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Post by franko on Nov 4, 2016 19:14:10 GMT -5
and others say "Vote for Trump? Go to . . . !" |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 4, 2016 20:18:03 GMT -5
I agree with much of what you say, Cranky. I don't believe most Republicans care for Trump. There are probably a large number who vomit every time he's mentioned. There also appear to be a large number of voters who don't care for Clinton as well. The issue for me is that a 'true' Republican couldn't possibly vote for Trump. If I were a true Republican in the US, I'd vote for governor etc and not vote for President, or spoil that ballot. I'm anything but a fan of Harper's and if Trump was running for the Liberals or NDP, I wouldn't vote for either. In the past, I've picked the Hippo party or Marijuana party when I didn't like the candidates of the 'major' parties. That would send the right message to the RNC. Get a better candidate. Vomit would be an understatement. I have some shooting buddies, yes, we use real guns on barely mortal steel target.....and occasional errant Bambis. The are ALL Republican by vote, mostly based on conservative economics and somewhat conservative social beliefs and I have to tell you, there is no Democrat on the planet that hates Trump more then they do. They too see at exactly as I do and have laid out in this thread. But here is their problem as they see it. Vote for Hillary and you get more of the same policies they don't agree on TOP of their distrust and suspicion of corruption by her. So as much as they hate Trump, yes HATE, they pray if they vote for him that he is all bluster and wont be allowed to stray by both Houses. They like I don't believe that mostly moderate Republicans will allow Trump to go off the tracks. There will be no wall, no trade policies torn up, no ban on anybody wearing different clothing. On top of that, there is the Supreme court that can and will limit any unconstitutional meanderings. Further, BECAUSE rthey are Republican and closer to their Republican politicians, they know that Trump is not what those politicians believe....or support. As for politicians themselves, contrary to media twisting, the vast majority of Republican politicians are moderate. Just like Democrats, Liberals and Conservatives. Although one would never know that if the political diet consisted of biased confirmation in Politico, Huffington or CBC. They too hate Trump but given the Republicans obviously broken road to Presidential candidates, they get Trump. So now what? If they back-stab Trump with a two foot knife, which they really love to do, they lose the segment of voters that is simply not going to be made up by the center and undecided. Survival for a better day versus sure political suicide. So they reluctantly keep quiet and hope that if he becomes President, they will contain him....or if he goes away, the center hasn't been traumatized. So you see that you or I can declare and take a more righteous.......then those who are actually affected by the outcome. As for me.....I like Romney and when he lost, I though that by 2016, Republicans will get their act together and field what I suspected then would be a landslide win. I never saw Trump coming and even six months ago, I thought that they would quietly do a hatchet job on him. Or not so quietly. I didn't care. But they let their highly partisan system and delegates run away with their selection. And here we are..... ReadRead I don't like Trump the conceited arrogant person but I do like his policies and leadership. He multitasks and manages dozens of different businesses in dozens of cities and countries delegating responsibility to local management while providing overall direction. His endeavors while not all successful win more often than lose. I intensely dislike Hillary and another four years of failed policies is not the change in direction we need. The corruption of Clinton and deleted emails about wedding plans, meting with the attourney. General to discuss golf, charitable foundation, attacks on women raped by Bill all make it impossible for me to support her. There were better candidates with Romney and Rubio among my favorites but that is water under the bridge. I have a real problem with Republicans willing to sit back and allow Hillary to win. If I am on the team and I don't like my goaltender, I don't allow the opposition to skate in and shoot at him. You play for the team and do your job to win. I recently turned from Europe and bringing in Muslim terrorists from countries where they are destroying is not the answer to our problems. The Saudis and Quatar governments don't let them in. Even if only two percent are terrorists it is unacceptable and unnecessary. We have children of our own that need better schooling and go to bed hungry. We already are swamped with homeless veterans living under overpasses. Trump is telling the people what they want to hear and he has a loyal following of Americans who defeated incumbent establishment candidates and added newcomers to the Republican Party. Anybody but Hillary and in this Aase it is now Trump! |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 4, 2016 20:31:12 GMT -5
I can see it getting lower ... A Guy In A Trump Shirt Carried A Gun Outside Of A Virginia Polling Place. Authorities Say That’s Fine. Link |
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Post by jkr on Nov 7, 2016 12:09:44 GMT -5
Vomit would be an understatement. I have some shooting buddies, yes, we use real guns on barely mortal steel target.....and occasional errant Bambis. The are ALL Republican by vote, mostly based on conservative economics and somewhat conservative social beliefs and I have to tell you, there is no Democrat on the planet that hates Trump more then they do. They too see at exactly as I do and have laid out in this thread. But here is their problem as they see it. Vote for Hillary and you get more of the same policies they don't agree on TOP of their distrust and suspicion of corruption by her. So as much as they hate Trump, yes HATE, they pray if they vote for him that he is all bluster and wont be allowed to stray by both Houses. They like I don't believe that mostly moderate Republicans will allow Trump to go off the tracks. There will be no wall, no trade policies torn up, no ban on anybody wearing different clothing. On top of that, there is the Supreme court that can and will limit any unconstitutional meanderings. Further, BECAUSE rthey are Republican and closer to their Republican politicians, they know that Trump is not what those politicians believe....or support. As for politicians themselves, contrary to media twisting, the vast majority of Republican politicians are moderate. Just like Democrats, Liberals and Conservatives. Although one would never know that if the political diet consisted of biased confirmation in Politico, Huffington or CBC. They too hate Trump but given the Republicans obviously broken road to Presidential candidates, they get Trump. So now what? If they back-stab Trump with a two foot knife, which they really love to do, they lose the segment of voters that is simply not going to be made up by the center and undecided. Survival for a better day versus sure political suicide. So they reluctantly keep quiet and hope that if he becomes President, they will contain him....or if he goes away, the center hasn't been traumatized. So you see that you or I can declare and take a more righteous.......then those who are actually affected by the outcome. As for me.....I like Romney and when he lost, I though that by 2016, Republicans will get their act together and field what I suspected then would be a landslide win. I never saw Trump coming and even six months ago, I thought that they would quietly do a hatchet job on him. Or not so quietly. I didn't care. But they let their highly partisan system and delegates run away with their selection. And here we are..... ReadRead I don't like Trump the conceited arrogant person but I do like his policies and leadership. He multitasks and manages dozens of different businesses in dozens of cities and countries delegating responsibility to local management while providing overall direction. His endeavors while not all successful win more often than lose. I intensely dislike Hillary and another four years of failed policies is not the change in direction we need. The corruption of Clinton and deleted emails about wedding plans, meting with the attourney. General to discuss golf, charitable foundation, attacks on women raped by Bill all make it impossible for me to support her. Be careful how you throw around rape allegations. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 7, 2016 21:37:20 GMT -5
ReadRead I don't like Trump the conceited arrogant person but I do like his policies and leadership. He multitasks and manages dozens of different businesses in dozens of cities and countries delegating responsibility to local management while providing overall direction. His endeavors while not all successful win more often than lose. I intensely dislike Hillary and another four years of failed policies is not the change in direction we need. The corruption of Clinton and deleted emails about wedding plans, meting with the attourney. General to discuss golf, charitable foundation, attacks on women raped by Bill all make it impossible for me to support her. Be careful how you throw around rape allegations. There are many subtle kinds of rape. Physically forcing a weaker partner, sex with an underage or intellectually handicapped partner, continuing after being told no, intimidated by a person who is an employer or superior on a subordinate, employing the sheriffs to deliver unwilling partners. I can not accept the statement, " I never had sexual relations between with that woman, not one time." Define sexual relations. I consider lying to congress a more serious offense that consensual relations and his wife attacking women who were raped is heinous. They are both evil, lying despicable people. I don't consider Trump to be a choirboy. Trump is not a sophisticated orator. He is the least bad of a Hobson's choice. The Clinton story changed when the blue dress appeared. There are a lot of women telling the similar stories but lack the dress ass proof. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Nov 8, 2016 9:42:21 GMT -5
The thing with Trump is that he says what a lot of people are thinking but are unwilling to say because it is not necessary the right thing or politically correct thing to do. A lot of people want our governments to take care of our home first before helping others. Just a few examples:
Sending troops overseas to fight other countries wars
Housing for Syrians over homeless (including veterans)
Providing foreign aid like food and medicine vs. local food banks and kitchens.
All are noble causes, some just feel that our countries (Canada, USA) do too much.
*** What I say here might or might not be how I personally feel regarding the subject. ***
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Post by frozone on Nov 8, 2016 13:23:48 GMT -5
The thing with Trump is that he says what a lot of people are thinking but are unwilling to say because it is not necessary the right thing or politically correct thing to do. A lot of people want our governments to take care of our home first before helping others. Just a few examples: Sending troops overseas to fight other countries wars Housing for Syrians over homeless (including veterans) Providing foreign aid like food and medicine vs. local food banks and kitchens. All are noble causes, some just feel that our countries (Canada, USA) do too much. *** What I say here might or might not be how I personally feel regarding the subject. *** Which is why I'm puzzled that Ron Paul didn't appeal more to Americans, especially those who currently find themselves voting for Trump. Imo, the "make America great again" would have applied best to Ron Paul's policies than Trumps. Ron Paul actually had a plan. There's just so many things that bug me about this election. If America wanted a protest vote, then why not Ron Paul? Why not Bernie Sanders? Both passionate, principled people. Why were they unable to gain enough traction, yet Trump is practically bulletproof. |
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Post by Polarice on Nov 8, 2016 13:28:17 GMT -5
After the midnight vote Trump is ahead 32-25.
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Post by jkr on Nov 8, 2016 15:12:59 GMT -5
After the midnight vote Trump is ahead 32-25. Is that % points or the totals after 57 votes? |
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Post by Tankdriver on Nov 8, 2016 15:26:26 GMT -5
It is votes within a county in New Hampshire. The state seats are still up for grabs.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 8, 2016 23:26:02 GMT -5
The DOW Jones keeps diving ... unbelievable people can vote that way ...
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Post by blny on Nov 9, 2016 0:26:43 GMT -5
He captured the white hill billy vote. The uneducated came out in droves. He got that white vote that guys like Romney never could get to come out. It's not just that though. He gained with white, college educated, women too. In a number of states, he gained significant percentage points. He captured those that think the Washington DC establishment need change - even though the GOP will win the house and the senate is 50/50. He made visits this week to Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. He's ahead in Wisconsin and Michigan. His last minute trips had huge turnouts.
I think the Democratic party underestimated how much people dislike Hillary and the Clinton family. There may be some who voted against her because she's a woman, but I don't believe that was the driving factor. I think it was about disliking her as a person.
I saw a graphic on NBC, which made a point to discuss the percentage of people who voted for third parties. Johnson and Klein got twice as many votes as they did in 2012. In 2012, those third parties got a combined 4% of the total vote. Tonight, they got 9%. That was perhaps no more apparent than in Florida. Trump cleaned up in the rural areas, which would be expected. Enough of the urban vote was swayed away from Clinton that it cost her the state. At one point Trump had a lead in total votes of about 116,000. Johnson, at that point, had more than 240,000 votes cast for him in Florida. If Clinton gets just half of those votes, she eeks out Florida and its 29 EC votes.
CBC was live in Cleveland tonight, early in the evening. The school they were that was a voting station was all but empty. It appeared the only people there were elections officials. That was a bad, and early, sign. Ohio rural areas typically lean red, while Cleveland, Cincy, and Columbus go blue. He won by almost 10 points there. That's a virtual landslide in a state that every President has won on election night over the last 100 plus years. You don't win the election if you don't win that state.
Dow is now down 840 points. Almost 5%.
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Post by Polarice on Nov 9, 2016 7:23:53 GMT -5
He also got the Black and Hispanic vote....what does that tell ya. They interviewed a black trump supporter at one of the rallies last night and he said "No Black man is going to vote for a white woman."
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 9, 2016 7:52:52 GMT -5
This election was more about the rejection of the political establishment than it was about the validation of Trump being someone qualified to be president. The republicans control the Executive branch and the Congress... lets see what they can do. imo, the markets tanked because the financial elite who bought and paid for Hillary where pissed an outsider (not part of the political establishment or "old boys club") was going to be president.
Otoh. many democrats were furious that the party did everything they could to ensure a Hillary nomination by undermining Sanders campaign at every step.
IMO, Sanders would have beaten Trump because he does not have the political baggage Hillary has and the Trump campaign did a great job of getting that message across... "Crooked Hillary"... "Lyin' Hillary"... it worked.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2016 8:10:24 GMT -5
I was working all night and didnt get a chance to see the results until i got home......and boy was i shocked.
This comes down to people wanting change and rejecting the same old same old. Then there is those "uneducated" who are tired of getting look at with contempt. Add a strong dislike for Clinton who represents the establishment and deeply distrusted ...and voila...Trump is President.
Trump or Clinton, I'm expecting a recession, now it's only a matter of degree and depth. So buckle up....
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2016 8:18:56 GMT -5
This election was more about the rejection of the political establishment than it was about the validation of Trump being someone qualified to be president. The republicans control the Executive branch and the Congress... lets see what they can do. imo, the markets tanked because the financial elite who bought and paid for Hillary where pissed an outsider (not part of the political establishment or "old boys club") was going to be president. Otoh. many democrats were furious that the party did everything they could to ensure a Hillary nomination by undermining Sanders campaign at every step. IMO, Sanders would have beaten Trump because he does not have the political baggage Hillary has and the Trump campaign did a great job of getting that message across... "Crooked Hillary"... "Lyin' Hillary"... it worked. I agree but not as far as Sanders. Independents are not going to buy into 10 trillion of spending and climate change preaching 24/7. Left news media were excited but Joe Average cares about jobs and ecomomy. Proof is that we now have Trump. Both parties have a lot more capable people the either one of them, but that is now history. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 9, 2016 8:48:51 GMT -5
Trump or Clinton, I'm expecting a recession, now it's only a matter of degree and depth. So buckle up.... I've worked hard all my life to get to the point where I'd like to retire ... however, I suspect I may have to keep working a bit longer in order to retire the way I want ... think there's a difference between Canadian and American policies ... Cheers. |
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Post by frozone on Nov 9, 2016 8:57:53 GMT -5
He also got the Black and Hispanic vote....what does that tell ya. They interviewed a black trump supporter at one of the rallies last night and he said "No Black man is going to vote for a white woman." Are you sure about that? I heard that blacks voted for HC at something like 88% and Hispanics at 65%. I think more than anything, Trump won the Racist/Sexist vote, which will undoubtedly include a certain percentage of Blacks and Hispanics (like that guy from the interview that you saw). |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2016 9:08:10 GMT -5
Last thing before i get some shuteye......
Recently, i was in a community meeting about redeveloping an area. The politician went on and on about his vision of the community. He was oarticularly proud to pronouunce that the community will have 1 new very high paying green job for every two residents. After about half an hour of rinse and repeat, he finally laid out what he meant by high paying jobs. He vision was a research center to study ground pollution.
Sure, pollution is important but how on earth are you going to create 10,000 jobs out of "studies"? When he said those jobs are going to create a billion dollars of economic activity, he failed to mention that he needs a billion in taxes.
On and on the evening went with pie in the sky dreams and half baked ideas that made no sense. Funny thing, other then stupid me, nobody question the junk, err, great geeen visions and ideas he had. One of them was central heating and cooling for a community. Why? Because he saw that somewhere and he was told that it was 90% efficient. When i mentioned that why was that necessary when for a few thousand you can buy a 93% efficient gas furnace....he ignored me and moved to the other side of the room.
How about a giant vacuum for every 4 blocks to suck your garbage? Sounds great right? How about $15,000 to hook it up to every house? And a 500hp motor running constantly? But hey, to his superficial mind it was a great and "green". I should of moved to the other sidd of the room and asked him how constantly running a 500 hp electric motor is green?
Nowhere in that speech did i hear about creating real jobs. Or actual costs. Or how to pay for his fantasies...err green initiatives.
Given how far up in their own ummm, world and fantasies some of these politicians live and think in, where is the suprise that people are getting tired of them? Or feel they are disconnected?
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2016 9:20:13 GMT -5
Trump or Clinton, I'm expecting a recession, now it's only a matter of degree and depth. So buckle up.... I've worked hard all my life to get to the point where I'd like to retire ... however, I suspect I may have to keep working a bit longer in order to retire the way I want ... think there's a difference between Canadian and American policies ... Cheers. Given Ontario debt and more debt comming from Junior, get ready to work even longer. I suspect that in a decade or two, the universality of our health care will be a lot less universal and have our wallets attached to it. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 9, 2016 9:31:37 GMT -5
I've worked hard all my life to get to the point where I'd like to retire ... however, I suspect I may have to keep working a bit longer in order to retire the way I want ... think there's a difference between Canadian and American policies ... Cheers. Given Ontario debt and more debt comming from Junior, get ready to work even longer. I suspect that in a decade or two, the universality of our health care will be a lot less universal and have our wallets attached to it. I was retired already once, but Mrs Dis had a problem with my sloth routine ... so, when this gig dropped on my lap I took it ... I feel very fortunate to not only have a job, but a very good job that I actually enjoy doing ... I suspect I'll be here for the duration of this contract (another 2 years) ... Cheers. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 9, 2016 9:31:43 GMT -5
He also got the Black and Hispanic vote....what does that tell ya. They interviewed a black trump supporter at one of the rallies last night and he said "No Black man is going to vote for a white woman." Are you sure about that? I heard that blacks voted for HC at something like 88% and Hispanics at 65%. I think more than anything, Trump won the Racist/Sexist vote, which will undoubtedly include a certain percentage of Blacks and Hispanics (like that guy from the interview that you saw). From what I have read, the Hispanic vote is generally conservative in nature, so HC did well to get 65% |
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Post by Polarice on Nov 9, 2016 9:31:59 GMT -5
He also got the Black and Hispanic vote....what does that tell ya. They interviewed a black trump supporter at one of the rallies last night and he said "No Black man is going to vote for a white woman." Are you sure about that? I heard that blacks voted for HC at something like 88% and Hispanics at 65%. I think more than anything, Trump won the Racist/Sexist vote, which will undoubtedly include a certain percentage of Blacks and Hispanics (like that guy from the interview that you saw). Yep quite sure...according to the news the democrats minority numbers dropped between 4-10% depending on the state. |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 9, 2016 10:26:19 GMT -5
The result says a lot more about the Clintons and corruption than it does about anything else.
Interesting times.
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Post by Tankdriver on Nov 9, 2016 11:15:03 GMT -5
Those who seek out change are more likely to go out and vote that those that are content. 8 years of democrats in the white house is too long of a time for some. If the roles were reversed, ie, Republican President, I think the chances of Clinton winning would of been better. Personally, I got the impression that Clinton was the "chosen one" for president in 2016 as soon as Obama was elected in 2008. I also think she coasted a little bit after the debates and the scandales that came up, did her in.
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Post by franko on Nov 9, 2016 11:20:48 GMT -5
He also got the Black and Hispanic vote....what does that tell ya. They interviewed a black trump supporter at one of the rallies last night and he said "No Black man is going to vote for a white woman." Are you sure about that? I heard that blacks voted for HC at something like 88% and Hispanics at 65%. I think more than anything, Trump won the Racist/Sexist vote, which will undoubtedly include a certain percentage of Blacks and Hispanics (like that guy from the interview that you saw). big problem for Hillary is that she didn't get all of the Millennial vote . . . she got some-most, but some went to Trump as a big you-know-what to the Democratic "elites" for foisting Hillary on them instead of allowing a fair fight for Bernie . . . and many of them just went to bed without voting. was listening to one pollster who suggested that in this election 20-20% of people hated both candidates (more than in any other election). and that 50% of people polled absolutely hated Hillary, and 50% absolutely hated Donald. I'm 100% certain that this is going to be an interesting 4 years. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 9, 2016 11:21:12 GMT -5
The election results are difficult for me to understand because I've never been in as dire straits as many Americans are ... I was listening to some commentary last night and the feeling is that many Americans are so fed up traditional politics/corruption that they went completely off the map in hopes of improving their quality of life ... also, Trump didn't sugar-coat anything and this might have carried a lot of weight with many, as well ... having said that, I'll quote Rex Murphy by saying (paraphrase) that, had politicians properly dealt with key issues straight-on (instead of finding politically correct solutions), guys like Trump wouldn't have a voice at all ... as it is now, folks seem to be fed up with that kind avoidance ... enter the-talking-head-Trump (Google Steve Bannon and Robert Mercer; two guys who are pulling Trump's strings) ... and if timing means anything, Wikileaks released proof that the Clinton Foundation is nothing more than Chelsea Clinton's personal checking account (see therein) ... I think people in the States are fed up with that kind of corruption, self-entitlement ... there are other things out there that prove the Clintons are corrupt, but Trump is not out of the woods either ... he kept hammering away at Clinton for deleting emails, but no one is questioning Trump for deleting emails in defiance of court orders ... all that said, I'm not quite sure what to make of this ... there couldn't be two more unqualified people for one of the world's highest offices and I wish our American brethren all the best ... honest ... Cheers. |
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Post by frozone on Nov 9, 2016 11:22:16 GMT -5
Are you sure about that? I heard that blacks voted for HC at something like 88% and Hispanics at 65%. I think more than anything, Trump won the Racist/Sexist vote, which will undoubtedly include a certain percentage of Blacks and Hispanics (like that guy from the interview that you saw). Yep quite sure...according to the news the democrats minority numbers dropped between 4-10% depending on the state. Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, her numbers were down compared to Obama's Black and Hispanic support. There were probably a lot of Blacks and Hispanics who did not bother voting this time around also. Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but I wouldn't say that Trump got the Black and Hispanic vote (as you can see, I'm having a very hard time giving Trump any sort of credit or benefit of the doubt). |
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 9, 2016 11:33:04 GMT -5
I could go on a long diatribe about how the elitist hubris of the Democratic Party made this possible – and indeed, I’ve tried to write it a couple of times already – but I just can’t. I just feel sick to my stomach. The last time I felt this bad… or anywhere close to this bad, because this is actually worse… was when Dubya invaded Iraq. I correctly predicted at the time the quagmire and long-lasting effects that decision would have, saying something like it would take at least three generations to fix and that it will get a lot worse before it even starts to get better. Called it the worst foreign policy decision since Chamberlin’s “peace in our time” deal with Hitler. I was right on that one.
And I think this is going to be worse. Perhaps much worse.
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Post by Polarice on Nov 9, 2016 11:33:20 GMT -5
Yep quite sure...according to the news the democrats minority numbers dropped between 4-10% depending on the state. Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, her numbers were down compared to Obama's Black and Hispanic support. There were probably a lot of Blacks and Hispanics who did not bother voting this time around also. Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but I wouldn't say that Trump got the Black and Hispanic vote (as you can see, I'm having a very hard time giving Trump any sort of credit or benefit of the doubt). That would be true if the amount of votes didn't increase for the Republicans. But I agree it's hard to give any credit to Trump. |
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