J. Trudeau To Run For Fed. Liberals in Papineau

[CentreHice]

Just announced today.

Trudeau-mania II???

[Disgruntled70sHab]

It'll take a lot more than Justin Trudeau for the Grits to get my vote back.

Cheers.

[Skilly]

I didnt like the first Trudeau ... so the second .. Bleah!! still leaves as bad a taste as the original. Reminds me a Buckley's Mixture, but it doesn't work!

[franko]

You, sir, are no PET

Pierre earned his way. Justin is a media darling [and creation]

[princelh]

Using his fathers name to get elected. It won't matter, Harper is going to steamroll the Liberals in the next federal election. Justin is lining up his ducks to take on the leadership of the Liberal party, when Dion self destructs in the next election.

[Cranky]

franko said:

You, sir, are no PET

Pierre earned his way. Justin is a media darling [and creation]

A man with clear vision.

[CentreHice]

princelh said:

Using his fathers name to get elected. It won't matter, Harper is going to steamroll the Liberals in the next federal election. Justin is lining up his ducks to take on the leadership of the Liberal party, when Dion self destructs in the next election.

He's certainly paving the way with all those U.S.-style attack ads in non-election context. Phase I.

Phase II. Create a situation in which the oppositon has no choice but to call non-confidence.

Phase III. Election....and hope that the ads worked (and that the voters aren't smart enough to catch on to the political tactics).

I don't care if it's the PCs, Libs, or NDPs.....it's a transparent move for majority....at the expense of the taxpayers....(not the ads...the election process.)

Let's not forget Stephen Harper's political evolution.

From Wikipedia:

One of the founding members of the Reform Party, Harper ended his first stint as an MP to join, and shortly thereafter head, the National Citizens Coalition. In 2002, Stephen Harper succeeded Stockwell Day as leader of the Canadian Alliance and returned to Parliament as Leader of the Opposition. In 2003, he successfully reached an agreement with Progressive Conservative leader Peter MacKay to merge the Canadian Alliance with the Progressive Conservative Party to form the Conservative Party of Canada. The merger was overwhelmingly approved by both memberships. He was elected as the party's first non-interim leader in March 2004.

It was a marketing move, plain and simple, to get that "Conservative" branding back.
Supporters will say that Mulroney had ruined the term "conservative" and that it was necessary to go through this process to get the party back on track.

Fair enough.

But it's all about the marketing. Because these ads prove that nothing is new.

[franko]

centrehice said:

He's certainly paving the way with all those U.S.-style attack ads in non-election context.

Election....and hope that the ads worked (and that the voters aren't smart enough to catch on to the political tactics).

I don't care if it's the PCs, Libs, or NDPs.....it's a transparent move for majority....at the expense of the taxpayers....(not the ads...the election process.)

these ads prove that nothing is new.

An interesting article from a Liberal:

Finding their mark: . . . so-called 'attack ads' work

Warren Kinsella, National Post
Published: Thursday, February 22, 2007

Given that I wrote a 2001 book whose thesis was that political "attack ads" work, you will forgive me for telling you that, generally, political attack ads work.

Specifically, they have worked against Stephane Dion's Liberals. Since the Conservative party launched its three-weeklong anti-Dion advertising barrage on Jan. 28, the Liberals have become slightly less popular, and the Conservatives slightly more popular.

The Tories are still far from their longed-for majority, of course; just as the Grits are far from a 1984-style electoral rout. The current Tory lead is all within the margin of error, and all of that kind of stuff. But did the Conservatives render the environmental issue less of a clear-cut winner for the Liberals? Did the Conservative ads move what those of us in the highly scientific political-consultancy business call "the needle?" They certainly did. The needle has moved, and far enough to suggest that an election is just weeks away, too.

Alleged political-attack ads -- I call them "alleged" because I don't think that criticizing the public record of one's opponent can be characterized as an "attack" -- are effective. That is why political parties keep making them. Yes, yes, yes: I know. The public insist that they do not like them, and they are not influenced by them.

But as I have observed here before, people always say they hate it when newspapers run photographs of car crashes, too. And then, when they're near a car crash, the same folks slow down to take a good look. All of them.

The commentariat was in high dudgeon when the Tories launched their ads, just as they were when the Grits launched their anti-Tory ads near the tail end of the last federal election campaign. Happens every time.

On the night that the ads rolled out, deputy Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff said what one would reasonably expect a deputy Liberal leader to say. He said they'd backfire, and added: "You got to be pretty desperate to be doing attack ads." Ignatieff and other Liberal talking heads had no choice: You can hardly expect them to welcome the ad campaign. But what of the experts? It is pretty funny to read some of their words, too.

Pollster Allan Gregg, who teamed up with the current Ontario Conservative leader to create the appallingly dumb 1993 ads that were seen as mocking Jean Chretien's facial paralysis, said this to CTV: "Having been the architect of many negative ads myself, I mean I actually have some serious misgiving. I think they damage the political system significantly." With a straight face, he said that.

The first pundit to weigh in with a wildly inaccurate analysis was the Ottawa Citizen's Susan Riley: "The attack ads released yesterday by the Tories are so puerile, so transparently motivated by political panic, you wonder why someone with better judgment didn't intervene." Sniffed the Winnipeg Free Press editorial board: "Very old-timey, very risky." Uh-huh.

The Toronto Star's editorialists declared that it was "unprecedented as well as bizarre," when it was neither. At the Calgary Herald, the paper's opinion-setters were quite miffed about it all, stating that people should feel "soiled" by the ads. Up in Edmonton, the Journal's board hollered that it was "a very insecure, unconfident, petulant thing to do." Yawn.

As they always do, "experts" got in on the act. Carleton University professor, Paul Attallah, said the ads had whipped up a "backlash." (When they hadn't, except amongeditorial boards.)Bernie Gauthier, at Delta Media, told CanWest the ads wouldn't make much of a difference. Decima's top pollster, Bruce Anderson, said: "The public has become more and more fatigued with excessively partisan politics. There is a greater risk of a backlash." A search party has been sent out to locate "the backlash," but --at press time --it had yet to return. Funny, that.

The Globe and Mail's Jeffrey Simpson was one of the more prominent members of the pundictocracy to sound a dissenting note. Simpson predicted the Conservative TV spots would do the trick: "A loud cluck-clucking sound always accompanies the appearance of attack ads ? Except that evidence overwhelmingly shows that attack ads work."

They do work. There are therefore two things left to do.

One, a public moratorium on pious (and dishonest) carping about "attack ads." Tough, factual critiques of the public record of someone seeking high public office don't undermine democracy, folks: They're part of democracy.

Two, the Liberals need to stop kvetching and start fighting back. Go see your bankers, Grits, and get a line of credit to run a few tough, factual televised critiques of the Conservatives' record.

And you know what? They'll work. And there's nothing "alleged" about that, either.

© National Post 2007

[Cranky]

Wait until the Conservatives launch the anit-Justin campaign. "A Great mans shoe-in" or "Justin is no Pierre"....

Sonny boy has proven nothing other then riding his fathers name.

[princelh]

What next? Ben Mulroney for the Tories?

[jkr]

princelh said:

What next? Ben Mulroney for the Tories?

At least he's trying to do something constructive. It's better than fawning over celebrities in Hollywood.

[jkr]

franko said:

You, sir, are no PET

Pierre earned his way. Justin is a media darling [and creation]

Not sure what you mean here. Just what have the media created? His father was very media savvy. Is there anything really wrong with that?

And he wouldn't be the first child of a prominent politician to use his name for electoral purposes.

[PTH]

habsaddict said:

franko said:

You, sir, are no PET

Pierre earned his way. Justin is a media darling [and creation]

A man with clear vision.

Clear vision ?

PET was a gutless puke and I'm very happy the bastard's dead.

Justin seems to be a kid who's living on his father's coat-tails - he's got the name and just needs to quote his father often and he'll be exactly what the Liberals want.

[CentreHice]

pth said:

habsaddict said:

A man with clear vision.

Clear vision ?

PET was a gutless puke and I'm very happy the bastard's dead.

Justin seems to be a kid who's living on his father's coat-tails - he's got the name and just needs to quote his father often and he'll be exactly what the Liberals want.

Yeah....but how do you really feel....

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

centrehice said:

pth said:

Clear vision ?

PET was a gutless puke and I'm very happy the bastard's dead.

Justin seems to be a kid who's living on his father's coat-tails - he's got the name and just needs to quote his father often and he'll be exactly what the Liberals want.

Yeah....but how do you really feel....

Let me interject (as if you could stop me).

Enough lollygagging and tongue-wagging, let Québec go its own way. I mean really, when was the last time you saw it covered by CNN? Have they announced or made any important trade agreements with either China or India?

Time to stop looking back and move ahead. Bonjour la visite is so easy to say. Let their children and their children's children assume the economic responsibility and burden of independence. Let's see what the levesque ends up being pegged at against the Euro, the US dollar, and the Royal Canadian Mint Let's put an end to recess and playtime and graduate into the real world. ANNEX NOW!

[jkr]

pth said:

habsaddict said:

A man with clear vision.

Clear vision ?

PET was a gutless puke and I'm very happy the bastard's dead.

I think these comments are really out of line & completely inappropriate, especially considering the general tone & demeanor that the moderators try to maintain here.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

jkr said:

pth said:

Clear vision ?

PET was a gutless puke and I'm very happy the bastard's dead.

I think these comments are really out of line & completely inappropriate, especially considering the general tone & demeanor that the moderators try to maintain here.

We do make exceptions for preferred clients from time-to-time (ourselves excluded as much as possible of course).

Blather, after all, is the blarney of this board. So give it your best and hope it sticks, else watch it slide...

[PTH]

mrbozo said:

centrehice said:

Yeah....but how do you really feel....

Let me interject (as if you could stop me).

Enough lollygagging and tongue-wagging, let Québec go its own way. I mean really, when was the last time you saw it covered by CNN? Have they announced or made any important trade agreements with either China or India?

Time to stop looking back and move ahead. Bonjour la visite is so easy to say. Let their children and their children's children assume the economic responsibility and burden of independence. Let's see what the levesque ends up being pegged at against the Euro, the US dollar, and the Royal Canadian Mint Let's put an end to recess and playtime and graduate into the real world. ANNEX NOW!

It's not Trudeau's vision of Canada vs Quebec's independance - in many ways, the reason I'm annoyed at Trudeau is because it's put the country in an awful situation where Quebec is either forced to live in a status quo that many people in Quebec dislike, or independance.

Trudeau's vision has killed attempts like Meech Lake that could and really should've worked, and really has forced a debate with no more middle ground.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

pth said:

mrbozo said:

Let me interject (as if you could stop me).

Enough lollygagging and tongue-wagging, let Québec go its own way. I mean really, when was the last time you saw it covered by CNN? Have they announced or made any important trade agreements with either China or India?

Time to stop looking back and move ahead. Bonjour la visite is so easy to say. Let their children and their children's children assume the economic responsibility and burden of independence. Let's see what the levesque ends up being pegged at against the Euro, the US dollar, and the Royal Canadian Mint Let's put an end to recess and playtime and graduate into the real world. ANNEX NOW!

It's not Trudeau's vision of Canada vs Quebec's independance - in many ways, the reason I'm annoyed at Trudeau is because it's put the country in an awful situation where Quebec is either forced to live in a status quo that many people in Quebec dislike, or independance.

Trudeau's vision has killed attempts like Meech Lake that could and really should've worked, and really has forced a debate with no more middle ground.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure that we'll talk about this and the broader issues again

[CentreHice]

What's really important is that women think Justin is HOT!

[princelh]

Shows how shallow some Canadians are, if they vote for this Pretty Boy with a silver spoon in his ass!

[jkr]

princelh said:

Shows how shallow some Canadians are, if they vote for this Pretty Boy with a silver spoon in his ass!

You make it sound as if this were the first wealthy son/daughter of a well known politician to run for office. It's just as shallow to base your opinions on a person's surname.

I like to hear what someone has to say before making assumptions.

[franko]

jkr said:

princelh said:

I like to hear what someone has to say before making assumptions.

Agree. I'm waiting . . . but I don't expect much other than the party line (and perhaps "My Dad always said . . . "). I'm probably too cynical. Ottawa tends to do that to a person.

I think he's a shoe-in to the riding and to the seat. Before slamming him (which I admit I've already done) let's see how he does and see if he has any new ideas. Let him involve himself in the party rather than high-profile activities.

[Toronthab]

jkr said:

pth said:

Clear vision ?

PET was a gutless puke and I'm very happy the bastard's dead.

I think these comments are really out of line & completely inappropriate, especially considering the general tone & demeanor that the moderators try to maintain here.

It might be a lot more amusing if he tried to back them up with a fact or two. Gutless? Puke?

Pierre Trudeau?! He had more balls than any five or six people I can think of in Canadian history, with the possible exception of Louis St. Laurent. The quintessential Canadian and a man, very much a man.

[franko]

PET's legacy:

1. Gunslinger pose: just watch me. War Measures Act, suspension of civil liberties, goes into Quebec and routs the "bad guys". [if a Conservative government had done that you'd be vilifying them] Alienated Quebec.

2. Campaigns against Stanfield; ridicules the Conservative stand on a policy of Wage and Price Controls to hold place for 90 days. After he is elected imposes -- you guessed it -- the dreaded 6 and 5/Wage and Price Controls for three years. Alienated the public service and trade unionists [HA will say "not necessarily a bad thing]

3. Campaigns against Clark (who I never liked, btw) and the 18¢ / gallon excise tax. After he is elected he imposes the National Energy Program. Alienated Alberta.

4. Pirouettes behind the Queen. Alienates monarchists. Visits the Queen. Alienates republicans (small “R”).

5. Brings the Charter home with 9 only premiers' signatures. Alienates Quebec again.

6. Brought Canada's federal deficit from zero in 1968 to $38 billion by the time he left office in 1984. Instituted a policy which encouraged higher unemployment. He succeeded -- in December 1982 the jobless rate was 12.9%. [a legacy he left the Tories to deal with, and a financial nightmare that they continued to "build upon" -- we are still paying for Trudeau and Mulroney's fiscal irresponsibilities).

Trudeau had some great ideas. He had charisma. Heck, I voted for him every election (and do you know how hard it is to live in Alberta and have people know you voted Liberal? To them, Trudeau was the anti-Christ!).

He may have had vision but like every politician his vision only led him as far as the next election. I disagree with your assessment that he was the quintessential Canadian. More like the quintessential Liberal. You know how our 3-(main)-party system works in Canada, don't you (putting aside the Bloc as a one-province party, and the Greens who are fringe and will remain fringe until half of them merge with the NDP and the other half with the Conservatives):

The NDP sits on the left, presenting ideas that appease certain portions of the population, but never enough to form a government.

The Conservatives sit on the right, presenting ideas that appease certain portions of the population, and depending on the shifting winds, garner enough votes to occasionally form a government.

The Liberals sit in the middle, sniffing the air to detect which way the winds are blowing and the sands are shifting, and moving in that direction, gathering ideas from the other parties and presenting them as their own. Martin was mocked for governing by popular opinion or by poll, but that is the Liberal mode d’ operandi.

[Toronthab]

franko said:

PET's legacy:

1. Gunslinger pose: just watch me. War Measures Act, suspension of civil liberties, goes into Quebec and routs the "bad guys". [if a Conservative government had done that you'd be vilifying them] Alienated Quebec.

2. Campaigns against Stanfield; ridicules the Conservative stand on a policy of Wage and Price Controls to hold place for 90 days. After he is elected imposes -- you guessed it -- the dreaded 6 and 5/Wage and Price Controls for three years. Alienated the public service and trade unionists [HA will say "not necessarily a bad thing]

3. Campaigns against Clark (who I never liked, btw) and the 18¢ / gallon excise tax. After he is elected he imposes the National Energy Program. Alienated Alberta.

4. Pirouettes behind the Queen. Alienates monarchists. Visits the Queen. Alienates republicans (small “R”).

5. Brings the Charter home with 9 only premiers' signatures. Alienates Quebec again.

6. Brought Canada's federal deficit from zero in 1968 to $38 billion by the time he left office in 1984. Instituted a policy which encouraged higher unemployment. He succeeded -- in December 1982 the jobless rate was 12.9%. [a legacy he left the Tories to deal with, and a financial nightmare that they continued to "build upon" -- we are still paying for Trudeau and Mulroney's fiscal irresponsibilities).

Trudeau had some great ideas. He had charisma. Heck, I voted for him every election (and do you know how hard it is to live in Alberta and have people know you voted Liberal? To them, Trudeau was the anti-Christ!).

He may have had vision but like every politician his vision only led him as far as the next election. I disagree with your assessment that he was the quintessential Canadian. More like the quintessential Liberal. You know how our 3-(main)-party system works in Canada, don't you (putting aside the Bloc as a one-province party, and the Greens who are fringe and will remain fringe until half of them merge with the NDP and the other half with the Conservatives):

The NDP sits on the left, presenting ideas that appease certain portions of the population, but never enough to form a government.

The Conservatives sit on the right, presenting ideas that appease certain portions of the population, and depending on the shifting winds, garner enough votes to occasionally form a government.

The Liberals sit in the middle, sniffing the air to detect which way the winds are blowing and the sands are shifting, and moving in that direction, gathering ideas from the other parties and presenting them as their own. Martin was mocked for governing by popular opinion or by poll, but that is the Liberal mode d’ operandi.

You voted for Trudeau!? Good for you. He was terrific, inspiring, even if he opened some very bad doors, along with his many legitimate achievements.

[Toronthab]

centrehice said:

princelh said:

Using his fathers name to get elected. It won't matter, Harper is going to steamroll the Liberals in the next federal election. Justin is lining up his ducks to take on the leadership of the Liberal party, when Dion self destructs in the next election.

He's certainly paving the way with all those U.S.-style attack ads in non-election context. Phase I.

Phase II. Create a situation in which the oppositon has no choice but to call non-confidence.

Phase III. Election....and hope that the ads worked (and that the voters aren't smart enough to catch on to the political tactics).

I don't care if it's the PCs, Libs, or NDPs.....it's a transparent move for majority....at the expense of the taxpayers....(not the ads...the election process.)

Let's not forget Stephen Harper's political evolution.

From Wikipedia:

One of the founding members of the Reform Party, Harper ended his first stint as an MP to join, and shortly thereafter head, the National Citizens Coalition. In 2002, Stephen Harper succeeded Stockwell Day as leader of the Canadian Alliance and returned to Parliament as Leader of the Opposition. In 2003, he successfully reached an agreement with Progressive Conservative leader Peter MacKay to merge the Canadian Alliance with the Progressive Conservative Party to form the Conservative Party of Canada. The merger was overwhelmingly approved by both memberships. He was elected as the party's first non-interim leader in March 2004.

It was a marketing move, plain and simple, to get that "Conservative" branding back.
Supporters will say that Mulroney had ruined the term "conservative" and that it was necessary to go through this process to get the party back on track.

Fair enough.

But it's all about the marketing. Because these ads prove that nothing is new.

They are a weird insular group, hidebound and selfish. Consrvatism in the states and here, has always been about trying to make selfishness appear virtuous.

And the Liberals while generally much more acceptable to me, as they actually try to serve Canadians and not just "taxpayers" have adopted a couple grossly inadequate positions.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

I'll gladly trade you Hillary and Barak for Justin, and i know nothing about him. The very term Liberal makes him an unattractive candidate.
He'd clear waivers with no takers in the OC.

[franko]

toronthab said:

And the Liberals while generally much more acceptable to me, as they actually try to serve Canadians and not just "taxpayers"

Take 'em off, son, take 'em off . . . the Liberals are a political party and have only one purpose: to get in and then to retain power. They are no different than any other party.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

The difference between the two parties is extreme. One side kisses Bush's butt, while the other side slings mud at him. There's no real middle ground.

However, Canada's international reputation has improved since this Tory government took over. They're very proactive in helping Canadians who are in trouble abroad. The Grits exercised, "quiet diplomacy" which basically amounted to, "... we'll help you when we have time."

Haven't forgiven the Grits for ADSCAM either. That's going to take time.

Cheers.