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Post by montreal on Nov 7, 2002 1:38:34 GMT -5
Well my question is simple, do we try and trade for a Power Forward or do we wait and try and get one through the draft. My opinion and reason for asking this, is that its clear, we could use a talented PF but getting one is easier said then done. If I could be picky about it, I would prefer a LW PF, since we are a little light at LW, and a little heavy at RW. Now some may say we already have one, but I do not agree. Bulis, Kilger, McKay, Zednik, none of these do I consider a real PF or a good PF. Zednik does have a power move, but it's not that powerful. McKay might have been one, but those days are long gone. Kilger certainly has the size, speed, and skating down, and he can be gritty and phyiscal, but lacks any real offence ability. Kilger just doesn't seem to be good with the puck, but a lot better when he doesn't have the puck. I hope his time off will get him going, as when he hits everything, its a good site to see. Lastly, Bulis. I must say, I didn't think he would be playing this good. I know he played this way last year, (and had a great preseason last year) but for some reason, I didn't really see him having an impact with the team. But he has been one of the better forwards this year. I don't see him as a PF though. He does has the size, speed, skating but lacks good offence ability. He's in the same boat as Kilger, but for different reasons. On one hand, I think Bulis has more skill on offence, but unlike Kilger he isn't close to being as phyiscal or gritty. Bulis wont be a PF, IMO, at least one big think holding him back is he shoots from outside the box when he gets in close. He needs to drive to the net and knock people out of his way. But IMO, that will only happen in dreamland and not reality. Don't get me wrong, I like all of these players, Zednik, Kilger, Bulis, but I just don't see them as our "power forward". So what does Andre Savard do to fix this problem? Trade for one. If so who, and what would we have to give up? I like Shane Doan, but why would they trade him? Isbister, I think is overrated. Shanny, the wings wouldnt give up. I could go on, but I just don't see it happening, unless some team gets desperate, but the price would be high. I would think Hainsey or Komisarek plus someone like Hossa. Is it worth it, to draw from our future to get something we sorely need? What about our prospects. Hossa, comes to mind, and maybe one could make an arguement for him. He's got the size, skating, speed, good work along the boards, good hands, good shot, and sets up plays. But something tells me he isn't the answer. I don't know if your waiting for an answer in this thread, but something tells me Hossa is not the PF we are looking for. Well there is one guy, but he would be several years away and must work on his skating before we even consider him. But I'll bring it up since I am on a roll here. Jothan Ferland, a 7th round '02 pick. He's a RW 6'2 220, will turn 20 on 2-9-03. So far this season in 17 games, 15-16-31 +20 33 pims 2PP 3SH 3GW. His goals, +/- and ppg average put him near the top in the QMJHL. Last season in 55 games, 28-46-74 104 pims 9PP 1SH 8GW. But he does play for a strong team (titans) and in the Q so that does distort his numbers some what. He is quoted as saying he trys to play a game like former Hab John LeClair. Now I'm not trying to say he's the answer or our future PF, cause I don't know the answer. All I know is the question, where is our Power Forward? Btw, all the stats on Ferland can be found at letitan.com I have seen other sites list him at 208 lbs, not the 220 that his teams webpage has, so I don't know what site is right. Well thats all.
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Post by Vinna on Nov 7, 2002 2:18:39 GMT -5
I guess it all depends on your point of view. Power forwards are very rare. Therefore they are extremely expensive to trade for. As far as drafting for them, well they seem to take forever to develop. Just look at Todd Bertuzzi. If you want one to put in place for a stanley cup run right now, the answer would be to trade for one, but there would be serious reprocussions for the future by doing this. Like you said, it would likely cost us Komisarek, Hainsey or some of our other top prospects. Hell, last time we wanted a power forward, it cost us Pierre Turgeon. If the choice is drafting one, be patient, it could take 5 to 7 years to develop him and even then it is a crap shoot. Remember Terry Ryan. You are correct in saying that there is no one on the current team that is even close to being a power forward. It's kinda depressing for someone like me who is a fan of smashmouth hockey. As far as Hossa as a power forward, I have my doubts about that also. I don't think he plays the physical style or grit. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid. I think he has potential and would like to see him up here instead of some of the stiffs we got but I'm sure he is better off in the minors right now where he can get the proper ice time to develop instead of being ruined by Therrien. As far as Ferland, I know absolutley nothing about him. He sounds like a good one, but what drawbacks does he have that caused him to drop to the seventh round? Have a good one
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 8:46:35 GMT -5
Last cup winners:
Detroit: Shanny Avalanche: they had Forsberg and Deadmarsh the first time, both of them were not there the 2nd time New Jersey: Arnott, Holik, McKay, Lemieux,etc Dallas: ?? Rangers: Graves Us: LeClair Pens:? Stevens? Tocchet?
Sounds like almost every cup winning team has had one or two of them.
I would really, really, really like to see AS get one in a trade. I know Isbister is kind of overated, but he still has the talent to be a 25-30 goal scorer in this league.
The problem you can have when you try to draft one, you end up looking for a big guy and you wind up with a bust.
I don't think any of our prospects has power forward written all over them as well. Hossa at his best will be more of a good 2 way player with size and skill. But no overly physical.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Nov 7, 2002 10:47:34 GMT -5
The Habs certainly need a real power forward and preferably on left wing. Like it has been said these guys need to be developed and just don't step right in from junior. Drafting one is every teams dream but that is about 5 years after being drafted and then a huge maybe. Its better to try and find a younger player with potential and lost in a numbers game and make a trade that won't cost your future. Burtuzzi as an example was not a power forward in NY and neither was Leclair in Montreal. Kilger could be if given the chance but he would need to be given a constant place on the second line and let play night in and out. A guy like Rasmussen has the same potential and would be worth the gamble in my opinion. Maybe we could tell Charron to convert to left wing for this year and maybe be would have that potential as well since he cannot make the NHL at centre.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 10:53:29 GMT -5
Maybe we could tell Charron to convert to left wing for this year and maybe be would have that potential as well since he cannot make the NHL at centre. Charron?
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Nov 7, 2002 11:05:30 GMT -5
Sorry I meant Eric Chouinard but had a brain cramp while reading the other posts
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 11:06:43 GMT -5
Sorry I meant Eric Chouinard but had a brain cramp while reading the other posts I thought Guy was attempting a comeback there for a second...LOL
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Post by Ged on Nov 7, 2002 11:08:52 GMT -5
He probably meant Chouinard. Eric.
Bringing in a proven power forward I think is way too costly. Trading for prospects who have the potential to become a PF like Burke did with Bertuzzi, or Savard did with Zednik, is the way to go.
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Post by KILLger on Nov 7, 2002 12:16:41 GMT -5
Players that could become PFs:- Michal Grosek (Boston) - Lacks desire.
- Brad Isbister (New York Islanders) - Consistency's a problem.
- André Roy (Tampa Bay) - He's more of a talented goon.
- Nikolai Antropov (Toronto) - Knees a problem.
- Mark Bell (Chicago) - Inconsistent and had injury problems.
- Josh Green (Edmonton) - Shoulders' a problem
- Ethan Moreau (Edmonton) - Not the best offensively...
- Adam Hall (Nashville) - Not much proven as of now...
- Landon Wilson (Phoenix) - I-N-C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T
Those are guys that are close to make it (IMO) and that could be available, for the right price.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 15:39:55 GMT -5
Out of that list
Grosek: stay away
Isbister: you know my feelings on him
Roy: a goon more than anything
Antropov: very slow but still very young
Bell: same age as Antropov..
Green: seems to be stagnating in Edmonton
Moreau: no hands
Hall:haven't seen enough
Wilson: has blown his chances
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 7, 2002 18:27:26 GMT -5
Well, I will tell you what I saw that had me wondering and dreaming. In one play, Little Komi rushed up the boards, tossed aside one of the defenseman and was down, behind the net before the poor guy could even recover.
You guys want to drool? Think of a 6'4" 240 lb POWER FORWARD that is virtually unstoppable, very good skater and has a wicked wrist shot...............are starting to collectively dream?
What do you think I rather have? Especially in Smurf Central.
Just an idea...........
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Post by Viper on Nov 7, 2002 18:43:26 GMT -5
Well, I will tell you what I saw that had me wondering and dreaming. In one play, Little Komi rushed up the boards, tossed aside one of the defenseman and was down, behind the net before the poor guy could even recover. You guys want to drool? Think of a 6'4" 240 lb POWER FORWARD that is virtually unstoppable, very good skater and has a wicked wrist shot...............are starting to collectively dream? What do you think I rather have? Especially in Smurf Central. Just an idea........... hmm some guy i ran into at the Hamilton game on sunday was thinking this same thing. If i remember correctly his name was Micheal or something. Stopping to think though if Hainsey develop's properly and Markov continue's to impress that will be two solid Blueliner's for tomorow. we converted AM from forward why not do the opposite with Komi. I agree with that thought even if it's just as an experiment for a little while. Run it by claude Julien next time we go to Hamilton and see what he think's
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 7, 2002 18:52:47 GMT -5
Well, I will tell you what I saw that had me wondering and dreaming. In one play, Little Komi rushed up the boards, tossed aside one of the defenseman and was down, behind the net before the poor guy could even recover. You guys want to drool? Think of a 6'4" 240 lb POWER FORWARD that is virtually unstoppable, very good skater and has a wicked wrist shot...............are starting to collectively dream? What do you think I rather have? Especially in Smurf Central. Just an idea........... No.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 19:18:04 GMT -5
I'll second that BC Maybe the Whalers should have done that with Pronger instead of trading him for power forward in Shanny
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 7, 2002 19:30:47 GMT -5
hmm some guy i ran into at the Hamilton game on sunday was thinking this same thing. If i remember correctly his name was Micheal or something. Stopping to think though if Hainsey develop's properly and Markov continue's to impress that will be two solid Blueliner's for tomorow. we converted AM from forward why not do the opposite with Komi. I agree with that thought even if it's just as an experiment for a little while. Run it by claude Julien next time we go to Hamilton and see what he think's He dosn't have to learn and spend anywhere near as many years developing. Yup, my buddy Savard heads my advice, brings little Mike up front, scores 20 goals in 10 games and the next thing you know I am coaching in the AHL. Cheap hotel rooms, cheaper food and a trailer trash trallop in every hick town. Ahhh, that's the life.
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Post by wade on Nov 7, 2002 20:21:48 GMT -5
like i've been saying the whole time.. we need todd bertuzzi! ;D
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 21:03:03 GMT -5
we almost got him for Linden in 1999-2000.
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Post by Viper on Nov 7, 2002 21:11:43 GMT -5
not one of these guy's or the youngster on domi's arm
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 21:52:01 GMT -5
where the heck did you get this?
Is that Belfore?
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Post by Psycorp on Nov 7, 2002 22:21:51 GMT -5
I got my sight on one through the draft this year (but you know PF take a long time to develop)
11. Steve Bernier --RW--Moncton Has power-forward's makeup and great understanding of the game. Bernier has good hands and creativity and isn't afraid to mix it up along the boards. A complete package.
He is rated 11th by the prospect advisor so by trading up lets's say 7th or 8th we could realisticaly get him especially when it's a good year with lot of excellent prospects.
We are light at RW, not at lw by the way
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 22:25:03 GMT -5
Bernier would be nice.
Anyone got more info on him?
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 7, 2002 22:49:35 GMT -5
What could we get for Therrien? Boivin? Throw in Savard??
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Post by Psycorp on Nov 7, 2002 23:04:39 GMT -5
I got a little more:
Bernier is 6'2" 220 Good mobility but not the fastest: a notch above average i would say he also likes to hit and go in the corners
last year: 66 gp 31 goals 28 assists 59 pts
this year: 21 gp 9 goals 14 assists 23 pts +6 29 pim
he's 23rd in the league for points (not bad for a 17 y/o)
got nothing else sorry
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Post by Psycorp on Nov 7, 2002 23:09:53 GMT -5
yahoo, look what i got from hockey's future:
Bernier is a very strong player who, along with his skills, has a physical edge and two-way awareness to his game. Steve is an excellent skater, a creative playmaker and great stickhandler. Bernier isn't afraid to drop the gloves and doesn't avoid traffic. Plays a tough-nosed, complete game; a surefire first rounder in 2003, with an outside shot at the top 10. Right now, Bernier is averaging around a point-a-game for the Moncton Wildcats of the QMJHL. He and Patrick Thoresen (top prospect for the 2002 NHL Entry Draft) are the top scorers for the team.
Prospect insider's Steve Gionet's comments: "Bernier has it all, he has very soft creative hands, quick Joe Sakic-type wrist shot, he has a powerful slap shot. He is a fast skater with great balance... Bernier is very strong on the puck and is a great passer... Seems to have eyes on the back of his head."
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 23:10:59 GMT -5
Sounds interesting. Would love to see us get a potential power forward.
You live in Chicoutimi right? is Bernier coming to town anytime soon?
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Post by Psycorp on Nov 7, 2002 23:15:07 GMT -5
They come to town tomorow but i work friday night Next game they come in Chicoutimi is febuary 26th
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 7, 2002 23:30:56 GMT -5
anyone know when Moncton come to Montreal?
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Post by Psycorp on Nov 7, 2002 23:45:49 GMT -5
At Montréal: Sunday december 22 3pm It would permit you to watch Michael Lambert as well
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Post by montreal on Nov 8, 2002 0:19:23 GMT -5
I got my sight on one through the draft this year (but you know PF take a long time to develop) 11. Steve Bernier --RW--Moncton Has power-forward's makeup and great understanding of the game. Bernier has good hands and creativity and isn't afraid to mix it up along the boards. A complete package. He is rated 11th by the prospect advisor so by trading up lets's say 7th or 8th we could realisticaly get him especially when it's a good year with lot of excellent prospects. We are light at RW, not at lw by the way RW's McKay, Audette, Dackell, Czerkawski, Balej, Milroy, Perezhogin, Ferland, Ward, O'Dette, Selig, Murray, Buturlin, Thinel, Anger, Staal, Odjick ?, Vertala ?, Lw's Zednik, Kilger, Bulis, Lindsay, Blouin, Kilger, Hossa, Larrivee, Chouinard, Eneqvist, Marois, Ryder, Ujick
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Post by Viper on Nov 8, 2002 0:27:44 GMT -5
Montreal, you forgot to list the center's not that we need any size up the middle or anything with guy's like perreault saku ribiero and higgin's
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