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Post by BadCompany on Jan 30, 2003 9:06:14 GMT -5
PTH does that all the time and still can't get lucky........ Well, we still have some rather cool days here in May, so maybe the ladies aren't impressed with PTH's...uh... "reaction to the cold." |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 30, 2003 9:07:23 GMT -5
But Doc, Chouinard is a C converted into a LW. I don't think he will be turned into a RW anytime soon. Can you tell me in all honesty that Chouinard would have, in a near future, outplay Hossa (younger with better AHL stats and more of a physical presence) or Bulis (one year older than Chouinard and a lot of NHL experience already) on LW? People have been critical of AS for not meeting his team needs, well, I saw no future for Chouinard in Mtl, other young players showed more skills and work ethic than him and AS wants to bring new faces in the AHL next year. We will have to wait a few years before making a real evaluation of this deal. Hossa is also a center converted to the wing, Ward is also a center converted to the wing. Savard converted all his prospect on the wing and then there was a logjam... Could our system have a use for a skilled 6.2 center right now ? I don't wanna be over critical of Savard but at the same I am not ready to say that is a great move for our future and the chance for that trade to turn greatly in favor of Philly are quite high. I don't think Chewy will become a Leclair, but at the same time there is no Rechhi coming the other way... |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 30, 2003 9:18:53 GMT -5
BC, I don't know were you are getting this "sweet, sweet hands". Unless of course his ice cream melted......
I don't see it. Look, I wish the kid all the luck in the world but in the end, I don't think Savard traded him because he thought he had potential. A lesser Renberg is nothing to write home about.
Something else comes in mind. Savard has this "mould" he want's players to fit. How does Ward fit in that? He dosen't so will he trade him for a first?
Questions that lead to more questions, that lead to more questions.....
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 30, 2003 9:37:09 GMT -5
BC, I don't know were you are getting this "sweet, sweet hands". Unless of course his ice cream melted...... I don't see it. Look, I wish the kid all the luck in the world but in the end, I don't think Savard traded him because he thought he had potential. A lesser Renberg is nothing to write home about. Something else comes in mind. Savard has this "mould" he want's players to fit. How does Ward fit in that? He dosen't so will he trade him for a first? Questions that lead to more questions, that lead to more questions..... Well, when I look at him, I see the talent, some patience with the puck in the slot (compare that to Jason Ward, who jams it towards the net the second he gets it anywhere within 15 feet of the goalie) and a killer shot. He just lacks heart and desire and most importantly, elite hockey sense. He can't create scoring chances by himself, but if someone can create them for him, he can sure bury them... Even if you look at his AHL stats, they show a goal scorer's ability: 2000-2001 (his rookie AHL season): 12 goals in 48 games (.25 GPG), which would translate into 20 goals over a season. 2001-2002: 19 goals in 65 games (.29 GPG), which would equal 24 goals over a season. 2002-2003: 12 goals in 32 games (.375 GPG), which would translate into 31 goals over a season. Not great numbers for sure (and lest I get lumped into the anti-Savard conspiracy crowd again, a 2nd rounder is a great return for him), but they were improving, he is a big boy (again, that "bigger men take longer" argument) and he has had to battle injuries. I think he scored only one goal in his first 10 games after returning from that strained groin, which makes his season total even more impressive. He has NHL talent. Good NHL talent. He needs character (which can be obtained, as he matures), grit (which can be beaten into him) and hockey sense (which he will never have). He is a project, but again, its a very safe bet for Clarke; if Chouinard works out, he looks like a genius, but if not, who cares? Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Savard take more chances on guys like Chouinard (once we get our own AHL team and the roster room to fill it of course)... |
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Post by Yeti on Jan 30, 2003 9:39:35 GMT -5
Sure Doc, a 6'3 C would be nice, but with 20-25 goals and 50 points?? Could Eric do better than Yannick? Chouinard does not have the reputation of being a good two-way player. I guess Ribeiro is in the same boat. IMO, even if Chouinard is bigger, I think Ribeiro has more skills and raw talent and will make a bigger impact at the NHL level. Chouinard might have a better shot but Ribs is three time the playmaker Chouinard is. If Chouinard was a physical player I would be worried but this is his fourth year as a pro and even when healthy I saw him being knock-off the puck way to easily (unless he made major improvements since his Citadelles' days) + his hockey sense is questionable. So better prospects than him on LW and C. Dead end.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 30, 2003 9:53:01 GMT -5
When a competitive, contendrer, talented team like Philly has room right away for Eric Chouinard and an average Montreal team hasn't, there has to be something fishy. As I said, we will know very soon who's right, there is no middle of the road here: the guy was totally off HABS management radar and he's now in Philly's starting lineup and they gave a 2nd for him. 2 opposite opinions on Chewy.
IMO Chouinard will be a Daze clone. Yes that same Daze that Savard was trying to get a few weeks ago...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 30, 2003 10:04:36 GMT -5
When a competitive, contendrer, talented team like Philly has room right away for Eric Chouinard and an average Montreal team hasn't, there has to be something fishy. As I said, we will know very soon who's right, there is no middle of the road here: the guy was totally off HABS management radar and he's now in Philly's starting lineup and they gave a 2nd for him. 2 opposite opinions on Chewy. IMO Chouinard will be a Daze clone. Yes that same Daze that Savard was trying to get a few weeks ago... Chouinard is dressing in Philly because of injuries. Chouinard hasn't performed in international competition, he hasn't come close to being an elite player in the NHL's developmental league (the AHL) and he's never looked good at a single Habs camp. Could he still make it as a pro? Anything's possible' but I'd say it's unlikely. He has neither the wheels nor the will to be an impact player, that much seems certain. Philly has enough draft picks kicking around to take a flyer on Eric, no pun intended, but that's all it is. Clarke should have drawn the line at a 3rd rounder. If Chouinard had been moved for a 3rd, or a 4th, nobody would be nearly as paranoid. But Clarke overpaid for Oates last year, so it shouldn't come as a great surprise that he's overpaid here. Watch Andre draft a solid prospect at no. 50 overall, or package a player with a pick or two picks to end up with another first rounder. |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 30, 2003 10:08:16 GMT -5
All I have to say before I have to leave this discussion and milk the cows...
Savard has a big bus load of talent coming to Hamilton next year. If Chewy was thrown in there with Perezoghin, Milroy, Plecks and the other assorted multitudes, besides what is coming from July, then his star could rust pretty quickly. Getting a second now is better then nothing by next year.
Who knows what that top 60 draft choice will look like.
Savard said that he Clarke offered him players from the roster. I wonder who? Could he have parlayed it to a bigger trade?
Questions that lead to more questions...................
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Jan 30, 2003 11:43:03 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time reading some of the posts I have seen here.
Not to praise AS for being the next Sam Pollack but here he got a second round pick for a guy that quite simply was not in the plans of the organization.
Its no secrect that Savard likes players with speed and skill, Clarke likes size with speed being a second thought.
Chouinard most certainly falls in the latter.
Both teams are being developed in different styles, Montreal with quickness and a good transistion game, Philly with crowding the net and playing the puck down low.
Some of the posts with the conspiricy theories are straight from Oliver Stone, from he was traded because it was Houle's pick to Savard doen't like his father???
Chouniard may get a better shot at the NHL in Philly, he may prosper and become a 25 goal guy that will have people calling for Savard's head, or he may never mature and show the dedication or skill to make him a full time player. Either way he wasn't going to play for the Habs, so a second round pick is an excellent deal.
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Post by AH on Jan 30, 2003 11:51:26 GMT -5
Some people couldn't recognize a good deal if it hit them in the head. They are just obsessed with criticizing Savard's every move. They only do it for the sake if doing it (warranted or not), because that is their angle on an internet message board.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 30, 2003 12:33:36 GMT -5
I thought the Hackett deal was a really good one. Hackett will not come back to bite us in the...
But the Chouinard one just might. Not saying it will. But when you give all your confidence to a slumping player ... moreover if you play him with his former team mate and a team made for him ... The flyers are a big team and a soft 6'3 could still play bigger than he usually does if all his team mates do. I hope not though ... Still a good trade because he wasn't getting anywhere in Montreal. A trade was all Chouinard could have hoped for to get it going. One last chance ...
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 30, 2003 12:41:35 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time reading some of the posts I have seen here. Not to praise AS for being the next Sam Pollack but here he got a second round pick for a guy that quite simply was not in the plans of the organization. Its no secrect that Savard likes players with speed and skill, Clarke likes size with speed being a second thought. Chouinard most certainly falls in the latter. Both teams are being developed in different styles, Montreal with quickness and a good transistion game, Philly with crowding the net and playing the puck down low. Some of the posts with the conspiricy theories are straight from Oliver Stone, from he was traded because it was Houle's pick to Savard doen't like his father??? Chouniard may get a better shot at the NHL in Philly, he may prosper and become a 25 goal guy that will have people calling for Savard's head, or he may never mature and show the dedication or skill to make him a full time player. Either way he wasn't going to play for the Habs, so a second round pick is an excellent deal. Yeah, what you said. Only I would have taken about 3000 more words to say the same thing.  |
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 30, 2003 12:49:50 GMT -5
wow...talk about being picky Players on the habs who can play LW: Hossa Zednik The now great Mike Ribeiro Bulis Kilger Chow In the system: Plekanec Perezhogin Ryder(I believe...) Where would have Chouinard fit in?  and even if he scores 25 goals with the Flyers...does it matter? the guy is a flake..a softie...even Jacques Demers said it this morning...we have plenty of soft forwards.. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 30, 2003 12:55:22 GMT -5
...and even if he scores 25 goals with the Flyers...does it matter? the guy is a flake..a softie...even Jacques Demers said it this morning...we have plenty of soft forwards. Yes, but Éric could have been the biggest and softest of them all - the Übersoftie. Size does matter.  |
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Jan 30, 2003 13:02:56 GMT -5
Well, I'm very late with my two cents as I just read about the deal in the paper. Anyways, I'm shocked and happy we got a late 2nd for Chouinard as most are right he wasn't going to get a chance here. Basically, the deal is sound but the handling of Eric is what can be questioned if he materializes into a quality NHLer. And at the end of the day that falls in Savard's lap.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 30, 2003 13:32:32 GMT -5
The Flyers farm system is woefully thin in forward depth. Therefore, Chouinard's acquisition is not a bad gamble for Philadelphia. However, the second round price tag seems a bit steep for a player who has, thus far, been a bust everywhere but the QMJHL level. - www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=5602&mode=threaded&order=0 |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 30, 2003 15:53:23 GMT -5
One thing I'll admit is that I am much happier with this kind of trade (getting a good pick) then with Savard's usual tendency to get NHL bodies in every trades...
So there.
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Post by Disp on Jan 30, 2003 17:51:18 GMT -5
I've always gotten the impression that Chouinard was a bigger, softer version of Yanic Perreault, with less drive as well. Good hands and not much else. The guy has done nothing to show that he was worth a 1st rounder, getting a second for him after he's been such a flop is excellent in my opinion.
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Post by Psycorp on Jan 31, 2003 22:47:49 GMT -5
Guys, there was an article about Chouinard on "Le journal de Quebec" by Albert Ladouceur today, it mentionned Chouinard not getting along with his teamates when playing for the Quebec Citadelles, something like using the fact he was a first draft pick to to emphasise his importance. It would seem he even got problems with Therrien at the time (this one was from an unreliable source). Could it be a factor for the fact he was send to Utah and dealt subsequently? i know, i shouldn't bring things like that  |
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 31, 2003 23:21:02 GMT -5
Actually...it's interesting...
I am glad you brought it up...
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