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Post by clear observer on Nov 11, 2003 1:30:54 GMT -5
Much to my dismay, two long-standing members of our HabsRus family have recently taken it upon themselves to stray from the pack and launch two independent sites that brandish the registered name HabsRus. They then ignored both infringement laws as well as our Code of Conduct, not to mention proper netiquette. They followed this up by spamming HabsRus Discussion Board with a "recruiting" post in order to help populate said sites. When this post was promptly removed, and the perpetrators were gently reminded of their respective infractions by this site's administrative body, no apology was made, no retraction was made, the sites remained, and rather, a token offer of; "join us and we'll make you a moderator" was made to add insult to injury. Further correspondence was made in response (with what the HabsRus administration believes to be generous in the extreme) acknowledging the token offer and countering with a proposal which sees myself with "Administrative" powers for both entities. This fell on deaf ears and wasn't even responded to.
Many days have passed that have yet to see a reply to our extremely generous counter-offer.
Regretfully, this has left HabsRus administration no other recourse than to launch legal action and strip the perpetrators of their respective memberships.
A full understanding from our HabsRus community would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely yours,
Spiro Angelatos
Owner
HabsRus.com
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 11, 2003 2:14:41 GMT -5
Hey, I don't mean to intrude into business that doesn't have much to do with me, but I'd just like to say that the name was only used because the sim league was a project that was created for the members of Habsrus, there was no intent by the two involved to take credit for the use of the name, it was merely used because of it's user base, proclaiming their proud membership of Habsrus. I don't think legal actions would have to be taken for a name change to occur, I really hope if this isn't a joke it gets resolved quickly and without any problems. If you're having trouble getting in contact with either of the former members I'd be more than willing to assist you if you were to email me. I'm truly sorry if you've been offended, as I can assure you it was not their intent. Thank you.
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Post by Habsolution on Nov 11, 2003 2:17:45 GMT -5
I'm truly sorry if you've been offended, as I can assure you it was not their intent. Thank you. I second that. |
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Post by clear observer on Nov 11, 2003 10:19:17 GMT -5
Hey, I don't mean to intrude into business that doesn't have much to do with me, but I'd just like to say that the name was only used because the sim league was a project that was created for the members of Habsrus And you know this because.....? Secondly, "projects" as you call them, using copyrighted and registered materials MUST be sanctioned by their rightful owners. It is not only a matter of respect for other people's property and hard work...it is the LAW. there was no intent by the two involved to take credit for the use of the name And you know this because.....? Despite the fact that I strongly considered the contributions the two parties have made to HabsRus, in a court of law, as well as here, "intent" or "perceived intent" is irrelevent. it was merely used because of it's user base, proclaiming their proud membership of Habsrus. I don't think legal actions would have to be taken for a name change to occur You seem to be privvy of alot of their motives and agenda...it's a shame I wasn't despite several attempts at a response. I do agree with you that HabsRus was "used". Others call this "spamming". I really hope if this isn't a joke it gets resolved quickly and without any problems. If you're having trouble getting in contact with either of the former members I'd be more than willing to assist you if you were to email me. I'm truly sorry if you've been offended, as I can assure you it was not their intent. Thank you. Firstly, this isn't a joke. Second...I have had absolutely no problems making contact. Thirdly, I don't need your assurance as to what their intent or agenda is/was...that is/was clear to me.... what I need is a resolution and that, my friend, can only come via correspondense from them. CO |
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Post by Goldthorpe on Nov 11, 2003 11:05:52 GMT -5
Secondly, "projects" as you call them, using copyrighted and registered materials MUST be sanctioned by their rightful owners. It is not only a matter of respect for other people's property and hard work...it is the LAW. You are very right. You may lose your rights on the "habsrus" name if you don't activelly try to enforce it. That's why big corporations routinely enforce their own copyrights over other parties even in the case where the infringement isn't seriously detrimental: if they don't, they may get screwed down the road. In the case of habsrus, I just hope that the matter can be resolved promptly by all concerned parties. If it's only a matter of using the name for a fantasy league, I hope this is something that can be changed quite easily. |
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Post by rtravale on Nov 11, 2003 12:13:38 GMT -5
Which is copyrighted, "HabsRus" or HabsRus.com"? I only ask because it appears by your logo that it is "HabsRus.com" that is the copyrighted material. Also, would the fact that the site had the header "The Unofficial HabsRus..." make it ok? I'm not making an arguement either way, I'm just making an observation. Frankly though, I have not seen anywhere on the site just "HabsRus" with a copyright mark. One other point, and I might be out of line on this one. In the "Code of Conduct" post 2, #10, habsrus.proboards4.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&n=1&thread=4991 you state that "This is your site", not once, but twice. Is it not possible that this could be construed as shared ownership that would also include use of the name? I'm pretty sure that I will be banned for making these statements but I thought these points should be made for the forum population to read. |
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Post by Goldthorpe on Nov 11, 2003 12:25:19 GMT -5
Which is copyrighted, "HabsRus" or HabsRus.com"? I only ask because it appears by your logo that it is "HabsRus.com" that is the copyrighted material. Also, would the fact that the site had the header "The Unofficial HabsRus..." make it ok? I'm not making an arguement either way, I'm just making an observation. Frankly though, I have not seen anywhere on the site just "HabsRus" with a copyright mark. Copyright doesn't have to be "marked", copyright is effective at the time of creation, automatically. Well, at least in the US/Canada. By the way, I'm not a lawyer so don't take my words for cash, but I work in information security so I have a fair deal of experience dealing with these issues. |
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Post by rtravale on Nov 11, 2003 12:31:22 GMT -5
You're probably right Goldthorpe.
One thing though, shouldn't there be a statement clearly posted of said copyright somewhere on the forum? I would think so because anyone can copyright something and not tell anyone, then threaten legal action when said copyright is misused. At least that's my take on it.
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Post by Goldthorpe on Nov 11, 2003 12:58:02 GMT -5
You're probably right Goldthorpe. One thing though, shouldn't there be a statement clearly posted of said copyright somewhere on the forum? I would think so because anyone can copyright something and not tell anyone, then threaten legal action when said copyright is misused. At least that's my take on it. Maybe, I don't know. Being explicit surely never hurt in these kind of situations. I just hope that all this story will not get overblown just because of a stupid name. And frankly Spiro, do you actually make money with the Habsrus name? Enought to justify legal action? My little finger tell me that you're not, and that your reaction has more to do with the fact that you were surprised to find "your" name being used by someone else. I really, really hope that all your guys will manage to find a peaceful solution for something that, with all due respect, shouldn't make you waste your energy on. |
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Post by rtravale on Nov 11, 2003 13:06:43 GMT -5
Maybe, I don't know. Being explicit surely never hurt in these kind of situations. I just hope that all this story will not get overblown just because of a stupid name. And frankly Spiro, do you actually make money with the Habsrus name? Enought to justify legal action? My little finger tell me that you're not, and that your reaction has more to do with the fact that you were surprised to find "your" name being used by someone else. I really, really hope that all your guys will manage to find a peaceful solution for something that, with all due respect, shouldn't make you waste your energy on. Hear Hear! |
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Post by clear observer on Nov 11, 2003 13:15:47 GMT -5
Maybe, I don't know. Being explicit surely never hurt in these kind of situations. I just hope that all this story will not get overblown just because of a stupid name. And frankly Spiro, do you actually make money with the Habsrus name? Enought to justify legal action? My little finger tell me that you're not, and that your reaction has more to do with the fact that you were surprised to find "your" name being used by someone else. I really, really hope that all your guys will manage to find a peaceful solution for something that, with all due respect, shouldn't make you waste your energy on. Whether I gain monetarily is completely irrelevant here. The issues at hand are respect for one's work and property...nothing more. CO |
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Post by Goldthorpe on Nov 11, 2003 13:35:09 GMT -5
Whether I gain monetarily is completely irrelevant here. The issues at hand are respect for one's work and property...nothing more. CO Oh please my friend. Please. It is very relevant as long as we are living in a scarce-resources world. I don't know exactly what your financial status his, but if you can affort the hundreds/thousands of dollars a lawyer will cost you plus the time, the energy and the potential marketing backslash all this affair could cause just so that "one's work and property" get respected, then by all means do it. We're in a free country. But I think you are a pretty inteligent guy, and I'll assume the owners of the offending site are also, so you'll see how futile this would be. Frankly, I really don't understand why the offending site isn't getting the Habsrus name scraped, instead of letting the situation deteriorate for no real reason. I think my participation in this threat has grown out of proportion giving my signifiance in the Habsrus family, so I'm going shut up as for now. |
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Blair320
Rookie
Come on Bob, I need a job!
Posts: 1
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Post by Blair320 on Nov 11, 2003 13:43:21 GMT -5
Bell Centre FAQ www.centrebell.ca/eng/faq/internet.html?smfaq1=yesQ: Can we use the Montreal Canadiens' logo on our website or for other commercial use?A: The Montreal Canadiens logo is a registered trademark and is for the exclusive use of the Montreal Canadiens. Public or commercial use of the logo is prohibited without the written consent of the Club de hockey Canadien.
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Post by Montrealer on Nov 11, 2003 13:50:48 GMT -5
I think some people should think twice and not get in the middle of something they're not a part of. We're visitors to this board and should remember this.
I mean, if you see an argument at a bank branch between a manager and someone else, do you interject?
Now, if you actually know something, or have something concrete to say to CO, go ahead. If not, well, just think twice. Do what you would do if you were in public, not a relatively anonymous member of the board.
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Post by BLONG7 on Nov 11, 2003 13:51:06 GMT -5
what is it with you people? the guy asked that he be made an administrator at first. he didnt ask for blood. the spamming fools and thieves ignored him.what the hell would you do?
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Post by Lord Stanley on Nov 11, 2003 13:53:14 GMT -5
Bell Centre FAQ www.centrebell.ca/eng/faq/internet.html?smfaq1=yesQ: Can we use the Montreal Canadiens' logo on our website or for other commercial use?A: The Montreal Canadiens logo is a registered trademark and is for the exclusive use of the Montreal Canadiens. Public or commercial use of the logo is prohibited without the written consent of the Club de hockey Canadien.
Holy Cow!! And all that time I tought this was an Habs related site...  Blair, how do you know Spiro didn't get a consentment from the Canadiens to use the logo.. Spiro, this thread is turning into a monster..and I think it's a little your fault since I don't think you needed to go public with this..but hey, you're the administrator!! |
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Post by clear observer on Nov 11, 2003 13:56:05 GMT -5
Bell Centre FAQ www.centrebell.ca/eng/faq/internet.html?smfaq1=yesQ: Can we use the Montreal Canadiens' logo on our website or for other commercial use?A: The Montreal Canadiens logo is a registered trademark and is for the exclusive use of the Montreal Canadiens. Public or commercial use of the logo is prohibited without the written consent of the Club de hockey Canadien.
Interesting that you make that assumption. That I do not have "written consent". That I do not pay royalties. CO |
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Post by rtravale on Nov 11, 2003 14:08:49 GMT -5
Interesting that you make that assumption. That I do not have "written consent". That I do not pay royalties. CO That reply is a bit ambiguous. I'm still interested to know where it is stated on this forum that you have the copyright on the HabsRus name. Oh, and Montrealer, the minute Spiro posted this for all to see, it became everyone's business. |
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Post by BLONG7 on Nov 11, 2003 14:15:22 GMT -5
That reply is a bit ambiguous. I'm still interested to know where it is stated on this forum that you have the copyright on the HabsRus name. Oh, and Montrealer, the minute Spiro posted this for all to see, it became everyone's business. Where does he say that it is copyrighted? Nowehere in his letter? his letter just says that he has been infringed upon and I agree that he has. these clowns showed disrespect to this forum by ignoring its rules and spamming for visitors to their site. spin it anyway you like but the victim here is pretty damn obvious. I also think its no coincedence that you sir are a member of that other site. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 11, 2003 14:15:38 GMT -5
I'll tell you this one thing fellow posters. I am a moderator but I am a community member of HABSRUS above all and I've been one since day 1 of the site creation. Through the years, Spiro often had to jump through hoops and bend outa shape to insure that we all have this fun place to come to and talk about our common passion. Spiro dug from his own pocket when he had to and invested a huge deal of his time for us without ever asking for anything in return, aside from the fact that we always show respect for each other when we come about.
Spiro should be commanded by all of us for his effort and dedication to maintain our community not questioned and criticized.
I strongly hope that those who chose to get in the middle of a situation they know nothing about will take a step back at this point and promptly move to the sideline where they should have stayed.
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Post by Goldthorpe on Nov 11, 2003 14:25:54 GMT -5
I think some people should think twice and not get in the middle of something they're not a part of. We're visitors to this board and should remember this. Now, if you actually know something, or have something concrete to say to CO, go ahead. If not, well, just think twice. Do what you would do if you were in public, not a relatively anonymous member of the board. I'll assume this is directed towards me. Frankly, this is kind of amusing. Are you claiming that only "well known" posters should express their opinions on habrus? Don't you think this is conterproductive considering our goals as a community? If the issue was the be dealt only by moderators, then why is this thread posted on a public forum? And what do you mean by"thinking twice"? Is this some kind of empty, childish threat? What am I risking? I mean, will I get banned because I somehow have a different opinion than the site owner? That I don't agree with his strategy? I'm pretty sure Spiro will do whatever he wants to with his site and the involved copyrights. I'm not the one who will stop him. Well, if you happens to have professional experience in managers and banking, and that one of the party actually goes public with the disagreement, why not? Jeez. I was just trying to be helpful. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 11, 2003 14:26:47 GMT -5
That reply is a bit ambiguous. I'm still interested to know where it is stated on this forum that you have the copyright on the HabsRus name. Oh, and Montrealer, the minute Spiro posted this for all to see, it became everyone's business. Using other people's brand name without consent and ignoring multiple warnings about doing so is not right and I don't need to be presented with a text of law to understand that. |
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Post by rtravale on Nov 11, 2003 14:28:06 GMT -5
Where does he say that it is copyrighted? Nowehere in his letter? his letter just says that he has been infringed upon and I agree that he has. these clowns showed disrespect to this forum by ignoring its rules and spamming for visitors to their site. spin it anyway you like but the victim here is pretty drats obvious. I also think its no coincedence that you sir are a member of that other site. In post 4 of this thread. |
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Post by BLONG7 on Nov 11, 2003 14:32:48 GMT -5
In post 4 of this thread. How do you know hes refering to his copyrighted material and not other materials from that site like the logo that belongs to the memorabilia site? you got something against CO or something? why are you trying to spin it against him? |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 11, 2003 14:36:27 GMT -5
I was just trying to be helpful. You should really leave it at that then. By think twice Montrealer could have meant that maybe, perharps the fact that Spiro had the decency to tell all of us about what he felt was an important board matter might not have been an invition to take sides... |
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Post by legaspesien on Nov 11, 2003 14:37:14 GMT -5
I don't understand why a mod don't close this thread and transfer it to "NON HOCKEY STUFF"
And please cool it...I am almost shure that no ones had any bad intention in doing so
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Post by Montrealer on Nov 11, 2003 14:39:15 GMT -5
I'll assume this is directed towards me. Not specifically. I never said that. I only said that all of us (including me) shouldn't get in the middle of something we don't know about. He's explaining what happened so we don't sit there wondering what the heck happened. It's not exactly as if we wouldn't have noticed MPLABBE (guest) all over the place. It's not a threat, and I don't think it's childish. Thinking twice is something I advocate everyone do, in their public life and their private life. I was not insuating anything, nor was I saying you risk anything. Nor am I a moderator, so how effective would a threat by me on someone else's board be? I think you're being awful defensive over a simple piece of advice. I agree. It's his site, and none of us have any more say than a guest in his house would have in his household. Well, I happen to be a person who believes that people should only get involved if they have some sort of personal interest; regardless of the public nature of part of the argument. I guess I'm old-fashioned that way. |
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Post by clear observer on Nov 11, 2003 14:40:02 GMT -5
In post 4 of this thread. I was speaking in general terms. However, if you must know, www.canadiensmemorabilia.com/ forwarded a polite letter asking me to cease using a fragment of their logo...of course I have not been using their logo....they were mistakingly refering to the offending site that I am refering to. CO |
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Post by Goldthorpe on Nov 11, 2003 14:43:30 GMT -5
I think you're being awful defensive over a simple piece of advice. That's fine Montrealer, I'm sorry for interpreting your post the wrong way. I'll take your advice and leave this thread. And anyway, my boss wouldn't be happy with me wasting my time here during working hours ;-) Keep your stick on the ice. |
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Post by The Habsome One on Nov 11, 2003 14:48:05 GMT -5
I'm still interested to know where it is stated on this forum that you have the copyright on the HabsRus name. It doesn't need to be stated anywhere. Although usually much more difficult to enforce when not registered, anything is copyrighted the second it is published--whether in a newspaper or even on a personal website. No joke, this entire paragraph is even copyrighted with its rights owned by its creator (i.e. me). |
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