The are nothing but the temporary caretakers who have no right to screw up my Hab’s. Our Hab’s. They have to, they MUST lead this team to the right path and glory otherwise they are nothing but con artist who should not handle my mighty Hab’s. If it is not a criminal act to mishandle my team then it should be. I don’t think that flogging and incarceration in a dark pit are too much a price to pay for incompetence. Trust me, if I was Emperor, then Houle and Corey would be nothing more then eunuch servants, one digging a pit and the other one refilling it. Alas, this Democracy thing has it’s limitations. Forty odd years later, I still dream the dream but now it is the never ending question of “what is wrong”. I have learned that some of the man who ran my religion are neither competent nor special. So here I am, criticizing and fretting about their ability to do the right things. It’s my right , my catharsis, it is my duty as a zealot to point out their wayward ways and seek solutions. It is a birth right of all zealots of this mystical but not mysterious religion. This forum serves as a gathering place for all. Some of us are into this religion for 40 or 50 year and some of us are recent convert, never the less, we are all gathered to share our views and rejoice in victory and grieve in defeat. Today we grieve. Tomorrow must be a better day. Well said. I'm 27 so I missed the glory years (by '79 I was 4 still messing my drawers). But I understand what you are saying.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 24, 2002 23:28:51 GMT -5
Well said. I'm 27 so I missed the glory years (by '79 I was 4 still messing my drawers). But I understand what you are saying. 12 cups Montreal. 12 cups.Can you see the reason for my incessant criticisms? Plus 1000 live games. 5,000 on tv plus countless, ahem, pond and beer games. Plus a serious attempt as a collage player in a different sport and you get the idea how fanatical (with a wee bit of knowledge) one can be.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 25, 2002 0:10:31 GMT -5
AS has many a question mark in the last 12 months or so and If things are not done to correct the abomination of what was once the most feared and respected franchise in any sport on the face of this earth then it's time to go back a few century. It's great to be critical, necessary even, but let's not forget that neither Savard nor Therrien are responsible for the franchise's descent from greatness. They inherited this mess and it will take a while to right the ship. Slowly but surely they've got the sucker moving in the right direction, but this ain't no love boat, it's a big oil rig and it's going to take some time to get her pointed exactly where you want her to go. This isn't 1961 either, where you've got your exclusive contracts and within a year or two can plug in a bunch of talented Quebecers and Eastern Canadians and be back on top; it's alot harder and takes alot longer to build a contender in professional sports nowadays.
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Post by montreal on Nov 25, 2002 0:18:24 GMT -5
12 cups Montreal. 12 cups.Can you see the reason for my incessant criticisms? Plus 1000 live games. 5,000 on tv plus countless, ahem, pond and beer games. Plus a serious attempt as a collage player in a different sport and you get the idea how fanatical (with a wee bit of knowledge) one can be. Yea I understand what you are saying. But I just have a different opinion. I like Savard, a lot, and am glad that we don't have to watch the team with the Campbell's, Lind's, Bashkirov's (never even scored 1 goal in the NHL, he should have stuck with roller hockey league he was in), Llflame's, Darby's, Poulin's etc... We have our bad games against the better teams (except the Sabers), but I would rather have this team then the team that was hear 2-3 short years ago. Somehow we always found a way to get completely embarassed by the leafs then, way too many 6-1 losses to the leafs those years (they hurt the worst, imo). This year, its like a roller coaster ride or the American stock market (I have a degree in finance, so I find the example fitting) we are up one day and way way down the next. We win 3 in a row, things look good, then we lose 2 in row and get shelled, and it's hang the coach/gm. If we were at the bottom of the league and weren't above .500, I could understand, but we are hanging in there, although I suspect it will get a lot worse over the next few weeks, before it gets better.
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Post by JFM on Nov 25, 2002 0:32:34 GMT -5
I hate to say this, but we're all guilty of living in the past. I'm 36 and I lived through the glory years. The past 10 years or so have been hard to swallow. But the reality is that times have changed. The game has changed, the playing field has changed. There are now 30 teams in the league. Every team has competent GMs. And we are no longer a large market team. It's now much harder to win the Cup just because ther are more teams and the talent is spread very thinly. The days of Sam Pollack robbing other teams blind are long gone due to the fact that there are no longer any bozos running teams. And revenues made in Canadian dollars, payments in large part in U.S. is another great disadvantage.
Now does this mean I accept the current state of the Team? Hell no!!!! But the days of being and expecting to be a perrenial contender by devine right and that la Sainte Flanelle will automatically mean the world in this day and age of the selfish egotistical athelete are loooooong gone. It took me a while to come to this way of thinking. It has thankfully saved my sanity (at least temporarily) and countless pieces of audio-visual equipment.
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Post by Vichab on Nov 25, 2002 1:57:47 GMT -5
AS anyone who knows me, in particular my wife can attest, I take a second seat to no one in my devotion to the Habs. Some people worship on Sunday mornings while I prefer my spiritual experiences on Saturday night and have done it for over 30 years now. Baptized on Le Gros Bill and the Roadrunner on the wing. When one is indoctrinated under those conditions it is hard to accept anything less especially with what came shortly on the heals of the #4's departure; the greatest dynasty ever assembled in any sport at any time. And while I agree in the right to some constructive criticism I also believe one must possess a certain amount of faith. The Habs legacy was built on skill, hard work, and faith.
The present version of OUR TEAM is not the best nor is it the worst but is far better then those dark ages of 2 years ago when our faith and devotion was truly tested. AS has achieved the first step of our objective and he has done it in pretty quick order, perhaps too quick as some have mentioned. Give him a little slack to progress to the next level he has earned at least that. I don't believe we are that far off from being a top contender, perhaps a few trades and a few prospects blossoming. We now have the depth to make a few trades and we all agree that we have some legitimate prospects in the fold. Now is not the time to panic. I suspect that this may get worse before it gets better and I think we all agree some immediate moves are obvious: lose MT and a few smurfs up front and a few pilons on d. AS's attachment to MT is perplexing and at time troubling as MT's incompetence appears so obvious. But discussing trading Theo is simply irrational. He is our future and the best thing that has happened to the Habs in many years. Yes he's had a bad couple of months but let's keep the faith. One thing is clear about this team the goaltending is the least of our problems. Let's not play with that part that is often the hardest piece of the puzzle to obtain. Just ask booby Clark.
We know where our problems are and I believe AS does as well. He will rectify things. He has a good mind. Think of the garbage he has got rid of: Rosie, Zubrus (1st goal last night), Savage, Darby, Poulin, Campbell... I have faith that he is waiting for the right deal. Fortunately he has not been pressed as the team has played above 500 so far. If things get worse as they probably will this next month he will make a move. But AS is the least of our problems. In the short time he has been at the helm he has delivered.
Outsiders who can't understand and will never be able to understand the psyche and neurosies of a Habs fan, as we live our tormented lives with such high expectations and demands must shake their heads in bewilderment over the fuss of an above 500 team. I understand the concern and the pain of some of these losses and I too look forward to more pleasant slumbers filled with thoughts of yet another parade but our course is clear and steady with AS at the helm. Have a little faith - have a little faith.
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Post by Rhiessan on Nov 25, 2002 2:53:37 GMT -5
AMEN!
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 25, 2002 3:24:39 GMT -5
Outsiders who can't understand and will never be able to understand the psyche and neurosies of a Habs fan, as we live our tormented lives with such high expectations and demands must shake their heads in bewilderment over the fuss of an above 500 team. Actually, it's quite simple to understand - it's called being spoiled.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 25, 2002 3:56:26 GMT -5
Because experience has taught me that a comment like that, particularly from an 'outsider' and a newcomer is generally not found to be well-received by most members of a board I will elaborate on what I meant so as to prevent any misinterpretations.
No one here can honestly deny that Habs fans have been spoiled by decades upon decades of not only winning hockey, but of sheer dominance of the league. Blackhawks, Bruins and Rangers, heck pretty much every team in the league's fans can attest to that. Now the NHL landscape is completely different, no longer do the Habs have any advantages or apparent 'rights to the throne' of NHL prominence. Everyone has been reduced to a roughly equal footing and so Habs fans who have grown up on a steady diet of winning, winning, and more winning will naturally react differently to the all too real prospect of facing numerous losing seasons and long spells between Stanley Cups.
This is all I'm trying to say by spoiled; I'm not equating Habs fans with spoiled brats or anything, so don't anyone go thinking that's what I meant. Well, actually, you can think that if you want, so long as you're willing to be wrong.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 25, 2002 8:39:01 GMT -5
and we were spoiled...last year as well.
I guarantee you if the Habs lost to the Bruins in the first round, people would be alot more patient. But beating them and their loaded offence, winning 2 games and being 10 seconds away from winning a 3rd against the Canes just made people expect too much, too quickly.
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 25, 2002 9:56:30 GMT -5
Perhaps an explanation is in order here. I love the Hab's as an entity. From a very, very young age they filled a portion of my life. They were not my world but they were certainly larger then life. Richard was not just a man but a symbol of what a man could achieve with determination. He was neither the biggest nor the fastest. He possessed no superhuman power and he was known to have a drink or seven. Yet trough shear will he led his men to greater glory. Yes my friend, glory. A seven year old boy had no other dream then to play for his beloved Hab’s. None. When I got my first Richard sweaters, the arms were hanging down and maybe two HA’s would fit in it but that didn’t stop me from falling to sleep in it and dreaming. The dream? The dream of playing right wing, right there, besides Jean Beliveau. I have scored more goals in my dreams then you could possibly imagine. Were it not for the immigrant family curse that pounded in me over and over that only school was important, then today you would know me by my first and second name. Am I along in this dream, in this hockey religion? Why don’t you ask BadCompany? Ask Spiro. Ask Seventeen. Ask anyone who frets and worries about this team and you will hear the same story. The dreams, the addiction, the zealousness is in all of us. For us, there is no other and will never be any other. Period. Why am I harsh and quick to criticize our management? Because they head my religion and I don’t think they are doing a good job. Andre Savard is not the Hab’s. Micheal Therrien is not the Hab’s. The are nothing but the temporary caretakers who have no right to screw up my Hab’s. Our Hab’s. They have to, they MUST lead this team to the right path and glory otherwise they are nothing but con artist who should not handle my mighty Hab’s. If it is not a criminal act to mishandle my team then it should be. I don’t think that flogging and incarceration in a dark pit are too much a price to pay for incompetence. Trust me, if I was Emperor, then Houle and Corey would be nothing more then eunuch servants, one digging a pit and the other one refilling it. Alas, this Democracy thing has it’s limitations. Forty odd years later, I still dream the dream but now it is the never ending question of “what is wrong”. I have learned that some of the man who ran my religion are neither competent nor special. So here I am, criticizing and fretting about their ability to do the right things. It’s my right , my catharsis, it is my duty as a zealot to point out their wayward ways and seek solutions. It is a birth right of all zealots of this mystical but not mysterious religion. This forum serves as a gathering place for all. Some of us are into this religion for 40 or 50 year and some of us are recent convert, never the less, we are all gathered to share our views and rejoice in victory and grieve in defeat. Today we grieve. Tomorrow must be a better day. What's wrong with you HA now ? You don't trust Savard anymore ? I can understand for Therrien, but Savard ?? Can we let him do his thing a little more instead of trying to rip him off just because he couldn't get a Thornton, Morris or what ever ? Savard does a great job.. and the better is to come (draft.. draft.. draft). Some people don't seem to realize how tough it is to bring a team, who was heading down the toilets, back to respectability and even more... Let's have confidence towards André.. it'll pay off..
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 25, 2002 12:09:22 GMT -5
don't worry...GG does have faith in him so AS is safe.. As for HA...I wonder what he is doing with those millions of St-Savard dolls he was selling
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 26, 2002 14:51:42 GMT -5
Right now, I am prepare to trade. Theo Audette For Aebischer Skoula Tangay Sign Hackett to a 3 year extension. Trade Traverse for a 6th Trade Cherkaswski to New York Rangers for Kloucek. Trade Gilmour to Toronto for a 6th. Trade Petrov for a 3rd. Bring up Ward and Hainsey. Replace Therrien with Wilson on a one year contract. In 24 hours we got a lot younger, faster and way meaner. Plus we have a brain behind the bench. I don't like to "make internet trades" but I am fed up. Trade the Keg for the Staple Center, trade Molson's Ex for Moosehead, trade the scouts for The Psychic Hot Line, trade Savard for future considerations, trade Hydro Quebec for Enron, trade...............................(fill in the blanks)
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