Svitov to CLB for Sydor

[AH]

www.tampabaylightning.com/?category=3

Svitov for Sydor ... hmmmm

That's one mean trio in Columbus with Nash, Svitov and Zherdev. Nice trade for the Jackets considering they were going nowhere and Sydor was making 3.5 million.

For those who thought we could have had Svitov for Hainsey earlier in the season, it could have worked. But then again, TBay was looking for an experienced D.

[Cranky]

I don't think this is the end of Tampa's trading. Things might get interesting......

[AH]

HabsAddict said:

I don't think this is the end of Tampa's trading. Things might get interesting......

Khabibulin is on the block. Grahame is red hot and Tortorella loves him.

Bye Bye Nik to the Flyers.

[seventeen]

I'm actually surprised. If all it took was a 31 1/2 year old defenseman to get Svitov, I think Feaster is back at it again. What other young studs can we scoop from him, for say....Rivet, or Perreault or both? I'm also vastly disappointed that we couldn't have gotten him ourselves, to fill up that 'big centre' role. I guess the fact he isn't right handed hurt the cause.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Oh my God, Koivu for Lecavalier is going to happen! Oh my God!

[seventeen]

mr said:

Oh my God, Koivu for Lecavalier is going to happen! Oh my God!

Hey, Mr. B, now you've got Doc wetting his pants. Take it easy.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

seventeen said:

Hey, Mr. B, now you've got Doc wetting his pants. Take it easy.

Oh my God, Koivu for Lecavalier and a pair of rubber pants is going to happen! Oh my God! ;D

[Cranky]

mr said:

Oh my God, Koivu for Lecavalier and a pair of rubber pants is going to happen! Oh my God! ;D

Don't forget that BC is going to break down and cry too.....

Now......

For those of you who get all excited and horny over Svitov, don't forget that the Hab's have first hand experience with this prospect. There must be a reason why the Hab's would not go after a giant center with good skills.

Maybe.....

They prefer another center?

[BCHab]

Columbus just stole him. I'm surprised that the price was so low. Sydor is past his prime and a fourth rounder is a crap shoot. I'm disappointed we couldn't acquire him. He was exactly what the team needed and BG could have easily made a better offer, in my humble opinion.

Cheers,

[PTH]

HabsAddict said:

don't forget that the Hab's have first hand experience with this prospect. There must be a reason why the Hab's would not go after a giant center with good skills.

Without going into heavy speculation about why the Habs wouldn't go for him, I agree that the Habs had plenty of knowledge of the guy, so they can know perfectly well what he's worth.

If TB were asking for something like Rivet and Bulis for Svitov and a 2nd, that would be exactly the kind of trade we were debating not long ago - do you risk the playoff run to improve the future ?

[seventeen]

PTH said:

If TB were asking for something like Rivet and Bulis for Svitov and a 2nd, that would be exactly the kind of trade we were debating not long ago - do you risk the playoff run to improve the future ?

Yes, yes and yes. Rivet is replaceable (easily in long run, and perhaps with some deterioration in the short run). Bulis would be a loss, but ya gotta give up something to get the potential of a Svitov. As you say, Jarvis saw enough of him in Hamilton to get a good read on his character.

[Paul]

Well let's see who do we have as centers, Higgins (5-11 192,) Larivee (6-3,192) Perezhogin (6-0,185) and of Course Koivu(5-10,180) Perreault (5-11,185) Juneau (6-0,195) and Ribeiro (6-0, 175) so yes adding a 3rd overaller who is 6-3 200lbs could help and he is only 21. So who do we have in comparisons to Sydor($3.5M/yr) a top 4 D-man. Maybe we could offer Brisebois($4M/yr) but we all know the answer would be "NO".

[AH]

Neil Smith of the NHL Network completely hates this trade for Tampa.

He basically said that it is too early in the process of growing a team in Tampa to go out and acquire an older player like Sydor by mortgaging a lot of your future. He also mentioned the Pitkanen trade as another one of those bad moves.

Sounds familiar !!! ;D

[PTH]

seventeen said:

As you say, Jarvis saw enough of him in Hamilton to get a good read on his character.

Or lack of...

[montreal]

Paul said:

Well let's see who do we have as centers, Higgins (5-11 192,) Larivee (6-3,192) Perezhogin (6-0,185) and of Course Koivu(5-10,180) Perreault (5-11,185) Juneau (6-0,195) and Ribeiro (6-0, 175) so yes adding a 3rd overaller who is 6-3 200lbs could help and he is only 21. So who do we have in comparisons to Sydor($3.5M/yr) a top 4 D-man. Maybe we could offer Brisebois($4M/yr) but we all know the answer would be "NO".

Perezhogin doesn't play center much at all, but can. Larrivee doesn't play center either, LW now, but can as well. There's also Plekanec, Urquhart, Lapierre, Locke, Deveaux, Dwyer (he plays center now in Hamilton)

[NWTHabsFan]

HabsAddict said:

For those of you who get all excited and horny over Svitov, don't forget that the Hab's have first hand experience with this prospect. There must be a reason why the Hab's would not go after a giant center with good skills.

I can only assume that Jarvis, with his skill of player knowledge and development, and AS and staff who have been watching plenty enough have some insight. That is all that I can think...if he was what we needed, BG and gang would have landed him. I am sticking with this stance, although it isn't convincing yet from an outsider. I guess that's why we have insiders!!

[Forum Ghost]

I would assume that Gainey would have been able to match, or beat, an offer of Darryl Sydor and a 4th rd pick. This is a player that was right under Gainey's nose the whole time. The price to acquire him was not too expensive, so I'm hoping that there's a reason that the Habs brass decided not to trade for Svitov.

I think someone mentioned something about his character, or lack of it. I don't know too much about that, but I do know that Svitov's quite the package of size and skill-something that the Habs do not have enough of in the pipeline.

[Boston_Habs]

I sincerely hope that Gainey, Savard and Jarvis took a good long look at Svitov and decided that he wasn't worth it. I REALLY hope that's the case because if they did like him you would think we could have offered up a better package than Darryl Sydor and a 4th round pick, which is a pretty skimpy return on a guy who was drafted #3 overall just a few years ago.

I hope we didn't just get scooped on this.

[BadCompany]

Lets not get too carried away. Darryl Sydor is a pretty decent defenseman, who isn't all that old (for a defenseman) at 31, and who was +22 last year. Sure, he's got a brutal +/- this year, but its Columbus... Sydor logs over 21 minutes a game, has been to three Stanley Cup Finals and is a pretty good veteran player.

Tampa obviously wanted an NHLer, for this year's playoff run. So Hainsey and/or any other combination of prospects wouldn't have cut it. That means we would have had to offer one of Brisebois or Rivet, as similar players. Even if we were to assume Tampa wanted one of those players, AND if we were to assume Tampa was willing to trade Svitov to another Eastern Conference team, would we seriously be willing to sacrifice this year's playoffs to get Svitov?? Without, say, Rivet, in the lineup, we would have to play either Komisarek or Traverse or Dykhuis or Hainsey 20 minutes a game. Cause that's what Rivet is playing now.

Anybody want to see Traverse back playing 20 minutes a game?

Souray is already slowing down, Markov is having a bad year, and Brisebois just isn't able to take on any more minutes. Komisarek is still way too raw, and he doesn't have the coach's confidence.

Acquiring Svitov MAY be better in the long run, but a) that's not a guarantee, especially given the slights on his character, and b) it would send a lousy message to the players and fans, if management appears to be tossing it in on this season. A message that would pretty much destroy everything Gainey and Julien have accomplished this year.

For all the " depth" we allegedly have on defense, we just aren't in a position to sacrifice a 20 minute player right now. Not unless we want to return to what we saw last year.

[Boston_Habs]

Boston_Habs said:

I sincerely hope that Gainey, Savard and Jarvis took a good long look at Svitov and decided that he wasn't worth it. I REALLY hope that's the case because if they did like him you would think we could have offered up a better package than Darryl Sydor and a 4th round pick, which is a pretty skimpy return on a guy who was drafted #3 overall just a few years ago.

I hope we didn't just get scooped on this.

Before I get blasted by AH, I'll amend those thoughts. If TB was really looking for an immediate top 4 dman, then it is a tougher trade. No way Souray is going anywhere, and Rivet/Brisebois/Quintal are not as good as Sydor. Plus Andrei Markov is having a tough year and still hasn't proven himself yet.

The best we could have offered for Svitov is future potential with the likes of Ron Hainsey, but TB clearly wanted more NHL-level talent. As much as I would have liked to see us grab a guy like Svitov, there's not much you can do in a trade if you don't have what the other team is looking for.

[franko]

Boston_Habs said:

The best we could have offered for Svitov is future potential with the likes of Ron Hainsey, but TB clearly wanted more NHL-level talent. As much as I would have liked to see us grab a guy like Svitov, there's not much you can do in a trade if you don't have what the other team is looking for.

So does BG now make a phone call to Columbus? Or would the asking price be to high even there: picks, farm, Ribs and Saku ( sorry, couldn't help myself).

[Boston_Habs]

franko said:

So does BG now make a phone call to Columbus? Or would the asking price be to high even there: picks, farm, Ribs and Saku ( sorry, couldn't help myself).

It's no joke. A 3-way deal can be another way to get the player you want, but Svitov is a perfect fit for Columbus which is in the mode of stockpiling as much young talent as possible. There's far less pressure on them to win now.

[Rimmer]

BadCompany said:

...would we seriously be willing to sacrifice this year's playoffs to get Svitov??

yes, if BG would consider Svitov an important piece of our future (2nd/3rd line center). as I said in another thread, where did all these " don't touch the roster!" talk suddenly come from? because we have a litttle winning streak and making the playoffs becomes more of a reality, the emphasis now turns from improving and building the team, which will eventually compete for the Cup, to this season and making the playoffs at all cost? do we realy see Rivet and PB as important parts of our Cup winning team 5 years from now? do we, or better yet, does BG see Svitov as one? if BG and co. don't have a problem with possibly jeopardizing our playoff chances by making as better for years to come, then neither should we.

anyway, maybe it's easy for me to look at it that way since the team has already exceeded my pre-season expectations (80 pts, 10th place) and I see playoffs this year as an added bonus.

Without, say, Rivet, in the lineup, we would have to play either Komisarek or Traverse or Dykhuis or Hainsey 20 minutes a game. Cause that's what Rivet is playing now.

Anybody want to see Traverse back playing 20 minutes a game?

LD -> Souray, Markov, Bouillon
RD -> Quintal, PB/Rivet, Komisarek/Dykhuis/Hainsey

so, essentially, you would have one of the 3 mentioned above or some rental veteran playing as a 6th dman. not as good as now, but not critical either, IMHO of course.

R.

[blny]

Well, if Svitov can't make it work with Nash and Zherdev there is no hope for him.

[Boston_Habs]

Rimmer said:

yes, if BG would consider Svitov an important piece of our future (2nd/3rd line center). as I said in another thread, where did all these " don't touch the roster!" talk suddenly come from? because we have a litttle winning streak and making the playoffs becomes more of a reality, the emphasis now turns from improving and building the team, which will eventually compete for the Cup, to this season and making the playoffs at all cost? do we realy see Rivet and PB as important parts of our Cup winning team 5 years from now? do we, or better yet, does BG see Svitov as one? if BG and co. don't have a problem with possibly jeopardizing our playoff chances by making as better for years to come, then neither should we.

anyway, maybe it's easy for me to look at it that way since the team has already exceeded my pre-season expectations (80 pts, 10th place) and I see playoffs this year as an added bonus.

R.

Great post! Where the heck did all this "don't mess with a good thing" nonsense come from? First everyone is saying that this year's team sucks, we should be building for the future...... now we have a little success and everyone is saying that we shouldn't mess with it.

Explain, yourself BC. If Gainey can make a trade that trades short term success for long term stability, isn't that what you and many others have been advocating? You yourself said that the 2003-04 Habs would be horrible and we should just hold our noses until the season was over. Now you shudder at the prospect of trading Rivet for Svitov because you don't want to see Patrick Traverse on the ice for 20 minutes and gassing our immediate hopes of a 6-8 playoff spot. To me that is short-term thinking.

Assuming that TB would have been interested in Rivet plus a pick for Svitov, I would have been all over that trade like white on rice. Maybe Gainey then flips another pick/prosect for a veteran dman to help fill the void, but assuming Svitov is for real, that is EXACTLY the kind of team building trade we should expect from Gainey.

[BadCompany]

Rimmer said:

yes, if BG would consider Svitov an important piece of our future (2nd/3rd line center). as I said in another thread, where did all these " don't touch the roster!" talk suddenly come from? because we have a litttle winning streak and making the playoffs becomes more of a reality, the emphasis now turns from improving and building the team, which will eventually compete for the Cup, to this season and making the playoffs at all cost? do we realy see Rivet and PB as important parts of our Cup winning team 5 years from now? do we, or better yet, does BG see Svitov as one? if BG and co. don't have a problem with possibly jeopardizing our playoff chances by making as better for years to come, then neither should we.

anyway, maybe it's easy for me to look at it that way since the team has already exceeded my pre-season expectations (80 pts, 10th place) and I see playoffs this year as an added bonus.



LD -> Souray, Markov, Bouillon
RD -> Quintal, PB/Rivet, Komisarek/Dykhuis/Hainsey

so, essentially, you would have one of the 3 mentioned above or some rental veteran playing as a 6th dman. not as good as now, but not critical either, IMHO of course.

R.

The problem is, it sends a lousy message to the team; "hey, thanks for all the hard work, the buying into the system, the standing up for each other and the organization, but really, you guys haven't got a chance."

Gainey and Julien have done an excellent job of building back the magic that comes with wearing a Montreal Canadiens sweater. The organizational pride. The class. Do for us, and we do for you. Started with Brisebois and Theodore being defended, and continued with the Ribeiro, Dagenais, Audette etc. benchings. Give your all for us, and we will give our all for you. Loyalty.

But if they trade a core player for a prospect in the middle of a playoff race?? Yeesh. Sounds like something Edmonton would do. Not the Montreal Canadiens.

[AH]

But Tampa Bay was not interested in Rivet + a pick. Sydor is a much better defenseman than Pierre Mcguire's Love Child.

So BH, your whole point is moot.

[Boston_Habs]

AH said:

But Tampa Bay was not interested in Rivet + a pick. Sydor is a much better defenseman than Pierre Mcguire's Love Child.

So BH, your whole point is moot.

I know TB probably wouldn't have done that deal. My only point was to try and explore the logic behind NOT making a move now because you don't want to mess with the chemistry and send the wrong message to the players. It's a tough call.

[Boston_Habs]

BadCompany said:

The problem is, it sends a lousy message to the team; "hey, thanks for all the hard work, the buying into the system, the standing up for each other and the organization, but really, you guys haven't got a chance."

But if they trade a core player for a prospect in the middle of a playoff race?? Yeesh. Sounds like something Edmonton would do. Not the Montreal Canadiens.

Hmmmm. I agree it's a delicate balance, but if Gainey moves quickly to shore up the loss of Rivet with a servicable right-handed defenseman, then is it really a crushing loss? I think you are getting too enamoured with the success of THIS YEAR's team and not looking down the road.

Again, we are not a Stanley Cup team. Imagine the scenario where we make the playoffs and get bounced in the 1st round and then we find out that we could have acquired a guy like Svitov for Rivet (who is a marginal top 4 dman) and a pick. I agree it's deicate balance, but I don't want Gainey to shy away from making a good trade for the organization because he's afraid of ruffling a few feathers. These guys are professionals. Plus we're not talking about Koivu, Souray, or Theo - those guys would be VERY hard to part with given their respective contributions this year. But Craig Rivet?

[BadCompany]

Boston_Habs said:

Great post! Where the heck did all this "don't mess with a good thing" nonsense come from? First everyone is saying that this year's team sucks, we should be building for the future...... now we have a little success and everyone is saying that we shouldn't mess with it.

Explain, yourself BC. If Gainey can make a trade that trades short term success for long term stability, isn't that what you and many others have been advocating? You yourself said that the 2003-04 Habs would be horrible and we should just hold our noses until the season was over. Now you shudder at the prospect of trading Rivet for Svitov because you don't want to see Patrick Traverse on the ice for 20 minutes and gassing our immediate hopes of a 6-8 playoff spot. To me that is short-term thinking.

Assuming that TB would have been interested in Rivet plus a pick for Svitov, I would have been all over that trade like white on rice. Maybe Gainey then flips another pick/prosect for a veteran dman to help fill the void, but assuming Svitov is for real, that is EXACTLY the kind of team building trade we should expect from Gainey.

Because things are different now. Now, it means something to be a Montreal Canadien. Craig Rivet knows that. Patrice Brisebois knows that. Does Alexander Svitov?

This isn't the Michel Therrien/Andre Savard Canadiens anymore. Players want to play for Montreal. That's a fragile and precious thing. If Montreal misses the playoffs again, in part because Komisarek/Dykhuis/Hainsey/Traverse aren't able to pick up the 20 minute slack, what will the mood in Montreal be?

As many have said, chemistry is a dangerous thing to play with. Right now, its good. Start mucking with the lineup, and who knows? A trade for a player like Svitov will be available in the off season, or at the draft, it always is. Make those deals then, when the impact on the dressing room is minimal.

I never expected Montreal to be where they are now, and I never, ever expected Bob Gainey's influence to be as huge, as quick, as it has been. I thought it would take 2, 3, 4 years to build the pride back up, and that it would come on the backs of guys like Komisarek, Higgins, Hainsey and so on. Instead, guys like Brisebois, and Ribeiro, and Rivet, and Souray and Bouillon have bought into it. And they are playing the best hockey of their careers (well, maybe not Rivet, though he hasn't been as bad as people make him out to be). Its those guys who will pass on the "new" Habs attitude to guys like Higgins and Komisarek and so on. You dump guys like that now, for and what do you achieve? In 2-3 years, you may have a good 2nd line center? At what price? A New York Islander like attitude, where it means nothing to wear the sweater, and where you know your GM will dump you regardless of what you do on the ice?

This trade wouldn't have been just Svitov for Rivet. It would have been Rivet and a year's work of chemistry building for Svitov. Last year, I would have made that deal. This year, with the new attitude?