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Post by franko on May 20, 2015 16:47:02 GMT -5
and lost in the mire . . .  |
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Post by franko on May 20, 2015 16:48:42 GMT -5
Leafs definitely swoop in at the last minute with a yacht load of cash. Absurd sum; $6.25 million a year. That's a million more than the talking heads more or less expected based on the Detroit offer. and the question . . . will the NHL allow it? hard to say how they could step in, but expect a "Babcock rule" in the future. |
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Post by blny on May 20, 2015 17:00:59 GMT -5
Leafs definitely swoop in at the last minute with a yacht load of cash. Absurd sum; $6.25 million a year. That's a million more than the talking heads more or less expected based on the Detroit offer. and the question . . . will the NHL allow it? hard to say how they could step in, but expect a "Babcock rule" in the future. The first thing that came to my mind was incorporating coaching salaries into the cap. |
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Post by Skilly on May 20, 2015 17:31:32 GMT -5
According to Louis Jean, the Maple Leafs had a meeting this morning with Guy Boucher to sign him as the next Leafs head coach. During that meeting Babcock called, an executive excused himself to talk to him, and returned to inform Boucher they have their head coach ...
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Post by blny on May 20, 2015 17:45:16 GMT -5
According to Louis Jean, the Maple Leafs had a meeting this morning with Guy Boucher to sign him as the next Leafs head coach. During that meeting Babcock called, an executive excused himself to talk to him, and returned to inform Boucher they have their head coach ... TSN was mentioning earlier that they'd been 'wining and dining' Boucher. If that's how it played out, that's beyond unprofessional. |
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Post by seventeen on May 20, 2015 17:45:50 GMT -5
So there's still a chance we could land Boucher?
Man there's a ton of risk in that deal. So if Babcock misses the playoffs 3 years in a row, the Leafs still can't fire him? It may take that dysfunctional organization a dozen years to get their act together.
What a Mess. Maybe I could get hired as GM. I can fail as well as anyone and I can use the money. Pick me, I'm a Yes Man.
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Post by CentreHice on May 20, 2015 17:57:39 GMT -5
So THAT'S how Boucher was involved…how cheap.
Almost as cheap as how the Sabres feel Babcock behaved.
Imagine that phone call from Babcock to Shanahan….
"Hi Shanny….um, Babs here. Listen...Buffalo has offered me $25 million. I told them I'd get back to them.
>>How much to get you here, Babs?
Pardon…sorry….I'm having trouble with this connection….I think I'm hearing double…."
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Post by blny on May 20, 2015 18:16:22 GMT -5
It's right out of the Shanny/Hull school of contract negotiating.
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Post by blny on May 20, 2015 18:27:34 GMT -5
So there's still a chance we could land Boucher? |
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Post by jkr on May 20, 2015 18:58:31 GMT -5
According to Louis Jean, the Maple Leafs had a meeting this morning with Guy Boucher to sign him as the next Leafs head coach. During that meeting Babcock called, an executive excused himself to talk to him, and returned to inform Boucher they have their head coach ... stay classy Toronto.  |
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Post by jkr on May 20, 2015 19:05:53 GMT -5
According to Louis Jean, the Maple Leafs had a meeting this morning with Guy Boucher to sign him as the next Leafs head coach. During that meeting Babcock called, an executive excused himself to talk to him, and returned to inform Boucher they have their head coach ... TSN was mentioning earlier that they'd been 'wining and dining' Boucher. If that's how it played out, that's beyond unprofessional. Sounds like the Leafs had moved on if they were that far along with Boucher. Did they get a call from Babcock who was playing them off against the Sabres? These two deserve each other. A guy who has one cup 7 years ago and a franchise that's in a 48 year drought. |
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Post by blny on May 20, 2015 19:13:14 GMT -5
Babs called them first thing this morning. Murray was ready to call the PC for two days ago thinking he had a deal finalized on the weekend. The dual interview with Holland and Babcock would lead you to believe he was likely to stay in Detroit. TSN confirmed this afternoon that the Leafs were involved from the start. So, while they didn't necessarily swoop in at the last moment it would appear that they believed Babcock was going elsewhere.
Babcock went for the almighty dollar - and the guarantee that he won't be fired during the rebuild process - of which you can bet he'll have significant input into GM, scouting, draft selections, etc.
If Babcock is worth $6.25 milllion average, with one Cup, how much are Sutter and Quenville worth with two?
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Post by Skilly on May 20, 2015 19:34:18 GMT -5
Friedman now reporting that the Leafs knew they were going to get Babcock last night ... The circus never ends
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Post by CentreHice on May 20, 2015 20:15:46 GMT -5
So, if the Leafs knew last night….why meet with Boucher this morning?
Doesn't make sense.
Someone's story is amiss.
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Post by jkr on May 20, 2015 20:24:14 GMT -5
So, if the Leafs knew last night….why meet with Boucher this morning? Doesn't make sense. Someone's story is amiss. I heard Holland's press conference. He said he met with Babcock at 8AM today & had no inkling. The leafs & Babcock are sounding pretty underhanded. BTW - anyone hear Cherry. he believes the leafs will be fine because although they are not a team they have "a lot of talent".  |
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Post by franko on May 20, 2015 20:46:07 GMT -5
Leaf fans not even waiting until October to plan the parade route . . .
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Post by CentreHice on May 20, 2015 20:53:36 GMT -5
I heard Holland's press conference. He said he met with Babcock at 8AM today & had no inkling. The leafs & Babcock are sounding pretty underhanded. Yeah, that's a lot of terms to bang out in a short time. After hearing all the stories....here's a scenario. The Leafs and Babcock figure out that deal on the weekend...but someone high up at MLSE gets cold feet, thinking, "That's an awful lot of money and control...." So Babcock calls their bluffalo and talks with the Sabres. Tim Murray thinks he has a deal in place. At the 11th hour, Babcock's agent calls Shanny (who's meeting with Boucher)...."Mike's about to sign with the Sabres this morning.....last chance." And MLSE figured, "Aaaah, optics be damned....let's do it!" Tim Murray is livid. BTW - anyone hear Cherry. he believes the leafs will be fine because although they are not a team they have "a lot of talent". Absolutely no more Coach's Corner for me. I've had more than my fill....and commentary. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 20, 2015 20:58:46 GMT -5
Elliotte Friedman now saying that the Leafs were simply waiting in the weeds.
Strombo says, "The HE CAME FOR THE MONEY argument is ridiculous."
Protect that asset, boys!
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Post by jkr on May 20, 2015 21:33:44 GMT -5
Elliotte Friedman now saying that the Leafs were simply waiting in the weeds. Strombo says, "The HE CAME FOR THE MONEY argument is ridiculous." Protect that asset, boys! Why is it ridiculous George? What else would he come to Toronto for. It was probably the best offer from the worst team of all the ones he talked to. Players/coaches can say they came for the challenge etc. but in the end it's all about the biggest deal. They rarely go where there is less money. Just once I'd like to hear someone say I signed here because they offered the most money, don't care how bad they are. |
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Post by jkr on May 20, 2015 21:35:08 GMT -5
Leaf fans not even waiting until October to plan the parade route . . . There hasn't been one in Detroit since 2008. And that was with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom et al. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 20, 2015 21:39:44 GMT -5
A fun read. Basically a collation of what has been said here already. Top Shelf with Brendan KellyOn the face of it, it’s just kind of goofy, with gusts up to surreal. Why would Mike Babcock, one of the most respected coaches in hockey, go to the Toronto Maple Leafs, one of the least respected organizations in hockey?
Is the guy a masochist? Does he like losing? Maybe he didn’t notice that the Loafs finished fourth from the bottom in the National Hockey League this past season?
Oh yeah he’s gonna make $50 million over eight years. There is that. This is one significant detail. So as the great Grandmaster Flash said – ‘It’s all about money/ain’t a damn thing funny.’
Cos make no mistake. This is all about money. NHL coaches make at best $2 million a year and now Babcock is going to be hauling home over $6 million on average a year. So yeah I get why he’s going to T-Dot. Many are attracted by the dough. Not me but weaker men and women. (I’m kidding, by the way. I live by the old rock-star adage – I would’ve sold out years ago, but no one was buying.) So Babcock went for the bucks.
But he is a fellow who said, just a couple of days ago – ‘I think about the opportunity to win….I’m an immediate gratification guy because I like winning.’
Huh? Wha’ happened? Reminds me of two other songs. One is Barrett Strong’s Money (That’s What I Want) – ‘The best things in life are free/But you can give them to the birds and bees/give me money.’ The Beatles version is one of the greatest rock’n’roll records ever recorded, by the way.
The other is Tom Gray’s Money Changes Everything. For more on both songs, check out Greil Marcus’s fabulous book, The History of Rock’n’Roll in Ten Songs.
Any hoo, you get the idea. The McGill grad followed the money. And so much for that talk of him coming back to the town where he went to university (which was never going to happen in any case).
I don’t really blame him. I do blame the Leafs though for absurdly inflating the wage rates for coaches. It’s like some idiotic
GM coming and paying some fourth-line plumber $7 million a year. Yeah Babcock’s no plumber but he ain’t the Messiah either and he’s been grossly overpaid.
And of course he will not win any time soon with the Leafs because they have a terrible team with a bunch of obscenely over-paid ‘stars’ who don’t deliver and not nearly enough prospects coming up through their farm system. Best line comes in a tweet quoted in the Toronto Star: ‘Now that Toronto hired Mike Babcock as head coach, all we need to do is trade for Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, and put Gretzky on the 1st line.’ Exactly.
And Oh My God can you imagine the next few years of hockey coverage coming out of the Centre of the Universe known as Toronto – it’s going to be all Babcock all the time and the T.O. broadcast guys will be falling over themselves waxing what passes for poetic on Hockey Night in Canada about the great things he’ll be doing with the team. Oh the horror, the horror.
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Post by franko on May 21, 2015 5:20:49 GMT -5
Leaf fans not even waiting until October to plan the parade route . . . There hasn't been one in Detroit since 2008. And that was with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom et al. I know, that's what cracks me up. I know there have been miracle workers in the past, but even Babcock can't take that group and raise it from the dead. |
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Post by Skilly on May 21, 2015 5:27:21 GMT -5
Another absurb comment I heard from someone on Sportsnet was the Leafs told Babcock to go explore his options, but give them a call before making his final decision because they'd trump whatever offer any other team gives him. So the Leafs wanted other teams to set the market ??
In Ken Holland's press conference he said Mike came to him about giving him more term .... Holland said he couldn't justify giving someone 8 years when they've been with the team for 10 years. He made it sound that if Detroit offered 8 yrs, with their salary offer, Babcock would still be in Detroit.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 21, 2015 5:57:45 GMT -5
It's a bigger story than the playoffs ...
Cheers.
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Post by jkr on May 21, 2015 6:26:01 GMT -5
Another absurb comment I heard from someone on Sportsnet was the Leafs told Babcock to go explore his options, but give them a call before making his final decision because they'd trump whatever offer any other team gives him. So the Leafs wanted other teams to set the market ?? In Ken Holland's press conference he said Mike came to him about giving him more term .... Holland said he couldn't justify giving someone 8 years when they've been with the team for 10 years. He made it sound that if Detroit offered 8 yrs, with their salary offer, Babcock would still be in Detroit. Holland wouldn't give in to a ridiculous term offer. That's why Detroit is a model for how to run a franchise. Toronto on the other hand ... But you're right - that comment makes no sense. The Leafs have been fantasizing about Babcock forever. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 21, 2015 6:31:08 GMT -5
It's a bigger story than the playoffs ... Cheers. Yep...with this kind of contract and power, Babcock (like Burke before him) will be a bigger story than his team. He is the whole story. The Leafs stole playoff thunder last year, too….when they announced Shanahan's appointment on April 11. A big-money acquisition by Tim Leiweke. Random thoughts.... The front-loaded deal QUADRUPLES his salary for the first 3 years. $8 million. It's a ludicrous move by a rich, entitled, and obviously very desperate, team. Here's hoping the opposing coaches are even MORE motivated to beat Team Moneybags. Babcock, from a few reports I've heard/read, has a huge ego...and it's just been over-sated. The Leafs and their fans were smug before. They will now be intolerable. As jkr said, it's been 8 years since the last Cup parade in Detroit....with 3 of the league's best. Team Canada? Well, Pat Quinn won Gold with Canada's all-stars, too. Different story in the NHL. Everyone knew Babcock would cash in....but this is insane. And it'll make their continued futility even more delicious. Aaron Ward thinks it's a joke. He says, "I should get a job with that organization. Because I can make dumb decisions, too." |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 21, 2015 8:12:15 GMT -5
The front-loaded deal QUADRUPLES his salary for the first 3 years. $8 million. I'm just hoping Mike Babcock doesn't start off his press conference with, "... Toronto provided the best challenge, by far ... yada, yada, yada" ... in the end, it was all about money, despite what he may/may not say at his presser ... hey, and don't get me wrong, I'd have signed that contract, too ... imagine that; $50 million bananas ... generations of Disgruntled family members never having to work ... and, to be honest, I'm actually happy for Babcock ... I mean, how do you turn something like that down ... Cheers. |
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Post by Tankdriver on May 21, 2015 8:16:11 GMT -5
It's a bigger story than the playoffs ... Cheers. Yep...with this kind of contract and power, Babcock (like Burke before him) will be a bigger story than his team. He is the whole story. The Leafs stole playoff thunder last year, too….when they announced Shanahan's appointment on April 11. A big-money acquisition by Tim Leiweke. Random thoughts.... The front-loaded deal QUADRUPLES his salary for the first 3 years. $8 million. It's a ludicrous move by a rich, entitled, and obviously very desperate, team. Here's hoping the opposing coaches are even MORE motivated to beat Team Moneybags. Babcock, from a few reports I've heard/read, has a huge ego...and it's just been over-sated. The Leafs and their fans were smug before. They will now be intolerable. As jkr said, it's been 8 years since the last Cup parade in Detroit....with 3 of the league's best. Team Canada? Well, Pat Quinn won Gold with Canada's all-stars, too. Different story in the NHL. Everyone knew Babcock would cash in....but this is insane. And it'll make their continued futility even more delicious. Aaron Ward thinks it's a joke. He says, "I should get a job with that organization. Because I can make dumb decisions, too." I am really enjoying Ward as a commentator on TSN. He is pretty spot on with all the assessments and doesn't go out an sugarcoat things. |
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Post by Polarice on May 21, 2015 8:58:20 GMT -5
Reminds me of when Toronto signed Burke!! We know how that worked out!!
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Post by CentreHice on May 21, 2015 9:16:15 GMT -5
Just heard Marinaro mention the salaries of the highest paid NHL coaches, prior to yesterday.
Quenneville: $2.75 million
Sutter: $2.5 million.
Julien: $2.25 million.
A few at $2 million. Including Therrien, Vigneault, Ruff, and Laviolette, and Babcock.
Marinaro's going to speak with Ken Holland in a couple of minutes.
I'll paraphrase here. He repeated various points. Overall, Holland was very gracious with no tone of animosity….but there's no reading between the lines in the sections I've bolded.
Babcock isn't perfect. There were disappointments both in terms of loyalty and team results.
And for Holland to mention that, it should be significant for Toronto to remember.
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MARINARO: How close were you, in terms of a relationship?
I think we were very close. He came to BC for my daughter's wedding. When you work together for 10 years, you get somewhat close. In the last two weeks, we became even closer. Going to Prague to watch a prospect. If he chose to leave, I wanted him to know that it's been a decade of making the playoffs and making the Finals twice…..and positioning our team going forward. I wanted him to know I appreciated what he did.
I wanted Mike back…but if he chose to leave, I certainly respected the decision.
Shanahan came over to Prague on Friday and Saturday….and they spent those two days together. I didn't have a problem with that.
He'd been here for 10 years….I've been here for 18. But we've won only one playoff series in the last 4 years.
We offered him 4 years last summer….4 years in Jaunary….and upped it to 5.
At the end of the day, I work for the Detroit Red Wings…and I felt I had to make the right decision for the organization.
Our offer was going to make him the highest paid coach. I wasn't comfortable offering any more term than that.
When we lost to Tampa…we drove to Grand Rapids (a two hour drive) to look at our farm club….and he said to me, "Ken, I'd like the opportunity to explore the open market."
I was hoping that the roots he'd laid down here….and the relationship we'd had…..all the work we'd done with development…..I was hoping that all those things would be reasons Mike would want to stay.
I want people here who really want to be here. But I have great respect for Mike.
But I knew there'd be tremendous opportunities for him elsewhere. So I basically said, "Here's our best offer."
There have been disappointments. We got beat in some series we had an opportunity to win.
Disappointing loss to Tampa this year. Losing to Chicago two years ago after being up 3-1. Losing the Cup in Game 7 to the Penguins in '09 after being up 3-2 in the series.
MARINARO: Reports out of Buffalo say they're livid, and that they feel played by Babcock. What are your thoughts on that?
I have no idea what happened there. Buffalo was one of the teams granted permission. That's all I know.
MARINARO: In the past couple of days….did you have any hope that he'd remain a Red Wing?
When he called me yesterday...it wouldn't have surprised me if he said he wanted to stay. I wanted to hear that he was staying. But I also wasn't surprised to hear that he was leaving.
Do you think any coach is worth $6.25 million?
You're worth whatever somebody's willing to pay you…..and this was a unique circumstance.
Mike did something most coaches don't do…..play out the contract and become a UFA.
I don't think it's a market setter. It's a unique situation.
MARINARO: How did it all play out?
He told me he had an 8-year offer…and we weren't comfortable with that.
Considering everything we'd been through together….I was hoping there'd be what you'd call a hometown discount…
I'm grateful for the last 10 years…..but it's time to think about the next 10 years.
MARINARO: Do the Leafs have to give you compensation?
Toronto gives us a 3rd round pick….their choice in any one of the next 3 drafts.
MARINARO: What about Guy Boucher….will you be looking at him?
We're going to start the process with Jeff Blashill (Grand Rapids coach). People have been asking about him, and he remained loyal, so he deserves the first look.
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