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Post by blny on Jul 31, 2015 17:07:25 GMT -5
Not sure how many baseball followers there are here, but it's hard not to hear about what the Jays did this week as part of perhaps the busiest non-waiver trade deadline in MLB history.
First move was Tulowitzki and Hawkins for Reyes, Hoffman, Castro, and Tinoco. Tulo is one of the best SS's in baseball. Every bit the range of Reyes, a better arm, as good or better a hitter with a lot more power. Jays own his rights for 5 years and get younger. Hoffman is a strong prospect, definitely the best of the three. Was a 9th overall pick. The sort of forgotten guy is the ageless Hawkins. 42, but still throws hard and well. He's a big add for the middle innings.
Anthopolous surprised everyone and picked up David Price from Detroit. Ace pitcher. Lefty power pitcher. UFA after this season. Jays sent three lefty prospects the other way, the best of which is Norris. Likely better than Hoffman imo, but I've read where he might not be better than a #2-3. Boyd is a middling prospect, but very young. Labourt is very young, and not tearing it up in the minors. These three guys, all young, don't likely make the club while the current core group is productive. Price will be hard to sign, but imo the only stumbling block is mgt and their self imposed restraints. Remove the handcuffs, and they can afford what will likely be a $30 million a year price tag.
Everyone thought the Jays might be done ...
AA makes two moves today. In one, he picks up reliever Mark Lowe from the Mariners. He's got an ERA of 1.00 in 36 innings with 47 so's. Three more lefty prospects go to Milwaukee. All middling prospects, and should be replaceable. With Hawkins and Lowe, the Jays have solidified their bull pen significantly.
To address the loss of speed by moving Reyes, the Jays picked up Ben Revere from the Phillies. He can play LF and CF. Great speed. Only former Jay Rajai Davis has more steals over the last 4 or 5 years. He hits for average. He's only 27 and the Jays control his rights for two more seasons. Should be a really good utility player that can either bat first or ninth.
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I've followed the Jays since the mid 80s. I've never seen a week like this. Previous big trades likely would have been topped by the Fernandez/McGriff for Alomar/Carter trade. This week blows that out of the water. AA is swinging for the fences and giving his club as good a chance to succeed as he can.
I've tried to equate this week's moves to what an NHL team might have done in the week leading up to the deadline. In are two premier players, two really good character guys, and a solid utility player. When Montreal picked up Vanek, Weaver,and perhaps the inclusion of Weise we all thought that was a very successful set of moves by Berg. They pale in comparison. That's not to diminish what Bergevin accomplished. It simply is remarkable what AA pulled off this week.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 1, 2015 1:18:47 GMT -5
I don't care for the Leafs, but I follow and cheer for both the Jays and Raptors. Anthopolous (a Montreal boy) had one heck of a week. Yes, he almost totally stripped his farm system, but since he's the guy who built it up to start with, it's his right to part with it. The Price deal is risky in that it's much like the Petry deal. You hope the guy likes the city and team enough to re-sign and maybe he will. If they win the World Series, that would go a long way. With Beeston leaving, the new prez may allow contracts longer than 5 years and that needs to take place to be competitive in the baseball UFA market. Price is a true ace, though, and needed to match up against the big boys. That takes a mediocre group of starters and moves everyone down a spot, making them all much more competitive vs their peers. Buehrle and Dickey are having decent years, Dickey despite his record. Estrada has been a surprise and so has Hutchison, but in the wrong direction. Hutchison is a real liability and I'd think he's a very marginal 5th starter. He just can't get people out. With the improvements in the bullpen, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those guys moved into a starter role.
The Tulowitzki deal was really good. While I hate losing a guy like Reyes (and Hoffman of course), who's just so entertaining to watch, Tulo really is better in every area. It's interesting that since that trade the Jays have won 3 games in a row. (I'm wondering if Reyes had a black cloud over him) Tulo has made some difficult every day outs which might have gone for errors if Reyes was in the line-up. And, he's under contract for another 5 years or so. He seems to be involved in key plays as well. Tonight against a very good KC team in the 11th, he nailed a single, moved to 2nd on a balk and scored on a single by the other clutch player, Donaldson. When Revere gets in the line-up, that's going to be a tough group for a pitcher to face. Especially if Travis gets healthy again.
Revere, Donaldson, Bautista, EE, Tulowitzki, Martin, DH, Pillar, Travis. Smoak and Navarro can't break that lineup. The DH can be your 7th batter. Yikes.
Anthopolous has really improved the bullpen too. With Sanchez coming back, the addition of Hawkins and today Lowe, that changed the outlook totally. I still cringe when Loup gets the call and Cecil isn't a comfortable choice either, but at least there's no Felix Doubrant or such clones on the team anymore. We had some real dogs taking a regular spot for a while.
The Jays were really unlucky with the injuries to Stroman and then Saunders, but they'll be back next year, so if they can finish off well this season, who knows? The Yanks are hardly out of reach. I prefer to win the division rather than play with wild card spots, and the Yankees are eminently catchable.
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Post by blny on Aug 1, 2015 6:27:21 GMT -5
Stroman is already planning his conditioning stints. There's an outside chance he could be back before the playoffs. That would a real shot to the rotation, or pen. He's got an amazing arm.
Donaldson was a huge acquisition before the season. Lawrie being the primary piece going the other way, we got a much better fielder, a better hitter for average and considerably more power. Lawrie has had a nice season in Oakland. I think getting away from Canada will be good for him.
When I look at the price paid for all these moves, Hoffman is the closest thing to a true ace. Even then, there are reports he could be no more than a 2-3 guy.
As you mentioned, Price pushing people down a peg does a lot for the rotation. Dickey's knuckle ball becomes all that much more effective pitching right behind Price. Buerhle is a perfect #3. AA has done a great job setting the team up to win. As mentioned on Tim and Sid, regardless of whether or not the team succeeds, his efforts this week may have saved his job. I tend to agree. I also agree that it's put Gibbons on the hot seat. Like Therrien, I never really liked bringing Gibbons back. Not a fan.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 1, 2015 11:26:02 GMT -5
I don't know enough about the innards of baseball to figure if the Manager is good but Gibbons didn't have a lot to work with. He does now.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 3, 2015 10:18:49 GMT -5
Big-time statement game by the Jays ... they won despite shoddy umpiring and they took out KC without Price ...
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Aug 3, 2015 22:10:55 GMT -5
cool probabilities graph for MLB playoff possibilities (early yet, but fun) AL East graph |
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Post by jkr on Aug 4, 2015 5:48:50 GMT -5
I like the way AA manages - he is not afraid to pull the trigger on big trade. But although I have lived in Ontario for many years it just seems wrong to cheer for a Toronto team. Just can't do it so I remain indifferent. As for you 17 - you must the be the only person outside Ontario that cares about the Raptors.  |
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Post by franko on Aug 4, 2015 9:28:07 GMT -5
I like the way AA manages - he is not afraid to pull the trigger on big trade. But although I have lived in Ontario for many years it just seems wrong to cheer for a Toronto team. Just can't do it so I remain indifferent. As for you 17 - you must the be the only person outside Ontario that cares about the Raptors. shouldn't that be "outside Toronto"? and that's one more person in Canada that cares about the Argos. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 4, 2015 9:48:59 GMT -5
Quite the outting by David Price yesterday ... he struck out 11 and didn't allow a base runner past the 4th inning, where he pitched out of a bases-loaded jam with none out ...
Chapeau!!
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 4, 2015 10:31:58 GMT -5
I've always liked the Jays. For some reason, I don't associate them with Leafs. Hockey runs deeper than baseball, I suppose.
I have no idea what those moves cost the Jays in the long run....but with all that run production, AA had to go for it now.
Should be a fun ride....fans have been waiting a long time.
13 remaining games vs. the Yankees.
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Post by Polarice on Aug 4, 2015 12:44:45 GMT -5
It's been a long time since I've been excited over the Blue Jays....not saying they are gonna win the World Series but they should make a good go of it!!
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Post by seventeen on Aug 4, 2015 14:18:44 GMT -5
All the media hype is about the Jays chase for the Wild card spot. That's stupid and short sighted. The Jays are only 5.5 games behind the Yanks. I think the pinstripes are going to go into a losing streak. It's one thing to be cruising in front with a bunch of 'guys' behind you and something else to be leading with an in his prime Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus on your tail. They're going to tighten up as the Jays put on pressure.
It will help a lot if Estrada continues his good pitching. Jays might also have to swap Hutchison with someone from the bullpen. He's been brutal most of the year and without the run support would have a matching record. Anyway, the Yanks will be looking at that "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear" and losing that relaxed, comfortable approach.
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Post by Gogie on Aug 4, 2015 15:14:39 GMT -5
All the media hype is about the Jays chase for the Wild card spot. That's stupid and short sighted. The Jays are only 5.5 games behind the Yanks. I think the pinstripes are going to go into a losing streak. It's one thing to be cruising in front with a bunch of 'guys' behind you and something else to be leading with an in his prime Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus on your tail. They're going to tighten up as the Jays put on pressure. It will help a lot if Estrada continues his good pitching. Jays might also have to swap Hutchison with someone from the bullpen. He's been brutal most of the year and without the run support would have a matching record. Anyway, the Yanks will be looking at that "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear" and losing that relaxed, comfortable approach. Hate to burst your bubble Seventeen but I believe you've been drinking that T.O. Kool-Aid.  The Jays ain't catching the Yanks. Here's a few stats why it isn't happening. 1. Yanks finish out the season playing "500" ball. They end up with a record of 88-74. Blue Jays would need to go 33-22 (win 60% of their remaining games). They haven't had any significant stretch of playing that well yet this season and despite the pick ups they've recently made they still don't have the bullpen to do it. 2. Yanks finish out the season going 26-32 (win 45% of their remaining games). Blue Jays would have to go 30-25 (.545 winning %). Could happen, but again the Jays haven't shown that kind of consistency over long stretches. 3. Yanks finish out the season at a .550 pace (going 32-26, or slightly worse than they've played to date). Jays would have to go 36-19 (.655 pace). The Jays aren't going to play that well under any circumstance. With 13 games left between the Yankees and Blue Jays there should be some interesting games, beginning with this weekend in New York and the following weekend in Toronto. We'll probably have a better handle on how things will probably end up by then.  FYI - If you haven't figured it out yet, I was born a Yankees fan. Don't bother arguing with me.  |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 4, 2015 16:15:30 GMT -5
I guess it will play itself out. Just don't look in your passenger side rear view mirror. By September, you'll be looking out the windshield at some dust trails.
Beep beep.
I'd have put a smiley face here, but using my iPhone and don't have a link to that. Cheers and good luck Gogie!
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 4, 2015 16:37:54 GMT -5
All the media hype is about the Jays chase for the Wild card spot. That's stupid and short sighted. The Jays are only 5.5 games behind the Yanks. I think the pinstripes are going to go into a losing streak. It's one thing to be cruising in front with a bunch of 'guys' behind you and something else to be leading with an in his prime Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus on your tail. They're going to tighten up as the Jays put on pressure. It will help a lot if Estrada continues his good pitching. Jays might also have to swap Hutchison with someone from the bullpen. He's been brutal most of the year and without the run support would have a matching record. Anyway, the Yanks will be looking at that "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear" and losing that relaxed, comfortable approach. If I'm the Jays I'm not worried about catching the Yankees, I'd probably be more concerned about winning a wildcard spot ... as it is now, the Jays are tied with LA, Minnesota and Baltimore ... they're being chased by a few teams as well ... the Yankees aren't winning as much right now, so hopefully they'll keep going in that direction ... Drew Hutchison hasn't gone 7 innings in his last 11, but he is 9-2 ... if he does go to the bullpen, then I suspect they'll use him as a middle relief guy ... RA Dickey has been pitching out of his mind of late, but he doesn't always get the run support ... Mark Buerhle has been very steady this year, while Brett Cecile seems to be slowly returning to form ... the lineup (position players) was ready for a playoff run this year, but it wasn't until they landed Troy Tulowitzki, David Price and Latroy Hawkins that the club moved from being competitive to actual contenders ... right now I'm looking at tickets for the Orioles on Sept 5th/6th ... should be good ... Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 4, 2015 16:39:31 GMT -5
FYI - If you haven't figured it out yet, I was born a Yankees fan. Don't bother arguing with me. Used to watch the Yankees every weekend while growing up in Ottawa ... we saw them about as much as the Expos ... Cheers. |
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Post by franko on Aug 4, 2015 17:15:31 GMT -5
In KC the end of September, but of course the Royals are away. Happened to me last year, too. Insert swearing smilies.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 5, 2015 18:21:13 GMT -5
Hutchison is making life easy for the Twins. 3-0 already in the first. His pitches aren't moving at all, he's not throwing anything but fast balls and he's not positioning the fastballs either. He's continuing the very mediocre pitching he's been providing the last month. Easy to say pull him, but I wouldn't have started him until he shows me he's a pitcher not a thrower. Reminds me all too much of Brandon Morrow.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 5, 2015 19:13:37 GMT -5
Hutchison coming out of his funk after team scores 6 to take the lead. Solid 3rd inning.
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Post by franko on Aug 5, 2015 19:55:47 GMT -5
So I turn the game on to discover 9 to freaking 7 . . . in the 5th???
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 5, 2015 20:40:15 GMT -5
... Hutchison is inconsistent and his win/loss record is a reflection of his run support and not so much superior pitching ...
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Post by seventeen on Aug 5, 2015 21:11:21 GMT -5
Hutchison needs a new address.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 6, 2015 9:42:42 GMT -5
Hmm ... Toronto Blue Jays:
Randy Wolf In, Drew Hutchison Out?by William Wilson 3h ago The Toronto Blue Jays don’t have a lot of room for error these days, making Drew Hutchison a liability Drew Hutchison stinks right now – it may sound harsh, but it’s true. There’s no other way to put it. If it wasn’t for the Toronto Blue Jays‘ dynamic offence, Hutchison’s year-to-date record of 10-2 would almost certainly look worse. Over his last seven starts, the youngest member of the rotation has allowed 31 runs (22 earned) in just 35.1 innings of work. To put that in perspective, R.A. Dickey – the oldest member of the rotation – has allowed just 27 runs (24 earned) over his last 80 innings of work. Hutchison has only escaped the sixth inning in two of his last 12 starts, putting the Jays in early holes and forcing the bullpen to pick up the slack. That was fine when the Jays had games to burn, but in a tight race to reach the playoffs, the team’s margin for error and it’s acceptance of risk have shrunk considerably. We saw this last night when John Gibbons was quick to put Bo Schultz on alert in the bullpen as Hutchison laboured through the second inning. Defenders of Hutchison will likely point out that last night’s final scorecard wasn’t reflective of his performance. Despite surrendering seven runs, Hutchison was only responsible for three of them. The other four runs were the result of a throwing error by Josh Donaldson. More of the story |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 6, 2015 15:45:55 GMT -5
Hutchison needs a new address. Ok that's harsh, but he really needs to step up and improve his game. It's critical for the Jays to have 5 guys they can count on to keep the runs down and get them through 6 or 7 innnings. Buehrle, Dicky and Estrada have been doing their part and pitching solidly. You can allow them the occasional bad game and hope the hitting bails them out, but Hutchison has consistently been giving up a load of runs. That high powered offense won't always be there to save him. Hell, who'd think he could give up 7 runs and still win? |
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Post by blny on Aug 6, 2015 19:35:32 GMT -5
Jays have about 13 games against the Yankees before the end of the season. They're shaping up for victory tonight, and will be at worst 4.5 games back. That's nothing. There's no bubble to burst - except maybe that of the overachieving Yankees.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 6, 2015 23:50:15 GMT -5
As soon as all the deals went through, the East Div title was in my mind. I don't want a one shot wild card game. I never thought the Yanks were uncatchable. Just keep winning and wait for them to fold. It's happening. This Jays team is really strong and has that strength up the middle. Pitching is still not A-1, but the bullpen is hugely improved and their defense is much better. That's what carries you through...not hitting, which can be neutralized by good pitching.
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Post by franko on Aug 7, 2015 5:56:19 GMT -5
It's been a lazier summer for me, and I tuned in to a couple of games -- and saw Reyes make errors to lose a couple of games in a row. Was on the verge of losing interest -- why watch a team of bumblers (even if it was only 1?)?
Then the trade . . . my interest is piqued again.
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Post by Gogie on Aug 7, 2015 10:52:18 GMT -5
If you guys weren't Habs fans I'd be questioning your sanity! Blue Jays??? Ugh. We'll see this weekend what's what in the AL East. By the way, I may be unavailable for a few weeks starting Sunday around 4:30 or 5 pm (all depends on certain "things"). If so, don't look for me posting and don't bother me with your snide remarks next week. I won't be reading them. |
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Post by franko on Aug 7, 2015 12:33:59 GMT -5
If you guys weren't Habs fans I'd be questioning your sanity! Blue Jays??? Ugh. We'll see this weekend what's what in the AL East. ya wants me to cheer for Bawston? TBay? the Yankees? even ugher! think I'll just stick going for the |
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Post by blny on Aug 7, 2015 14:09:01 GMT -5
I've been a Jays fan about as long as I've been a Habs fan. Prior to their first division title.
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The Jays ain't catching the Yanks. Here's a few stats why it isn't happening. 
