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Post by Cranky on Nov 2, 2003 22:00:30 GMT -5
One angry addict that got a bad hockey fix................
I debated if I should write what I saw tonight or just plain forget the pain. I will, but please forgive me for doing it. They have played three games in three days and they deserve some slack, however, I saw what I saw and will post it.
Where to start…..
It’s starting to be very obvious that Savard has nothing but the Senators as the model for our team. His choice of drafting a player is that he should be a very good skater and fairly smart player who can play the a decent hockey game right out of the egg. Basically, like it or not, he is building a team of Dackells and Sundstroms.
Why….
What do you see in this comparison?
Balej, Jozef 5'11" 190
Gratton, Benoit 5'11" 190
Higgins, Chris 5'11" 180
Milroy, Duncan 6'00" 190
Perezhogin, Alexander 6'00" 185
Plekanec, Tomas 5'10" 180
Here is what I can tell you about all of them. They all skate very well with Balej a bit better and Higgins/Milroy a bit worse. They all know how to play the game at a certain level. But where is the size? More about that later.
Best forwards in tonights game………<br>
Plackenac: Played an in your face game for the first period but was much less of a factor in the rest of the game. What I like the most is that he is an HA approved, dirty little s...o..b.....ackhum....player. Just the way I like them. Koivu junior mixed with some Gilmour dundruff......
Balej: Same game as Placks and a couple of decent rubouts. Way, way better player then I ever saw last year.
Dagenais: He starts the game by hitting and getting into everyone’s face. In fact, he layed a couple of hits in one shift and he managed to take the opposing players off their game so much so that they mixed up their assignments and he landed up scoring a goal. After that, he went on a mental break for the rest of the game. Why? Fatigue or lack of focus?
Now it gets worse....
Perezhogin: He looks tentative and he is not playing a hard game. He had ample opportunities to head for the net but instead headed for open ice and waited for a pass to hit him on the head...err stick.
Milroy: Perimeter, tentative game. His skating is average. He did not rub people out as much as he just interferer with them.
Higgins: See Milroy but with a bit more salt.
Gratton: Played an unusually soft game for himself. In fact, this is the worse game I have ever seen him play. Somewhat involved does not cut it for a team captain.
Komo: He was on the ice for three if not all the opposing goals. One of them can be pinned on him and two on his partner. What I don't understand is why he is not paired with Dykhuis. Dykhuis is FAR superior defenseman to Beauchemin. Dykhuis may be soft but he sure knows the game. Dykhuis used a couple of can openers to break up a rush like it was child’s play and can lock up a guy wiithout breaking out with painful expressions on his face. The same play from Komo would involve a lot more heroics and drama. Sometimes the game is about ALL the little things that you need to know and use and not about the splashy hits and the intimidation. Why is Dykhuis and Komo not playing together? Is it because Dykhuis doesn’t want too?
Damphousse: OUCH. Two softies.
Svitov: Plays a bit in your face and has the size to go toe to toe with large defensman. He made a couple of niice moves to shoot the puck and to get away from a checker. To those who want to trade Svitov for Hainsey, think again. I don't know what the ultimate development awaits either, but today, I would keep Hainsey without a second thought about it.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 2, 2003 22:01:47 GMT -5
What's bothering me? Where are the large forwards that we need to get the puck from the corner? With the NHL approaching over a 6'1" and 208 pound average, we have a team of smaller "skilled" players that are going to have a tough time competing against the bigger team in the league. At BEST, we have a couple of Koivu knock offs in Placks and Higgins and a couple of Bulis's kockoffs in Balej and Milroy but where is our forward power? Who is going to get the puck? Who is going to fight in the corners against 6'4" defenseman? Who is going to stand in front of the net? Yes, I know that the Hab's had a string of failures with size but why should the pendlum swing ALL the way to the other side? What are we going to do for size? Ward is still a third liner and I am not convinced we have anything more then a 20 goal scorer in Ryder. Dagenais is a knock off of these two but basically has the same speed and balance of Ward. That is not saying a lot. Octomber 19th Report: habsrus.proboards4.com/index.cgi?board=Scouting&action=display&n=1&thread=1419 |
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Post by Thomas on Nov 2, 2003 22:11:53 GMT -5
I hope it was just the fatigue kicking in, playing 3 games in 2 1/2 days isnt exactly easy. I listened to most of all three games, and it didnt sound like the same team today as the past two nights.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 2, 2003 22:17:58 GMT -5
I hope it was just the fatigue kicking in, playing 3 games in 2 1/2 days isnt exactly easy. I listened to most of all three games, and it didnt sound like the same team today as the past two nights. Yes, I know and I certainly hope so because I was angry when I left the rink. I waited until I had dinner and relaxed before I posted otherwise this would look like the Scouting Report from Hell...... Nevertheless.... The size issue remains. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2003 22:22:50 GMT -5
Regardless, we need a team of more natural goal scorers. Audette is not cutting it, and Perreault is a secondary scorer. If Plekanec and Perezhogin are going to be our natural goal scorers for the future, then I'm fine with that.
Don't be too concerned with them just yet. Perezhogin is still learning the North American style of play.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 2, 2003 22:29:23 GMT -5
It's easier to understand what fatigue does to you after you''ve played 4 or 5 games in a weekend tournament. At least in those tourneys your opponents have usually played as many games and they're just as tired. Don't judge the kids on the 3rd game in 3 nights. Four goals on 18 shots? That's the 2nd game that Damphousse seems to have stunk out the joint. You can't give up goals on low shot totals or it kills your team. I feel the Dogs are progressing at a reasonable rate. They're very young, they have a new coach, who hasn't head coached in a while, if at all, and their goaltending is not always reliable. They're at around .500 are they not? That's ok.
Having said all that, none of those forwards are going to grow 3 inches and 30 pounds, so the issue of guys who can battle in the corners and make like a door near the goal crease, is still front and centre (and wing too). Thanks for the birds eye view HA, and for not wearing rose coloured glasses.
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Post by blaise on Nov 2, 2003 22:33:09 GMT -5
What's bothering me? Where are the large forwards that we need to get the puck from the corner? With the NHL approaching a 6'1" 200 pound average, we have a team of smaller "skilled" players that are going to have a tough time competing against the bigger team in the league. At BEST, we have a couple of Koivu knock offs in Placks and Higgins and a couple of Bulis's kockoffs in Balej and Milroy but where is our forward power? Who is going to get the puck? Who is going to fight in the corners against 6'4" defenseman? Who is going to stand in front of the net? So where does Ribeiro stand in your equation? Size? Skating? Salt? |
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Post by Thomas on Nov 2, 2003 22:33:41 GMT -5
Savard got the skill and skating, now Gainey will bring in size. I'm not too concerned right now, AS always picked the BPA available and it will (hopefully) end up benefiting the Habs. Everytime the Habd drafted size lately (Houle mostly..) it seemed to make things worse. If we had stuck with the BPA rather then draft for size we would have Marian Hossa rather then Jason Ward, Simon Gagne instead of Eric Chouinard, Daniel Briere instead of Matt Higgins, Iginla/McLaren/Dvorak instead of Terry Ryan etc. It just happened to be that players with smaller size were the BPA according to our scouting staff and Savard.
Yes, those players would make our team smaller, but at least they made the NHL. We could have then used a few of them to get bigger players since they had the talent. If every team drafts for size, then some teams will need small, fast, skilled players. Our team would have gone a lot farther with Hossa, Dvorak, Gagne and Briere then it did with Ward, Matt Higgins, Ryan and Chouinard.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 2, 2003 22:47:16 GMT -5
So where does Ribeiro stand in your equation? Size? Skating? Salt? Ribeiro? I think that he should not have a future in the Hab's organization. IF we are depending on Ribiero to lead this team to the Promised Land, we are is serious trouble. I know this sounds harsh and dreadful, but... I don't care how well you can dipsy doodle with the puck, you need to be able to play all four corners of the rink unless you have OVERWHELMING superiority in one aspect. Hull can shoot bullets and he ignored his own end for most of his career. Bure can bust open a game with pure speed and he needed to find his own end with a rope and a guide dog. Anyone above 4' 24" can strip the puck off Ribeiro. It's not like he has this incredable quickness to get away from people. He doesn't even have the old "Petrov hanging off their suspenders" doggedness for a small player. |
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Post by blaise on Nov 2, 2003 22:48:20 GMT -5
What did A. Savard have to do with? He wasn't around.
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Post by Bob on Nov 2, 2003 22:51:07 GMT -5
So where does Ribeiro stand in your equation? Size? Skating? Salt? Or Perreault and Audette for that matter. The Hamilton players mentioned would be a size and skating upgrade on any or all three of these players. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 2, 2003 23:01:44 GMT -5
and for not wearing rose coloured glasses. Qui? Moi?  Usually, I stay away from making any comments about anything other then what I see on the ice, but tonight, it got to me. I desperately want to believe that we are on the way to were we belong but what I saw tonight was the same thing we now have in the NHL. Only younger..... Like I said, I was ambivalent about writing any report because this may be the "low score" in the hockey ice dancing competition. Last year, I attended a game where they scored 15 goals. I guess that was the "high score" from the Russian judge... |
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Post by oldhabsfan on Nov 3, 2003 0:20:53 GMT -5
HA, did you get a look at Ferland? Any thoughts?
On the size question, I see that Deveaux seems to have picked up his socks, at least in these first few games. Let's hope he keeps it up.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 3, 2003 1:30:17 GMT -5
Last year, I attended a game where they scored 15 goals. I guess that was the "high score" from the Russian judge... Was she the one who was hounded out of Dodge City...er I mean Salt Lake City? Does this mean the boys were playing like ice dancers? Tu tu bad. |
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Post by britten on Nov 3, 2003 8:33:01 GMT -5
I think that during the draft you have to get the BPA. If you dont, then you miss out on your chance at a first line player. Going big, ala Chouinard and Ward, doesn't get you anywhere if you don't have someone to do something other than be big and be at the net. The unfortunate part is that it takes time to develop those big players, and aside from Komo we just dont have them.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 3, 2003 8:55:45 GMT -5
HA, did you get a look at Ferland? Any thoughts? He was scratched. Jarvis got in some of his extras since it was the Dogs 3rd game in not even 48 hours. |
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Post by AH on Nov 3, 2003 10:31:29 GMT -5
You draft for talent and you trade for grit.
I am not worried.
Too many times we have drafted for grit and looked for talent elsewhere. We now have the results today.
Thanks for the couting report HA. Would you say that Balej could AT LEAST replace Audette in the next few weeks. What about Plex replacing Ribeiro.
Those 2 would bring some serious speed to the lineup, something we are clearly lacking.
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Post by Montrealer on Nov 3, 2003 11:04:20 GMT -5
Ribeiro? I think that he should not have a future in the Hab's organization. IF we are depending on Ribiero to lead this team to the Promised Land, we are is serious trouble. I know this sounds harsh and dreadful, but... I don't care how well you can dipsy doodle with the puck, you need to be able to play all four corners of the rink unless you have OVERWHELMING superiority in one aspect. Hull can shoot bullets and he ignored his own end for most of his career. Bure can bust open a game with pure speed and he needed to find his own end with a rope and a guide dog. Anyone above 4' 24" can strip the puck off Ribeiro. It's not like he has this incredable quickness to get away from people. He doesn't even have the old "Petrov hanging off their suspenders" doggedness for a small player. Definately. We should put him on waivers immediately. He is a cancer for our proud, incredible super-organization. |
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Post by blaise on Nov 3, 2003 11:11:51 GMT -5
Trade Ribeiro for a beefy wing who can score even with a defenseman draped over his back, then bring up Plekanec.
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Post by Montrealer on Nov 3, 2003 11:13:48 GMT -5
I hope the Habs trade Koivu, Theodore, Zednik, Bulis, Markov.
IT'S TIME FOR PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY! BIG BEEFY HUMOUNGOUSOID PLAYERS ONLY.
WE SHOULD GET BASKETBALL PLAYERS THEY'RE ALL REALLY TALL.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 3, 2003 11:15:20 GMT -5
You draft for talent and you trade for grit. I am not worried. Too many times we have drafted for grit and looked for talent elsewhere. We now have the results today. Thanks for the scouting report HA. Would you say that Balej could AT LEAST replace Audette in the next few weeks. What about Plex replacing Ribeiro. Those 2 would bring some serious speed to the lineup, something we are clearly lacking. Balej or Pleks for Audette?? Hmmmm.....YES! Plaks has a better overall game and is the "smarter" player but Balej has more deadly weapons. It would be interesting to see Pleks, Balej and Hossa play together. Ribeiro is more usefull as an offensive player at this moment. You know what? A lot of these kids raise their game and then go on mental cruise control. If Julien can keep a fire under them, a line of youngesters going flat our is much more usefull then a line of cruising has'beens. |
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Post by Montrealer on Nov 3, 2003 11:16:41 GMT -5
You know what? A lot of these kids raise their game and then go on mental cruise control. If Julien can keep a fire under them, a line of youngesters going flat our is much more usefull then a line of cruising has'beens. This is exactly what will determine if Julien is a successful NHL coach, or if he will need replacing at the end of the season. Great point. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 3, 2003 11:18:10 GMT -5
I hope the Habs trade Koivu, Theodore, Zednik, Bulis, Markov. IT'S TIME FOR PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY! BIG BEEFY HUMOUNGOUSOID PLAYERS ONLY. WE SHOULD GET BASKETBALL PLAYERS THEY'RE ALL REALLY TALL. Calm down and add to the debate. If you disagree with someones opinion, fine, but your rampant sarcasm is adding nothing. |
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Post by Montrealer on Nov 3, 2003 11:22:32 GMT -5
Calm down and add to the debate. If you disagree with someones opinion, fine, but your rampant sarcasm is adding nothing. I made my last post in the other thread (missing pieces?) about Ribeiro. I guess I'll just have to live with the constant Ribeiro-bashing on this board. I'm sorry I expressed my opinion in so lousy a way, I'm just frustrated. I think, though, the point is made. I'll repeat: No wonder no one wants to play here. Even when a local boy makes good, he's blamed for not being everything the fans want. He's blamed for not lighting the lamp even though the entire team is offensively-struggling. He's blamed because the stupid media annointed him a star based on two weeks of excellent play. He's already being railroaded out of town on this board. And for me, that's crap. Sorry. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Nov 3, 2003 11:25:28 GMT -5
I made my last post in the other thread (missing pieces?) about Ribeiro. I guess I'll just have to live with the constant Ribeiro-bashing on this board. I'm sorry I expressed my opinion in so lousy a way, I'm just frustrated. I think, though, the point is made. I'll repeat: No wonder no one wants to play here. Even when a local boy makes good, he's blamed for not being everything the fans want. He's blamed for not lighting the lamp even though the entire team is offensively-struggling. He's blamed because the stupid media annointed him a star based on two weeks of excellent play. He's already being railroaded out of town on this board. And for me, that's crap. Sorry. Deep breaths. Deep breaths.  Your points are well taken in this corner. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 3, 2003 11:30:34 GMT -5
I made my last post in the other thread (missing pieces?) about Ribeiro. I guess I'll just have to live with the constant Ribeiro-bashing on this board. I'm sorry I expressed my opinion in so lousy a way, I'm just frustrated. I think, though, the point is made. I'll repeat: No wonder no one wants to play here. Even when a local boy makes good, he's blamed for not being everything the fans want. He's blamed for not lighting the lamp even though the entire team is offensively-struggling. He's blamed because the stupid media annointed him a star based on two weeks of excellent play. He's already being railroaded out of town on this board. And for me, that's crap. Sorry. Ribeiro is useful for us NOW. We are better with him in the lineup then without him. What I said in my previous post and to clarify it. Ribeiro at the level he is NOW, he is NOT a piece of of a "contending" puzzle. There is no room for him in teams like the Flyers, Sens and Avs. Perhaps he can get quicker. That will help. But he needs to be more then what he is to keep and build upon. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 3, 2003 12:32:12 GMT -5
The promising thing is that, with the exception of the poor team effort by the Dogs that was witnessed by our scouting team led by HA, Pleks and Balej have shown marked improvements in their game over last year. You have to like prospects who continue to improve after they are signed. Pleks is scoring well and has great speed. Balej is finding great chemistry with Pleks and is using that speed and booming shot well from what I can gather from the various reports. Higgs, Komo and Perezhogin are all solid prospects who have great upside that still has to be developed by coaches like Jarvis and CJ.
What I am sure was frustrating to our scouting team was to see the Baby Habs put in a very lame effort the day following the identical performance of the big club against a Rags team that should have been beaten, at least on paper (well, at least on my paper). What we can't forget is that Sunday's game followed a very spirited come from behind game on Friday where they outshot the other team something like 25-10 in the last two periods and a great effort on Saturday night to win in O/T. Two emotionally draining games, and the letdown on Sunday is not entirely surprising for such a young team. I don't think that it is an excuse, just something that a smart coach like Jarvis will note and work on for the rest of the season. After all, maintaining consistency is what wins playoff series.
Thanks for the informative reports, my only regret is that I was not able to join you...but being located closer to Santa's workshop than to the Copps Mausoleum has something to do with that. If work gets me anywhere near TO this season, I will be hoping to catch a game.
Cheers
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Post by blaise on Nov 3, 2003 13:51:29 GMT -5
Ribeiro is useful for us NOW. We are better with him in the lineup then without him. What I said in my previous post and to clarify it. Ribeiro at the level he is NOW, he is NOT a piece of of a "contending" puzzle. There is no room for him in teams like the Flyers, Sens and Avs. Perhaps he can get quicker. That will help. But he needs to be more then what he is to keep and build upon. Well expressed! Despite my opinion of Ribeiro I never said the Habs should banish him immediately without any thought of the means and consequences, the way several posters would like to dispose of Audette. Because he is not of contending quality I would like to use him as a chip in a trade to upgrade the team. That trade need not be for a center. His departure would create a gap, of course, since there are few centers on the Habs who can provide both scoring and playmaking (they all begin with the letter K). IMO bringing up Plekanec would restore at least parity because Plekanec can be a better all-around player than Ribeiro. His presence, plus any decent player secured in exchange for Ribeiro, would result in greater success in the standings. As HA say, there is no room for Ribeiro on the Flyers, Sens, and Avs, but there must be some team who is at least as center-deprived as the Habs but has a slight surplus of wings who might be a better fit than Audette or several other players on the roster. Of course, size and grit would help. |
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Vees
Rookie
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Post by Vees on Nov 3, 2003 14:31:03 GMT -5
"[we could have had] Marian Hossa rather then Jason Ward, Simon Gagne instead of Eric Chouinard, Daniel Briere instead of Matt Higgins, Jerome Iginla instead of Terry Ryan."
I know, we are all painfully aware of this and it's been debated many times, but to see it in print sometimes shocks the system. I realize drafts are crap shoots and no one gets it right all the time, but can you imagine?
Gagne - Koivu - Hossa
Zednik - Briere - Iginla
T'would be a rather nice two lines to say the least, and we have enough for solid 3rd and 4th lines: Bullis, Ryder, Perezhogin, Plekanec, Kilger, Higgins...
Sigh.
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Post by montreal on Nov 3, 2003 15:41:53 GMT -5
Well I just woke up after a long long long drive home in bad weather. I was at all 3 of the Dogs games. I'll post a full game report on all 3 games. I took notes from every game. The Sunday was the worst, but the other two were very good. Damphousse was not looking good. Pleks was good, Balej was ok, but too soft and weak. He has the frame of Ribeiro, but is very fast. I don't think he should be on the PK, he can get to the point quickly, but he doesn't seem to know how to use his stick to block lanes, and he really has a lack of strength. Great speed though. Perezhogin was ok but at times he didn't back check hard and it heard it on the bench (I was right behind Jarvis for 2 games). Dags wasn't involved much, but he did get Carkner to spear him for a penalty. Gratts didn't do much of anything all weekend but still was given a lot of ice time. Milroy didn't do much. Higgins had a few good hits and was one of the better players imo. Komo didn't have a great night, but the one PP goal against he had his man tied up, but Homelqvist (playing in his first game this season) let his man sneak in behind him for an easy goal. Komo could have played better. Beauchemin was at fault for one of the other goals, and he was kicking the bench after the goal.
I'm not fully awake yet, so I'll post more later.
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