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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 20, 2002 17:14:38 GMT -5
Before considering the mayhem in the skies, we should take a look at what our favorite ex-Habs doing around the league. Well, let's see:
Brian "call me desire" Savage is now a staggering -8 in Phoenix. He's doing jack.
Martin "I just want to help the team" Rucinsky, after scoring 3 goals in 3 games following his arrival in St. Louis, is now minus 1, with 4 points in total, 2 of them pp goals, including the freebie that Theodore gave up. Marty is the only guy with a negative +/- number who's played more than 3 games for the notes. He's doing jack.
Danius "I'm just a kid" Zubrus? Three assists in 17 games. He's doing jack, too.
On the homefront? Things have quieted down after the Habs seized 4 points from the Devils and Pens following the Meadowlands duck shoot last week. But that's only temporary.
Michel Therrien continues to struggle like an overwhelmed air traffic controller at JFK international on thanksgiving. He's got an Air Poland flight on the tarmac waiting for clearance, and too many overseas flights in his air space at one time. He's got some ageing, heavy cargo planes lumbering through the skies without enough fuel (Air Dougie and Air Mckay) but hasn't been able to find time to get them down, despite the obvious hazard they pose. Meanwhile, Air Portuguese Chicken Wing is cleared for takeoff despite having well-documented structural flaws in its airframe which make it unsuited for heavy weather. And a baggage-handlers strike at the airport has compounded matters, because the baggage just sits there, clogging up the tarmac. Too many planes, and not enough runways.
The whole situation is a mess. First Audette, then Czerkawski, then Kilger, then Petrov, and now Czerkawski again are scratched and reference is made to their work ethic in each case. Yet in each case the problems are more akin to those that Robidas experienced when playing out of position: guys are on the wrong wing, guys aren't given pp time, guys don't have regular linemates or sufficient chance to click. Or they do click, but then go pointless in a game, and are promptly benched because there's someone else who's spent enough time in the doghouse and who somehow, by watching from the pressbox, has earned his way back onto the top line and multiple minutes of pp time.
Is it any wonder that Czerkawski, who'd started to click on Koivu's right wing, went cold when Audette came back and started to rack up 5 minutes a night on the powerplay? While Czerk watched from the bench? And despite going pointless for three games in a row, Audette nonetheles earns his way onto the top line? Now Audette is back. Big surprise there. Does anyone seriously doubt that Bulis, or Czerk, or any number of others wouldn't find their way onto the scoresheet playing with the Finnish sparkplug and the hardworking Zednick? So Petrov, who has poured sweat on every shift, gets to have his work ethic publicly questioned and to sit in the pressbox?
It's a bit hard to take from afar, but if I were Kilger, Petrov or Czerkawski I'd really be wondering whether there wasn't some kind of insane double-standard at work here.
I can tell you what will happen in the next week or so: Audette will go cold again after 3 or 4 games, and he'll sit. Czerk will take his place. But then he'll have a bad night or take a penalty and he'll sit. Petrov will be back in and it'll be clear to him that no matter who he plays with, or how little pp time he sees, if he doesn't "produce" he'll be back in the pressbox. Ribeiro will dress for two games and then sit, because it'll be time to get someone else back into the lineup (maybe Kilger, who can expect to be scratched again soon). Meanwhile, Gilmour and Mckay will continue to dress, and to suck, night after night.
It's this kind of double standard that really creates havoc in the locker room, as much as its obvious byproducts (Bulis to the 4th, Kilger scratched, Czerkawski scratched for Audette, Petrov scratched, etc).....I know it's partly (largely) Savard's fault, but Therrien is doing a dreadful job of handling it. There's no cohesion on this team because there's so little consistency. And there's no consistency because the decisions are made for reasons unconnected (no matter what they say) to actual effort.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 20, 2002 17:25:15 GMT -5
Great post.
The situation needs to be fixed ASAP.
and yes the former Habs are sucking....
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 20, 2002 17:34:09 GMT -5
If there is a nightmare bigger then MThead's coaching it is the double standard that he is applying to Gilmour, McKay and Q-ball. Why are they playing when they are not producing or making mistakes? Why is Gilmour even in our line up?
One can "justify" sitting someone down because they are not producing but to do it in this fashion is blatant favoritism that will make "Rosies" out of the ones sitting.
The same problem that we talked about from the beginning of summer is still here and there is no end in sight. Meanwhile, Hossa, Hainsey and Garon are rotting in exile.
Time to group a few, eat some salaries and ship them to needy clubs for a real player. Like, uhh, BUFFALO.
I think that Savard should give himself a tongue lashing pretty soon.
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Post by Viper on Nov 20, 2002 17:35:37 GMT -5
If i've said this once i've said it a thousand times
FIRE THERRIEN !!!!!!
bring a guy in who rewards effort and consistency instead of the guy we have now who's rewarding mediocrity and inconsistency. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH this 747 is coming in on emergency landing but it seems the landing gear is busted. Everyone put your head betwwen your legs and pray for the best.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 20, 2002 17:44:35 GMT -5
and bring in a guy who isn't scared of his veterans!
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 20, 2002 17:48:55 GMT -5
Yup, Addict, I agree. I'm fixin' to turn on Savard if this doesn't get sorted out by christmas. He'll get a christmas gift from me but it might not be his favorite toy. It'll be the pig-iron over the back of his head. I'm sick of it. It's really, plainly, obviously hurting the team, and no matter how much it may wound his pride to do a u-turn, he's got to do it. He's got to bite some contract or do whatever else it takes to clean up this roster. I hate Therrien, but this is not fair to him at all. Like I say, he's not doing a great job of handling it but I'm not so sure Scotty Bowman wouldn't find this more than he could deal with either.
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 20, 2002 17:55:57 GMT -5
it's very apparent that there is too many dead weight forwards, and it's holding our prospects, and others back. the habs have too many players, my suggestion would be to trade about 5 of them for 2 good players. If Buffalo's looking to deal, then deal with them (better to deal out of the conference though). trade kilger, petrov, mckay, quintal and dykhuis for a good d man, and a quality power forward. personally i don't want to see petrov moved, but it doesn't look like he's going to get his fair share of icetime this season with audette and chow in the line up who are similar players to him, but have larger contracts, and have proven themselves more in the past with other teams. even if the trade leaves the other team with a better looking deal, it will give us the freedom to play players like ribeiro, hossa, ward, and hainsey. i don't think trading gilmour is a great idea, his contract is relatively low, and he's proven he can produce late in the season, and the playoffs, but until then he should be a strictly 4th line center, unless he shows he can produce. traverse will no longer be a problem in the new year, souray will be back, thank god.
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Post by Viper on Nov 20, 2002 17:57:41 GMT -5
JV Bowman would at least handle things with decency i think this obvious lack of consistency is something that would not happen on Scotty's team.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 20, 2002 18:05:41 GMT -5
If i've said this once i've said it a thousand times FIRE THERRIEN !!!!!!bring a guy in who rewards effort and consistency instead of the guy we have now who's rewarding mediocrity and inconsistency. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH this 747 is coming in on emergency landing but it seems the landing gear is busted. Everyone put your head betwwen your legs and pray for the best. Well, that's not going to address the fundamental problem, which is the roster itself. Think of it this way, if you only have Czerk or Audette, but not both, then whoever stays gets to play without this cloud hanging over his head. Lots of people say competition is the best thing, but this isn't really competition. The fact is they're just not going to sit a guy like Audette in the pressbox for 12 or 15 games in a row. And when he comes back, after two games or four, it's useless for him to play on the 4th line, as they've discovered. So all a guy like Czerk needs to do is have one bad night, and that's the excuse they need to get Audette in the lineup. And the same "thinking" will be applied when Czerk's sat out a couple of games. It's a merry go round of false blame: first Audette, then Kilger, next is Petrov, then Czerkawski. None of these guys has sucked nearly as badly as Doug Gilmour, except perhaps Audette, and in the normal course they'd just play their way through the slump, maybe being scratched for one game or something as a wake-up call but otherwise in the same spot and with the same line combintion. But as it is, guys are being scratched as though they're doing things wrong when in fact they're just not in any kind of groove, which is not surprising. The roster is so flexible it has no strength at all. It's just a puree, like puppy puke. You can't function like this. And by the way, I bet a lot of coaches would look at this roster, as it is now, and say "thanks but no thanks". Two years from now, if Theo's the real deal and Koivu's healthy, and Komisarek and Hainsey are coming along, and we've got a nice core of young forwards like Zed, Bulis, Hossa, Kilger and a few others, the quality coaches will be intrigued, but right now it's more like taking over the role of papa in a dysfunctional family comprised of mutants and half-wits, all clamouring for more meatloaf, if you know what I mean....
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 20, 2002 18:08:47 GMT -5
I'm fixin' to turn on Savard if this doesn't get sorted out by christmas. Like I say, he's not doing a great job of handling it but I'm not so sure Scotty Bowman wouldn't find this more than he could deal with either. That will make two of his most ardent supporters turn on him. What is really, really bothering me is that I thought that this guy was really smarter then he has proven out to be. The first several moves where so obvious and done well that I thought that he could keep building and building. Yet he seems to have stalled. Yes, I know that building a serious contender and the associated difficulty has increased exponentially but, somehow, I thought he WAS capable of bending the laws of contender building. But alas, the Saint is human. I am not trying to start another Savard thread but I'm just getting it off my chest. . Like I say, he's not doing a great job of handling it but I'm not so sure Scotty Bowman wouldn't find this more than he could deal with either. The difference is that NO ONE in the known universe would question his judgment. In fact, Bowman has made some stupid blunders but people tend to wash over them. He walked on water as far as the media is concerned.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 20, 2002 18:11:23 GMT -5
it's very apparent that there is too many dead weight forwards, and it's holding our prospects, and others back. the habs have too many players, my suggestion would be to trade about 5 of them for 2 good players. If Buffalo's looking to deal, then deal with them (better to deal out of the conference though). trade kilger, petrov, mckay, quintal and dykhuis for a good d man, and a quality power forward. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. In this respect, PTH (and others) are right: you can't package older, slower players with big contracts and get back a young guy with upside who earns 700k. Nobody's going to do AS that kind of favor. He'll be lucky if he can move one of Audette, Quintal, Petrov and Dykhuis this year. The easiest would be Petrov, for obvious reasons (no long term committment, reasonable salary, good attitude). The others are a huge challenge. But Savard has to make a start down this road. He just has to.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 20, 2002 18:18:51 GMT -5
JV Bowman would at least handle things with decency i think this obvious lack of consistency is something that would not happen on Scotty's team. Well, I think that Bowman wouldn't have permitted this to happen. Even if he were coach to Savard's GM, he'd have resisted some of these moves and vetoed others outright. He just wouldn't have put up with it. He'd say look "between Juneau, Dackell, Bulis and Kilger, I can create a good third checking line". Then he'd say "Mckay's only going to play 7 minutes a night, so it's not worth it. Save your money Andre". Then he'd have said "look, Czerk can help, but you can't stick me with Audette and Czerk and Perreault and Gilmour and Koivu and Petrov. That's not going to cut it Andy." "If you can move Audette now, okay, but I don't want both." Something like that. I think that's the short answer. It just wouldn't have happened.
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 20, 2002 18:20:23 GMT -5
and as to players who we've traded away... as much as i HATE to admit it, Berezin's got 11 points this season, but getting rid of him was well worth the 7th rounder, man i hated that guy. Also Linden only has 4 points this season, and is -4 for a team that has 22 points in 18 games. how good does that trade look now? ;D
...................gp -g -a pts +/- zubrus/linden 35 02 04 06 -6 bulis/zednik.. 34 11 09 20 +5
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 20, 2002 18:24:50 GMT -5
and the 1st we got for a 2nd rounder!
I love that deal...
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Post by JacquesInFL on Nov 20, 2002 18:25:08 GMT -5
Great post, JV.
As the season passes quarter turn, to have no set criteria for what it takes to lose or gain icetime is foolish for a club unlikely to pull away from competitors presently on outside. As JV says, our depth proves problematic and untenable. Is Savard not moving because he is paralised by the spectre of injuries or does he have redundant assets with no virtually no trade value or does he think time is on our side? For me, depth for deal with injuries has to come from one of three places:
1) Younger players with flexibility to their game move up to fill gaps. For Habs, this is Bulis and Kilger -- guys that have the jump to do a job on various lines.
2) Veterans who have accepted lesser role on 4th line (Verbeek did this in Detroit and Muller in Dallas) but bring experience to shoulder bigger minutes if pinch arises. Sadly, Gilmour cannot accept a lesser role or even sit every fifth game. As for McKay, he seems more somewhat willing to accept 4th line duty if that helps club.
3) Top prospects are the third option when you lose key player. Frolov and Spezza have moved up this season and provided "depth".
I like Savard, but let's not keep keep shuffling an incoherent deck of cards. Having redundant assets (Perreault, Gilmour and Ribeiro; Audette, Czerkawski and Petrov) who have fairly one-dimensional games and will not accept pinch duty does not really qualify as practical depth. It's been time to trade a RW for the entire month of November...and with Ribeiro returning the situation at centre is nearly as obvious...
If the objective is for Audette or Czerkawski to rack up big points and increase market value, then I think Savard is making miscalculation. By having a revolving door at right wing and icing a horribly unbalanced 2nd line night after night, it's possible we lose more points than Habs can afford. Is it worth it to play this revolving chair so we can get a 3rd or 4th rounder (instead of 7th rounder or nothing) for one of these second-tier snipers instead of getting as many points as we can in the bank for playoffs? For me, icing the best lineup and making the playoffs are far more vital than "saving face" by acquiring 4th or flawed prospect instead of a 7th. Give me the 7th and let's eliminate MT's excuses for not insisting on a good two-way system.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 20, 2002 18:28:59 GMT -5
does anyone else think AS is, as Jacques mentionned, so bloody scared of injuries it affects his thinking?
I mean guys who were fragile(Savage, Linden, Malakhov,etc) are GONE. They have been replaced with players who are not as injury prone. Time to stop being so scared,AS...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 20, 2002 18:32:10 GMT -5
That will make two of his most ardent supporters turn on him. What is really, really bothering me is that I thought that this guy was really smarter then he has proven out to be. The first several moves where so obvious and done well that I thought that he could keep building and building. Yet he seems to have stalled. Yes, I know that building a serious contender and the associated difficulty has increased exponentially but, somehow, I thought he WAS capable of bending the laws of contender building. But alas, the Saint is human. Well, I think he was over-cautious on the Koivu thing. In retrospect, it would've been better not to exercise the option on Gilmour. It was tempting fate to think that Doug would just pick up where he left off last year. The guy has 6 points in 18 games. He's hardly involved at all and he doesn't seem to have any jump or desire. Plus, with his seniority and all, he's comanding more ice time than he deserves. Second, I don't know why he thought Mckay would play anywhere but on the 4th line. In the new-fangled NHL, Mckay just doesn't fit on an offensive line at all. He's an overpaid Turner Stevenson at this point. Paying a guy 2.2 million to play 6 minutes a night is lunacy, pure and simple. Third, with Czerk, I think he underestimated the roster problems and/or the difficulty he'd have moving Audette. In either case, a serious error in judgement, imo. Fourth, the Hackett thing is not his fault. The market sucks and it turned out that we need him. He gets a free pass on this one. I still have faith in Savard over the long haul, but he's got to do something in the next 60 days to help the team, and what I mean by "help" is addition by subtraction. That's not going to be easy, because the guys we want to move are usually moved in deals where the recipient insists that you take back a guy on their roster with a hefty pay=cheque as well, which is not what we want to do. I don't mind the Blouin deal.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 20, 2002 18:40:26 GMT -5
Jacques in FLA:
I couldn't agree more on the "expected return" question. Savard didn't give much for any of these guys and it's crazy to hang on to them like they're real assets or investments. At this point, that's counter-productive.
I'm out of the loop, for sure, but I would say that if Savard could move Audette for some small return (a 6th) then he should absolutely do it. I think he'll see Czerk respond well to that. How to deal with Gilmour is a tougher question. I can't see anybody giving anything for him until the deadline and in the event of a serious loss at center. I would sure like to see him gone, though.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 20, 2002 23:12:21 GMT -5
Any trade for those guys (and Q and T and KD) wouldn't net a snack pack of Timbits. I wonder if Savard isn't (or wasn't) hoping some of these guys would burn up the ice early and then he could move a bunch for a solid forward or tough defenceman. Trouble is, he not only is contending with his self made problem, having MT as the controller for these aging Piper Cubs, has only depreciated them. (Wow, did you get us started on these flight metaphors!)
Nice post JV, and not a bruised or flinching poster in your jet stream either. Keep up the nicotine fight.
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Post by Viper on Nov 20, 2002 23:22:02 GMT -5
Well, I think that Bowman wouldn't have permitted this to happen. Even if he were coach to Savard's GM, he'd have resisted some of these moves and vetoed others outright. He just wouldn't have put up with it. He'd say look "between Juneau, Dackell, Bulis and Kilger, I can create a good third checking line". Then he'd say "Mckay's only going to play 7 minutes a night, so it's not worth it. Save your money Andre". Then he'd have said "look, Czerk can help, but you can't stick me with Audette and Czerk and Perreault and Gilmour and Koivu and Petrov. That's not going to cut it Andy." "If you can move Audette now, okay, but I don't want both." Something like that. I think that's the short answer. It just wouldn't have happened. exactly and this is a big problem IMO it seems MT is just happy to be here and will just be the puppy dog begging for food at the dinner table. Any scraps that come along he's willing to accept and deal with somehow but there still just scraps. If he has any communication with Savard at all at least one out of the pair of them should have had the foresight to notice this thing evolving heck somebody in the organization must have realized this when they continues to acquire more and more unidimensional softies that play right wing. Maybe the problem is AS and MT and i've just been praying AS is more intelligent than this. Any way you shake it though something needs to be done because this merry go round can't continue. As coach you have to operate like the central command center for the operation in a way order's come from you to the team " this is what you are to do out there on the ice" and order's need to be sent to the management " this is what i need if you expect me to perform my duties effectively" Without a hammer it's not so easy to pound a nail and MT needs to have the balls to clarify these things to his boss.
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Post by montreal on Nov 20, 2002 23:46:51 GMT -5
and as to players who we've traded away... as much as i HATE to admit it, Berezin's got 11 points this season, but getting rid of him was well worth the 7th rounder, man i hated that guy. Also Linden only has 4 points this season, and is -4 for a team that has 22 points in 18 games. how good does that trade look now? ;D ...................gp -g -a pts +/- zubrus/linden 35 02 04 06 -6 bulis/zednik.. 34 11 09 20 +5 We got a 4th rounder for Berezin in '04.
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Post by PTH on Nov 21, 2002 0:17:59 GMT -5
Well JV, you're making my point from this summer better than I ever could.
The difficulties of addition by substraction are exactly what I meant this summer when I was talking about a lack of flexibility.
As to AS, I think I've said it before, he has assetitis, a disease through which a GM badly wants to stockpile assets, any assets, and loses track of what's actually worth hanging onto.
Not dealing Robidas just so that we wouldn't lose that extra player on waivers ? That's just one example of AS trying to hang onto everything he can, and not knowing when to cut bait.
Berezin is the only case where he cut bait, and I'm pretty darn glad he did... (he also cut bait with Garon is a way, but I think it was a calculated risk. We needed that roster spot.)
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 21, 2002 1:01:18 GMT -5
Yeah, but the difference is that I think in the long term this is not going to be such a big handicap or problem. I'm a bit fed up with the current chaos on the roster, and I think it's hurting rather than helping the team, but I don't think it's going to be an intractable problem or one that's going to seriously hurt the organization over the next three years or so. And the next three years is going to be a good time to be a Hab fan, as far as I can tell. Gilmour and Hackett (bless his soul) will be gone next year for sure. Savard just has to make sure that one other forward (Audette) and one other defenceman (Dykhuis or Quintal) join them. And then he has to show some restraint, because Hainsey, Komisarek, Hossa and maybe even Ward (hard to believe) will need spots.
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Post by Vichab on Nov 21, 2002 1:59:05 GMT -5
i'm not that concerned with the situation. We have depth for a change and yes that makes for some juggling of the line up - so big deal. Part of the problem is that at the beginning of the season we are trying to find a set line up. I think it is becoming clear to us, and the players, that there may not be a trade if the price isn't right and players will be moved in and out of the line up. I don't see it affecting the chemistry of the club. We're 3 over 500 and some players have not played well. If AS had traded some of these players and we had some injuries like the last few years you people would be complaining about how AS should have forseen injuries and not traded away players. If George don't mind the price tab i'm fine with the depth and juggling while we play over 500. In the meantime AS can take his time and wait for the right deal.
As for gilmour i got no problem with AS getting him for this year. i don't see it as a risk because i believe he still contributes and will get better as the season goes on. But more importantly if he is washed up, Dougie is honourable enough to admit it and pack it in and we wouldn't have to pay him anything. Seems to me that we can't lose. He delivers and we get what we paid for or he doesn't have it anymore and he retires and we owe him nothing. Not many players or contracts you can say that about.
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Post by montreal on Nov 21, 2002 2:33:22 GMT -5
Yeah, but the difference is that I think in the long term this is not going to be such a big handicap or problem. I'm a bit fed up with the current chaos on the roster, and I think it's hurting rather than helping the team, but I don't think it's going to be an intractable problem or one that's going to seriously hurt the organization over the next three years or so. And the next three years is going to be a good time to be a Hab fan, as far as I can tell. Gilmour and Hackett (bless his soul) will be gone next year for sure. Savard just has to make sure that one other forward (Audette) and one other defenceman (Dykhuis or Quintal) join them. And then he has to show some restraint, because Hainsey, Komisarek, Hossa and maybe even Ward (hard to believe) will need spots. Well I don't see our roster as a problem. So Blouin and Lindsay sit a lot bid deal, they can rotate with Kilger. If big Chad doesn't come to play, then the next game, Lindsay gets the nod. Then we take Chow/Audette/Petrov and rotate them, so that we have 1 player that's ineffective and the one that doesn't produce/or work hard sits. I like it. The only problem I do see is that we have too many forwards, so we can't do the same with the defence. Cause I would have benched Dykhuis a while back, but I would say that the 23 man roster rules could be the biggest reason Hainsey is now riding buses to his games. But then again he should get a lot of ice time down there, and once Souray comes back, I think Hainsey spends the rest of the year in Hamilton unless injuries happen. Or my wish comes, true and Dykhuis is traded, and Quintal gets better or retires.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 21, 2002 9:32:22 GMT -5
Well I don't see our roster as a problem. So Blouin and Lindsay sit a lot bid deal, they can rotate with Kilger. If big Chad doesn't come to play, then the next game, Lindsay gets the nod. Then we take Chow/Audette/Petrov and rotate them, so that we have 1 player that's ineffective and the one that doesn't produce/or work hard sits. I like it. The only problem I do see is that we have too many forwards, so we can't do the same with the defence. Cause I would have benched Dykhuis a while back, but I would say that the 23 man roster rules could be the biggest reason Hainsey is now riding buses to his games. But then again he should get a lot of ice time down there, and once Souray comes back, I think Hainsey spends the rest of the year in Hamilton unless injuries happen. Or my wish comes, true and Dykhuis is traded, and Quintal gets better or retires. The fly in this ointment is the message is sends throughout the organization to the prospects. Why would Ward or Hossa bust his chops to make it if there is not room? If you are Hainsey and you spend another year at the AHL level and come summer time would you not demad "play me or trade me"? What about Ward? Where is the "work hard to get rewarded" syndrom?
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Post by Boston_Habs on Nov 21, 2002 9:45:17 GMT -5
Great posts from everyone.
The forward rotation is simply a mess, but the longer term prognosis is good, IMO. Savard just tinkered a bit much with things over the summer by adding Czerkawski and McKay to the mix. It was clear what he was trying to do, but things just aren't working. It would be a hit to his ego to dump Audette for a low draft pick, but sometimes you have to cut your losses.
I think Savard is a bright guy who knows hockey and has a good eye for talent. My concern is that he may not have the stones to make the bold, or possibly unpopular decision. To me passing on Gilmour this year was a no-brainer, but I think AS deferred too much to Gilmour and let him make the decision.
We get on players like Chouinard, who despite possessing all the right skills, just don't seem to have the right instincts or hockey sense to be successful. My lingering concern is that may be the case with Savard. Great judge of talent and knowledge of the game, but may lack the instincts to make the "right" trade or just knowing when to stop adding veterans to the mix.... it's a bit concerning.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 21, 2002 9:53:36 GMT -5
The fly in this ointment is the message is sends throughout the organization to the prospects. Why would Ward or Hossa bust his chops to make it if there is not room? If you are Hainsey and you spend another year at the AHL level and come summer time would you not demad "play me or trade me"? What about Ward? Where is the "work hard to get rewarded" syndrom? That's kind of been the problem in Montreal for a few years now. CJAD reported, during one of the preseason games, that Savard had told Ward that they wanted him to spend the year in the AHL, and that he wasn't going to get called up. No matter what. I think we had a thread on it somewhere here. He was playing with who? Plekanec and O'dette? Any wonder he didn't look all that good? He knew he wasn't going to make the team. Why bother? We saw it a couple of years ago with Mathieu Decoteaux as well. He put in a 16 goal, 43 point season in the AHL, which is pretty darn good for a 6'4, 220 defenseman, especially considering it was like only his 5th year playing the blueline. At one point, no less an authority than Pat Burns said he was the Citadelle's best defenseman. In a brief NHL callup, he had 2 points in 5 games. Yet, at the end of that year, Andre Savard traded for Patrick Traverse, and Stephane Quintal, resigned Franky Bouillon and drafted 26 year old Martie Jarventie. Descoteaux could no doubt read the writing on the wall, and hasn't done anything since. Except complain when he got sent to Utah, saying that if he played there he would be "out of sight and out of mind." What hope did he have of making the team? Same thing now, and its what I said in the summer. Barring a rash of injuries, and a lot of them, there was going to be no kids on the roster. Balej, Ward, Hossa, Chouinard - they never had a chance, especially after Savard said he wasn't going to risk losing Ribeiro to waivers. Didn't matter what the kids did, they weren't going to beat out Donald Audette. How many preseason games did Audette play? One? Even on defense, if Souray isn't hurt, and we don't lose Robidas to waivers, Hainsey might not have made the team. Savard didn't want to trade Robidas, because he was afraid of losing somebody else, so I doubt he would have tried to then pass Robidas through waivers so he could keep the non-waiver eligible Hainsey on the roster. We will of course never know that, but its just a hunch I have. Anyways, we have had this debate before, ad nauseum. Not much we can do about it, that's just the way it is.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 21, 2002 10:12:40 GMT -5
Assetitis syndrom. "Look how many palyers I have mommy"
Well BC, I do have "nauseumitis" on Savard, Therrien, and so called "Hab policies" but what are you going to do? It's not like we have this all encompassing subject matter to talk about. I was going to paste some nudies but Spiro might get too excited. Online tic-tac-toe? Dear Abbey? Penthouse letters? The hell with that!
FIRE THERRIEN.........................................
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Post by Habsmania on Nov 21, 2002 10:25:22 GMT -5
How about this for a trade : Audette, Czerkawski and Dykhuis and a second round draft choice to edmonton for Smyth, Laracque and Brewer [/color]
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