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Post by blny on Apr 17, 2012 5:43:51 GMT -5
Grigorenko being outplayed by MacKinnon. Moose have come from 0-3 down to force game 7 tomorrow night. Wouldn't be surprised if Grigorenko does major slide in this draft. Shows right there difference in an elite center Button has him sliding to 14th. |
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 17, 2012 10:22:09 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised if Grigorenko does major slide in this draft. Shows right there difference in an elite center Button has him sliding to 14th. Can tell when seeing him play Grigorenko not going to be top line center. Chance he is Kadri. Hope he is a Kadri if Leafs pick him. U18 big game against USA on TSN today at 2 et. Chance to watch Dumba Canada's captain. One of the guys Timmins is considering at 3. |
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Post by blny on Apr 17, 2012 10:45:18 GMT -5
Reinhart is intriguing. He's a big body, plays with a bit of edge and produces numbers near the top of his class too.
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 17, 2012 15:53:51 GMT -5
Watching the game can tell why scouts rave about 2013 draft. Seth Jones what a monster! And he's not even the top ranked prospect. That draft is going to be best draft in a long while, chance to be one of best ever.
Dumba has skill to be something special. A little raw but has it all to develop into #1 NHL defenseman someday. Seen him go out of position to give a hit can't do that at NHL level, but he is 17 to be expected. Hope TSN carries a Sweden game, to compare him to Forsberg.
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Post by blny on Apr 17, 2012 21:16:09 GMT -5
Mooseheads make history. 4th Q league team to come back from 0-3 down. Captain Crutchlow scored 4. Drouin with the winner. Moose were down 3-1 halfway through. Down 4-3 with ten left in the third. Scored in OT to win. Not sure how many points MacKinnon had, but he was in on at least one. Grig quiet again.
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Post by franko on Apr 17, 2012 21:32:07 GMT -5
We ain't gonna get MacKinnon [at least I hope we aren't that bad].
Was at the 67s game tonight. Ceci will go to someone else this year but Monahan is up for the 2013 draft . . . some think he'll go top 5. Quiet tonight, but he's been a bear when it counted through this series [which the 67s won in OT -- it should never have reached that: 67s were terrible and their d was atrocious . . . their goaltending not much better. Tied 2-2 with a minute to go, Barrie gets a too many men penalty. Ottawa scores with 24 seconds to go. Barrie scores with 9 seconds to go -- like I said, atrocious d. 67s score 2 minutes in -- on the wall just in front of the goal line. didn't deserve to win but did -- good luck next round, though: up against Niagara who have 12 NHL-drafted players. but I digress ;D]
Monahan: C. 1st line. PP. PK. on the ice when it counts.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 17, 2012 23:48:01 GMT -5
I watched Monohan in an earlier game vs Barrie in this series and I liked him a lot. Smooth skater and some decent skill.
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Post by blny on Apr 18, 2012 5:32:34 GMT -5
We ain't gonna get MacKinnon [at least I hope we aren't that bad]. We won't be that bad. He's a special talent. Jonathan Drouin, 16, is also interesting. Be worth watching next year. |
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Post by blny on Apr 18, 2012 10:04:57 GMT -5
Saw a good one on TSN today. "Grigorwheredyougo"  |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 18, 2012 18:05:58 GMT -5
Poor kid, he's going to be hurt by the playoff performance, more so than Yakupov or Galchenyuk, who also didn't have good playoff stats.
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 19, 2012 7:53:13 GMT -5
We ain't gonna get MacKinnon [at least I hope we aren't that bad]. Was at the 67s game tonight. Ceci will go to someone else this year but Monahan is up for the 2013 draft . . . some think he'll go top 5. Quiet tonight, but he's been a bear when it counted through this series [which the 67s won in OT -- it should never have reached that: 67s were terrible and their d was atrocious . . . their goaltending not much better. Tied 2-2 with a minute to go, Barrie gets a too many men penalty. Ottawa scores with 24 seconds to go. Barrie scores with 9 seconds to go -- like I said, atrocious d. 67s score 2 minutes in -- on the wall just in front of the goal line. didn't deserve to win but did -- good luck next round, though: up against Niagara who have 12 NHL-drafted players. but I digress ;D] Monahan: C. 1st line. PP. PK. on the ice when it counts. The 2013 draft could very well be best ever draft. When a Seth Jones can dominate at U18 against players a full year older, its going to be something special. You are talking one of the future all-time greats, a Larry Robinson like. Players who don't come along every decade. |
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 19, 2012 8:07:15 GMT -5
Mooseheads make history. 4th Q league team to come back from 0-3 down. Captain Crutchlow scored 4. Drouin with the winner. Moose were down 3-1 halfway through. Down 4-3 with ten left in the third. Scored in OT to win. Not sure how many points MacKinnon had, but he was in on at least one. Grig quiet again. Quite a remarkable turn of events. I seen Grigorenko play for the first time at the Top Prospects Game and felt he lacked heart. Becomes even more appartent seeing him go head-to head against another top center in MacKinnon. Grigorenko showed flashes of his talent, he does have a great shot, he lacked the will to win and was outplayed by the much younger MacKinnon. Grigorenko is not a player I would waste a 3rd overall pick on. He is 17, maybe someday he will discover the will to win but what we have seen he is not a player to build the future Habs around. Going head-to-head and he was dominated by a 16-year-old this series. McKinnon finished the series with 4 goals 9 assists and was +5. Grigorenko finished the series with 1 goal and two assists and was -5 |
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Post by blny on Apr 19, 2012 8:15:11 GMT -5
Grig is looking more and more like a Viktor Kozlov.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 19, 2012 9:55:33 GMT -5
Poor kid, he's going to be hurt by the playoff performance, more so than Yakupov or Galchenyuk, who also didn't have good playoff stats. The latter two ran into a very hot goalie, who also caused top seeded London some serious fits as well in the next round. Grigs did have "more to lose" in the rankings though as the Sarnia duo were plagued with injury questions heading into that series. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 19, 2012 10:02:35 GMT -5
We ain't gonna get MacKinnon [at least I hope we aren't that bad]. Was at the 67s game tonight. Ceci will go to someone else this year but Monahan is up for the 2013 draft . . . some think he'll go top 5. Quiet tonight, but he's been a bear when it counted through this series [which the 67s won in OT -- it should never have reached that: 67s were terrible and their d was atrocious . . . their goaltending not much better. Tied 2-2 with a minute to go, Barrie gets a too many men penalty. Ottawa scores with 24 seconds to go. Barrie scores with 9 seconds to go -- like I said, atrocious d. 67s score 2 minutes in -- on the wall just in front of the goal line. didn't deserve to win but did -- good luck next round, though: up against Niagara who have 12 NHL-drafted players. but I digress ;D] Monahan: C. 1st line. PP. PK. on the ice when it counts. The 2013 draft could very well be best ever draft. When a Seth Jones can dominate at U18 against players a full year older, its going to be something special. You are talking one of the future all-time greats, a Larry Robinson like. Players who don't come along every decade. Yeah, and then add Hunter Shinkaruk who scored 49 goals in the Dub as a 16/17 year old this season and you have some serious top end players already showing their stuff against much older players. Some pretty promising talent emerging for the 2013 draft. |
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Post by Dschens on Apr 19, 2012 11:27:27 GMT -5
Looks like Grigorenko will be playing today vs Canada, he's added to the Russian roster.
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Post by Tankdriver on Apr 19, 2012 11:36:33 GMT -5
It is a good move for him... His stock has been falling so a good showing here might bring his stock back up.
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Post by Dschens on Apr 19, 2012 12:54:24 GMT -5
Looks like he was added to the roster but isn't playing today.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 20, 2012 8:24:15 GMT -5
Poor kid, he's going to be hurt by the playoff performance, more so than Yakupov or Galchenyuk, who also didn't have good playoff stats. I think Grigorenko had the most to lose because his style of play is simply counter to what we consider to be a good “NHL” hockey player. I’ve heard people describe him as “cerebral, methodical, slows the game down, works the perimeter” and then compare him to Joe Thornton or Jason Spezza, or former first overall pick Pierre Turgeon. Well, Thornton was run out of town in Boston because he appeared to be too cerebral and not passionate enough (especially come playoff time), and rightly or wrongly that reputation has followed him to San Jose, Spezza has been the whipping boy in Ottawa for years now, and Turgeon, despite incredibly lofty numbers, bounced around from team to team, and as Gare Joyce famously wrote was once described by a teammate as having “***** the size of snow peas.” Turgeon was the only Canadian player not to leave the bench during that infamous World Junior brawl with the Russians and while we can sit here and say that shouldn’t matter, the carnage we are witnessing this spring, and indeed the last few years, clearly tells us that it does. So I think people – some people – had this mind-set going in that Grigorenko was not and is not a “playoff performer”. That his style of play is just not conducive to being an elite player at the NHL level, or to being “that guy”, the one who is going to carry a team on his back to the Cup. That may or may not be true, but I think that’s the perception people had of him, and the perception was reinforced during that Halifax series. To be so completely dominated by a 16 year old in a power-to-power matchup just hurts for a guy who is supposed to be a #2 or #3 overall pick and who was supposed to lead a pretty good team much further in the playoffs. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 20, 2012 10:03:49 GMT -5
I agree BC. We read stuff like character, competitiveness, desire and more often than not what it really comes down to is a perception based on a player aggressiveness. I think of Steve Yzerman who to many is the measuring stick for leadership and character. But I’m certain you’ll remember early in Yzerman career how he was heavily criticized for lacking leadership, character, for playing well within his talent, etc… Hossa, Malkin, amazing players, Conn Smyth, Stanley cup… Yet they continually carry a soft and lacking intensity tag…
Heck, Jean Beliveau in his early years as a HABS was deemed heartless and characterless because he didn’t play the “in-your-face” style of Richards.
Jo Sakic in Quebec city…
So yeah players like Grigorenko face criticisms. Some end up with hardware, some don’t. But at the end of the day, their skill set is what it is. As I say, if you pass up on a guy that has 40 goals, 85pts and +35 in 56 games, as a rookie, you better be darn sure of what you’re doin’…
He had a bad round? Yep. He got outstaged by McKinnon? Yep. A few years ago a certain Sidney Crosby and his team ended up facing a much lesser Montreal team. Sid got neutralized and his team got eliminated. That's hockey.
Having a guy that can contribute 90-100pts a season? Gimme that. Grit is easier to find than elite talent.
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 20, 2012 15:02:18 GMT -5
I agree BC. We read stuff like character, competitiveness, desire and more often than not what it really comes down to is a perception based on a player aggressiveness. I think of Steve Yzerman who to many is the measuring stick for leadership and character. But I’m certain you’ll remember early in Yzerman career how he was heavily criticized for lacking leadership, character, for playing well within his talent, etc… Hossa, Malkin, amazing players, Conn Smyth, Stanley cup… Yet they continually carry a soft and lacking intensity tag… Heck, Jean Beliveau in his early years as a HABS was deemed heartless and characterless because he didn’t play the “in-your-face” style of Richards. Jo Sakic in Quebec city… So yeah players like Grigorenko face criticisms. Some end up with hardware, some don’t. But at the end of the day, their skill set is what it is. As I say, if you pass up on a guy that has 40 goals, 85pts and +35 in 56 games, as a rookie, you better be darn sure of what you’re doin’… He had a bad round? Yep. He got outstaged by McKinnon? Yep. A few years ago a certain Sidney Crosby and his team ended up facing a much lesser Montreal team. Sid got neutralized and his team got eliminated. That's hockey. Having a guy that can contribute 90-100pts a season? Gimme that. Grit is easier to find than elite talent. Grigorenko be more comparable to a Yashin. He can put up big points but lacks drive |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 12, 2012 10:37:31 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised if Grigorenko does major slide in this draft. Shows right there difference in an elite center Button has him sliding to 14th. I too am concerned about Grigorenko's drive and Roy's comments but to not pick him means that there is somebody better to choose. After the obvious #1, I don't think there is a better pick. Maybe Dumba, but we so seldom get a pick this high that I think we have to shoot for the stars and hope it turns out. Forsberg is a safer pick, but I don't favor using #3 to be safe. We have some young defensemen with great star potential, Subban, Beaulieu and Tinordi could remind us of Robinson, Savard and Lapointe. (bit of a stretch but two good offensive and a defensive stalwart) |
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Post by sjhabsfan on May 13, 2012 11:41:13 GMT -5
Being diagnosed with Mono a few weeks after the playoffs come to a close might have been a contributing factor to his disapointing play against the Mooseheads.
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Post by blny on May 13, 2012 14:53:39 GMT -5
Being diagnosed with Mono a few weeks after the playoffs come to a close might have been a contributing factor to his disapointing play against the Mooseheads. With a two week gestation period, it's very likely he contracted it sometime just before, or during, the series. It would definitely explain how his play completely fell off after the first 3 games of the series. I'm still very concerned about him though. At this point, I might just go with Galchenyuk if both were available at 3. |
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Post by sjhabsfan on May 14, 2012 9:58:20 GMT -5
I would tend to agree. I only saw him play in Saint John once this year. He didn't stand out in that game at all. I thought Duclair outplayed him and he isn't eligible until 13....
So did he rack up his points against Cape Breton and PEI in blowouts?
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 14, 2012 11:36:38 GMT -5
I agree BC. We read stuff like character, competitiveness, desire and more often than not what it really comes down to is a perception based on a player aggressiveness. I think of Steve Yzerman who to many is the measuring stick for leadership and character. But I’m certain you’ll remember early in Yzerman career how he was heavily criticized for lacking leadership, character, for playing well within his talent, etc… Hossa, Malkin, amazing players, Conn Smyth, Stanley cup… Yet they continually carry a soft and lacking intensity tag… Heck, Jean Beliveau in his early years as a HABS was deemed heartless and characterless because he didn’t play the “in-your-face” style of Richards. Jo Sakic in Quebec city… So yeah players like Grigorenko face criticisms. Some end up with hardware, some don’t. But at the end of the day, their skill set is what it is. As I say, if you pass up on a guy that has 40 goals, 85pts and +35 in 56 games, as a rookie, you better be darn sure of what you’re doin’… He had a bad round? Yep. He got outstaged by McKinnon? Yep. A few years ago a certain Sidney Crosby and his team ended up facing a much lesser Montreal team. Sid got neutralized and his team got eliminated. That's hockey. Having a guy that can contribute 90-100pts a season? Gimme that. Grit is easier to find than elite talent. Trust the process. I am confident that Timmins knows what he is doing. A lot of people went ballistic on this board when it was thought that we were scooped by Pittsburgh who drafted a falling Angelo Esposito with the #20 pick in the 2007 draft.... We ended up drafting Max Pacioretty with the #22 pick, who outside of Patrick Kane, may end up being the best forward from that draft. The point is people got enthused by Esposito - local kid, 98 points in 57 games his first year, playing in the Q...why the heck didn't we take him?? Well it was obvious that despite his production in junior, he either really didn't have the talent to succeed at the NHL level or he didn't have the make-up, or some combination of the two. In the case of Grigorenko, we have one year to go on. That's not a lot. And there have been questions from all corners about his work ethic and commitment, and that was before the playoffs. He may end up being a stud and we will look like idiots if he does for it will mean that we misjudged him. I hope that doesn't happen, but I am confident that the pick we make will be the guy that we feel has the best chance of being successful. If that's Grigorenko, so be it. But if it's not, that's OK too. |
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Post by BadCompany on May 14, 2012 11:42:09 GMT -5
It's a Long Con!!! Montreal covets Grigorenko. Always have. But they always thought that they would be drafting around 5th to 7th and never expected such an epic team collapse. Since they figured they were going to be drafting 5th to 7th, and they want Grigorenko, they had to figure out a way to get Grigorenko to drop. What better way than to completely dismiss his play? Never directly of course, but why not get a former scout, currently a writer for TSN, to bad-mouth him on the internet? Heck they even got future coach Patrick Roy to “grudgingly” admit that “maybe Grigorenko isn’t ready for the NHL and isn’t mature enough.” Get some mono-ridden groupie to smooch with him before the playoffs start just to bring down his stats. "If Timmins doesn’t like him, there must be something wrong with him… maybe we had better pass!" say the other teams. Other teams being Columbus, who are deathly afraid of drafting another enigmatic Russian, the Islanders, who probably weren’t going to draft a forward anyways, and Toronto, an organization that prides itself on being all heart and soul, even though they are neither heart nor soul. Brian Burke would probably gag on his own ego should he have to draft Grigorenko, what with all the bad press floated by Timmins. So Toronto convinces themselves that they want Galchenyuk but are certain Montreal is going to take him. Float some “but you know Montreal might be interested in Teravainen” rumours and Burke will see an “opening” (deftly created by Trevor “don’t call me Sammy” Timmins), and think “hey, I can get that 3rd overall, take Galchenyuk, and Montreal will take Teravainen with the 5th, a much more sellable spot to take him in”. To Toronto: 3rd overall, 3rd round pick 2012. To Montreal: 5th overall, 2nd round pick 2013, 6th round pick 2013. Montreal picks up another 2nd round pick next year, which is supposed to be a much better draft (Toronto’s first would be nice, but unlikely), and they give up a 3rd this year, which is probably a garbage pick anyways, given the lack of depth in this draft. Toronto doesn’t have a 3rd or 4th rounder this year, and they have an extra 6th rounder next year, so they think they win all around. Stupid Toronto. Of course Montreal could just take Grigorenko at 3, but where is the fun in that?  long con: A "long con" is an extended setup in an attempt to rob or cheat someone else. it usually involved an elaborate story that is executed over many weeks to months, aimed at convincing the target that the con artist (or thief) is legitimately a friend and trustworthy resource. at the end of the long con, the con artist gets the victim to voluntarily put themselves in precisely the position the con artist wants them in. |
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Post by franko on May 14, 2012 12:12:30 GMT -5
long con: A "long con" is an extended setup in an attempt to rob or cheat someone else. it usually involved an elaborate story that is executed over many weeks to months, aimed at convincing the target that the con artist (or thief) is legitimately a friend and trustworthy resource. at the end of the long con, the con artist gets the victim to voluntarily put themselves in precisely the position the con artist wants them in. see:[1] The Stingsee:[2] The Ontario Liberal Government's deal with Samsung |
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 14, 2012 13:08:05 GMT -5
long con: A "long con" is an extended setup in an attempt to rob or cheat someone else. it usually involved an elaborate story that is executed over many weeks to months, aimed at convincing the target that the con artist (or thief) is legitimately a friend and trustworthy resource. at the end of the long con, the con artist gets the victim to voluntarily put themselves in precisely the position the con artist wants them in. see:[1] The Stingsee:[2] The Ontario Liberal Government's deal with Samsung And one of the best episodes of "Lost", from Season 2. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 14, 2012 13:48:13 GMT -5
…BC is our resident Danny Ocean! To add to your Long Con scenario, HABS snatch Rick Dudley from Toronto who was their main guy for the draft… …speaking of Con… KHL just announced that returning Russian NHLers will not count against their new team cap… So drafting/acquiring Russians just got a little riskier… Say we draft Grigorenko or Yakupov and after a year, AK Bars offers them 5MM… The possibility was always there (see Radulov) but it just got a little easier for them nonetheless. Frankly I’m starting to severely lean towards Galchenyuk EVEN if Yakupow becomes available at #3… Boston_HABS, personally I don’t particularly trust Timmins. Sure there’s the Esposito/Pacioretty thingy, but there are also the Kostitsyn/Getzlef, Uruqart/Bergeron, and Fisher/Giroux gaffs… |
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