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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 5, 2013 17:00:17 GMT -5
It can be, especially if he's a thick kid with good lower body strength. But I think 190 lbs is pretty big for an 18-year old under 6 ft. Realistically, losing our number one goal scorer, Ryder, a power play defenseman, Markov and a hard working two way center, Plekanec and then adding the 25th best kid in the draft while 24 other teams pick ahead of us does not bode well for next year. DD will improve on the top line with Pacioretty and sophomore slump Gallagher? Markov has to go but I doubt our first pick will make the team. Dropping Ryder does not improve our lack of a sniper. I see us fighting Toronto for eight place and unless we get goaltending help, struggling. Did I even mention pessimistic injuries? Goaltending is a concern for me as well. Price has not lived up to his salary. We could be stuck with Luongo, I guess. I don't know about Markov and I've wondered whether he actually reinjured himself. I mean, his play was brutal. Losing Ryder by just letting him go like that wasn't on, IMHO. I dare say he'd do well in Toronto. [postal]If he ends up there ... [/postal] Plekanec? All speculative. He's dedicated, signed and marketable. I wouldn't want to see him leave, but at the same time he doesn't seem to fit Bergevin's mold of player. As I was saying earlier, if Pleks is moved then the player(s) coming back had better reflect that change in philosophy. Anything less than that would be unacceptable. Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Jun 5, 2013 20:16:07 GMT -5
I don't see Plekanec being traded for spare parts, or the same type of player (unless he's younger). He's a very marketable two-way center. He should be able to net, on his own, a player capable of contributing offense akin to Ryder's normal production. Add in a piece, and maybe you get even more. It's all about identifying a team with need that has something we need.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 6, 2013 8:10:23 GMT -5
I don't see Plekanec being traded for spare parts, or the same type of player (unless he's younger). He's a very marketable two-way center. He should be able to net, on his own, a player capable of contributing offense akin to Ryder's normal production. Add in a piece, and maybe you get even more. It's all about identifying a team with need that has something we need. I don't think anyone is suggesting we trade Plekanec for spare parts. But if we were to deal him we'd likely be looking at getting younger players in return who are bigger bodies and are maybe a year away from playing top 2 lines. |
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Post by blny on Jun 6, 2013 9:08:30 GMT -5
I don't see Plekanec being traded for spare parts, or the same type of player (unless he's younger). He's a very marketable two-way center. He should be able to net, on his own, a player capable of contributing offense akin to Ryder's normal production. Add in a piece, and maybe you get even more. It's all about identifying a team with need that has something we need. I don't think anyone is suggesting we trade Plekanec for spare parts. But if we were to deal him we'd likely be looking at getting younger players in return who are bigger bodies and are maybe a year away from playing top 2 lines. I interpreted HFLA's post to mean he felt we wouldn't be able to get reasonable return. I think we can get more than a prospect or two. We might have to add, but I think there's a deal out there that can bring in a big body scoring forward. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 6, 2013 9:18:20 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is suggesting we trade Plekanec for spare parts. But if we were to deal him we'd likely be looking at getting younger players in return who are bigger bodies and are maybe a year away from playing top 2 lines. I interpreted HFLA's post to mean he felt we wouldn't be able to get reasonable return. I think we can get more than a prospect or two. We might have to add, but I think there's a deal out there that can bring in a big body scoring forward. I think so too, and if not you don't do a trade. I'm not interested in flipping Plekanec for future potential. Any trade involving him has to be a real "hockey trade" that makes us a better team right now. |
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Post by blny on Jun 6, 2013 9:41:23 GMT -5
I interpreted HFLA's post to mean he felt we wouldn't be able to get reasonable return. I think we can get more than a prospect or two. We might have to add, but I think there's a deal out there that can bring in a big body scoring forward. I think so too, and if not you don't do a trade. I'm not interested in flipping Plekanec for future potential. Any trade involving him has to be a real "hockey trade" that makes us a better team right now. That's my opinion too. The only way I'd trade him for a pick is if we stole a top five pick. There's a hockey deal to be made there imo. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 6, 2013 10:37:34 GMT -5
I think so too, and if not you don't do a trade. I'm not interested in flipping Plekanec for future potential. Any trade involving him has to be a real "hockey trade" that makes us a better team right now. That's my opinion too. The only way I'd trade him for a pick is if we stole a top five pick. There's a hockey deal to be made there imo. If the return is right even Gretzky gets traded. Pleks had a slight drop in production. He is a good two way player and his contribution is greater than his stats. Pleks for a top three pick in a heartbeat. I would trade Subban too if the return is greater. Heck, I would trade my wife for Angela Jolie and an 18 year old prospect! |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 20, 2013 12:04:52 GMT -5
To trade Pleks for a draft pick, he has to be top 5 or else it's not worth the risk. A proven player in hand beats anything but very high "potential".
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 20, 2013 12:29:02 GMT -5
To trade Pleks for a draft pick, he has to be top 5 or else it's not worth the risk. A proven player in hand beats anything but very high "potential". Watching the Hawks, i keep thinking that Plekanec would just be a terrific fit there. They're currently using Handzus on the 2nd line...i think they are as good a trading partner as any for us if we decide to move Pleks. |
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Post by PTH on Jun 24, 2013 14:14:46 GMT -5
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Post by Polarice on Jun 24, 2013 14:24:18 GMT -5
I would love to trade up to get Barkov. He could possibly be that big #1 center we've been wanting!!!
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Post by blny on Jun 24, 2013 16:03:39 GMT -5
I think we've got a top two in Galchenyuk and Eller. Eller is progressing in the same sort of manner that Plekanec did.
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Post by PTH on Jun 24, 2013 19:18:22 GMT -5
I think we've got a top two in Galchenyuk and Eller. Eller is progressing in the same sort of manner that Plekanec did. Yeah, and I like Eller. But I've always thought the best way to have a winning team year after year was to have two top centers, which makes it pretty certain you always have two scoring lines. I think Eller will at best be a good #2 guy, but not a guy who's part of a 1A/1B combo, which is what I really want. In my scheme of things, Eller would be a terrific #3, kind of like Dave Bolland is for Chicago these days. Of course, getting that extra top pick isn't going to happen, so it's not like we can easily project our pick being a top center.. (if we were picking 3d overall again, it would be a reasonable assumption, but at 25 it's very different). |
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Post by blny on Jun 24, 2013 20:02:02 GMT -5
I hear you. I think the only way to do that was to have tanked again this year and been in the running for MacKinnon or Drouin. Barkov is intriguing, but it's going to take a serious trade to make that happen. I suspect he'll go fourth or fifth. It would have to be a big deal to pry the pick away from Nashville or Carolina, and I don't see it. FWIW, this mock draft has us taking Zykov. www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=673461 |
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Post by PTH on Jun 24, 2013 20:15:56 GMT -5
Maybe Calgary would be willing to give up #6 in exchange for #25 and #34 as well as Kristo ?
(Assuming one of Monahan and Barkov is still on the table...)
Anyone not named Price, Galchenyuk and Subban would be on the table to be able to get a top pick if I were GM, and get that 1-2 punch. Of course, it all depends on what our scouts say; if they don't think the top-rated guys are likely to make it, you can't make a big trade. But man I'd like it if they did make that deal !!
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 25, 2013 8:30:10 GMT -5
Maybe Calgary would be willing to give up #6 in exchange for #25 and #34 as well as Kristo ? (Assuming one of Monahan and Barkov is still on the table...) Anyone not named Price, Galchenyuk and Subban would be on the table to be able to get a top pick if I were GM, and get that 1-2 punch. Of course, it all depends on what our scouts say; if they don't think the top-rated guys are likely to make it, you can't make a big trade. But man I'd like it if they did make that deal !! I think it would take quite a bit more than that to get Calgary to bite. Barkov will most likely be gone but Monahan should still be there. But i'm not sure that i'm super enthused about Monahan...statistically he plateaued as an 18 year old this past season which is always a warning sign. You could probably chalk that up to playing for a brutal team, but i'm not sure that he's the type of prospect that i'd sell the farm to trade up for. Barkov for sure, but we'd probably have to trade up to #4 to have any chance at him. |
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Post by franko on Jun 25, 2013 9:57:53 GMT -5
Monahan...statistically he plateaued as an 18 year old this past season which is always a warning sign. You could probably chalk that up to playing for a brutal team yes you could. kinda hard to carry a team like that. Monahan is a good solid piece |
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Post by PTH on Jun 25, 2013 11:25:04 GMT -5
I think it would take quite a bit more than that to get Calgary to bite. I know. I realised it rethinking the whole situation. We might have a chance to getting in the #15-#20 range, and who knows who might be available. There's an interesting clip on RDS with Bergevin basically saying at the end of the day, he might have 4, 6 or 8 picks in the draft; he also mentions how moving up to the top 5 is very expensive. |
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 25, 2013 12:34:28 GMT -5
I hear you. I think the only way to do that was to have tanked again this year and been in the running for MacKinnon or Drouin. Barkov is intriguing, but it's going to take a serious trade to make that happen. I suspect he'll go fourth or fifth. It would have to be a big deal to pry the pick away from Nashville or Carolina, and I don't see it. FWIW, this mock draft has us taking Zykov. www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=673461I don't think they will select Zykov. They say he is big, strong but not power forward. |
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Post by blny on Jun 25, 2013 13:33:26 GMT -5
I saw him against the Mooseheads. He's dynamic, but a perimeter player. To me, he's another Kostitsyn. Similar size and skill set.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 25, 2013 14:53:02 GMT -5
Maybe Calgary would be willing to give up #6 in exchange for #25 and #34 as well as Kristo ? (Assuming one of Monahan and Barkov is still on the table...) Anyone not named Price, Galchenyuk and Subban would be on the table to be able to get a top pick if I were GM, and get that 1-2 punch. Of course, it all depends on what our scouts say; if they don't think the top-rated guys are likely to make it, you can't make a big trade. But man I'd like it if they did make that deal !! I think there is a big dropoff after the top three (not much argument about who they are). Getting Mantha of Frederick or Petin isn't that much of a dropoff from #4 pick and could cost a lot less. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 25, 2013 17:30:22 GMT -5
Maybe Calgary would be willing to give up #6 in exchange for #25 and #34 as well as Kristo ? (Assuming one of Monahan and Barkov is still on the table...) Anyone not named Price, Galchenyuk and Subban would be on the table to be able to get a top pick if I were GM, and get that 1-2 punch. Of course, it all depends on what our scouts say; if they don't think the top-rated guys are likely to make it, you can't make a big trade. But man I'd like it if they did make that deal !! I think there is a big dropoff after the top three (not much argument about who they are). Getting Mantha of Frederick or Petin isn't that much of a dropoff from #4 pick and could cost a lot less. I'm just hoping Timins does well. Bigger,stronger, faster and talented. Seems it might be the right draft for this. Mantha would help things a bit. Cheers. |
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 25, 2013 19:21:22 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie just posted his Final rankings, historically the most accurate going into the draft as its more of a scouts consensus than an individuals rankings. www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9420Assuming for a second that these rankings are the gospel and that we could only pick players at or ranked later than the Habs picks (ex. with our 1st we can choose from anyone ranked 25 and later on Bob's list) these would be my picks for the top 3 rounds. 1st round (25th overall - Ryan Hartman (C/RW, 5'11" 185lbs) On paper sounds like a Mike Richards clone. Great leadership, no fun to play against, will do whatever it takes to win and has skill. 2nd round (34th overall) - Mike McCarron (RW 6'5" 228lbs) BIG body winger with skill and grit. Precisely what we need in the organization. 2nd round (36th overall) - Justin Bailey (C 6'3" 186lbs) Big frame C from the OHL who has some upside to his game. 2nd round (55th overall) - Jonathan Diaby (D 6'5" 250lbs) BIG mean stay at home D from the Q. 3rd round (71st overall) - Jordan Subban (D 5'9" 175lbs) Similar numbers to PK at the same age but small. The skill seems to be there, if he can get up to 190lbs could be a real player. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 25, 2013 21:17:55 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie just posted his Final rankings, historically the most accurate going into the draft as its more of a scouts consensus than an individuals rankings. www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9420Assuming for a second that these rankings are the gospel and that we could only pick players at or ranked later than the Habs picks (ex. with our 1st we can choose from anyone ranked 25 and later on Bob's list) these would be my picks for the top 3 rounds. 1st round (25th overall - Ryan Hartman (C/RW, 5'11" 185lbs) On paper sounds like a Mike Richards clone. Great leadership, no fun to play against, will do whatever it takes to win and has skill. 2nd round (34th overall) - Mike McCarron (RW 6'5" 228lbs) BIG body winger with skill and grit. Precisely what we need in the organization. 2nd round (36th overall) - Justin Bailey (C 6'3" 186lbs) Big frame C from the OHL who has some upside to his game. 2nd round (55th overall) - Jonathan Diaby (D 6'5" 250lbs) BIG mean stay at home D from the Q. 3rd round (71st overall) - Jordan Subban (D 5'9" 175lbs) Similar numbers to PK at the same age but small. The skill seems to be there, if he can get up to 190lbs could be a real player. EDIT: Internet Explorer sucks. I almost never use it. Today I did, and I've lost this post twice already. As always McKenzie's rankings are interesting and informative. Can't say I would be a big fan of the Hartman pick, but then I'm not really a big fan of the mouthy types in general. Especially not those in a 185lbs body. Granted, I see the benefit of having them around, but if Hartman doesn't develope the offensive potential then all you've really done is draft a jerk. Jerks can have their roles, but I'm not sure I would want to use a first round pick on one. Seems like jerks on the ice tend to be jerks off the ice as well. On the other hand, those Mike Richards comparisons sure are flattering... But wow, if we walk out of there with McCarron, Bailey, Diaby and Subban in the second and third rounds... wow. Talk about swinging for the fences! With one fell swoop we could change the face and character of the franchise for a decade! The upside with such a draft would be huge, no pun intended. I personally think McCarron will be gone before we pick, and that we are going to have to take Bailey with our first rounder, if he too isn't also gone by the time our turn comes up. I also think Diaby doesn't make it to 55 either. There are just too many teams saying they need to get bigger and stronger as an organization, with Edmonton being the latest just today. Moreso than ever I think you are going to see a premium placed on big guys, who were always highly thought of anyways. Perhaps not the smartest thing, but that's what I think is going to happen. So again, wow. If we walk out of there with those four guys... and Dickinson, or even Harman in the first... That would certainly get a thumbs up from me. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 25, 2013 21:27:24 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie just posted his Final rankings, historically the most accurate going into the draft as its more of a scouts consensus than an individuals rankings. www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9420Assuming for a second that these rankings are the gospel and that we could only pick players at or ranked later than the Habs picks (ex. with our 1st we can choose from anyone ranked 25 and later on Bob's list) these would be my picks for the top 3 rounds. 1st round (25th overall - Ryan Hartman (C/RW, 5'11" 185lbs) On paper sounds like a Mike Richards clone. Great leadership, no fun to play against, will do whatever it takes to win and has skill. 2nd round (34th overall) - Mike McCarron (RW 6'5" 228lbs) BIG body winger with skill and grit. Precisely what we need in the organization. 2nd round (36th overall) - Justin Bailey (C 6'3" 186lbs) Big frame C from the OHL who has some upside to his game. 2nd round (55th overall) - Jonathan Diaby (D 6'5" 250lbs) BIG mean stay at home D from the Q. 3rd round (71st overall) - Jordan Subban (D 5'9" 175lbs) Similar numbers to PK at the same age but small. The skill seems to be there, if he can get up to 190lbs could be a real player. Someone has already mentioned Frederik Gauthier. He's a local talent as well (Mascouche). If Bergevin does trade up, then I hope he considers this guy. Cheers. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 25, 2013 23:02:46 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie just posted his Final rankings, historically the most accurate going into the draft as its more of a scouts consensus than an individuals rankings. www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9420Assuming for a second that these rankings are the gospel and that we could only pick players at or ranked later than the Habs picks (ex. with our 1st we can choose from anyone ranked 25 and later on Bob's list) these would be my picks for the top 3 rounds. 1st round (25th overall - Ryan Hartman (C/RW, 5'11" 185lbs) On paper sounds like a Mike Richards clone. Great leadership, no fun to play against, will do whatever it takes to win and has skill. 2nd round (34th overall) - Mike McCarron (RW 6'5" 228lbs) BIG body winger with skill and grit. Precisely what we need in the organization. 2nd round (36th overall) - Justin Bailey (C 6'3" 186lbs) Big frame C from the OHL who has some upside to his game. 2nd round (55th overall) - Jonathan Diaby (D 6'5" 250lbs) BIG mean stay at home D from the Q. 3rd round (71st overall) - Jordan Subban (D 5'9" 175lbs) Similar numbers to PK at the same age but small. The skill seems to be there, if he can get up to 190lbs could be a real player. If we can use our five picks to move up and end up with three choices, Mantha, Diaby and Subban, I am a happy fan. You can't teach size and you can't teach talent either. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 26, 2013 0:58:07 GMT -5
As always McKenzie's rankings are interesting and informative. Can't say I would be a big fan of the Hartman pick, but then I'm not really a big fan of the mouthy types in general. Especially not those in a 185lbs body. Granted, I see the benefit of having them around, but if Hartman doesn't develope the offensive potential then all you've really done is draft a jerk. Jerks can have their roles, but I'm not sure I would want to use a first round pick on one. Seems like jerks on the ice tend to be jerks off the ice as well. On the other hand, those Mike Richards comparisons sure are flattering... But wow, if we walk out of there with McCarron, Bailey, Diaby and Subban in the second and third rounds... wow. Talk about swinging for the fences! With one fell swoop we could change the face and character of the franchise for a decade! The upside with such a draft would be huge, no pun intended. I personally think McCarron will be gone before we pick, and that we are going to have to take Bailey with our first rounder, if he too isn't also gone by the time our turn comes up. I also think Diaby doesn't make it to 55 either. There are just too many teams saying they need to get bigger and stronger as an organization, with Edmonton being the latest just today. Moreso than ever I think you are going to see a premium placed on big guys, who were always highly thought of anyways. Perhaps not the smartest thing, but that's what I think is going to happen. So again, wow. If we walk out of there with those four guys... and Dickinson, or even Harman in the first... That would certainly get a thumbs up from me. Just watched McKenzie's picks on TSN and you have to admit, he has an 85% accuracy rate on his first rounders, so some of those picks may not be so outrageously lucky. He has Sam Morin going at #17, much higher than I'd hoped, but I can't help but agree after watching clips of Morin at the Worlds under 18. He also has Max Domi at #10, way higher than a lot of others, and again, I have to agree. I've liked him a lot and he didn't disappoint at the MEm Cup. The puck follows that kid around. Anyway, my point is that some of the players I've really liked, are much higher on Bob's list than I wished for, and Craig Button on the other hand, has a bunch of guys going earlier than I expected. I have very little opinion of Button's talent evaluation abilities, so I think Bob's pretty close. That means that for our first three picks we'll be looking at guys like Burakovsky, Zykov, Hartman, Robert Hagg (who?  ), Josh Morrisey, Delarose, Klimchuk, McCarron, and Compher. Or maybe some guys ranked 20-24 will drop to 25. That can happen, too. Those names include Kerby Rychel, Frederik Gauthier,and Ryan Pulock. PS. I'm not crazy about Delarose. Guy can't score. |
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 26, 2013 8:19:10 GMT -5
Re: Hartman - I've read some good things but outside of a game at the World Juniors i haven't seen him play. He's my pick at 25 (of the guy ranked 25th and later on McKenzie's list) but that's assuming he's more Mike Richards than Dan Carcillo. Zykov sounds interesting and he reportedly interviewed quite well, but i just can't shake the imagine of Andrei Kostitsyn when i think of him.
I think McCarron will be there at 25, but probably not at 34. So if the Habs love him they need to take him at 25 i think.
Same with Diaby...i think he will be there with our early 2nd rounders but will go before we draft at 55. Again if the Habs like him we may want to sacrifice a later pick to move into the mid 2nd round to grab him.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 26, 2013 14:13:56 GMT -5
Guys like Rychel, Hartman, and Compher all seem to fit the bill as the type of player that Bergevin covets. I recall Berg quoted as saying he wants players that hate to lose, and these guys appear to have that mentality. It will be interesting to see how much of an importance is placed on these qualities on draft day.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 26, 2013 18:26:59 GMT -5
Re: Hartman - I've read some good things but outside of a game at the World Juniors i haven't seen him play. He's my pick at 25 (of the guy ranked 25th and later on McKenzie's list) but that's assuming he's more Mike Richards than Dan Carcillo. Zykov sounds interesting and he reportedly interviewed quite well, but i just can't shake the imagine of Andrei Kostitsyn when i think of him. I think McCarron will be there at 25, but probably not at 34. So if the Habs love him they need to take him at 25 i think. Same with Diaby...i think he will be there with our early 2nd rounders but will go before we draft at 55. Again if the Habs like him we may want to sacrifice a later pick to move into the mid 2nd round to grab him. Apparently, Zykov did very well at the combine. Cheers. |
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), Josh Morrisey, Delarose, Klimchuk,