|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 20, 2016 20:52:34 GMT -5
Another perspective ... Stu Cowan: Bergevin needs to answer for many of the Canadiens' woes
STU COWAN, MONTREAL GAZETTE More from Stu Cowan, Montreal Gazette Published on: January 20, 2016 | Last Updated: January 20, 2016 7:44 PM ESTThe Canadiens should not fire coach Michel Therrien. Not yet. While fans seem to be putting most — if not all — of the blame for the Canadiens’ downfall on Therrien, it’s time for general manager Marc Bergevin to put on one of his fancy suits — which are starting to lose their shine — and answer some questions about what the heck is going on with his team. Therrien definitely deserves some of the blame for the Canadiens’ fall from grace after a franchise-record 9-0 start to the season to sitting in 10th place in the Eastern Conference and out of the playoffs following Tuesday night’s 4-1 loss to the Boston Bruins dropped them to 23-20-4. Fans showed their frustration Tuesday night at the Bell Centre by booing 37-year-old defenceman Andrei Markov, who made a brutal giveaway in the first period to give the Bruins a 1-0 lead. After the game, Therrien defended his veteran defenceman by saying that when all players get to “a certain age” their mind and body aren’t always in sync. That begs the question, why is Therrien playing the 37-year-old an average of 22:52 per game — second only to P.K. Subban’s 25:55? And why — oh, why!? — is Markov on the ice during three-on-three overtime when the coach has skaters like Subban, Jeff Petry, Nathan Beaulieu and Mark Barberio on the blue line? Another question is why — oh, why!? — did the Canadiens send rookie Daniel Carr back down to the AHL’s St. John’s IceCaps and call up Jacob de la Rose, only to make de la Rose a healthy scratch against the Bruins? Carr was one of the few Canadiens players who had been scoring some goals and was turning into Brendan Gallagher Lite with his willingness to crash the net. The rest of the story
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Jan 20, 2016 22:01:52 GMT -5
Another perspective ... Stu Cowan: Bergevin needs to answer for many of the Canadiens' woes
STU COWAN, MONTREAL GAZETTE More from Stu Cowan, Montreal Gazette Published on: January 20, 2016 | Last Updated: January 20, 2016 7:44 PM ESTThe Canadiens should not fire coach Michel Therrien. Not yet. While fans seem to be putting most — if not all — of the blame for the Canadiens’ downfall on Therrien, it’s time for general manager Marc Bergevin to put on one of his fancy suits — which are starting to lose their shine — and answer some questions about what the heck is going on with his team. Therrien definitely deserves some of the blame for the Canadiens’ fall from grace after a franchise-record 9-0 start to the season to sitting in 10th place in the Eastern Conference and out of the playoffs following Tuesday night’s 4-1 loss to the Boston Bruins dropped them to 23-20-4. Fans showed their frustration Tuesday night at the Bell Centre by booing 37-year-old defenceman Andrei Markov, who made a brutal giveaway in the first period to give the Bruins a 1-0 lead. After the game, Therrien defended his veteran defenceman by saying that when all players get to “a certain age” their mind and body aren’t always in sync. That begs the question, why is Therrien playing the 37-year-old an average of 22:52 per game — second only to P.K. Subban’s 25:55? And why — oh, why!? — is Markov on the ice during three-on-three overtime when the coach has skaters like Subban, Jeff Petry, Nathan Beaulieu and Mark Barberio on the blue line? Another question is why — oh, why!? — did the Canadiens send rookie Daniel Carr back down to the AHL’s St. John’s IceCaps and call up Jacob de la Rose, only to make de la Rose a healthy scratch against the Bruins? Carr was one of the few Canadiens players who had been scoring some goals and was turning into Brendan Gallagher Lite with his willingness to crash the net. The rest of the storySome answers to those questions would be nice, in fact I would say they are necessary.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jan 20, 2016 22:14:28 GMT -5
Reads like a synopsis of all our posts!
If Bergevin's answer is to hang on to Therrien until Price comes back....then he's just admitting that his team isn't well-assembled or well-coached unless Price is 100% healthy.
Which is ludicrous reasoning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 22:50:58 GMT -5
He gave up on Kassian, meaning we lost Prust for nothing.
He traded Tinordi to resolve a self-inflicted all-star issue...and John Scott is still allowed to participate.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jan 20, 2016 23:02:59 GMT -5
He gave up on Kassian, meaning we lost Prust for nothing. He traded Tinordi to resolve a self-inflicted all-star issue...and John Scott is still allowed to participate. I don't have too big an issue with the loss of Prust. He's not exactly been a key figure in Vancouver, and they certainly aren't benefiting from his presence. He was in the last year of his contract and I'd have been very surprised if they re-signed him. They got a younger, bigger, kid with more skill who they thought was in the clear. He wasn't. If still traded it likely wouldn't have been for much more than an equal contract or a late pick. I'd have kept Zach around, but it's no big loss really.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jan 20, 2016 23:04:19 GMT -5
He gave up on Kassian, meaning we lost Prust for nothing. He traded Tinordi to resolve a self-inflicted all-star issue...and John Scott is still allowed to participate. We got Scrivens for Prust...as it turned out. The Tinordi trade was for Bartley....Scott's a hot potato.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Jan 21, 2016 8:11:05 GMT -5
Am I the only one who read this as if Cowan had an ax to grind with Bergy?
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 21, 2016 8:21:12 GMT -5
I though the comment by Tito Fuentes (not the real Tito Fuentes) at the bottom of the article sums up what MB has done so far.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 21, 2016 8:35:05 GMT -5
I'm always surprised at how infrequently Bergevin deals with the media. I've said before that Boston is a pretty tough sports town, but Don Sweeney does a weekly radio interview, even Bill Belichick does a weekly radio spot. Of course they don't always give you much, but these guys aren't hiding from the media and the fans. Yeah, it sucks to have to talk when the team is struggling but that should be part of the deal in a city like Montreal.
But I'm not there. Besides organized press conferences, how often is Bergevin talking to the media?
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jan 21, 2016 8:40:17 GMT -5
Am I the only one who read this as if Cowan had an ax to grind with Bergy? Nope.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 21, 2016 8:57:16 GMT -5
A couple other things...
I think we bailed too early on both Alex Semin and Zach Kassian. With hindsight, I don't think Semin really earned a ticket out of here and Berg wasted whatever upside he had with the Kassian trade. I wasn't a huge fan of it to begin with, but once the deal was done why not give the guy a second chance? He went to rehab to sort things but he was dead to Bergevin once the incident happened. He may still be a bust, but we could use his game right now.
Seriously, this whole obsession with "character" in Montreal is looking pretty silly now. Berg preaches character and sits idly from the press box while the season goes down the drain.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 21, 2016 9:15:48 GMT -5
A couple other things... I think we bailed too early on both Alex Semin and Zach Kassian. With hindsight, I don't think Semin really earned a ticket out of here and Berg wasted whatever upside he had with the Kassian trade. I wasn't a huge fan of it to begin with, but once the deal was done why not give the guy a second chance? He went to rehab to sort things but he was dead to Bergevin once the incident happened. He may still be a bust, but we could use his game right now. Seriously, this whole obsession with "character" in Montreal is looking pretty silly now. Berg preaches character and sits idly from the press box while the season goes down the drain. Yeah, was thinking a bit along those lines, too ... he's all about the character guys, but he brings in two guys with questionable character ... Semin used to be a proven sniper in the NHL and Kassian never really achieved his potential, but both of them have had their issues ... now the skinny is he's going after Drouin who, on the surface, anyway, might have some character issues of his own ... there are some inconsistencies for sure ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Jan 21, 2016 9:16:30 GMT -5
Yes cutting all ties with Kasian seemed out of character for the organization. There must have been more to the story than what was released.
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 21, 2016 10:50:49 GMT -5
A couple other things... I think we bailed too early on both Alex Semin and Zach Kassian. With hindsight, I don't think Semin really earned a ticket out of here and Berg wasted whatever upside he had with the Kassian trade. I wasn't a huge fan of it to begin with, but once the deal was done why not give the guy a second chance? He went to rehab to sort things but he was dead to Bergevin once the incident happened. He may still be a bust, but we could use his game right now. Seriously, this whole obsession with "character" in Montreal is looking pretty silly now. Berg preaches character and sits idly from the press box while the season goes down the drain. Yeah, was thinking a bit along those lines, too ... he's all about the character guys, but he brings in two guys with questionable character ... Semin used to be a proven sniper in the NHL and Kassian never really achieved his potential, but both of them have had their issues ... now the skinny is he's going after Drouin who, on the surface, anyway, might have some character issues of his own ... there are some inconsistencies for sure ... Cheers. The Droiun move (if he makes it) is never going to be a quick fix for the Berg. The team will likely be giving up some key roster, top prospect and/or draft assets for a guy who is still anything but an established NHLer. Don't get me wrong, I think he can be a really dynamic player down the road, but he is not there yet. That move would win over the local media for a bit before they realize the team is not winning any more games. And do I want to see another young offensive player handed over to MT? No effin' way. I still think it could be a good long term deal if the price is right. Boy that Allan Walsh is something else.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jan 21, 2016 11:10:58 GMT -5
Bergevin will meet with members of the media today after practice.
Let me guess....
Likely to give his coaches and current roster another vote of confidence.....
Not the time to panic...yes, we've fallen out of a playoff spot....but there's a lot of hockey to play....Carey is skating again....
=================================================================
Chris Nilan, along with Marinaro at Habs' practice today, noticed that all the 3-on-2 rushes had the middle guy hanging back...NOT going to the net.
Nilan couldn't believe it.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Jan 21, 2016 11:49:38 GMT -5
Bergevin will meet with members of the media today after practice. Let me guess.... Likely to give his coaches and current roster another vote of confidence..... Not the time to panic...yes, we've fallen out of a playoff spot....but there's a lot of hockey to play....Carey is skating again.... ================================================================= Chris Nilan, along with Marinaro at Habs' practice today, noticed that all the 3-on-2 rushes had the middle guy hanging back...NOT going to the net. Nilan couldn't believe it. I will be more curious to see his temperament and how many/if he will take any questions. Will he show the type of "character" he rails on about, or will he be chippy with a what I am guessing will be a very adversarial media.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jan 21, 2016 12:13:01 GMT -5
Chris Nilan, along with Marinaro at Habs' practice today, noticed that all the 3-on-2 rushes had the middle guy hanging back...NOT going to the net. Nilan couldn't believe it. I need to add Nilan to the list of possible coaches . . .
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Jan 21, 2016 12:21:16 GMT -5
A couple other things... I think we bailed too early on both Alex Semin and Zach Kassian. With hindsight, I don't think Semin really earned a ticket out of here and Berg wasted whatever upside he had with the Kassian trade. I wasn't a huge fan of it to begin with, but once the deal was done why not give the guy a second chance? He went to rehab to sort things but he was dead to Bergevin once the incident happened. He may still be a bust, but we could use his game right now. Seriously, this whole obsession with "character" in Montreal is looking pretty silly now. Berg preaches character and sits idly from the press box while the season goes down the drain. Agree that Kassian should have received a 2nd chance but not Semin. He's not even delivering in the KHL ( 6 points in 11 games). Bergevin got what he paid for.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jan 21, 2016 12:36:57 GMT -5
Bergevin speaks:
===========================================
Q: Where are things at with Price?
A: Well, it's been slower than we expected. Injuries....everybody's body is different. His position is very demanding for his injury. He hasn't had a setback.
Another 3 weeks....maybe a month....I don't have an exact date.
===========================================
That's all I need to hear for now....he might as well have said "after the trade deadline"....at which we'd better be sellers.....
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jan 21, 2016 12:40:08 GMT -5
Bergevin speaks: Q: Where are things at with Price? A: Well, it's been slower than we expected. Injuries....everybody's body is different. His position is very demanding for his injury. He hasn't had a setback.
Another 3 weeks....maybe a month....I don't have an exact date. That's all I need to hear....next it'll be "after the trade deadline"....at which we'd better be sellers..... yup when I heard that I thought "that's it". taking your time with him, Marc? he's your best player, Marc? sit him out, let him recover, and see what happens the rest of the way. that also tells me that MT is staying . he'll start the next season as coach, and we'll be all through this again. I'm getting too old for this.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Jan 21, 2016 12:40:17 GMT -5
Bergevin speaks: =========================================== Q: Where are things at with Price? A: Well, it's been slower than we expected. Injuries....everybody's body is different. His position is very demanding for his injury. He hasn't had a setback.
Another 3 weeks....maybe a month....I don't have an exact date. =========================================== That's all I need to hear for now....he might as well have said "after the trade deadline"....at which we'd better be sellers..... Keep him out for the year, clean up at the deadline if you are out of it, and tank. Austin Matthews is there for us if we want.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jan 21, 2016 12:42:41 GMT -5
Paraphrased:
I always have a line of communication with Michel.....but the decisions stop with me.
We have a good relationship....we see a lot of the same things....
Michel and the players are not going anywhere.
My job is to make the team better.....in today's NHL is hard to make transactions....
I'm not going to sacrifice our future....
A deal has to be both short and long-term...
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jan 21, 2016 12:51:49 GMT -5
Marinaro with 3 questions:
1. Did you think that even without Price, that you would be the worst team in the NHL?
No....I didn't think this was going to happen....
But losing the best player in the world....at a key position.....is going to hurt.
Do I still believe in this group without Carey Price? Yes!
Mike and Ben are doing their job the best they can. But nobody is Carey Price....
We have to find a way to win without him...
2. Markov's ice time. 24 minutes vs. Chicago. 26 vs. St. Louis....used in the 3-on-3.
Andrei's IQ is among the tops in the league.
As you get older, you slow down....Andrei still is a very important piece of our team. Keeping his ice time in check is sometimes hard to do.
I believe he can bounce back.
3. Does this vote of confidence extend to the end of the season for Therrien and his staff?
Yes, I'm going that far. It's on me. (later, after another question). He's an excellent coach. If you're in a foxhole....you want him beside you. An excellent human being. He works really well with the players....trying to make the team better every day. That's what I like about Michel Therrien.
|
|
|
Post by habsburgher on Jan 21, 2016 12:57:55 GMT -5
Another perspective ... Stu Cowan: Bergevin needs to answer for many of the Canadiens' woes
STU COWAN, MONTREAL GAZETTE More from Stu Cowan, Montreal Gazette Published on: January 20, 2016 | Last Updated: January 20, 2016 7:44 PM ESTThe Canadiens should not fire coach Michel Therrien. Not yet. While fans seem to be putting most — if not all — of the blame for the Canadiens’ downfall on Therrien, it’s time for general manager Marc Bergevin to put on one of his fancy suits — which are starting to lose their shine — and answer some questions about what the heck is going on with his team. Therrien definitely deserves some of the blame for the Canadiens’ fall from grace after a franchise-record 9-0 start to the season to sitting in 10th place in the Eastern Conference and out of the playoffs following Tuesday night’s 4-1 loss to the Boston Bruins dropped them to 23-20-4. Fans showed their frustration Tuesday night at the Bell Centre by booing 37-year-old defenceman Andrei Markov, who made a brutal giveaway in the first period to give the Bruins a 1-0 lead. After the game, Therrien defended his veteran defenceman by saying that when all players get to “a certain age” their mind and body aren’t always in sync. That begs the question, why is Therrien playing the 37-year-old an average of 22:52 per game — second only to P.K. Subban’s 25:55? And why — oh, why!? — is Markov on the ice during three-on-three overtime when the coach has skaters like Subban, Jeff Petry, Nathan Beaulieu and Mark Barberio on the blue line? Another question is why — oh, why!? — did the Canadiens send rookie Daniel Carr back down to the AHL’s St. John’s IceCaps and call up Jacob de la Rose, only to make de la Rose a healthy scratch against the Bruins? Carr was one of the few Canadiens players who had been scoring some goals and was turning into Brendan Gallagher Lite with his willingness to crash the net. The rest of the storyThe problem is not Berg, he inherited an average team with a great goaltender and we are still an average team with a great goaltender. The problems is there are not enough difference makers on this team, and in the system. Not enough tradable assests and overall assests in the organization. This IMO goes back to average drafting.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Jan 21, 2016 13:15:05 GMT -5
]The problem is not Berg, he inherited an average team with a great goaltender and we are still an average team with a great goaltender. The problems is there are not enough difference makers on this team, and in the system. Not enough tradable assests and overall assests in the organization. This IMO goes back to average drafting. Berg supposedly drafted a stud centre at #3 overall....and his foxhole coach has used him PRIMARILY on the wing in favour of David Desharnais.... Drafting is one thing. How about development/usage once players are in the system? What's going on with Lefebvre on the farm? The bottom line is: with Carey Price, we're in the Top 3 in the division....but not a true contender. That notion crashed and burned last year. Without Price...we've been BY FAR the worst team in the league over the past 21 games..... Berg has to start making some bold moves...to make the most of Price's window. Otherwise, as franko said above....it'll be more of the same next year....and the year after that...
|
|
|
Post by habsburgher on Jan 21, 2016 13:26:33 GMT -5
]The problem is not Berg, he inherited an average team with a great goaltender and we are still an average team with a great goaltender. The problems is there are not enough difference makers on this team, and in the system. Not enough tradable assests and overall assests in the organization. This IMO goes back to average drafting. Berg supposedly drafted a stud centre at #3 overall....and his foxhole coach has used him PRIMARILY on the wing in favour of David Desharnais.... Drafting is one thing. How about development/usage once players are in the system? What's going on with Lefebvre on the farm? The bottom line is: with Carey Price, we're in the Top 3 in the division....but not a true contender. That notion crashed and burned last year. Without Price...we've been BY FAR the worst team in the league over the past 21 games..... Berg has to start making some bold moves...to make the most of Price's window. Otherwise, as franko said above....it'll be more of the same next year....and the year after that... You make good points.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Jan 21, 2016 13:29:28 GMT -5
I just heard a man making excuse after excuse.
Falling on your own sword is sweet and all, but it's just a PR stunt. It's not actually taking accountability. Taking accountability requires action. So you say you have screwed up, ok, now how are you going to fix it?
Oh I see your solution to fixing it is to do nothing, keep everything the same and basically say "we were only good because of our goalie", we didn't deserve some of our wins this year, and MT is my man until the end of the year. All that was needed to make this truly laughable would be a giant No Excuses banner behind him (I would photoshop Bush's Mission Accomplished speech if I could for this)
All I heard was doublespeak masked as manliness. Marinaro totally bought into, and I can tell by Nilan's voice that he is not 100% sold.
The single greatest flaw in the team that he took over was the gap down the middle. The drumbeat about that has been consistent. Every single fan, whether casual or hardcore knows this. Every single one of us knows there is this kid named Galchenyuk who was drafted to be molded into that, and every single one of us can see the epic failure in his development that both MT and Bergy are responsible for. That alone should cost them both their jobs.
But hey, bravo for saying it's on you, real great show of character there Bergy.
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Jan 21, 2016 13:43:49 GMT -5
Bergevin speaks: =========================================== Q: Where are things at with Price? A: Well, it's been slower than we expected. Injuries....everybody's body is different. His position is very demanding for his injury. He hasn't had a setback.
Another 3 weeks....maybe a month....I don't have an exact date. =========================================== That's all I need to hear for now....he might as well have said "after the trade deadline"....at which we'd better be sellers..... This is BS. Just tell us what the injury is & why it's taking so long & maybe fans would understand. This veil of secrecy is ridiculous. Hell, Ben Roethlisberger got on the radio before a playoff game & told everybody exactly what was wrong. Probably the Steelers most important player. The secrecy, the inaction, the excuses. I've had enough. Bergevin is getting a 7 figure salary to improve the team & he hasn't done it.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jan 21, 2016 13:51:36 GMT -5
Foxhole coach who pigeonholes players.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jan 21, 2016 14:03:17 GMT -5
Buwhahaha! Nilan.
|
|