Milroy vs. Balej

[Bob]

For those who lamented the loss of Jozef Balen, Milroy's stats are very similar to those that have been put up by Balej so far this season.

Of course it is still far too early in either career to determine what kind of player each will be but Balej seems to be a long way from a 30 goal scorer in the NHL at this point.

[blaise]

I happened to watch Balej on TV against the Manchester Monarchs. I can see improvement in his overall game. He's a better skater than Milroy. However, I wouldn't go out on a limb and predict he'll become a 30-goal scorer in the NHL.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

I was/am a Balej supporter and I'm more than a little surprised at his lack of production this year. Still much too soon to write him off. My bet is he does become a 30 goal scorer for the Rangers before Special K does for the Hab's.

[blaise]

I'd take you up on that bet, except that it'll take a few years to determine the winner, and by then the bet will have been forgotten.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Blaise said:

I'd take you up on that bet, except that it'll take a few years to determine the winner, and by then the bet will have been forgotten.

I've been wrong before and I remember my wrongs as well as my rights.

My picks in the draft have been:

Nikita Alexeev
Steve Bernier
Jiri Hudler
Corey Locke

My picks for stardom included Gilbert Dionne and Steve Begin.

My favorite whipping boys included Rucinsky, Audette, Kovalev, Traverse, Brisebois, Cerkawski.

My sure thing is Sidney Crosby.

I like to shoot for the fence with draft picks, high risk, high reward.

[Deleted]

Habs_fan_in_LA said:

I like to shoot for the fence with draft picks, high risk, high reward.

Long way down if you miss.

[blaise]

Balej ended his prolonged goalless streak (I believe it was 17 games) against Providence last night. On a two-on-one he accepted a pass and roofed a sharply angled shot against Hannu Toivonen. Hartford won the game on a shootout but Balej didn't score on his turn. He now has a total of 4 goals for the season.

[montreal]

Blaise said:

Balej ended his prolonged goalless streak (I believe it was 17 games) against Providence last night. On a two-on-one he accepted a pass and roofed a sharply angled shot against Hannu Toivonen. Hartford won the game on a shootout but Balej didn't score on his turn. He now has a total of 4 goals for the season.

It was a nice goal, I watced the game or some of it as I get a lot of wolfpack games. Ryan Glenn also played after being called up from the ECHL.

Tonight they are showing Norfolk (Hawks) vs San Antonio (panthers) but I turned it off since the game sucked. I can only watch a team ice the puck so much.

[blaise]

I reminded myself to do an update on Jozef Balej to see if he had turned into Guy Lafleur yet. Currently he's 5 11 16 -5 in 32 games for the Hartford Wolf Pack.

[Deleted]

Looks like Balej can't do much with a weaker team around him.

[montreal]

Balej had 2 goals tonight, and I believe he's got 9 now. He had 26 last year but likely would have had a few more if he didn't play with the rangers.

[blaise]

At the moment Balej is 8-13-21 -4 in 34 games. Better than before, but not remarkable.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Milroy: 36 games, 6-10-16, -5, 47 shots, 12.8%, 4 PP goals, 0.44 ppg

Balej: 34 games, 8-13-21, -4, 111 shots, 7.2%, 3 PP goals, 0.62 ppg

Kovalev: 14 games, 3-6-9, 0.64 ppg

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

M. said:

Milroy: 36 games, 6-10-16, -5, 47 shots, 12.8%, 4 PP goals, 0.44 ppg

Balej: 34 games, 8-13-21, -4, 111 shots, 7.2%, 3 PP goals, 0.62 ppg

Kovalev: 14 games, 3-6-9, 0.64 ppg

I'd like to compare Balej and Kovalev's stats in the year 2007

[blaise]

Habs_fan_in_LA said:

I'd like to compare Balej and Kovalev's stats in the year 2007

First let's compare Balej with his Hartford Wolf Pack AHL teammates. He's sixth in scoring on his team, and he's the only one of the top 12 scorers with a minus rating. That's not auspicious, is it?

[Bob]

Hartford over Bridgeport in a shootout. Balej wasn't one of the five shooters chosen by Hartford.

[blaise]

People, get over it. Balej wasn't the best Habs prospect.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Blaise said:

People, get over it. Balej wasn't the best Habs prospect.

If not, just goes to show what Kovalev was worth.

BTW, Balej leads the first-overall Wolfpack in shots with 125. His scoring % is a low 7.2. Seems like he's experienced some bad luck. If he'd been clicking at the average rate of 10% he would have 13 goals, which would place him second on Hartford. Besides, his 22 points would put him third on the Bulldogs, only 3 behind the leader.

Balej at this juncture seems to me to have a brighter NHL future ahead of him than Kovalev (let's face it, this thread is really about Jozef and the amazing inconsistency whose name should not be but has been mentioned, not Duncan Milroy), who wouldn't surprise me by remaining in Russia after the new CBA is signed.

[blaise]

I suppose the Hartford coach didn't use him in the shootout because Balej is "unlucky."

There's unintentional irony in the post by M. Beaux-Eaux, who defends Balej on the grounds of total shots taken despite the low number that resulted in goals. I have often insisted that shooting percentage is not a particularly meaningful statistic while shots on goal is, because it can lead to rebounds (as well as goals). M. Beaux-Eaux, on the other hand, prizes shooting percentage and wonders why players with high percentages but low shot totals don't shoot more often. Trouble is, many of those players with high percentages and low shot totals don't have potent shots. In most cases they need rebounds, empty nets, or pure luck (shots caroming in off their backs, etc.). Thus their shooting percentages tend to vary from season to season. I don't disparage Balej's high shots total. Thats all to the good. Most of the perennial high goal scorers do take lots of shots. They don't all have the same style (Phil Esposito and Dave Andreychuk vs. Mike Bossy and Guy Lafleur, for example) but they have common denominators.;

[NWTHabsFan]

Blaise said:

People, get over it. Balej wasn't the best Habs prospect.

He wasn't, but he still was a good one IMO. His problem was that there were two younger offensive RW'ers named Perezhogin and Kostitsyn who had greater upside that made him expendible. Milroy, on the other hand, brings a less flashier style of game, can still score, but also is more physical along the boards. Ferland complements the RW troupe with a good hard working, solid checking effort every night.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Blaise said:

I suppose the Hartford coach didn't use him in the shootout because Balej is "unlucky."

Could be. Hockey is rife with superstitions.

I have often insisted that shooting percentage is not a particularly meaningful statistic while shots on goal is, because it can lead to rebounds (as well as goals).

Can't have one without the other. No shot, no goal.

M. Beaux-Eaux, on the other hand, prizes shooting percentage and wonders why players with high percentages but low shot totals don't shoot more often.

I can't say that he does. Where and when did he say such a thing? Seems to me to be a whimsical atrribution.

Trouble is, many of those players with high percentages and low shot totals don't have potent shots.

Source(s)?

The old Soviet teams were notorious for their low shot totals and high scoring percentages. I guess one should have expected that from such a limp-wristed bunch of players.

Accuracy, not velocity and quantity alone, is what nets goals.

In most cases they need rebounds, empty nets, or pure luck (shots caroming in off their backs, etc.). Thus their shooting percentages tend to vary from season to season.

Evidence?

Any player who lacks accuracy, whether he shoots hard or not, is likely to see his shot % fluctuate.

The name of the game is not how hard the shot or how many of them, but how often relative to the opportunities one is presented with that one puts the shot past the goalie.

Balej has been too good a player at every level thus far to remain in a scoring slump for too long. He'll find his touch.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

M. said:

If not, just goes to show what Kovalev was worth.

BTW, Balej leads the first-overall Wolfpack in shots with 125. His scoring % is a low 7.2. Seems like he's experienced some bad luck. If he'd been clicking at the average rate of 10% he would have 13 goals, which would place him second on Hartford. Besides, his 22 points would put him third on the Bulldogs, only 3 behind the leader.

Balej at this juncture seems to me to have a brighter NHL future ahead of him than Kovalev (let's face it, this thread is really about Jozef and the amazing inconsistency whose name should not be but has been mentioned, not Duncan Milroy), who wouldn't surprise me by remaining in Russia after the new CBA is signed.

Absolutely right. This is not about Milroy vs. Balej. It's Kovalev vs. Balej.

As a big supporter of Balej, I am disapointed with his seasons production. Injury? Sophomore jinx? Bad luck?
He hasn't been terrible. He still has blazing speed (faster than any Hab including Higgins ((and Locke LOL))). He still is young. He's on a new team. He's outscored Kastitsyn. He is not a scoring machine, he's a speedster.
I believe next year will be much better for him. I think Kovalev is going to be a year older and a step slower, if he's with us at all, if there is a season at all?
Right now, given the opportunity to take back Balej for the rights to sign Kovalev, I'd take Balej in a heartbeat.
As for Milroy, smallish power forward, rugged, natural scorer, hockey sense. I'd keep him over the rights to sign Kovalev too.
Kovalev, big, strong, supremely talented, extremely good when motivated, excellent playoff performer, never achieved his potential and not getting any younger.
I'd trade Milroy, Higgins, Balej, Kastitsyn, Perezhoegin and Kovalev for Crosby without blinking.

[blaise]

M. said:

Could be. Hockey is rife with superstitions.



I can't say that he does. Where and when did he say such a thing? Seems to me to be a whimsical atrribution.


Source(s)?

Not whimsical at all. It is very much to the point. Look up your comments last season about Ribeiro. You distinctly said he should shoot more often because of his high percentage. I in turn scoffed at this suggestion because Ribeiro doesn't have a great shot, and a number of his goals were empty netters or off-the-body bounces. In most situations he's better off passing to Ryder or Dagenais.

[blaise]

Habs_fan_in_LA said:

Absolutely right. This is not about Milroy vs. Balej. It's Kovalev vs. Balej.

As a big supporter of Balej, I am disapointed with his seasons production. Injury? Sophomore jinx? Bad luck?
He hasn't been terrible. He still has blazing speed (faster than any Hab including Higgins ((and Locke LOL))). He still is young. He's on a new team. He's outscored Kastitsyn. He is not a scoring machine, he's a speedster.
I believe next year will be much better for him. I think Kovalev is going to be a year older and a step slower, if he's with us at all, if there is a season at all?
Right now, given the opportunity to take back Balej for the rights to sign Kovalev, I'd take Balej in a heartbeat.
As for Milroy, smallish power forward, rugged, natural scorer, hockey sense. I'd keep him over the rights to sign Kovalev too.
Kovalev, big, strong, supremely talented, extremely good when motivated, excellent playoff performer, never achieved his potential and not getting any younger.
I'd trade Milroy, Higgins, Balej, Kastitsyn, Perezhoegin and Kovalev for Crosby without blinking.

You can't undo the trade. Moreover, Kovalev's production in the playoffs made me happy. Do you doubt that the Bruins would have eliminated the Habs if Balej had been in the lineup instead? I would have hated it if that had happened. Balej probably wouldn't be essential to the Habs in the next few years and he would have to beat out a lot of RWs (you named them, and I would add Ryder and perhaps Zednik to the list, since he plays both wings) to make the team.

Without the lockout the Habs could have had both Kovalev and Milroy. And is Milroy smallish at 6', 200 lb?

The comment about Crosby is hypothetical and irrelevant to this discussion. Besides, I'm not sure I would make that trade even though I recognize Crosby's gifts.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

It took you longer than usual to get around to your favourite player.

Blaise said:

Not whimsical at all. It is very much to the point. Look up your comments last season about Ribeiro. You distinctly said he should shoot more often because of his high percentage.

Guy Charron said he should shoot more. I agreed with Guy.

I in turn scoffed at this suggestion because Ribeiro doesn't have a great shot,

Once again, a hard shot is not necessary in order to score goals.

and a number of his goals were empty netters or off-the-body bounces.

Where is your statistical proof?

In most situations he's better off passing to Ryder or Dagenais.

You say that only because you would rather not see him score goals.

I recall a fair number of high-light reel goals scored by Ribeiro, where he eluded defenders and masterfully ended the play by deking the goalie and flipping (not winding up and blasting) the puck into the net.

Ribeiro has a tendency to wait too often to dish the puck rather than seizing the opportunity for himself. Time and experience will change that and you will have the pleasure of seeing him score more often.

[blaise]

M. said:

It took you longer than usual to get around to your favourite player.


Guy Charron said he should shoot more. I agreed with Guy.


Once again, a hard shot is not necessary in order to score goals.
But it helps.T

Where is your statistical proof?
They don't keep statistics on inadvertent goals but I recall a few. Go back over the 81 games in which he played and count the ENGs.

You say that only because you would rather not see him score goals.
You're projecting. And inaccurate. I really wanted him to score scores in the playoffs but he failed to comply.
I recall a fair number of high-light reel goals scored by Ribeiro, where he eluded defenders and masterfully ended the play by deking the goalie and flipping (not winding up and blasting) the puck into the net.
So he did. But as in the case of inadvertent goals there no statistics. Can you enumerate them?

Ribeiro has a tendency to wait too often to dish the puck rather than seizing the opportunity for himself. Time and experience will change that and you will have the pleasure of seeing him score more often.

Fine, I wish he would and in that way ease my doubts about him.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Blaise said:

But it helps.T

Not necessarily. As my homeboy HFLA can attest, Terry Harper had one of the hardest shots in the league but was lucky to score a couple of goals a year. If you miss the net or hit the goalie 95% of the time it really doesn't matter how hard you shoot. Now some fellers can blast 'em right where they want 'em to go.

They don't keep statistics on inadvertent goals but I recall a few. Go back over the 81 games in which he played and count the ENGs.

Since you brought the issue up the honour is all yours.

You're projecting. And inaccurate.

You see, just blasting away isn't a guarantee of scoring.

I really wanted him to score scores in the playoffs but he failed to comply.

I recall your enthusiasm.

So he did. But as in the case of inadvertent goals there no statistics. Can you enumerate them?

Unfortunately not, but I can cherish the warm fuzzy fragmented memories, just as you can relish the empty-net and deflection goals.

Fine, I wish he would and in that way ease my doubts about him.

How can you have doubts about a player who in his first full NHL season finished 12th among all players at his position in points, 22nd in goals, 7th in assists, 17th in +/-, 26th in even strength goals, 19th in power play goals, 10th in game winning goals, and 3rd in shot %?

He managed to accomplish the above despite ranking 59th in average ice-time per game at his position as a 24 year-old second line centre.

[cue playoffs monologue]

[Bob]

Mr. Beaux-Eaux, you misread my intentions regarding this post. It was indeed a comparison between Milroy and Balej and the purpose of the post was to illustrate that the Habs did not give up too much when they traded for Kovalev.

Milroy and Balej have different skill sets. Balej is a gifted offensive player who needs to play on one of the first two lines. Milroy has some scoring talent but seems like he might be a better two-way player who could fit on the 2nd or 3rd line.

With the emergence of Perezhogin and the drafting of Kostitsyn, there wasn't going to be much room left for Balej. He wouldn't have had a chance to blossom in Montreal.

Therefore the trade was good for both sides. Balej gets his chance with the Rangers, Montreal had the services of Kovalev for the playoff run and a spot is opened in the organization that might allow for Milroy's development.

As for skill sets, I would say that Balej reminds me of Cournoyer with blazing speed and a scoring touch. Ribeiro reminds me of John Chabot who was magical with the puck and a horrible skater.

I know you like Ribs but I am still not convinced he is a top two centre. And his stats (like team revenues) can be twisted into any shape to support any argument.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Bob said:

Mr. Beaux-Eaux, you misread my intentions regarding this post. It was indeed a comparison between Milroy and Balej and the purpose of the post was to illustrate that the Habs did not give up too much when they traded for Kovalev.

I was extrapolating, I admit. Though I disagree about the ultimate value of the exchange.

Milroy and Balej have different skill sets. Balej is a gifted offensive player who needs to play on one of the first two lines. Milroy has some scoring talent but seems like he might be a better two-way player who could fit on the 2nd or 3rd line.

I certainly have nothing against Milroy, who I championed when the Habs chose him , and in whom I still have faith.

With the emergence of Perezhogin and the drafting of Kostitsyn, there wasn't going to be much room left for Balej. He wouldn't have had a chance to blossom in Montreal.

A logical assumption. Yet one never really knows until years later, does one?

Therefore the trade was good for both sides. Balej gets his chance with the Rangers, Montreal had the services of Kovalev for the playoff run and a spot is opened in the organization that might allow for Milroy's development.

OK.

As for skill sets, I would say that Balej reminds me of Cournoyer with blazing speed and a scoring touch. Ribeiro reminds me of John Chabot who was magical with the puck and a horrible skater.

Balej reminds me more of Shutt, Ribeiro of a second-tier Gretzky.

I know you like Ribs but I am still not convinced he is a top two centre. And his stats (like team revenues) can be twisted into any shape to support any argument.

The stats are what they are. I didn't make them up. Unlike the owners and their revenues

[Bob]

M. said:

Balej reminds me more of Shutt, Ribeiro of a second-tier Gretzky.

The stats are what they are. I didn't make them up. Unlike the owners and their revenues

Balej vs. Shutt
I think Balej is a way better skater while Shutt had unbelievable hands. He could let that shot go from anywhere (somewhat like Ryder but he used his slapshot more and Ryder uses his wrist shot more).

Ribeiro vs. a 2nd-tier Gretzky
I guess that is a fair comparison but the Chabot comparison still lingers. Maybe he (Chabot) was more of a 3rd-tier Gretzky.

If the NHL ever decides to let the game open up again (get rid of the trap, the clutch and grab, the hooking etc.) Ribeiro would be a much more valuable player than he is today. Until then, in a short series, I believe he can be dominated and made less effective than he is during the regular season.