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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 27, 2013 11:29:55 GMT -5
They fired their head scout, Kevin Pendergrast (formerly with the Oilers years ago, I believe). That's probably a good start, but usually it's a management issue higher up. I hadn't heard if there were any changes higher up the food chain that would auger well. I just saw that Hockey Canada let both Pendergrast (yes he was Assistant GM with the Oil before the HC job) and Ron Tugnutt go on Friday. I guess the lack of gold medals under his watch made him a casualty. I actually thought Team Canada had a very decent lineup this past year, other than their goalie selections. They picked the wrong two of the four invited to selection camp...oh well. Now we have a junior goalie crisis in Canada. Tell that to the U-18 team who won gold this year against the powerhouse US National Development team who plays all season together. Part of the challenge is how they use their guys. They tend to select players who are stars on their teams and who play big line minutes. When you then "convert" these guys to checking line forwards or rarely used guys, that sometimes works and other times it does not. The team really does not have much preparation time to see if those guys are able to adapt to their new roles. While it was good to give a potential superstar like MacKinnon some exposure to the World Juniors at an early age, he clearly would have had a better showing if he was used more akin to how he was used in Halifax. It is also a lot about instant chemistry. If the coaching staff and players find it quickly, then they can have success in a short tournament like the WJC. If not, then many a good team on paper has very quickly underachieved.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 29, 2013 23:01:40 GMT -5
With CHI winning and the first two rounds complete, we now know with certainty our draft order.
1st round - 25th 2nd round - 34th (NSH) 2nd round - 36th (CAL) 2nd round - 55th 3rd round - 71st (DAL) 3rd round - 86th 6th round - 176th 7th round - 206th
Time to do a little draft research (it has already started as you can imagine!) and get a list of prospective kids with each of our picks and eventually a mock draft within the next three weeks or so. Probably will have limited accessibility/connectivity around the draft, so will post some thoughts before the draft and once I get back a few days later.
I know during regular years, TSN has covered the Friday night first round and then it is over to NHL Netwwork for Day two and the rest of the rounds (2-7). Not sure if TSN will cut out at some point on Sunday, June 30th as they are doing all 7 rounds in one go this year due to the lockout.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 31, 2013 1:03:41 GMT -5
With CHI winning and the first two rounds complete, we now know with certainty our draft order. 1st round - 25th 2nd round - 34th (NSH) 2nd round - 36th (CAL) 2nd round - 55th 3rd round - 71st (DAL) 3rd round - 86th 6th round - 176th 7th round - 206th Time to do a little draft research (it has already started as you can imagine!) and get a list of prospective kids with each of our picks and eventually a mock draft within the next three weeks or so. Probably will have limited accessibility/connectivity around the draft, so will post some thoughts before the draft and once I get back a few days later. I know during regular years, TSN has covered the Friday night first round and then it is over to NHL Netwwork for Day two and the rest of the rounds (2-7). Not sure if TSN will cut out at some point on Sunday, June 30th as they are doing all 7 rounds in one go this year due to the lockout. With Mackinnon, Drouin and Jones (in that order) out of reach, can we move up to get Mantha using our 25th and 36th picks? We may need to advance 4 to 8 slots.
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Post by blny on May 31, 2013 6:24:31 GMT -5
I think moving up is going to be really expensive. Few sellers, and lots of would be buyers, will drive up the price. Might take those first three picks to move up to get into the top 15.
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Post by seventeen on May 31, 2013 12:32:32 GMT -5
Once you're out of a certain range (for example the top 5 picks would be one group and then perhaps the next 10 or so) the difference in quality, while still high, is not appreciably different, so moving up only makes sense if you move into a different quality grouping. And that, as you say, will be expensive. I'm happy picking where we are. There are still going to be lots of good prospects available 25-35.
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Post by Andrew on May 31, 2013 14:01:28 GMT -5
Once you're out of a certain range (for example the top 5 picks would be one group and then perhaps the next 10 or so) the difference in quality, while still high, is not appreciably different, so moving up only makes sense if you move into a different quality grouping. And that, as you say, will be expensive. I'm happy picking where we are. There are still going to be lots of good prospects available 25-35. I agree that the Habs are better off going with the shotgun approach and using all 4 top 60 picks, if this draft is as deep as has been predicted. Odds are greater that they'll land an impact player, than if they put all their eggs in one basket to move up 10-15 spots.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 31, 2013 14:10:35 GMT -5
Once you're out of a certain range (for example the top 5 picks would be one group and then perhaps the next 10 or so) the difference in quality, while still high, is not appreciably different, so moving up only makes sense if you move into a different quality grouping. And that, as you say, will be expensive. I'm happy picking where we are. There are still going to be lots of good prospects available 25-35. You are correct. One of my assertions is that the other GM's are not stupid and know the value and limitations of Ryder, Markov and Plekanec. I see a big droppoff after the first three and again after the first eight. After that they all have potential and warts. You pick based upon taking a chance that the warts can be overcome and your needs. Potential/risk, offense/defensive play, size/speed, scoring/passing, character/talent, checking/courage, shot/skating and on and on. Getting zero for Ryder by letting him go is not good asset management. Ebay is full of people that want my wifes discards and will pay (present company excluded). Ryder may have more value to a team with a center in need of a sniper. I see a lot of players picked by the Habs after the first round, many more than will ever lace a skate in the tri-colore.
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Post by Patty Roy on May 31, 2013 14:20:55 GMT -5
With Mackinnon, Drouin and Jones (in that order) out of reach, can we move up to get Mantha using our 25th and 36th picks? We may need to advance 4 to 8 slots. Why Mantha? He's a big body but from what i've heard he shies away from traffic and doesn't play a physical game at all.
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Post by Andrew on May 31, 2013 15:09:05 GMT -5
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Post by blny on May 31, 2013 15:59:53 GMT -5
Zykov is interesting. I'm trying to recall what I saw from the the Baie Comeau/Halifax game I was able to get to. He was definitely one of their best players. I can't recall if he was a complete perimeter player or not. This vid shows him going to the net, and playing a very north south game. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGaDF4ZWPrcHe's only got one year of junior under his belt. Here's a video of him done by local media guy John Moore: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDDoe1bnCjEEnglish is pretty good. He wanted to come to Canada. Wasn't getting a lot of ice in Russia. He had a strong finish to the season. At the time of the interview, he was less than a ppg. Pretty well spoken kid. Here's Craig Button's take: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMGmqA2FrjM
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 31, 2013 16:22:06 GMT -5
I'd package the 1st pick and possibly Plekanec for an impact winger or dman.
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Post by Patty Roy on May 31, 2013 20:56:36 GMT -5
lastwordonsports.com/2013-nhl-draft-headquarters/I got the above link from the other draft thread...just one guys opinion, but if we were to assume for a second that the draft were to more or less go down this way we'd potentially be looking at the following out of the first two rounds: 1st - 25th - Valentin Zykov 6'1" 215 RWBig and skilled (40 goals in the Q, 10 in 19 playoff games). Reportedly interviewed quite well with the Habs at the combine. 2nd - 34th - Samuel Morin 6'7" 203 DHUGE raw D out of the Q. Can play a physical game but also showed some progression in the offensive department as the season went on. 2nd - 36th - Ian McCoshen 6'3" 207 DRight up Timmins alley...draws some comparisons to McDonaugh. 2nd - 55th - Mike McCarron 6'5" 227 RW Big body, strong skating, physical forward. Questionable offensive upside. Of course the draft won't go exactly as laid out in those rankings, but this is certainly looking like a very deep draft and plenty of opportunity for the Habs to add size and skill to the system.
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Post by blny on May 31, 2013 21:46:14 GMT -5
Certainly addresses the size component, but I think back to the late 80s and early 90s and the run of WHL picks - all of whom were busts. From Bilodeau to Ward, it was one failure after another. Savard and company got caught up in drafting for size and supposed character. They completely forgot about skill and ability. I don't think Timmins and company will fall victim to that, but they can't draft size for the sake of it.
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Post by zenseeker on Jun 1, 2013 1:13:22 GMT -5
John Hayden North American Skater - USA U-18, USHL FINAL RANK: 29 MIDTERM RANK: 59 POSITION: Center SHOOTS: Right HEIGHT: 6' 2" WEIGHT: 220 BORN: February 14, 1995 BORN IN: Chicago, IL, USA
He had a good day at the combine 1st in pushups second in bench.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 1, 2013 7:59:10 GMT -5
Certainly addresses the size component, but I think back to the late 80s and early 90s and the run of WHL picks - all of whom were busts. From Bilodeau to Ward, it was one failure after another. Savard and company got caught up in drafting for size and supposed character. They completely forgot about skill and ability. I don't think Timmins and company will fall victim to that, but they can't draft size for the sake of it. I agree...and i'm certainly not opposed to them drafting smaller players if the skill and drive is there. I was just pointing out that there will be plenty of opportunity to address an organizational weakness that has been around for a decade. I would also note that of the 4 guys i listed above, 3 of them project to be top 2 line/top 4 d-men. There's skill there. McCarron's the one that maybe doesn't have the skill set normally required to go in the top 2 rounds. But if you're that big, a good skater and willing to play a physical game then i think he warrants consideration in the early rounds.
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Post by blny on Jun 1, 2013 9:47:28 GMT -5
Zykov and Morin look interesting. There's video here of both. Morin had a good U18 championship. Zykov is well spoken, and humble. He's willing to go to the net to score goals. Button compared him to Ryder in a March scouting report.
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Post by blny on Jun 1, 2013 10:56:09 GMT -5
John Hayden North American Skater - USA U-18, USHL FINAL RANK: 29 MIDTERM RANK: 59 POSITION: Center SHOOTS: Right HEIGHT: 6' 2" WEIGHT: 220 BORN: February 14, 1995 BORN IN: Chicago, IL, USA He had a good day at the combine 1st in pushups second in bench. I'm always a little concerned about a kid who halves his draft ranking simply by showing strength and stamina. Those are good qualities, but show nothing of hockey. You can work with a kid to improve their strength and stamina. Teaching inherent things, like scoring goals, is a lot harder to do. I'd be leery of drafting a kid who moved up simply because he's more physically developed at 18 than the next kid.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 1, 2013 12:59:46 GMT -5
With Mackinnon, Drouin and Jones (in that order) out of reach, can we move up to get Mantha using our 25th and 36th picks? We may need to advance 4 to 8 slots. Why Mantha? He's a big body but from what i've heard he shies away from traffic and doesn't play a physical game at all. Mantha has warts, consistancy, motivation, backchecking but he led the "Q" in goal scoring with 50 goals, so if he can score 50 showing up 1/2 the time he could score 100 if he learns to show up every night. Being 6'4" he may not slam other players but he doesn't get knocked down that easily. At that size he would stand out on the Hab's. It's harder to teach a player to score 50 goals than to teach him to backcheck. Gainey and Carbonneau scored in juniors but learned to play defensively as pros. He may need more close mentoring and time than some others, but the risk/reward is there more so than any sure thing that will be available at 25th pick. Maybe he's my new Corey Locke who is bigger and skates better. Reminds me of a young Phil Esposito in a hopeful way.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 1, 2013 13:29:31 GMT -5
Not knowing who may drop and land in our lap at 25th, I put the players in order and would pick whoever is highest ranked and still available when we pick. I indicated the ones that I would like to move up to get if they are still on the board and available in a reasonable pick exchange. They also represent need on our small fast team.
#2 Nathan MacKinnon, C 1NEED a superstar #1 Jonathan Drouin, LW 2NEED another Cournoyer-Shutt #3 Seth Jones, D 3WANT a possible Robinson #4 Aleksander Barkov, C/LW 4 #8 Valeri Nichushkin, RW/LW 5 #5 Elias Lindholm, C 6 #10 Darnell Nurse, D 7 #12 Nikita Zadorov, D 8 #6 Sean Monahan, C 9 #11 Hunter Shinkaruk, LW 10 #7 Ryan Pulock, D 11 #9 Rasmus Ristolainen, D 12 #14 Anthony Mantha, RW 13NEED size #21 Frederik Gauthier, C 14NEED size #18 Alexander Wennberg, C 15 #22 Kerby Rychel, RW/LW 16 #13 Max Domi, C 17 #20 Curtis Lazar, C 18 #19 Bo Horvat, C 19 #16 Adam Erne, RW 20 #28 Valentin Zykov, RW/LW 21 #36 Samuel Morin, D 22NEED toughness #37 Ian McCoshen, D 23NEED toughness #17 J.T. Compher, C/LW 24 #23 Robert Hagg, D 25 #15 Josh Morrissey, D 26 #25 Andre Burakovsky, LW 27 #27 Nicolas Petan, C 28 #32 Morgan Klimchuk, LW 29 #42 Anthony Duclair, LW 30
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 4, 2013 11:02:49 GMT -5
Hearing interesting things about Curtis Lazar of the Edmonton Oil Kings. Seems like a Tomas Plekanec type player.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 4, 2013 22:13:23 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 4, 2013 22:26:37 GMT -5
Hearing interesting things about Curtis Lazar of the Edmonton Oil Kings. Seems like a Tomas Plekanec type player. I think I saw him 24 times live this season! I am a fan. No way he should still be around...but if he is.....!!!
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 4, 2013 22:28:18 GMT -5
I like him too and hope we move up or he's still around.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 4, 2013 22:32:46 GMT -5
The Habs personal draft combine is tomorrow in Brossard. A mix of kids from the Q, big bodies, and goalies.
I really think our draft could go that direction.
This could be a really fun draft for us. We got some nice skilled forwards last draft. This one should be a goodie!
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 5, 2013 8:43:23 GMT -5
Hearing interesting things about Curtis Lazar of the Edmonton Oil Kings. Seems like a Tomas Plekanec type player. I think I saw him 24 times live this season! I am a fan. No way he should still be around...but if he is.....!!! CSB has him ranked #20 among NA skaters, so factoring in goalies and international players that could put him in range. FWIW, Craig Button has him ranked #32 on his draft board. Here's one scouting report on him (5'11", 190 lbs) "Skilled physical center who combines good playmaking skills and an accurate shot with grit. Reliable face-off man, relentless forechecker. A big-bodied player who sticks his nose in and can carry a significant amount of the on-ice load. Strong on his skates and good with his stick in traffic. Creates scoring chances with his quickness by forcing turnovers, and heavy pressure. Well rounded and smart on every part of the pond. Scored 30 goals as 16 year old in 2011-12, and will probably score at least that many this season. He possesses a quick release and very hard shot. Stats do not tell the full story on him, and his character and upside are such that he will be a total team player who might just surprise you when he starts lighting the lamp." Sounds great. Do you agree?
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Post by blny on Jun 5, 2013 9:53:11 GMT -5
5'11" 190 is big bodied?
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 5, 2013 10:57:02 GMT -5
It can be, especially if he's a thick kid with good lower body strength. But I think 190 lbs is pretty big for an 18-year old under 6 ft.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 5, 2013 12:35:34 GMT -5
I would never go so far as to say that's "big bodied" but he could be solid enough. Lazar sounds like a great option if he's still on the board. Timmins seemed quite interested in the thought of moving up in the 1st round, would love to know who the guys are that they'd be willing to move up on.
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Post by blny on Jun 5, 2013 12:51:51 GMT -5
No doubt some guys play bigger than the numbers would suggest. M
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 5, 2013 13:33:36 GMT -5
It can be, especially if he's a thick kid with good lower body strength. But I think 190 lbs is pretty big for an 18-year old under 6 ft. Realistically, losing our number one goal scorer, Ryder, a power play defenseman, Markov and a hard working two way center, Plekanec and then adding the 25th best kid in the draft while 24 other teams pick ahead of us does not bode well for next year. DD will improve on the top line with Pacioretty and sophomore slump Gallagher? Markov has to go but I doubt our first pick will make the team. Dropping Ryder does not improve our lack of a sniper. I see us fighting Toronto for eight place and unless we get goaltending help, struggling. Did I even mention pessimistic injuries?
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