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Post by Vinna on Nov 9, 2002 1:47:09 GMT -5
There seems to be a great deal more negativity about the job Andre Savars has been doing lately. First of all, I would like to state for the record that in my opinion, he has done a fine job at what he was brought in to do. He has basicly rebuilt the orginazations farm system, scouting staff and entire draft philosophy from the bottom up. He has placed the proper people in the proper roles for them to succeed. He has eliminated the dead wood and replaced it with guys like Martin Madden, who has a proven track record, have replaced the old guard who had several opportunities and failed to get the job done. Thanks to this we currently enjoy having one of the top ten groups of prospects in the entire league. As far as our NHL roster, the deapth and quality has drasticly improved since Mr. Savard was given the reins. Andre Savard was brought in to build this orginazation back up to respectability in all areas and has done an exelent job. Need proof, just look back eighteen short months ago. These steps take time and patience, and I am actually quite impressed with what he has done in so short a period of time. I, for one, am thrilled that there is an actual hockey man in charge of things rather than someone who has been away from the game so long that he became a burocratic company man or someone who was using his position to expand his own personal empire. Now, all this said, Andre Savard has made some mistakes. Thats to be expected. Hell, If you look at the spelling on this little rant, you will see several. I am not about to hold Mr. Savard up to some unobtainable statusof perfection reserved for only God and Sam Pollack. He is just a man doing the job he was hired for anddoing it very well. His only failing may be his loyalty to Michel Therrien but perhaps his hands are somewhat tied in that matter by the powers that be. All in all, I am very happy with the direction the red, white and blue and Andre Savard are taking. Are you? Have a great day. I'M OUT!!!
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Post by montreal on Nov 9, 2002 2:04:26 GMT -5
There seems to be a great deal more negativity about the job Andre Savars has been doing lately. First of all, I would like to state for the record that in my opinion, he has done a fine job at what he was brought in to do. He has basicly rebuilt the orginazations farm system, scouting staff and entire draft philosophy from the bottom up. He has placed the proper people in the proper roles for them to succeed. He has eliminated the dead wood and replaced it with guys like Martin Madden, who has a proven track record, have replaced the old guard who had several opportunities and failed to get the job done. Thanks to this we currently enjoy having one of the top ten groups of prospects in the entire league. As far as our NHL roster, the deapth and quality has drasticly improved since Mr. Savard was given the reins. Andre Savard was brought in to build this orginazation back up to respectability in all areas and has done an exelent job. Need proof, just look back eighteen short months ago. These steps take time and patience, and I am actually quite impressed with what he has done in so short a period of time. I, for one, am thrilled that there is an actual hockey man in charge of things rather than someone who has been away from the game so long that he became a burocratic company man or someone who was using his position to expand his own personal empire. Now, all this said, Andre Savard has made some mistakes. Thats to be expected. Hell, If you look at the spelling on this little rant, you will see several. I am not about to hold Mr. Savard up to some unobtainable statusof perfection reserved for only God and Sam Pollack. He is just a man doing the job he was hired for anddoing it very well. His only failing may be his loyalty to Michel Therrien but perhaps his hands are somewhat tied in that matter by the powers that be. All in all, I am very happy with the direction the red, white and blue and Andre Savard are taking. Are you? Have a great day. I'M OUT!!! Well said. I couldn't agree more. I would add that Savard walked into a nightmare of a problem, and had zero experience as a GM. I think he's done wonders with the farm (but I have to give credit, to the Houle regime for the '00 draft which could turn out some good picks). I also would add the name of Trevor Timmins, who he got from the Sens, and brining in Guy Charron who does have a lot of experience (although, I believe he'e in charge of the PK ). But overall he's used a band aid approach till the boys on the farm are ready. Hopefully it works. I'm just glad that we are headed in the right direction.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 9, 2002 10:26:51 GMT -5
At first, IMO, people were comparing him to Houle. So that's why he looked like a genius.
Now Houle goes away in our minds and we are comparing Savard to the best GM's and we start wondering if he is as good as them.
Plus the lack of youth on the team makes alot of us cranky(I know it makes me cranky). Many of us thought Savard wanted kids on the team, yet not one kid has been added since he came in(Markov was already here). Now we are still a veteran old team with a huge payroll that will have trouble making the playoffs. What's change since Houle is left is the payroll is higher, we have more depth and Theodore's become a franchise goalie...and yet we are not that improved...
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 9, 2002 10:42:18 GMT -5
There was always the hard core fans who love the game and a lot of these mutts have found their way to the internet. Indeed, some inhabit the dog house of this forum.
What's wrong with these mutts, err, fans? They critique every move, every change. The second guess and wonder why Savard is going whatever he does. Then they run into the cyber world to share it with othe Heinze 67 mutts. I suppose this forum serves as Alpo to their hockey hunger.
When was the last time you sat 200 feet away and wondered what a complete stranger was thinking? Isn't the act in itself strange? I say it's sick. Yup, it put's the 'anatics in FANantics.
*sigh*
Just because one is a fan one does not have to be blind or mute.
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Post by Vinna on Nov 9, 2002 11:26:25 GMT -5
At first, IMO, people were comparing him to Houle. So that's why he looked like a genius. Now Houle goes away in our minds and we are comparing Savard to the best GM's and we start wondering if he is as good as them. Plus the lack of youth on the team makes alot of us cranky(I know it makes me cranky). Many of us thought Savard wanted kids on the team, yet not one kid has been added since he came in(Markov was already here). Now we are still a veteran old team with a huge payroll that will have trouble making the playoffs. What's change since Houle is left is the payroll is higher, we have more depth and Theodore's become a franchise goalie...and yet we are not that improved... There is a major difference between Houle and Savard Marc. All one has to do is look at the current roster to see it. We now have NHL quality deapth at every position. That is something that Houle couldn't seem to add during his tenure as GM. As far as bringing in youngsters, well, they take time to develop and I think that the orginization is taking the right approach with them.I would hate to see kids like Hossa and Plekanek brought along to fast and then piegeonholed as third or fourth liners because they didn't produce immediatly upon their first taste of the big league. I would rather have them take their time and develop both their skills and their confidence at the minor league level than have them rushed up and then overwhelmed by more experienced pros. Give it some time and patience and I'm sure we will all be happy with the outcome. Remember, Savard is under a tremendous amount of preassure to win now and to provide a solid future. We are looking much better now than we have in a long, long time in both areas.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 9, 2002 11:32:30 GMT -5
There is a major difference between Houle and Savard Marc. All one has to do is look at the current roster to see it. We now have NHL quality deapth at every position. That is something that Houle couldn't seem to add during his tenure as GM. I agree...I think you missed my point though: At first, the fans compared Houle to Savard and thought...''hey...what a genious André is!!!'' Now, as Houle's horrible tenure is more and more in the past, we start comparing André to other GM's around the league. Agreed. Yes he is and that could be hurting him. If he was in a place where hockey wasn't a religion, instead of acquiring all those veterans he would have acquired more Zednik's and Bulis's instead of Audette's and Berezin's and Quintal's.
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Post by Vinna on Nov 9, 2002 12:07:17 GMT -5
I get it MP. I just don't think its fair to compare Andre to Houle yet considering he is still fairly new to his post. Lets face facts. It dosen't take much to look like a genious when compared to Houle and Andre has done a much better job in a much shorter time frame. As I look around the league at other GM's, I see guys who are under totaly different circumstances and preasures than Andre. I mean in Atlanta, it didn't take much in the way of brains to take Heatly or Kovalchuk in the draft. In Toronto, they throw money around like it was Canadian currency. Same thing on broadway. Give Slats the money to play with and the "saviour of the small market" turns into the biggest hypocrit in the league. I look to San Jose and I see a team that was built properly with youth and astute drafting. The difference between Lombardi and Savard is that Lombardi wasn't under the preassure to the same extent as Savard to "win now" while he was building his team.
I am with you. I would have much rather have seen Andre bring in some young guys like Zednik and Bulis as opposed to guys like Audette and Berezin, but then we wouldn't be as competative as we are today and we would have likely never made the playoffs last year. Andre is in a real catch-22 situation. He can't win no matter what. If he goes with the young guys he will be villified for not trying to win now and if he goes with the vets, he will be flamed for not giving the kids a chance.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 9, 2002 12:22:48 GMT -5
While I tend to agree with everything you said Vinna, I just want to point out that Martin Madden was hired by Rejean Houle. In fact, most, if not all of the current scouting department (headed up by Pierre Dorion) was hired by Houle, who at the end of his tenure was surrounding himself with some pretty good hockey people (Lemaire, Savard, Madden, Jodoin, Melanson, Dorion, etc.). The only guy Savard has hired (to the best of my knowledge) is Trevor Timmins, who was hired this summer, so we haven't had a chance to see his work yet...
Sorry, just a little pet peeve of mine. Houle gets slammed (rightfully so) for enough things he did wrong, he should at least get credit for the (few) things he did right...
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Post by Vinna on Nov 9, 2002 12:38:19 GMT -5
I agree BC, but didn't Savard shuffle everyone around to better exploit their talents? Wasn't Savard actually brought in and given Maddens current spot then, when Savard was promoted to GM he moved Madden up to his old spot and shuffled everyone around. Correct me if I'm wrong because I am really not sure what happened.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 9, 2002 12:46:28 GMT -5
I agree BC, but didn't Savard shuffle everyone around to better exploit their talents? Wasn't Savard actually brought in and given Maddens current spot then, when Savard was promoted to GM he moved Madden up to his old spot and shuffled everyone around. Correct me if I'm wrong because I am really not sure what happened. If I recall correctly, Houle hired Savard to be his assistant GM, and director of player developement (which is what I think Timmins' job is now). Madden was hired as a scout, whose responsibility covered the Windsor - Detroit corridor (where all the OHL teams, and a lot of the college teams are). But I think Madden was really Savard's Player Developement assistant, more than anything else, as Dorion was the chief scout. When the axe fell on Houle and Vigneault, Pierre Boivin simply moved everybody up one spot on the list. Savard, the assistant GM, became GM, Madden, Savard's assistant, became Savard's assistant GM, Therrien, the AHL coach, became NHL coach, and so on. I don't think there was all that much foresight put into the decision. In fact, Madden was never even consulted on the promotion, and wasn't at the press conference announcing his "hiring" because he was still in the Detroit area, and didn't have time to catch a flight. He had no clue it was coming.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 9, 2002 12:52:14 GMT -5
When the axe fell on Houle and Vigneault, Pierre Boivin simply moved everybody up one spot on the list. Savard, the assistant GM, became GM, Madden, Savard's assistant, became Savard's assistant GM, Therrien, the AHL coach, became NHL coach, and so on. I don't think there was all that much foresight put into the decision. In fact, Madden was never even consulted on the promotion, and wasn't at the press conference announcing his "hiring" because he was still in the Detroit area, and didn't have time to catch a flight. He had no clue it was coming. This was a grand scheme to put all the right pieces in their proper position. For sure. In fact, they thankfully lost two worthless pieces in King and Lemaire that would off screwed up anything resembling the brilliant collection of hockey minds we have now. Everybody and everything in it's proper order. As it should be for the legendary Hab’s. Bravo Boiven. .
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Post by Viper on Nov 9, 2002 13:05:43 GMT -5
Well said regarding houle BC,
I think most of us confuse the tail end of his tenure with the beginning of Savard's because the team started it's improvement's after Houle was gone. Considering how inneffective Houle was for the majority of his time here that's an easy and almost something we just want to do.
Back To the commentary by Vinna regarding patience. Darnit would you stop throwing reality in our face Sure patience is a good thing but this is the longest drought in Hab history and gosh darnit i want to win now.
Also the situation regarding our overpaid "stop gaps" if you will in defense of AS the guys we are overpaying to come here are quite simply guys who would come here versus guy's who wouldn't. I'm sure AS would rather be paying free agents signings like holik, lang, Hull, or Robitaille who make slightly more than the perreault's and audette's of the world but let's face it with the FA market as it is the middle of the road talent goes to the middle of the road team's and when we signed alot of our FA's this team's credibility was nothing short of invisible.
Beggar's can't be chooser's as they say.
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Post by Viper on Nov 9, 2002 13:10:49 GMT -5
This was a grand scheme to put all the right pieces in their proper position. For sure. In fact, they thankfully lost two worthless pieces in King and Lemaire that would off screwed up anything resembling the brilliant collection of hockey minds we have now. Everybody and everything in it's proper order. As it should be for the legendary Hab’s. Bravo Boiven. . ouch that was just a simple old fashioned kick to the groin area but exactly true. Imagine how much more effective and systematic all this talent could be with those 2 still on the coaching staff. I'm defenitaly not cutting the eyes out of the paper bag on my head.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 9, 2002 13:16:34 GMT -5
I get it MP. I just don't think its fair to compare Andre to Houle yet considering he is still fairly new to his post. But that's not what I am saying Early on in Savard's tenure, we thought he was a god, a genius because we remembered how bad Houle was. It's like going from the nosebleeds to the red seats. It's such a huge improvement you think you just made the biggest improvement in the world. But then you notice those prestige seats right beside the ice and you realise there is still a ways to go. I'm not comparing Savard to Houle. Savard is a much better hockey mind than Houle is and ever was. Absolutely. Especially in Montreal...
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Post by montreal on Nov 9, 2002 14:11:20 GMT -5
While I tend to agree with everything you said Vinna, I just want to point out that Martin Madden was hired by Rejean Houle. In fact, most, if not all of the current scouting department (headed up by Pierre Dorion) was hired by Houle, who at the end of his tenure was surrounding himself with some pretty good hockey people (Lemaire, Savard, Madden, Jodoin, Melanson, Dorion, etc.). The only guy Savard has hired (to the best of my knowledge) is Trevor Timmins, who was hired this summer, so we haven't had a chance to see his work yet... Sorry, just a little pet peeve of mine. Houle gets slammed (rightfully so) for enough things he did wrong, he should at least get credit for the (few) things he did right... Savard also brought in our assitant coach Guy Charron. I think Tevor Timmins could be a really good pickup, as I talked with some Sens fans, and they were shocked and disappointed that he left and ended up here. Plus he has a lot of experience, and is still very young, so hopefully he stays for a long time. As for Houle, I think I read somewhere that he finally figured it out, that he had no clue what he was doing, so he let his scouts make most if not all of the picks in his final year of drafting '00. I'm not sure if I read that in the papers, or more likely just from a fan so I have no ideal if its true or even close to that. But so far '00 does seem to be a good draft year on paper, so it does make a little bit of sense, when you look at all the other bad years of drafting, and all the sudden he makes a lot of good picks. In Savard's defence though, I think he's done a great job, considering what he's had to work with. He has zero GM experience, and comes into a nightmare of a situation, into a high pressure city, he has turned around the team and turned around the farm system in a short time frame. When Houle was GM, most of his trades, when I would hear that he made a trade, I would get sick to my stomache just thinking "Oh no, what did he do know" as it seems other GM's had a field day on Houle's behalf, whereas now I feel a lot more confident that Savard will get us a fair return, and maybe even come out ahead. So I for one am glad that Savard is running the show.
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Post by Vinna on Nov 9, 2002 14:44:12 GMT -5
This was a grand scheme to put all the right pieces in their proper position. For sure. In fact, they thankfully lost two worthless pieces in King and Lemaire that would off screwed up anything resembling the brilliant collection of hockey minds we have now. Everybody and everything in it's proper order. As it should be for the legendary Hab’s. Bravo Boiven. . I don't think King and Lemaire would be here no matter who was in charge. Lemaire left during his first tenure because he didn't like the preassure of trying to do his job under a microscope. King left his assistant coaching position to become a head coach. I don't think he cared for playing second fiddle to another guy who had less experience and knowledge than he had. Nobody likes to be the insurance policy or in Lemaires case, Reggie's yes man. You are right. They were badly misused here and I don't blame them at all for searching for greener pastures.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 9, 2002 16:18:41 GMT -5
and how can you Blame Boivin? Corey was the president..
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 9, 2002 17:16:39 GMT -5
Savard only looks good in relation to Houle and Boivin only looks good in relation to Corey.
Savard built up our scouting system and depth. He got us back into the playoffs. He got the enthusiasm back at the Keg with an improbable last week slip into the playoffs on the back of a goaltender who won the leagues MVP.
Savard has us mired in mediocrity and there is no hope on the horizon for improvement. We have two very good goaltenders who are outshot two to one on many nights. We have lots of ageing veterans who have no potential for improvement. We are overpaying with an inflated payroll and little production. Our farm system has a paltry two potential defensemen. We have no one who could develop into a Gretzky or Lemieux (unless you believe in Chouinard and Santa Claus.) We are too small (MUCH too small) to compete. Our coach received a vote of confidence and an extension (for pissing off the veteran players and veteran fans!)
If the players in Hamilton can't beat out our mediocre defense and forwards, they don't have star potential.
If not for the Bleu Blanc et Rouge on the sweater, how many of us would cheer for this team?
The only thing I like about Boivin is that he gave away Molson's prized asset, the jewel in their crown.
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Post by montreal on Nov 9, 2002 18:05:27 GMT -5
Savard only looks good in relation to Houle and Boivin only looks good in relation to Corey. Savard built up our scouting system and depth. He got us back into the playoffs. He got the enthusiasm back at the Keg with an improbable last week slip into the playoffs on the back of a goaltender who won the leagues MVP. Savard has us mired in mediocrity and there is no hope on the horizon for improvement. We have two very good goaltenders who are outshot two to one on many nights. We have lots of ageing veterans who have no potential for improvement. We are overpaying with an inflated payroll and little production. Our farm system has a paltry two potential defensemen. We have no one who could develop into a Gretzky or Lemieux (unless you believe in Chouinard and Santa Claus.) We are too small (MUCH too small) to compete. Our coach received a vote of confidence and an extension (for pissing off the veteran players and veteran fans!) If the players in Hamilton can't beat out our mediocre defense and forwards, they don't have star potential. If not for the Bleu Blanc et Rouge on the sweater, how many of us would cheer for this team? The only thing I like about Boivin is that he gave away Molson's prized asset, the jewel in their crown. So Savard did a bad job turning the farm system around, turning the team around (I don't know about you, but I hated seeing a team full of AHLers) and all with no GM experience is such a short time. 2 years ago we had one of the worst years in the teams great history (47pts), and the next year we make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, thats not good? I would think it would have taken a few years just to make the playoffs again. I agree our payroll is high, but its not coming out of my pockets, so I don't complain. When Holike gets 9M somethings wrong with the entire league. Theodore 5.3M?? way to much money for him if you ask me. But when you got to get hired guns, it gets costly. As for your comments about our farm system. What. No Gretzky or Lemieux? no kidding, really, you mean you don't have a prospect as good as the 2 best players to ever play the game? No way hows that possible. So cause our 2 prospects that have little to no pro experience can't beat out guys that have been in the pros for years they suck? Yea thats good reasoning. Hainsey and Komisarek are good prospects, but to think they can leave NCAA (playing 35 games a year) and all the sudden be NHL players overnight is far fetched and not logical. "Paltry" right. Plus theirs others, who might not be as highly touted as those 2 but some players take years to develop especially defencemen. Archer, Glenn, Shasby, Linhart, Korneev, Mikkola, Descoteaux, Beauchemin, who's to say who they will turn out over the next 5 years? Then there's Hossa, Balej, Plekanec, Higgins, Milroy, Perezhogin, Lambert, Ferland, Eneqvist, so because they can't make the team now, they suck too? So should we put like half the team full of rookies, yea that would be fun watching us lose all the time, much like the Thrashers/Preds, at least we would be a great pick in the draft.
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Post by Big_D on Nov 10, 2002 0:56:21 GMT -5
So Savard did a bad job turning the farm system around, turning the team around (I don't know about you, but I hated seeing a team full of AHLers) and all with no GM experience is such a short time. 2 years ago we had one of the worst years in the teams great history (47pts), and the next year we make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, thats not good? I would think it would have taken a few years just to make the playoffs again. I agree our payroll is high, but its not coming out of my pockets, so I don't complain. When Holike gets 9M somethings wrong with the entire league. Theodore 5.3M?? way to much money for him if you ask me. But when you got to get hired guns, it gets costly. As for your comments about our farm system. What. No Gretzky or Lemieux? no kidding, really, you mean you don't have a prospect as good as the 2 best players to ever play the game? No way hows that possible. So cause our 2 prospects that have little to no pro experience can't beat out guys that have been in the pros for years they suck? Yea thats good reasoning. Hainsey and Komisarek are good prospects, but to think they can leave NCAA (playing 35 games a year) and all the sudden be NHL players overnight is far fetched and not logical. "Paltry" right. Plus theirs others, who might not be as highly touted as those 2 but some players take years to develop especially defencemen. Archer, Glenn, Shasby, Linhart, Korneev, Mikkola, Descoteaux, Beauchemin, who's to say who they will turn out over the next 5 years? Then there's Hossa, Balej, Plekanec, Higgins, Milroy, Perezhogin, Lambert, Ferland, Eneqvist, so because they can't make the team now, they suck too? So should we put like half the team full of rookies, yea that would be fun watching us lose all the time, much like the Thrashers/Preds, at least we would be a great pick in the draft. montreal, you stole the words right away from my fingertips. What exactly do we expect? Do we expect to trade Gino Odjick straight up for Mario Lemieux?? How about talking Gretzky out of retirement, and nursing him back to the form he had back in Edmonton?? How about cloning Rocket Richard? COME ON PEOPLE GET REAL!! Of course we don't have a couple of very highly regarded prospects in our system, but we do have several good prospects with the potential to be solid NHLers. I mean, we could have Thornton, Lecavalier, Kovalchuk, etc in our lineup, but we certainly wouldn't be known as the Montreal Canadiens anymore now would we? Savard, last time I checked, isn't God. I am sure he can't build a Stanley Cup champion in seven days like some of us are asking for. But being a playoff team, with the potential to be cinderella, sure as hell beats the direction we were headed a couple of years ago, With Rejean Houles five year plan to drive the Canadiens out of Montreal. Hey, if we have to ride the coattails of a hot goalie into the playoffs, then, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll certainly take it! It beats watching the playoffs without the Canadiens in them. In no way am I trying to compare the Houle regime to the Savard regime, because the two are not comparible. Houles plan was to make us a contender several years down the road. In just over a year, Savard has taken us to the second round of the playoffs, with Encino-man as our head coach. But let's stone him because we didn't win the cup last year, and we probably won't win it this year. We're going in the right direction, but not quite fast enough. Lets fire him, and start all over again.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 11, 2002 19:07:27 GMT -5
So Savard did a bad job turning the farm system around, turning the team around (I don't know about you, but I hated seeing a team full of AHLers) and all with no GM experience is such a short time. 2 years ago we had one of the worst years in the teams great history (47pts), and the next year we make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, thats not good? I would think it would have taken a few years just to make the playoffs again. I agree our payroll is high, but its not coming out of my pockets, so I don't complain. When Holike gets 9M somethings wrong with the entire league. Theodore 5.3M?? way to much money for him if you ask me. But when you got to get hired guns, it gets costly. As for your comments about our farm system. What. No Gretzky or Lemieux? no kidding, really, you mean you don't have a prospect as good as the 2 best players to ever play the game? No way hows that possible. So cause our 2 prospects that have little to no pro experience can't beat out guys that have been in the pros for years they suck? Yea thats good reasoning. Hainsey and Komisarek are good prospects, but to think they can leave NCAA (playing 35 games a year) and all the sudden be NHL players overnight is far fetched and not logical. "Paltry" right. Plus theirs others, who might not be as highly touted as those 2 but some players take years to develop especially defencemen. Archer, Glenn, Shasby, Linhart, Korneev, Mikkola, Descoteaux, Beauchemin, who's to say who they will turn out over the next 5 years? Then there's Hossa, Balej, Plekanec, Higgins, Milroy, Perezhogin, Lambert, Ferland, Eneqvist, so because they can't make the team now, they suck too? So should we put like half the team full of rookies, yea that would be fun watching us lose all the time, much like the Thrashers/Preds, at least we would be a great pick in the draft. Let's be fair. Savard is a big improvement over Houle. Our high payroll doesn't come out of my pocket either, but it's not a good example of good management. It doesn't make it easier for the players who are paid less and producing more to see players getting more for doing less. Bad team chemistry. No Gretzky or Lemieux is sarcasm on my part that must have missed the mark. We also don't have an Iginla or Holik or Kariya or even Speeza or Hossa. (Well actually we have a Hossa the way Vancouver has a Kariya.) We don't even have a player in the top 53 in scoring. We are outshot nine nights out of ten and only our outstanding goaltending keeps us at .500. Our record is better than our intrinsic performance. Savard has improved the team at the expense of our future. We aimed for mediocre and hit the mark. Our production is coming from our forwards who are all over 30 and in the declining years of production. We are too small. We can't clear the zone or the slot. We can't keep the puck and pressure in the opponents zone. We are not getting better with young guns who are about to step up to the next level. We got better with retread veterans who are getting ready to retire or be pushed out to pasture. Markov, Hainsey, and Komisarek will be good (how good we are not sure). We used to think that Chouinard and Ward would be good too. Close only counts in Horseshoes and Handgrenades. We are renting present mediocrity and not building with youth. Perrault, Audette and McKay are not likely to improve much in the next five years. Theodore and Hackett are playing as well as they ever will. Our defense is deep with mediocre journeymen. Traverse is as good as he's gonna get. And Savard extends MTheads contract? Where is the next Stanley Cup contender going to come from?
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 11, 2002 19:20:58 GMT -5
Savard has improved the team at the expense of our future. We aimed for mediocre and hit the mark. Name me one prospect not named Chris Dyment savard has dealt...
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Post by HabBoy on Nov 11, 2002 20:10:38 GMT -5
Wow, you guys are tough, but, I think the proof is in the pudding. The Habs are winning, maybe its not pretty, but they are wins, which is more than a lot of teams can say. kickme.to/thehabs
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 11, 2002 20:18:31 GMT -5
Habboy, you are going to have to get used to it here. Every little move is analyzed. When we dumped Dyment for a 5th rounder, we had a 130 reply thread about it Plus alot of people here saw the great Habs teams of the 70's and see these versions and know it ain't the same...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 11, 2002 20:29:39 GMT -5
Let's be fair. Savard is a big improvement over Houle. Our high payroll doesn't come out of my pocket either, but it's not a good example of good management. It doesn't make it easier for the players who are paid less and producing more to see players getting more for doing less. Bad team chemistry. No Gretzky or Lemieux is sarcasm on my part that must have missed the mark. We also don't have an Iginla or Holik or Kariya or even Speeza or Hossa. (Well actually we have a Hossa the way Vancouver has a Kariya.) We don't even have a player in the top 53 in scoring. We are outshot nine nights out of ten and only our outstanding goaltending keeps us at .500. Our record is better than our intrinsic performance. Savard has improved the team at the expense of our future. We aimed for mediocre and hit the mark. Our production is coming from our forwards who are all over 30 and in the declining years of production. We are too small. We can't clear the zone or the slot. We can't keep the puck and pressure in the opponents zone. We are not getting better with young guns who are about to step up to the next level. We got better with retread veterans who are getting ready to retire or be pushed out to pasture. Markov, Hainsey, and Komisarek will be good (how good we are not sure). We used to think that Chouinard and Ward would be good too. Close only counts in Horseshoes and Handgrenades. We are renting present mediocrity and not building with youth. Perrault, Audette and McKay are not likely to improve much in the next five years. Theodore and Hackett are playing as well as they ever will. Our defense is deep with mediocre journeymen. Traverse is as good as he's gonna get. And Savard extends MTheads contract? Where is the next Stanley Cup contender going to come from? This post is a perfect example of what ails most Habs fans. For years I've been hearing that Montreal's fans are the most knoweldgable in hockey. Now I seriously doubt that. We may love the game, and many of us grew up watching Stanley Cup parades every year and loved the team and its winning ways, but I'd swear you'd find more knoweldgable hockey people in the Soo or in Sudbury. Now that we are (but for the banners) just like most of the other 29 teams in the NHL -- competing like hell to build and maintain a team -- we're seeing how knowedgable the fans here really are. Listen to the call-in shows, read the papers, go to the Bell Center, listen to the fans: everywhere is the kind of ignorance I would associate with Tampa Bay or Nashville. In fact, those folks are probably more patient than we are. Here, the most common and irritating theme is "look at the team Savard has built", which suggests that many people can't distinguish the tent behind the house under construction from the house itself. Or if they do understand the difference then the sight of two by fours, framing without walls, floors of plywood, exposed plumbing and electrical wiring sends them into kind of panicked incomprehension. All they're used to seeing is pictures in Home and Garden or Architectual Digest, with coffee tables, drapes, persian rugs, and sunlight bathing rooms in a glorious orange-gold that reminds them of Scandanavian erotica. Well sorry, folks, when the house is under construction you're more likely to see the crack of a plumber's ass than a Danish chick reclining on a rug in front of a roaring fire. Get used to it. That's life. Sometimes it's a hard nut to swallow. "Savard has improved the team at the expense of the future" "We aimed for mediocre and hit the mark" "Perreault, Audette and Mckay are not likely to improve in the next five years" You may as well complain to your general contractor that the architectual plans don't call for scaffolding in front of your house. Wouldn't you feel stupid when the guy turns to you and says "we need it to finish the roof....we're planning on taking it away when we finish"....
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Post by 24andcounting on Nov 11, 2002 21:01:19 GMT -5
Well sorry, folks, when the house is under construction you're more likely to see the crack of a plumber's ass than a Danish chick reclining on a rug in front of a roaring fire. Get used to it. That's life. Sometimes it's a hard nut to swallow. My sides hurt. That was classic.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 11, 2002 21:08:06 GMT -5
This post is a perfect example of what ails most Habs fans. For years I've been hearing that Montreal's fans are the most knoweldgable in hockey. Now I seriously doubt that. We may love the game, and many of us grew up watching Stanley Cup parades every year and loved the team and its winning ways, but I'd swear you'd find more knoweldgable hockey people in the Soo or in Sudbury. Now that we are (but for the banners) just like most of the other 29 teams in the NHL -- competing like hell to build and maintain a team -- we're seeing how knowedgable the fans here really are. Listen to the call-in shows, read the papers, go to the Bell Center, listen to the fans: everywhere is the kind of ignorance I would associate with Tampa Bay or Nashville. In fact, those folks are probably more patient than we are. Here, the most common and irritating theme is "look at the team Savard has built", which suggests that many people can't distinguish the tent behind the house under construction from the house itself. Or if they do understand the difference then the sight of two by fours, framing without walls, floors of plywood, exposed plumbing and electrical wiring sends them into kind of panicked incomprehension. All they're used to seeing is pictures in Home and Garden or Architectual Digest, with coffee tables, drapes, persian rugs, and sunlight bathing rooms in a glorious orange-gold that reminds them of Scandanavian erotica. Well sorry, folks, when the house is under construction you're more likely to see the crack of a plumber's ass than a Danish chick reclining on a rug in front of a roaring fire. Get used to it. That's life. Sometimes it's a hard nut to swallow. "Savard has improved the team at the expense of the future" "We aimed for mediocre and hit the mark" "Perreault, Audette and Mckay are not likely to improve in the next five years" You may as well complain to your general contractor that the architectual plans don't call for scaffolding in front of your house. Wouldn't you feel stupid when the guy turns to you and says "we need it to finish the roof....we're planning on taking it away when we finish".... Well, that's fine and dandy but I hear they are building the house over an old Indian burial ground.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 11, 2002 21:33:51 GMT -5
This post is a perfect example of what ails most Habs fans. For years I've been hearing that Montreal's fans are the most knoweldgable in hockey. Now I seriously doubt that. We may love the game, and many of us grew up watching Stanley Cup parades every year and loved the team and its winning ways, but I'd swear you'd find more knoweldgable hockey people in the Soo or in Sudbury. Now that we are (but for the banners) just like most of the other 29 teams in the NHL -- competing like hell to build and maintain a team -- we're seeing how knowedgable the fans here really are. Listen to the call-in shows, read the papers, go to the Bell Center, listen to the fans: everywhere is the kind of ignorance I would associate with Tampa Bay or Nashville. In fact, those folks are probably more patient than we are. Here, the most common and irritating theme is "look at the team Savard has built", which suggests that many people can't distinguish the tent behind the house under construction from the house itself. Or if they do understand the difference then the sight of two by fours, framing without walls, floors of plywood, exposed plumbing and electrical wiring sends them into kind of panicked incomprehension. All they're used to seeing is pictures in Home and Garden or Architectual Digest, with coffee tables, drapes, persian rugs, and sunlight bathing rooms in a glorious orange-gold that reminds them of Scandanavian erotica. Well sorry, folks, when the house is under construction you're more likely to see the crack of a plumber's ass than a Danish chick reclining on a rug in front of a roaring fire. Get used to it. That's life. Sometimes it's a hard nut to swallow. "Savard has improved the team at the expense of the future" "We aimed for mediocre and hit the mark" "Perreault, Audette and Mckay are not likely to improve in the next five years" You may as well complain to your general contractor that the architectual plans don't call for scaffolding in front of your house. Wouldn't you feel stupid when the guy turns to you and says "we need it to finish the roof....we're planning on taking it away when we finish".... And that's the perfect example of why some people are still waiting for little green guys to come out of flying saucers and reveal the secrect of the universe to them... You keep referring to this master plan or this great franchise that Savard is coming up with from under his hat, when in fact all he's doing is what many GMs in his position would: use the money a willing owner has, to patch up a team with as much NHL depth as possible in order to secure playoff revenue, which is what his boss is after. That's it. Look at what Savard was doing when Molson was the owner and look at what he’s been doing with GG as the owner: Totally different direction so puh-leaase spare us “The Grand Scheme”, “Big Picture” and all the rest of that BS. Until we clearly see that Savard has something else in mind then to continually use GG's cash to fill up his roster with average NHL depth, then you're idea of Savard's masterplan is just a fiction with no basis in reality.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 11, 2002 21:44:52 GMT -5
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 11, 2002 22:32:48 GMT -5
You keep referring to this master plan or this great franchise that Savard is coming up with from under his hat, when in fact all he's doing is what many GMs in his position would: use the money a willing owner has, to patch up a team with as much NHL depth as possible in order to secure playoff revenue, which is what his boss is after. That's it. Look at what Savard was doing when Molson was the owner and look at what he’s been doing with GG as the owner: Totally different direction so puh-leaase spare us “The Grand Scheme”, “Big Picture” and all the rest of that BS. Until we clearly see that Savard has something else in mind then to continually use GG's cash to fill up his roster with average NHL depth, then you're idea of Savard's masterplan is just a fiction with no basis in reality. AS had Molson as his bosses for what? 2 months? That's not the best comparaison in the world...
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