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Post by BadCompany on Jul 25, 2005 10:05:18 GMT -5
The Stars did take Martin Vagner with their first pick in 2002. The list of North American first picks during Gainey's tenure is underwhelming: Todd Harvey, Jason Botterill, Jarome Iginla, Richard Jackman, Brenden Morrow, John Erskine, Michael Ryan, Steve Ott, Jason Bacashihua. Mind you, the Stars usually placed themselves out of high pick territory with their regular season finishes. So far, since he has been GM of the Habs (May 2003) they have drafted seven European players (out of 20 total)—Andrei Kostitsyn, Christopher Heino-Lindberg, Oskari Korpikari, Jaroslav Halak, Alexei Yemelin, Mikhail Grabovsky, Mark Streit. This seems to indicate that Savard and Timmins pretty much have had free reign over the process. Now, with the new CBA provision that Europeans, like their North American counterparts, must be signed 2 years after being drafted or they become free agents, we are likely to to see fewer Europeans being drafted—especially in the early rounds. Kopitar sounds like a Gainey-type player. As do Brûlé and Ryan. Vagner was playing in the QMJHL at the time. While Savard and Timmins seem to like the Euros (perhaps it gives them a good excuse to travel overseas, to scout the prospects), only one of the players you listed was drafted in the first round (Kostitsyin), and wasn’t Gainey on the job for like, all of three weeks before that draft was held? All the others were drafted in the 3rd round or later (when the head of scouting usually makes the choices). |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 25, 2005 10:22:15 GMT -5
The Stars did take Martin Vagner with their first pick in 2002. The list of North American first picks during Gainey's tenure is underwhelming: Todd Harvey, Jason Botterill, Jarome Iginla, Richard Jackman, Brenden Morrow, John Erskine, Michael Ryan, Steve Ott, Jason Bacashihua. Mind you, the Stars usually placed themselves out of high pick territory with their regular season finishes. So far, since he has been GM of the Habs (May 2003) they have drafted seven European players (out of 20 total)—Andrei Kostitsyn, Christopher Heino-Lindberg, Oskari Korpikari, Jaroslav Halak, Alexei Yemelin, Mikhail Grabovsky, Mark Streit. This seems to indicate that Savard and Timmins pretty much have had free reign over the process. Now, with the new CBA provision that Europeans, like their North American counterparts, must be signed 2 years after being drafted or they become free agents, we are likely to to see fewer Europeans being drafted—especially in the early rounds. Kopitar sounds like a Gainey-type player. As do Brûlé and Ryan. Vagner was playing in the QMJHL at the time. Nonetheless, he's a Czech, not a North American. Despite coming on board just prior to the 2003 draft Gainey seemed to leave well-enough alone. How much truth there is to the theory that the GM actually makes the first pick  —in any event the pick is based on the assessments of his scouting staff. BTW, Dallas' first four picks in the 2002 draft were Europeans. The 2000 draft saw the Stars choose 8 Europeans out of their 10 picks. Looks like BPA (based on in-house reports) for Bo. * Stars draft picks with Gainey as GM |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 25, 2005 11:53:05 GMT -5
Looks like a consensus that it will be Kopitar, Brule or Ryan...
Out of the 3, Brule seems like the guy with the highest potential to make it without much question mark. Determination, character, talent, grit and a mean streak... I can see Gainey liking him a lot. If he drops to #5 he won't drop any further IMO.
Kopitar seems like the prototypical "Savardian" player. A Euro that seems to have every classic tools for the job. Personnaly I really do not like the aura of mystery around him though and I hope we do not blow our highest pick in decades on a guy that has "risky pick" all over him. Last time we did this, we passed on Jeff Carter to pick a guy that remains an AHL project.
Ryan. Aaaaah skating... skating, skating, skating... While we all can name great players that were not recognize for their skating and see every year great skating prospects turn to bust but skating remains the Great Fear... Personally I think this is way overrated. I mean really, nobody would make it as a top 5 pick if he had skating problems. So Ryan isn't a jet but on the other hand he's able to do everything in the game and put his name on the scoresheet with regularity. If Brule is gone, I'd like for us to pick him.
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Post by doncherry on Jul 25, 2005 12:29:53 GMT -5
. Then there's Brule. Many say he's the next Peca, which is nice. He's got loads of grit and talent. He plays bigger than his size, but I'm not sure Gainey wants another prospect with that sort of label.
I agree.
Time for the Habs to pick a player that plays big,because he is big.
Ryan is a horse and skilled.
Habs are lacking the dominant top 6 forward that can get to the slot/front of the net and be immovable[and not a rent a player like Kovalev]
No more creampuffs.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 25, 2005 12:37:48 GMT -5
Gilbert is la crème de la crème Brûlé.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 25, 2005 13:35:34 GMT -5
4. Bobby Ryan TEAM: Owen Sound Attack (OHL) POSITION: Right Wing HEIGHT: 6'0 WEIGHT: 210 lbs. BORN: 03/17/87 - Cherry Hill, N.J. NOTES AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS: Led Attack with 1.44 points per game and was +30...tallied 128 regular season points over 127 OHL games...Ryan and the Attack went on a string of 20 games with only one loss in 2004-2005...invited to U.S. summer evaluation camp for 2006 World Junior Hockey Championship. BOB MCKENZIE'S TAKE: This player's "life" story has been well documented. The son of a father who so severely beat his mother that the father went to prison for five years, but not before the entire family moved to California and changed the family name from Stevenson to Ryan to avoid the authorities. All that aside, the Owen Sound Attack forward is a big, strong power forward type who can make plays and score goals with a flourish. Scouts debate whether he's a bad skater or just an awkward skater, but he moves well enough to be rated a sure-fire top 5 pick who could go as high as No. 2. Lots of speculation as to how hard Philadelphia Flyer GM Bob Clarke, a close friend of the family, will try to move into a spot to draft Ryan. Statistics GP G A PTS 2004-05 62 37 52 89 5. Anze Kopitar TEAM: Sodertalje SK, (SweJE) POSITION: Centre HEIGHT: 6'2 WEIGHT: 202 lbs. BORN: 08/24/87 - Jesenice, Slovenia NOTES AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS: Finished third in scoring with six goals and two assists and led Slovenia to a second-place finish at the 2004 Under-18 World Championship...split time between the SuperElite League and the Slovenian Senior National Team...selected in the second round by the Regina Pats in the 2005 CHL Import Draft. BOB MCKENZIE'S TAKE: The Slovenian big man played junior hockey in Sweden this season, but it was his ability to play with the men in the senior world championships that demonstrated to many scouts that he's a legit top five pick, in spite of his country's lack of hockey pedigree. Kopitar is physically mature and has excellent offensive instincts, but there are bound to some reservations. As one scout said, "The kid could turn out to be a great player, but if you're picking that high, do you really want to take a chance on a kid from a country that has produced no NHL talent? Look at what happened to those Swiss first rounders. I don't care what you say, it's a gamble taking kids with unconventional backgrounds." Statistics GP G A PTS 2004-05 30 28 21 49 6. Gilbert Brule TEAM: Vancouver Giants (WHL) POSITION: Centre HEIGHT: 5'10 WEIGHT: 175 lbs. BORN: 01/01/87 - Vancouver, B.C. NOTES AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS: Grabbed the spotlight at the 2005 CHL Prospects Game with a hat-trick...named the WHL Rookie of the Year in 2004...named CHL's 2005 Scholastic Player of the Year and the WHL's Western Conference First All-Star Team. BOB MCKENZIE'S TAKE: They say the combative Vancouver Giant forward is only 5-foot-10, but he's much bigger when you take into account the chip on his shoulder. One scout described him as a more skilled version of Michael Peca, which is why a guy like Don Cherry thinks the world of Brule. Brule likes to score goals, and is good at it, but he also enjoys hitting and scrapping and battling as much or more. Some scouts wonder, at Brule's size, how that will play at the next level, but there's no disputing his talent and many believe he'll be a better player when he learns to pick his spots on the physical side and concentrate more on his skill game. Statistics GP G A PTS 2004-05 70 39 48 87 - www.tsn.ca/nhl/draft/feature.asp?fid=7329As we say in the US, "I'll take the fifth!" or perhaps I hope Kopitar will drop "down a fifth". |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 25, 2005 14:42:48 GMT -5
#5 overall is a potential franchise player. I'd keep the pick. Last year Gretzky had the #5 overall pick ant took surprise 6'4" Blake Wheeler. Does anybody know how he is developing? Similarities to Kopitar, big, talented, played against weaker competition, huge upside, some downside. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 25, 2005 15:12:38 GMT -5
Two things nag at me about Ryan. His skating seems to be a universal focus of comment—and we know how little that element of the game matters to Savard and Gainey (both of them being regular plough horses in their playing days). Then there was the observation that Ryan generated a large percentage of his offense from behind the net —gonna be kinda pressed for room back there from now on.
For me it's narrowed down to mon copain Kopitar and Gilbert "Don't Call Me Crème" Brûlé.
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Post by TheCaper on Jul 25, 2005 17:05:10 GMT -5
Ryan. Aaaaah skating... skating, skating, skating... While we all can name great players that were not recognize for their skating and see every year great skating prospects turn to bust but skating remains the Great Fear... Personally I think this is way overrated. I mean really, nobody would make it as a top 5 pick if he had skating problems. So Ryan isn't a jet but on the other hand he's able to do everything in the game and put his name on the scoresheet with regularity. If Brule is gone, I'd like for us to pick him. I’m not worried about the skating either. For a player like Ryan, it isn’t about how quick or fluid he is on his skates, it’s all about how strong he is on his skates, how strong he is on the puck. I’ve never seen him play, but from what I gather he is very strong on his skates, with a mindset to play like a bull, and great hands to finish the deal. It’s a proven combination, tried and true. If Gainey stamps his seal of approval on Saturday, then I’m sold. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 25, 2005 18:14:03 GMT -5
Two things nag at me about Ryan. His skating seems to be a universal focus of comment—and we know how little that element of the game matters to Savard and Gainey (both of them being regular plough horses in their playing days). Then there was the observation that Ryan generated a large percentage of his offense from behind the net —gonna be kinda pressed for room back there from now on. For me it's narrowed down to mon copain Kopitar and Gilbert "Don't Call Me Crème" Brûlé. Wasn't Gainey one of the fastest skaters in the league and didn't the Russians marvel at his skating? Maybe I'm having a senior moment? |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 25, 2005 18:34:31 GMT -5
Two things nag at me about Ryan. His skating seems to be a universal focus of comment—and we know how little that element of the game matters to Savard and Gainey (both of them being regular plough horses in their playing days). Then there was the observation that Ryan generated a large percentage of his offense from behind the net —gonna be kinda pressed for room back there from now on. For me it's narrowed down to mon copain Kopitar and Gilbert "Don't Call Me Crème" Brûlé. Wasn't Gainey one of the fastest skaters in the league and didn't the Russians marvel at his skating? Maybe I'm having a senior moment? Heh-heh-heh. Twice in one day.  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 25, 2005 19:55:04 GMT -5
My predictions for how the draft will turn out for the Habs next week: Pittsburgh-Crosby Anaheim -Johnson Carolina -Pouliot Minnesota- Brule Montreal -Ryan/Kopitar. Personally, Johnson would be the guy I want other than Crosby but with Anaheim's forward depth taking him would be a no-brainer in my oppinion Hi roke, Jack Johnson's name came up at the gym earlier today. My buddy and were talking, and he asked where could the Habs use the most help? With the offensive prospects they have in the system, the blueline is where they could use the most help. Jack Johnson would be worth trading up a few places for. I'd like to see him in Montreal. Cheers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2005 20:40:08 GMT -5
My predictions for how the draft will turn out for the Habs next week: Pittsburgh-Crosby Anaheim -Johnson Carolina -Pouliot Minnesota- Brule Montreal -Ryan/Kopitar. Personally, Johnson would be the guy I want other than Crosby but with Anaheim's forward depth taking him would be a no-brainer in my oppinion Hi roke, Jack Johnson's name came up at the gym earlier today. My buddy and were talking, and he asked where could the Habs use the most help? With the offensive prospects they have in the system, the blueline is where they could use the most help. Jack Johnson would be worth trading up a few places for. I'd like to see him in Montreal. Cheers. Seriously, defense wasn't the Habs' biggest letdown in 03-04, it was goal scoring. When push came to shove, the boys weren't able to get any goals by Khabibulin. I think a big, strong power forward like Bobby Ryan can help solve this. Sure, our defense is nothing spectacular either, but I haven't had any complaints about it in this past year. |
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Post by SchoonerGuy on Jul 25, 2005 21:21:11 GMT -5
Two things nag at me about Ryan. His skating seems to be a universal focus of comment—and we know how little that element of the game matters to Savard and Gainey (both of them being regular plough horses in their playing days). Then there was the observation that Ryan generated a large percentage of his offense from behind the net —gonna be kinda pressed for room back there from now on. For me it's narrowed down to mon copain Kopitar and Gilbert "Don't Call Me Crème" Brûlé. Wasn't Gainey one of the fastest skaters in the league and didn't the Russians marvel at his skating? Maybe I'm having a senior moment? Gainey was an extremely fast skater. He won numerous Selke trophies and long-time Russian coach Viktor Tikhonov once called Gainey the best player in the world as he was able to shut down Russian stars with his speed and great defensive play. His skating slowed down some in the mid-80's when he was well into his 30's but he still played a valuable checking role on the top checking line (alongside Carbonneau) right up until his retirement. |
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Post by The Habsome One on Jul 25, 2005 21:55:53 GMT -5
More Kopitar championing, today, 08:19 PM : steblick: I've seen him about 10-12 times live (in Sweden, Estonia and Denmark). A few on TV. Most reports are accurate. deadly from the hash marks in- tremendous goal-scoring instincts, variety of shots- often sudden or disguised, slick heads-up play with the puck (stickhandling and passing) even in traffic, not a great first step or flashy agility but very strong on his legs, bullish- doesn't get knocked off the puck easily, tremendous eye-hand coordination, seems to be liked by everyone- works hard on and off the ice. He seems to be growing steadily too. Vanek and Allison are apt comparisons. thread URL: www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=154315&page=2&pp=15 |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 26, 2005 5:09:23 GMT -5
Pick the best asset available. He can be exchanged at a later date if so desired.
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Post by clear observer on Jul 26, 2005 5:58:41 GMT -5
More Kopitar championing, today, 08:19 PM : steblick: I've seen him about 10-12 times live (in Sweden, Estonia and Denmark). A few on TV. Most reports are accurate. deadly from the hash marks in- tremendous goal-scoring instincts, variety of shots- often sudden or disguised, slick heads-up play with the puck (stickhandling and passing) even in traffic, not a great first step or flashy agility but very strong on his legs, bullish- doesn't get knocked off the puck easily, tremendous eye-hand coordination, seems to be liked by everyone- works hard on and off the ice. He seems to be growing steadily too. Vanek and Allison are apt comparisons. thread URL: www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=154315&page=2&pp=15Sounds like Toronto's Nik Antropov? CO |
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Post by Yeti on Jul 26, 2005 6:29:57 GMT -5
[ Last time we did this, we passed on Jeff Carter to pick a guy that remains an AHL project.
[/quote]
And Carter hasn't played a game in the NHL yet or did he?
I liked what I saw from Kots in the AHL, he was physical and the raw talent and skills is there. The kind of special talent that you expect in a top 10 pick.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2005 6:53:10 GMT -5
Pick the best asset available. He can be exchanged at a later date if so desired. Take a risk! Sounds like Toronto's Nik Antropov? CO Antropov Assets: Isn't hesitant to use his size to knock opponents around. Plays with poise and patience. Possesses good vision and hockey smarts. Flaws Still needs to get stronger in order to play more of a power game at the NHL level. Is prone to mental lapses on the ice. Lacks natural goal-scoring ability.[/u] I think the big difference there is that Kopitar tends to be a sniper, while Antropov is more of a power forward...if he feels like it. |
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Post by The Habsome One on Jul 26, 2005 7:36:59 GMT -5
More Kopitar championing, today, 08:19 PM : steblick: I've seen him about 10-12 times live (in Sweden, Estonia and Denmark). A few on TV. Most reports are accurate. deadly from the hash marks in- tremendous goal-scoring instincts, variety of shots- often sudden or disguised, slick heads-up play with the puck (stickhandling and passing) even in traffic, not a great first step or flashy agility but very strong on his legs, bullish- doesn't get knocked off the puck easily, tremendous eye-hand coordination, seems to be liked by everyone- works hard on and off the ice. He seems to be growing steadily too. Vanek and Allison are apt comparisons. thread URL: www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=154315&page=2&pp=15Sounds like Toronto's Nik Antropov? CO Surely you meant Sundin? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2005 7:44:23 GMT -5
Sounds like Toronto's Nik Antropov? CO Surely you meant Sundin? I wouldn't mind one of those. |
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Post by clear observer on Jul 26, 2005 8:35:55 GMT -5
Well, the "big, tall, lanky, awkward skating, good hands" stuff kinda rang a bell.
Pretty-much characteristics of Antropov.
CO
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 26, 2005 8:44:25 GMT -5
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 26, 2005 9:23:03 GMT -5
Kopitar is virtually fluent in English (mother teaches English in the education system). Not suggesting that Ryan, Brûlé, or any others are functionally deficient in this area—just that it's a big plus when one comes over here from Europe in terms of adjustment on and off the ice (remember the development handicaps faced, to varying degrees by Markov, Perezhogin, and Kostitsyn, for example?).
Sign him now—we only have 2 years! ;D
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 26, 2005 9:31:50 GMT -5
Well, the "big, tall, lanky, awkward skating, good hands" stuff kinda rang a bell. Pretty-much characteristics of Antropov. CO Hey, so long as Kopitar doesn't have to go through the hell of major reconstructive surgeries on both knees before the age of 24, that description sits easy with me. The positive difference in the profiles is that Kopitar si recognized as having just sick offensive skills and upside. 6'2 203lbs, and a growing teenager. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2005 10:01:35 GMT -5
Well, the "big, tall, lanky, awkward skating, good hands" stuff kinda rang a bell. Pretty-much characteristics of Antropov. CO Hey, so long as Kopitar doesn't have to go through the hell of major reconstructive surgeries on both knees before the age of 24, that description sits easy with me. The positive difference in the profiles is that Kopitar si recognized as having just sick offensive skills and upside. 6'2 203lbs, and a growing teenager. Do you think he'll last until #5, though? If he's as good as everyone's been hyping about, he could be gone by 4th pick. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 26, 2005 10:10:30 GMT -5
Hey, so long as Kopitar doesn't have to go through the hell of major reconstructive surgeries on both knees before the age of 24, that description sits easy with me. The positive difference in the profiles is that Kopitar si recognized as having just sick offensive skills and upside. 6'2 203lbs, and a growing teenager. Do you think he'll last until #5, though? If he's as good as everyone's been hyping about, he could be gone by 4th pick. Brûlé and/or Ryan may just as easily be gone. Ain't that what makes drafting this high such a blast!? We kenna lose, laddie. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 26, 2005 11:02:25 GMT -5
Hey, so long as Kopitar doesn't have to go through the hell of major reconstructive surgeries on both knees before the age of 24, that description sits easy with me. The positive difference in the profiles is that Kopitar si recognized as having just sick offensive skills and upside. 6'2 203lbs, and a growing teenager. Do you think he'll last until #5, though? If he's as good as everyone's been hyping about, he could be gone by 4th pick. He was ranked #3 by McKeens: Crosby 5'11/195 Johnson 6'1/200 Kopitar 6'2/220 and growing (younger than the others) Brule 5'10/175 (we're not SHORT of under 6' forwards) Ryan 6'1/215 Bourret 5'9/210 Pouiliot 6'3/180 Rask 6'1/190 Zagrapan 6'1/200 Mikkelson 6'2/180 O'Marra 6'2/195 Skille 6'1/200 Kopitar stands head and shoulders above the rest in size and above all but Crosby in upside potential. I hope he's still there at #5. If not, sniff, Skille and Ryan could give us the size to make a power line with Chipchura. Kopitar could start next year ahead of some Hamilton hopefuls. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 26, 2005 15:39:20 GMT -5
My predictions for how the draft will turn out for the Habs next week: Pittsburgh-Crosby Anaheim -Johnson Carolina -Pouliot Minnesota- Brule Montreal -Ryan/Kopitar. Personally, Johnson would be the guy I want other than Crosby but with Anaheim's forward depth taking him would be a no-brainer in my oppinion Hi roke, Jack Johnson's name came up at the gym earlier today. My buddy and were talking, and he asked where could the Habs use the most help? With the offensive prospects they have in the system, the blueline is where they could use the most help. Jack Johnson would be worth trading up a few places for. I'd like to see him in Montreal. Cheers. Keep the faith, Dis: Ducks shopping the 2nd overall pickTSN.ca Staff 7/26/2005 4:33:14 PM The Pittsburgh Penguins have no intention of trading the first overall pick in Saturday's NHL entry draft, but the finalist in the Sidney Crosby Sweepstakes is shopping the second overall pick, and shopping it hard. Anaheim general manager Brian Burke said he has no qualms about trading the No. 2 pick...for the right price, of course. "I've already gotten eight to 10 calls but I haven't heard anything so far that would cause us to move it, not even close," the Mighty Ducks' GM told TSN. "We will shop this pick. We have a lot of kids ready to step in for us -- Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Joffrey Lupul and Ladislav Smid -- and if we can trade the (No. 2) pick outright for an established player who is a good fit for us, we will do it. And if we get offers to move down a few spots and we can get another (draft) pick, we can do that too. It's really wide open. We want to see what's out there." - www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=131498Hmmm, Koivu and our 5th for Johnson? |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 26, 2005 16:10:24 GMT -5
If Koivu's a UFA, Burke won't do it. If he's an RFA, you might as well throw in Zednik, Komisarek and Kostitsyn, because either way, we're giving up way too much.
Do we have any player who can step in right now for the Ducks? The deal would be our 5th and that player, but he'd have to be in the Bulis range. Not a front line player, but a decent, younger addition to any team. I wouldn't give up any of our prospects such as Higgins, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, etc. Hainsey? Still, there isn't a lot of difference between 5th and 2nd other than position. Are you sure Kopitar isn't a better prospect than Johnson? Lots of ifs and I don't think there's sufficient upside for Gainey to gamble.
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