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Post by CentreHice on Sept 18, 2008 12:09:00 GMT -5
I attended a fund-raising meeting the other day at a Portuguese hall.
The president of the club (born in Canada, in his mid-30s) kept saying things like:
"We have to make sure we attract the Portuguese community.....but, we want as many Canadians here as possible too."
He made that distinction several times, and I was left thinking, "Don't you consider yourself a Canadian?"
Is that a widespread sentiment among our multi-cultural mosaic? Why not say, "We want as many non-Portuguese, or people from other cultures, too."?
I'm all for maintaining everyone's culture and heritage....but I felt as if I was visiting Portugal, in which case the statement would have been understandable.
I would assume it has something to do with the length of time a culture has been in Canada. My family is of British and French descent....so I've never considered myself anything but Canadian.
Perhaps that's why we have problems putting our finger on the "Canadian Identity".
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Post by Skilly on Sept 18, 2008 12:55:48 GMT -5
I understand the portugese gentleman.... I am a Newfoundlander and Labradorian first, a Canadian second.
The problem with the "Canadian Identity" is that Uncle Ottawa wants to define it every chance he gets. He pits one culture against the other (Que vs NL), he doesn't treat each culture the same (ask the Chinese/Japanese). Canada is essentially 4 little countries in one ... if I had my way there would only be three.
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Post by The New Guy on Sept 18, 2008 13:27:35 GMT -5
Skilly's got it right, although I'd probably say there's more than four little countries.
There's Newfoundland. There's Cape Breton. There's the Maritimes. There's the Acadians. There's the Quebecois. There's the Melting Pot (Southern Ontario). There's the rest of Ontario (which sometimes falls under Western Canada, sometimes under Quebecois and sometimes on their own). There's Western Canada. And there's BC.
And I haven't even begun to mention the various and sundry indigenous peoples.
You could even further subdivide it into smaller sub-cultures. Skilly, living out in Logy Bay, is a townie (whether he admits it or not is another story). Being from slightly further afield, I am a bayman. And let me tell you - you don't want to hang around those townies. Nothing but trouble. And different baymen from different places sound and act differently. Listen to someone from Holyrood, from Baie de Verde and from Grand Bank and tell me if you think they could carry on a conversation with each other and understand it all.
It's the nature of the mosaic. People tend to keep to their cultural identity a lot stronger. Ask any Quebecois what he is first - a Canadian or a Quebecois and you will probably not be surprised by the answer. But ask anyone from Newfoundland and you'll get a similar answer - I'm a Newfoundlander. I can tell you more about how Newfoundland joined Confederation in 1949 than I can about how Canada was formed in 1867. I can name all the Premiers of Newfoundland, but not all the Prime Ministers of Canada (to be fair, it's a smaller list as it's a lot less time and a lot of it is Joey). I know much, much more about the Blue Puttees and Beaumont Hamel and the Dardanelles then I can tell you about Ypres or Dieppe. And I can sing all four versus of the Ode, but I have trouble with O! Canada in French. Is that wrong? I don't think so. But others might disagree.
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Post by clear observer on Sept 18, 2008 14:25:40 GMT -5
I attended a fund-raising meeting the other day at a Portuguese hall. The president of the club (born in Canada, in his mid-30s) kept saying things like: "We have to make sure we attract the Portuguese community.....but, we want as many Canadians here as possible too." He made that distinction several times, and I was left thinking, "Don't you consider yourself a Canadian?" Is that a widespread sentiment among our multi-cultural mosaic? Why not say, "We want as many non-Portuguese, or people from other cultures, too."? I'm all for maintaining everyone's culture and heritage....but I felt as if I was visiting Portugal, in which case the statement would have been understandable. I would assume it has something to do with the length of time a culture has been in Canada. My family is of British and French descent....so I've never considered myself anything but Canadian. Perhaps that's why we have problems putting our finger on the "Canadian Identity". Although born ( Ottawa ) here, I've always refered to myself as "Greek-Canadian". Cultural mosaic, indeed. |
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Post by franko on Sept 18, 2008 15:18:52 GMT -5
Hmmm . . . although born to Quebec[ois] parents of a sort [paternal history dates back to 1600s in Canada and Acadian; maternal second generation Quebec] I've always referred to myself as "Canadian" -- probably since I moved around so much and left Quebec when I was 9 [moving west before official bilingualism meant I quickly anglicized my name -- and nature?]
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 18, 2008 19:02:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess this part of the human condition has been around since emigration/immigration first occurred....and it exists throughout the world.
I just find it very interesting.
It's when people feel/act "superior" because of their heritage/language/culture/religion/region that the problems begin.
And I didn't get that sense at all at the meeting.
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 18, 2008 21:57:16 GMT -5
I'm Canadian. Not English-Canadian, not German-Canadian, not anything like that. Canadian.
(I'm actually American by birth, but I consider myself Canadian in my identity)
I personally think that if you want to be Greek (or Italian, or whatever) go to Greece (or Italy, or whatever). I don't mind that people bring their culture with them, in fact I endorse it. Everyone's welcome here. I just think it's a slap in the face to our forefathers and the rest of Canadians that it's not good enough to be just "Canadian."
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Post by MC Habber on Sept 19, 2008 0:21:57 GMT -5
I'm Canadian. Not English-Canadian, not German-Canadian, not anything like that. Canadian. (I'm actually American by birth, but I consider myself Canadian in my identity)I personally think that if you want to be Greek (or Italian, or whatever) go to Greece (or Italy, or whatever). I don't mind that people bring their culture with them, in fact I endorse it. Everyone's welcome here. I just think it's a slap in the face to our forefathers and the rest of Canadians that it's not good enough to be just "Canadian." I think that's a pretty narrow way of looking at it. Just because someone holds on to their heritage doesn't mean they are insulting anyone. I don't think anyone is saying it's "not good enough to be just Canadian", just that they aren't only Canadian. If you moved to, say, Germany, would you stop considering yoruself Canadian? But I'm not a fan of nationalism anyway. |
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 19, 2008 1:05:32 GMT -5
I'm Canadian. Not English-Canadian, not German-Canadian, not anything like that. Canadian. (I'm actually American by birth, but I consider myself Canadian in my identity)I personally think that if you want to be Greek (or Italian, or whatever) go to Greece (or Italy, or whatever). I don't mind that people bring their culture with them, in fact I endorse it. Everyone's welcome here. I just think it's a slap in the face to our forefathers and the rest of Canadians that it's not good enough to be just "Canadian." I think that's a pretty narrow way of looking at it. Just because someone holds on to their heritage doesn't mean they are insulting anyone. I don't think anyone is saying it's "not good enough to be just Canadian", just that they aren't only Canadian. If you moved to, say, Germany, would you stop considering yoruself Canadian? No, but I wouldn't call myself German, either. Just like I don't call myself American-Canadian, or Canadian-English, or .... I don't think the distinction is necessary. Canada is a country of numerous ethnicities and backgrounds. It's not so much about nationalism and "rah rah Canada" as it is that people don't identify with Canada enough to refer to themselves as Canadian. Maybe it's our collective attitudes toward different cultures or perhaps it's what's been suggested above that Canada lacks identity, but in a country as big and diverse as Canada I wouldn't think that so many people would feel excluded. And it's not so much the Italian-Canadians that I find odd, it's those that refer to themselves just as "Italian" or "Portuguese" or another nationality which happens far more frequently than even those who hyphenate their cultural identity. I mean, I'm a 7th generation Canadian on both paternal and maternal sides. I likely have a biased view of the matter, but my buddy who's like 25% Italian and his family's been here for 2 generations.. He's not Italian-Canadian as he refers to himself. |
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Post by MC Habber on Sept 19, 2008 2:04:25 GMT -5
I think that's a pretty narrow way of looking at it. Just because someone holds on to their heritage doesn't mean they are insulting anyone. I don't think anyone is saying it's "not good enough to be just Canadian", just that they aren't only Canadian. If you moved to, say, Germany, would you stop considering yoruself Canadian? No, but I wouldn't call myself German, either. Isn't it conceivable that your kids would then identify themselves as Canadians, even if they were born in Germany? Would that be an insult to Germans? I don't think the distinction is necessary. Canada is a country of numerous ethnicities and backgrounds. Isn't that a bit like saying that it's enough to call yourself a university student, you don't need to specify your major? The distinctions presumably do matter to those who make them, or they serve a practical purpose. I would imagine that when they travel outside of canada, most identify themselves as Canadian. I understand the arguments that society is better off when everyone feels like they are part of the same group, but I don't know how realistic that is in a multicultural society. At any rate, I don't find the use of terms like Canadian and Italian as described here to be offensive. I think it's an unnecessary source of tension when people get upset about things like this. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 19, 2008 5:34:26 GMT -5
I've got Micmac, Irish and French in my blood.
The fact I've lived in Ontario for most of my life might be offensive to some, but I consider myself Canadian even though I like Guinness Stout and KilKenny beer.
My wife is of Polish, Russian, German descent. She considers herself Canadian as well.
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Sept 19, 2008 6:03:08 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, my father-in-law came from Germany in 1958 and became a citizen when he could. Ask him; he was Canadian. Sure he had the ethnic background [and strong accent] but ask him where he was from and he'd tell you the town in Alberta where he lived.
My wife: Canadian, and he made sure she knew it. German background, but Canadian.
No problem with people holding to their roots -- its what makes us what we are -- a collective of immigrants -- but for how many generations do we point back to / hold on to where we were from [especially those who have never been there}?
I guess, though, that we are a mosaic and not a melting pot.
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Post by Polarice on Sept 19, 2008 6:22:25 GMT -5
I'm what you'd call a mutt....I have Scottish, Irish, English, Belgian and lord know what else.  I also wear a kilt on occasion, but I consider myself Canadian, first and foremost. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Sept 19, 2008 6:57:25 GMT -5
I'm a Quebecois who's country happens to be in what I feel is an outdated Federation concept called Canada. If I'd move to another country, I'd consider myself a Quebecois nonetheless.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 19, 2008 7:01:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess this part of the human condition has been around since emigration/immigration first occurred....and it exists throughout the world. I just find it very interesting. It's when people feel/act "superior" because of their heritage/language/culture/religion/region that the problems begin. And I didn't get that sense at all at the meeting. When I was growing up in Ottawa's west end, there was a neighbourhood restaurant called "Rassis." They were a Lebanese family that kept their eatery open for 23 years before they decided to move on. The youngest of the brothers was a good friend of mine and when I asked him where he was from he said without hesitation, "Hochelaga." It's a district in Montreal. They had very thick accents and every so often some 'true-blooded Canadian' would get drunk in their establishment and start waiving the flag in their faces. But in the end, the Rassi boys considered themselves Canadians with Lebanese roots regardless who thought otherwise. Cheers. |
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 19, 2008 8:37:45 GMT -5
It's all got to do with time-span and how adamantly heritage is or isn't instilled by parents/community. Let's face it, all learning is a form of brain-washing/programming....and if you're born in Country X and are taught by the most influential people in your life to be proud of your roots in Country Y....that's what you're going to feel. And there's nothing wrong with that....as long as you don't feel superior because of it. I would think that most emigration/immigration occurs to find opportunity/a better life for yourself and future generations. And the country as we know it today was built on the backs of immigration. Certainly, our generous social systems are a major magnet right now. Because of how I was raised (thinking "Canadian") I've never fully understood how one cannot feel any loyalty to a country/system that has a. attracted you, and b. provides so much if you're willing to work for it (and even if you're not willing, nowadays.) But that's a different topic, isn't it?  |
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Post by clear observer on Sept 19, 2008 12:45:44 GMT -5
I personally think that if you want to be Greek (or Italian, or whatever) go to Greece (or Italy, or whatever). Hmmm...I don't "want" to be Greek...I "AM" Greek....something I cannot change nor choose to change, and in a supposedly FREE CULTURAL MOSAIC society, if I choose to celebrate my cultural heritage I need not travel 5000 miles across the Atlantic to do so. I resent your remarks that take me back to my boyhood where my brothers and I had to endure similar ignorant commentaries such as, "...hey Greasy Greek, why don't you go back to Greecland on the boat that brought you here..." or "...wap boys, wap boys, this is my country not yours, go back where you came from...". I acknowledge the country of my birth as mine and thusly refer to myself as "Greek-Canadian"; and proudly so. I'd fight to the death in honour of the country that my parents emmigrated to, the one that helped establish themselves in every facet of life, the one that helped produce 5 children and 14 grandchildren....but don't EVER tell me to "go back to Greece" because I want to innocently and peacefully acknowledge my blood-line. I can be Greek/Italian/Russian/Chinese/African/Polish/Irish/Scottish whenever I damn-well "want to be"....and it's PRECISELY this afforded freedom that makes this great country the greatest there is. Be who you are, and be proud, because you're FREE TO. If the day ever comes where we're not, you need not ask me to "go back", I'll be gone....as will be Canada. I AM GREEK-CANADIAN! |
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Post by franko on Sept 19, 2008 13:37:06 GMT -5
Where are the mods when you need one? An interesting discussion, for sure. Hmmm...I don't "want" to be Greek...I "AM" Greek....something I cannot change nor choose to change, and in a supposedly FREE CULTURAL MOSAIC society, if I choose to celebrate my cultural heritage I need not travel 5000 miles across the Atlantic to do so. Agree wholeheartedly -- heritage is of dynamic import -- we are who we are because of who we are. 2/2 -- there is no place for "go back to [fill in the blank]" -- fact is, first nations people probably wish we all would! 3/3 -- and no problem with it. But now the question, [as I interpreted it] from CH: when does one become a non-hyphenated Canadian? I attended a fund-raising meeting the other day at a Portuguese hall. The president of the club (born in Canada, in his mid-30s) kept saying things like: "We have to make sure we attract the Portuguese community.....but, we want as many Canadians here as possible too." He made that distinction several times, and I was left thinking, "Don't you consider yourself a Canadian?" I see you as a Greek-Canadian because you are Greek first by birth. I can probably see your children as Greek-Canadian [or maybe Canadian-Greek] because they are second generation. But when does a person become a Canadian with [picking on you because you can't reach through the computer lines and smack me upside the head] a Greek background/heritage? Not that heritage shouldn't be celebrated -- it should be. But when does familial origin take a lesser role to country of birth? And to you I raise a glass  |
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Post by clear observer on Sept 19, 2008 14:15:25 GMT -5
Thank you, Franko....I appreciate your sentiments.  when does one become a non-hyphenated Canadian? The simple answer to the above question is, whenever one feels the need. Some are under the misconception that in refering to oneself with first their cultural background followed by their citizenship is "unpatriotic". I find that odd and somewhat ironic. I do it because: a) conditioned since birth b) I like acknowledging that I'm Greek since I feel it better defines me c) I can If one puts the "Canadian" first or second is and shouldn't be of any consequence; in fact, leaving it out shouldn't bother anyone either as far as I'm concerned. Like I said, we're free in this country to call ourselves whatever the hell we wish without any fear of condemnation from anyone.....at least for now. Oh, and thanks for the toast!! |
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Post by franko on Sept 19, 2008 14:46:03 GMT -5
Oh, and thanks for the toast!! You are very welcome! Gotta tell you . . . I am drawn to Greece . . . Mrs. Franko and I spent a couple of weeks on Rhodes a few years back . . . one of the friendliest vacations I ever had [and I survived the driving, even with goats having the right-of-way!]. Of course, it was the end of tourist season [the only people "visiting" were . . . (no, I'd better not say ) . . . they were out-and-out rude (and it wasn't the Brits)] . . . but at every taverna we ate at the owners were slow to bring us the bill . . . and when they did they sat and talked with us for half an hour before we could go . . . and seemed taken aback that we declined their hospitality when they offered some Ouzo . . . but soon laughed and smiled with us as we tried to communicate. In fact, Maria -- our breakfast hostess -- gave us a couple of pomegranates to take home with us when she discovered it was our last morning before heading home . . . and our first evening our "host" [since I can't call the guy who rented us our studio an innkeeper] brought us dinner his wife had made for us so that we would make sure we had a real homemade meal! Great. slams keyboard Now you have me longing to go back. [/threadjack] |
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 19, 2008 15:00:41 GMT -5
I personally think that if you want to be Greek (or Italian, or whatever) go to Greece (or Italy, or whatever). Hmmm...I don't "want" to be Greek...I "AM" Greek....something I cannot change nor choose to change, and in a supposedly FREE CULTURAL MOSAIC society, if I choose to celebrate my cultural heritage I need not travel 5000 miles across the Atlantic to do so. I resent your remarks that take me back to my boyhood where my brothers and I had to endure similar ignorant commentaries such as, "...hey Greasy Greek, why don't you go back to Greecland on the boat that brought you here..." or "...wap boys, wap boys, this is my country not yours, go back where you came from...". I acknowledge the country of my birth as mine and thusly refer to myself as "Greek-Canadian"; and proudly so. I'd fight to the death in honour of the country that my parents emmigrated to, the one that helped establish themselves in every facet of life, the one that helped produce 5 children and 14 grandchildren....but don't EVER tell me to "go back to Greece" because I want to innocently and peacefully acknowledge my blood-line. I can be Greek/Italian/Russian/Chinese/African/Polish/Irish/Scottish whenever I damn-well "want to be"....and it's PRECISELY this afforded freedom that makes this great country the greatest there is. Be who you are, and be proud, because you're FREE TO. If the day ever comes where we're not, you need not ask me to "go back", I'll be gone....as will be Canada. I AM GREEK-CANADIAN! This isn't the context in which I meant it (and I apologize if that's how you understood it), but moreso referring to the original post in which CentreHice's experience whereby I would be Canadian, exclusive of the "Portuguese" community. I think these are some of the reasons that racial hostility exists in Canada because it's not implicitly understood that I would be welcome at a function such as that. And frankly, often times I wouldn't be. The mosaic to which Canada adheres is one which causes friction. It isn't unpatriotic, as you mentioned. I think it's exclusive. It feels like reverse-racism. It's okay to have a club for a specific ethnic background, but if I were to start a club where only Canadians by 3rd generation descent could join I would be attacked relentlessly for being racist. Other cultures are welcome in Canada, but too often now I'm seeing those who've emigrated here from that culture barricading themselves in. Out of curiosity, why does "Greek-Canadian" better-define you? Physical appearance? Food preferences? Who you cheer for in the World Cup? |
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Post by clear observer on Sept 19, 2008 20:17:13 GMT -5
Hmmm...I don't "want" to be Greek...I "AM" Greek....something I cannot change nor choose to change, and in a supposedly FREE CULTURAL MOSAIC society, if I choose to celebrate my cultural heritage I need not travel 5000 miles across the Atlantic to do so. I resent your remarks that take me back to my boyhood where my brothers and I had to endure similar ignorant commentaries such as, "...hey Greasy Greek, why don't you go back to Greecland on the boat that brought you here..." or "...wap boys, wap boys, this is my country not yours, go back where you came from...". I acknowledge the country of my birth as mine and thusly refer to myself as "Greek-Canadian"; and proudly so. I'd fight to the death in honour of the country that my parents emmigrated to, the one that helped establish themselves in every facet of life, the one that helped produce 5 children and 14 grandchildren....but don't EVER tell me to "go back to Greece" because I want to innocently and peacefully acknowledge my blood-line. I can be Greek/Italian/Russian/Chinese/African/Polish/Irish/Scottish whenever I damn-well "want to be"....and it's PRECISELY this afforded freedom that makes this great country the greatest there is. Be who you are, and be proud, because you're FREE TO. If the day ever comes where we're not, you need not ask me to "go back", I'll be gone....as will be Canada. I AM GREEK-CANADIAN! This isn't the context in which I meant it (and I apologize if that's how you understood it), but moreso referring to the original post in which CentreHice's experience whereby I would be Canadian, exclusive of the "Portuguese" community. I think these are some of the reasons that racial hostility exists in Canada because it's not implicitly understood that I would be welcome at a function such as that. And frankly, often times I wouldn't be. The mosaic to which Canada adheres is one which causes friction. It isn't unpatriotic, as you mentioned. I think it's exclusive. It feels like reverse-racism. It's okay to have a club for a specific ethnic background, but if I were to start a club where only Canadians by 3rd generation descent could join I would be attacked relentlessly for being racist. Other cultures are welcome in Canada, but too often now I'm seeing those who've emigrated here from that culture barricading themselves in. Out of curiosity, why does "Greek-Canadian" better-define you? Physical appearance? Food preferences? Who you cheer for in the World Cup? "Greek-Canadian" where "Greek" is used as an adjective. So you see, ultimately I am a Canadian, only more accurately described as a "Greek" one. The World Cup? Why, Team Canada, of course! |
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Post by franko on Sept 19, 2008 20:44:07 GMT -5
The World Cup? Why, Team Canada, of course!  |
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Post by roke on Sept 19, 2008 22:04:02 GMT -5
The World Cup? Why, Team Canada, of course! Agreed, I thought we had a reasonable chance of qualifying for 2010 based on the strength of the squad, performance in the last Gold Cup, and performance in some recent friendlies but terrible tactics (you can't hoof the ball up the field to a lone striker in modern football), bad coaching and our best players not being good means that we won't be there unless there are miracles. Major changes to the Canadian Soccer Association are needed before we'll see our National Team in the World Cup. I was going to post something similar to CH back around September 7th, but decided against it, probably for the best. I had just finished watching the Canada-Honduras match the night before in front of a crowd that seemed to be 80% in favour of Honduras, many of whom I assumed were Canadians. I decided against it because I was clearly frustrated by the loss. Another reason for not starting the topic was also because the dynamic of being part of a distinct cultural community within our mosaic, as ancestors on both sides of my family go back a fair number of generations. I will say that one thing we, in my experience, don't do a good job of teaching about Canada, Canadian history, and "Canadian values" in our education system. I do not recall learning a significant amount of Canadian history until the 9th grade, and I would say that 1/3 was about the aboriginal peoples, 1/2 was about pre-confederation Canada (New France and British North America), and the rest probably covered Confederation and Canadian history up to the building of the CPR. Add to that the requisite early Manitoban history (seeing how I'm in Manitoba), and that was it. Canadian History in the 11th grade was also nearly all pre-Confederation history; I wasn't taught any post-Depression Canadian History until I took a post-1920 Canadian History. My experience may not be the same as others (or others' children), but I don't think the education curriculum are anywhere near adequate with regard to Canadian history. Very little is taught post-Confederation and the only time military contributions and sacrifices of our men and women in uniform gets taught, besides peacekeeping (be it the First World War, Second World War, Korean War or other conflicts) is mentioned is around Remembrance Day. It's hard to have a national identity when our young people don't know about it. That being said, the multiculturalistic nature of our country is the greatest facet of our state. The fact that we not only accept people maintaining ties to their past, but encourage it`makes it easier for people to establish themselves in the country, and provide a great opportunity to experience a little bit of cultures unlike our own. Most importantly however, is the fact that as a whole it makes us a more tolerant, open, and accepting country as a whole, and that tolerance, openness, and acceptance allows us to play a larger role than we may otherwise merit in the international community. Without multiculturalism, I believe we would not be as vibrant and well-regarded as we are. I would just like to see a little more of something that can unite every Canadian. |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 19, 2008 23:07:38 GMT -5
Strange .... I don't label myself as Canadian first, but when I hear "World Cup" I automatically think of something significantly Canadian - "The World Cup of Hockey". Yet, most "Canadians" on here think of something that Canada has not played in since 1988. The other World Cup is not really all that "Canadian" ...... ... |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 19, 2008 23:20:54 GMT -5
It's all got to do with time-span and how adamantly heritage is or isn't instilled by parents/community. Its got to do with what you feel comfortable with ... why should I feel Canadian when Canada continues to put us down. Everyone laughs at the "good ol Newfie joke" making us feel like the laughing stock of the country. Say we are a financial drag on the nation, wont stick up for us when we are right (our 7 measly little seats isnt going to help us). And the real kicker ... we've been in the country now for 50 years and more than half the country CAN NOT pronounce the name of our province!! No, I do not feel comfortable in Canada, I don't feel appreciated as a culture and for our contributions to this Confederation .... and when the PM of this country says on national TV that NL joined Confederation in 1867 and that his is in the beautiful town of Grace Harbour (  ) ... well he doesn't know much about NL either. And to make matters worse, he doesnt want to know ... I disagree. My favourite teacher growing up was a monarchist, and a devout nationalist. He MADE us learn the PMs by date and order, the monarchy lineage, and when the CAA had a school safety seminar in Ottawa for students across the country, he came up with the bright idea of having a "nationalist" test to choose who went - (your truly got the highest mark... thank you John Bye!!) ... Even though I studied Canadian history, politics, geography, etc it didn't brainwash me into being "Canada above all". Why? Because Canada will not study NL. Quebec may be a nation (and I am proud they are), but NL WAS a nation... one of the few nations to give up sovereignty for something they believed in (although the actual vote was rigged, so really we should not be in the nation), but too bad the nation didnt believe in us. Because of one too many kicks in the gut .... |
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Post by MC Habber on Sept 20, 2008 1:15:51 GMT -5
the PM of this country says on national TV that NL joined Confederation in 1867 Harper said this? When? |
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Post by franko on Sept 20, 2008 9:33:27 GMT -5
Sounds like you got more Canadian history than the rest of us put together! Grade 5: the fur traders, Ste. Marie among the Hurons, Paddle Me to the Sea. After that: Asian and European history [the fur traders was somewhat European history too] . . . then nothing. It isn't that Canada doesn't study Newfoundland . . . it's that Canada doesn't study Canada! Which would be a good thing: living in Ottawa is the only way I discovered that the high school I almost went to [moved instead] was named after a Prime Minister! Oh . . . and if you want more mispronunciation, move to Alverta. OK, Newfoundland will be pronounced correctly, but anything of a francophone nature will not be [like my last name, and any Québécois company]. |
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Post by Yossarian on Sept 20, 2008 11:28:04 GMT -5
Canada is still a relatively young country. Many are either first or second generation. They haven't had time to be Canadianized, if you will.
Take a country like Brazil. It is almost as multicultural as Canada. However, the immigration waves took place much earlier. So there are descendents from Europe and Asia, and Africa, as well as natives. Yet the dominant and almost universal language spoken is Portuguese, and the culture is very uniquely Brazilian. There is no question that ethnicity has been diluted over the years and generations. The same will happen in Canada.
I'm of Italian descent. When I was travelling in Italy years ago with a good buddy from Canada, also of Italian descent, we spoke to this one cab driver in Italian, and then to each other in English. He looked at us and asked us where we were from. We told him we were Canadian, but our parents were born in Italy. He quickly corrected us, that we were Italian, and that living in Canada has made our brains confuse the heart and blood (sort of a loose translation). To a degree, I think he was right.
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Post by MC Habber on Sept 20, 2008 15:59:53 GMT -5
Canada is still a relatively young country. Many are either first or second generation. They haven't had time to be Canadianized, if you will. I expect this will be true for a while yet. How long until people of Middle Eastern descent become the majority group in Canada? In France, I believe it's expected to happen in 50 years. |
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) ... well he doesn't know much about NL either. And to make matters worse, he doesnt want to know ...