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Post by blny on Oct 26, 2017 3:51:32 GMT -5
VGK have given Vadim and his agent the permission to contact teams around the league to see if they'd be interested. GMGM will then attempt to work out a return.
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Post by jkr on Oct 26, 2017 5:36:57 GMT -5
I don't want Bergevin making deals.
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Post by blny on Oct 26, 2017 6:24:02 GMT -5
I don't want Bergevin making deals. Neither do I. This is a rather interesting situation though. VGK hasn't handled Ship well. He's played only 3 games. The UFAs they signed are all guys they can move up and down (in large part because the players they could claim in the expansion draft were limited to one-way players). ... Maybe his lack of playing is warranted. VGK is 7-1. So, it's going 'right' on the ice at the moment. I don't think there's any doubt that Ship got off to a tough start given that he started the year in the minors. You know he wasn't expecting that. It's difficult to say what his value would be at this point given potential question marks and a two year deal for $4.5 million a year. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 26, 2017 6:56:21 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie tweeted that the Habs are not interested ... another Jack Todd column appeared on my Twitter feed reminding everyone what happened to the organization the last time an emotional, wholesale change was made ... Jacques Demers and Serge Savard were removed from their jobs and were replaced by Rejean Houle, Mario Tremblay and Ivan Cournoyer ... it turned into an emotional circus under Demers, so I thought his dismissal was warranted, but I never understood the firing of Savard ... he knew the league, the players and the business much better than most of his peers ... read somewhere that he wanted to trade Patrick Roy because he felt Roy was bigger than the team ... maybe that was it ... dunno, but one can argue that we never recovered from that emotional decision ... Shipachyov hasn't shown me that he's a difference-maker in the NHL ... pass ...
Cheers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 26, 2017 6:58:43 GMT -5
Sounds like Habs are not interested.
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Post by blny on Oct 26, 2017 6:59:39 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie tweeted that the Habs are not interested ... Shipachyov hasn't shown me that he's a difference-maker in the NHL ... pass ... Cheers. I knew I'd seen someone post something to twitter, but couldn't remember who. Was sifting through Lebrun's tweets thinking it was him. I put this thread here because I think it an interesting story more than someone Montreal should acquire. I don't know if he could be a difference maker. I don't think he is a savior though. That will have to come from within the room and/or changes elsewhere. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 26, 2017 7:12:37 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie tweeted that the Habs are not interested ... Shipachyov hasn't shown me that he's a difference-maker in the NHL ... pass ... Cheers. I knew I'd seen someone post something to twitter, but couldn't remember who. Was sifting through Lebrun's tweets thinking it was him. I put this thread here because I think it an interesting story more than someone Montreal should acquire. I don't know if he could be a difference maker. I don't think he is a savior though. That will have to come from within the room and/or changes elsewhere. I think I first saw it in a retweet from Engles, but I'd have to verify that later ... can't get Twitter on my work account ... maybe yourself or one of our brethren can post it if they find it ... scratching my head over this start, man ... I wasn't sure if they were going to make the playoffs or not, but I didn't think they'd be this bad out of the gate ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Oct 26, 2017 7:22:38 GMT -5
I knew I'd seen someone post something to twitter, but couldn't remember who. Was sifting through Lebrun's tweets thinking it was him. I put this thread here because I think it an interesting story more than someone Montreal should acquire. I don't know if he could be a difference maker. I don't think he is a savior though. That will have to come from within the room and/or changes elsewhere. I think I first saw it in a retweet from Engles, but I'd have to verify that later ... can't get Twitter on my work account ... maybe yourself or one of our brethren can post it if they find it ... scratching my head over this start, man ... I wasn't sure if they were going to make the playoffs or not, but I didn't think they'd be this bad out of the gate ... Cheers. I can't find it at the moment but it was definitely a McKenzie tweet/mention. Might have even heard it in passing on Tim and Sid last night while channel flipping. No one thought they'd be here. How many teams have all 12 forwards basically start the year in a drought? Never. Just doesn't happen. Even the last two years, when some of our star players got off to slow starts the 3rd and 4th line guys picked up the slack. Mitchell was good for 75% of his goals before Xmas. Flynn chipped in. Byron, now a go-to guy. Those bottom six guys were integral to the quick starts. |
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Post by PTH on Oct 26, 2017 7:25:18 GMT -5
Sounds like Habs are not interested. Why would we be ? He's a center who'd probably only cost cap room... |
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Post by Tankdriver on Oct 26, 2017 7:26:22 GMT -5
Elliot Friedman posted it first and Bob Mackenzie re-tweeted it. If it was only 1 year I would think about it, because I think Montreal is saving the cap space for a Tavares offer next year. Maybe if you can get Vegas to take salary back I'd offer up Mitchell and a mid level prosepect. Lets face it, we don't have much in the pipeline.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 26, 2017 7:34:06 GMT -5
Sounds like Habs are not interested. Why would we be ? He's a center who'd probably only cost cap room... Do you think he'd actually be able to help out, PTH ... I really don't know one way or the other ... I'm trying to understand the media hype around this guy and I just don't see it ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Oct 26, 2017 7:46:13 GMT -5
Do you think he'd actually be able to help out, PTH ... I really don't know one way or the other ... I'm trying to understand the media hype around this guy and I just don't see it ... Cheers. I won't speak for pth, but Vadim's been consistently top 3 (if not the best) player in the KHL for the last half dozen years. He can score and create for others. He's a good skater. I think tankdriver is on the right track. I think it's the second year at this point. It may, or may not, have something to do with targeting Tavares. |
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Post by folatre on Oct 26, 2017 9:08:11 GMT -5
Habs need centres and high end offensive quality.
Saving the cap space seems like a nice concept, but I feel like real disappointment awaits. Tavares is not going to sign with a fringe playoff team unless he decides to sign with the fringe playoff team that he is captaining.
The Montreal Canadiens organisation is probably not held in very high esteem by players around the league. What happened to Markov does not say shrewd or classy. What happens every season in the post-season pressers with Bergevin naming names and saying it is on the players does not say good leadership.
Bergevin will spend the money next summer on some Alzner type (you can never have too many of those guys for a mere $23 million) and maybe break the bank for a player like Kyle Turris. Bergevin seems to love those BC guys.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 26, 2017 12:03:29 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think the Alzner signing, of all the moves that Berg made this summer, may end up being the worst. I'm interested in seeing how Petry's game goes the next few games, and how Benn's game goes. That's because Alzner is now paired with Benn and Petry with Davidson etc. If Petry's game suddenly picks up and Benn's slides it would be confirmation that their partner is failing in some regard, causing them to adjust.
I can't help thinking that a guy who's team didn't play him in critical games in the playoffs (using journeymen or AHL call-ups instead) just isn't a capable enough defenseman. There have been questions about his early season work, despite his reasonable point totals. That play described by Eric Engels, where Jordie Benn pinched and got caught, with Alzner positioned between the faceoff circles rather than backing him up made me wonder big time. We'll see I guess.
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Post by Skilly on Oct 26, 2017 14:36:40 GMT -5
So we are not interested in an offensive center that we were interested in only 3 short months ago? I could understand Bergevin walking away back then, when I thought Radulov was still the fish to catch; I still think we could have got both if we gave up picking up defensemen like a puck bunny in a bar. But I digress.
We have 9 million in cap space. Saving it for Tavares makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. Zero, zilch. Not because we don't have a chance at Tavares, but because the 4.5 million spent on Shipachyov will have no impact on our cap space. Tomas Plekanec will come off the books and we will have 11 million in cap space even with Shipachyov
Of all the players Bergevin took a chance on, this is the player he draws the line in the sand on??? You really do have to question is ability to recognize what the team is lacking.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 26, 2017 14:59:50 GMT -5
Yeah, why address two glaring needs (centre and scoring) when you can invite a bunch of washed up defenders that are not in the NHL right now for a reason. Oh, and to Stu Cowan's great quote from earlier this month, Bergevin is building a group of defensemen to compete for the Stanley Cup in 2003. Yup, wrong type of players being targeted again.
And we make a big splash about getting this 26 year old Czech defender who is mobile and can contribute offensively, who was first team KHL all star, and has played in the last two World Championship teams for his country. So they send him down to the AHL to get used to the NA game because he can clear waivers and they keep Streit and Morrow up in Montreal who would have had to clear waivers. Guess what, nobody would have claimed them based on what they did in the pre-season or with their previous team. Add insult to injury, braniac Sly then keeps Jerabek rotating in and out of the lineup due to the AHL vet rule (they have one extra guy that has to sit every night if everyone is healthy) to ensure that Eric Gelinas on an AHL contract gets his share of games. All while Montreal's defensive woes are well documented even by others not following the team. Why not see if Jerabek is ready? Why not play the heck out of him in the AHL to rush him up to Montreal? Can you honestly think he would be worse than some of the current performances? What the heck is the risk? Give him a shot and get Morrow the heck down in Laval where it looks like he really belongs. If he sucks, send him back down or get your coaches to work with him more.
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Post by PTH on Oct 26, 2017 17:05:17 GMT -5
Why would we be ? He's a center who'd probably only cost cap room... Do you think he'd actually be able to help out, PTH ... I really don't know one way or the other ... I'm trying to understand the media hype around this guy and I just don't see it ... Cheers. I'm just looking at the fact that he was highly sought out and that we have zero center depth. We have the cap room for this season (!), and for next year there'd surely be a way to fit him in. Even if we got Tavares over the summer, cap management for a 3-4 million #2 center is required... and he's not much above that. I tried to figure out what it means to have 8M in cap room, with Plek leaving (potentially), but Price's new contract kicking in, etc., etc, but basically, normal cap management has to account for a 3-4M #2 center. I once tried to spreadsheet-out the Habs cap for a few seasons, and you quickly have to go on a few assumptions, such as room for decent #2 center, #1 and #2D, etc. I think I was looking at adding Stamkos, and that was surprisingly possible though it meant zero flexibility for a while. |
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Post by PTH on Oct 26, 2017 17:11:57 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think the Alzner signing, of all the moves that Berg made this summer, may end up being the worst. I'm interested in seeing how Petry's game goes the next few games, and how Benn's game goes. That's because Alzner is now paired with Benn and Petry with Davidson etc. If Petry's game suddenly picks up and Benn's slides it would be confirmation that their partner is failing in some regard, causing them to adjust. I can't help thinking that a guy who's team didn't play him in critical games in the playoffs (using journeymen or AHL call-ups instead) just isn't a capable enough defenseman. There have been questions about his early season work, despite his reasonable point totals. That play described by Eric Engels, where Jordie Benn pinched and got caught, with Alzner positioned between the faceoff circles rather than backing him up made me wonder big time. We'll see I guess. I see where you're coming from, but I think the Price contract will be a massive problem... in 3-4 years we'll have to have a better backup since he'll be playing 25-30 games a season, but if we develop a new guy (lindgren, McNiven, whoever), we won't be able to keep them when they are ready for that next step, because Price's contract will be unmovable. I've said it before and I'll say it again: both the team and Price will regret his contract before it's more than half-way through. (ie, end of summer 2022). That said, I'm not sold on Alzner either. I don't hate him, he's efficient enough, but we're not getting much bang for buck. I'd rather be giving icetime to Jerabek (ie, not have signed Alzner at all), but that's with a longer-term plan in mind. Berg was planning on the playoffs over the summer, not thinking massive re-build/re-tool like many of us are at. |
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Post by PTH on Oct 26, 2017 17:13:04 GMT -5
VGK have given Vadim and his agent the permission to contact teams around the league to see if they'd be interested. GMGM will then attempt to work out a return. When it's the agent making the deal, it usually means the team has given up and isn't expecting much in return. It's more a question of who will take him than a question of LV getting maximum assets in return. |
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Post by franko on Oct 26, 2017 17:32:49 GMT -5
When it's the agent making the deal, it usually means the team has given up and isn't expecting much in return. It's more a question of who will take him than a question of LV getting maximum assets in return. it's Vadim Shipimout? |
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Post by blny on Oct 27, 2017 6:25:05 GMT -5
So we are not interested in an offensive center that we were interested in only 3 short months ago? I could understand Bergevin walking away back then, when I thought Radulov was still the fish to catch; I still think we could have got both if we gave up picking up defensemen like a puck bunny in a bar. But I digress. We have 9 million in cap space. Saving it for Tavares makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. Zero, zilch. Not because we don't have a chance at Tavares, but because the 4.5 million spent on Shipachyov will have no impact on our cap space. Tomas Plekanec will come off the books and we will have 11 million in cap space even with Shipachyov Of all the players Bergevin took a chance on, this is the player he draws the line in the sand on??? You really do have to question is ability to recognize what the team is lacking. Given the context, MB sounds like a petulant child. "You didn't want us in the Summer. Forget you. We're not interested now." And, isn't Peter Svoboda working for Radulov/Markov? |
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Post by blny on Oct 27, 2017 6:27:20 GMT -5
When it's the agent making the deal, it usually means the team has given up and isn't expecting much in return. It's more a question of who will take him than a question of LV getting maximum assets in return. That's one way to look at it. Another could be that GMGM isn't interested in trading him, wants the flexibility his contract provides and is about to go out of his way to trade it. So, he focuses his energies on other things and lets the agent find an interested group of teams from which GMGM can then decide if he wants to work something out. |
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Post by GNick99 on Oct 28, 2017 5:54:21 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie tweeted that the Habs are not interested ... another Jack Todd column appeared on my Twitter feed reminding everyone what happened to the organization the last time an emotional, wholesale change was made ... Jacques Demers and Serge Savard were removed from their jobs and were replaced by Rejean Houle, Mario Tremblay and Ivan Cournoyer ... it turned into an emotional circus under Demers, so I thought his dismissal was warranted, but I never understood the firing of Savard ... he knew the league, the players and the business much better than most of his peers ... read somewhere that he wanted to trade Patrick Roy because he felt Roy was bigger than the team ... maybe that was it ... dunno, but one can argue that we never recovered from that emotional decision ... Shipachyov hasn't shown me that he's a difference-maker in the NHL ... pass ... Cheers. Savard was wrongly fired. Led to downfall of Canadiens for next 10 years |
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Post by Anardil1 on Oct 28, 2017 9:29:14 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie tweeted that the Habs are not interested ... another Jack Todd column appeared on my Twitter feed reminding everyone what happened to the organization the last time an emotional, wholesale change was made ... Jacques Demers and Serge Savard were removed from their jobs and were replaced by Rejean Houle, Mario Tremblay and Ivan Cournoyer ... it turned into an emotional circus under Demers, so I thought his dismissal was warranted, but I never understood the firing of Savard ... he knew the league, the players and the business much better than most of his peers ... read somewhere that he wanted to trade Patrick Roy because he felt Roy was bigger than the team ... maybe that was it ... dunno, but one can argue that we never recovered from that emotional decision ... Shipachyov hasn't shown me that he's a difference-maker in the NHL ... pass ... Cheers. Savard was wrongly fired. Led to downfall of Canadiens for next 10 years Savard may have been fired unjustly, however, I feel that the descent to mediocrity started under his watch. One just needs to look at his 1st round picks near the end of his time with the club. The drafting and development problem started with him. The infamous 'Boeuf de l'ouest' period was his doing. It all began IMHO when Savard switched his focus to developing his real estate portfolio, than developing his franchise. Yes, Houle was a disaster, but he only accelerated the fall from grace that began under Savard. |
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Post by PTH on Oct 28, 2017 14:08:26 GMT -5
Savard was wrongly fired. Led to downfall of Canadiens for next 10 years Savard may have been fired unjustly, however, I feel that the descent to mediocrity started under his watch. One just needs to look at his 1st round picks near the end of his time with the club. The drafting and development problem started with him. The infamous 'Boeuf de l'ouest' period was his doing. It all began IMHO when Savard switched his focus to developing his real estate portfolio, than developing his franchise. Yes, Houle was a disaster, but he only accelerated the fall from grace that began under Savard. Savard said he was a year or two away from retiring, I think it was Boudrias (first name forgotten) who would likely have taken over. He was GM in an era where the Habs had money and could use it, but also an era without a cap and where the playoffs were for 16 of 21 teams, so just making them was kind of meaningless. It's hard to compare. While Savard's later years weren't great, I have to think a more orderly transition to a qualified candidate (an assistant GM) would've been a better scenario than the awful Houle years. |
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Post by PTH on Oct 28, 2017 14:28:01 GMT -5
When it's the agent making the deal, it usually means the team has given up and isn't expecting much in return. It's more a question of who will take him than a question of LV getting maximum assets in return. That's one way to look at it. Another could be that GMGM isn't interested in trading him, wants the flexibility his contract provides and is about to go out of his way to trade it. So, he focuses his energies on other things and lets the agent find an interested group of teams from which GMGM can then decide if he wants to work something out. GMGM either doesn't care about the return or could make it so generic the agent could ask around and figure things out (ie, he wants 2 second round picks). But every time an agent got permission to find a taker, it's because the GM doesn't have many (or even any) offers on the table and just wants to move a contract. At this point thoguh, I don't want Shipachyov, all he could do is make us tank less. I'd only want him as an interim measure so we don't suck too much after moving out some bigger fish. |
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Post by Anardil1 on Oct 28, 2017 21:54:45 GMT -5
Savard may have been fired unjustly, however, I feel that the descent to mediocrity started under his watch. One just needs to look at his 1st round picks near the end of his time with the club. The drafting and development problem started with him. The infamous 'Boeuf de l'ouest' period was his doing. It all began IMHO when Savard switched his focus to developing his real estate portfolio, than developing his franchise. Yes, Houle was a disaster, but he only accelerated the fall from grace that began under Savard. Savard said he was a year or two away from retiring, I think it was Boudrias (first name forgotten) who would likely have taken over. He was GM in an era where the Habs had money and could use it, but also an era without a cap and where the playoffs were for 16 of 21 teams, so just making them was kind of meaningless. It's hard to compare. While Savard's later years weren't great, I have to think a more orderly transition to a qualified candidate (an assistant GM) would've been a better scenario than the awful Houle years. My point was to say that Houle gets all the blame for the franchise's slide to medriocrity. Most people ignore the large part that Savard played in starting the slow slide. Obviously, it would have been better to do a proper search for Savard's replacement, instead of the knee jerk reactionary firing and hiring. That's all on Ronald Corey. And about Corey, that's a whole other thread topic... |
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Post by Anardil1 on Oct 28, 2017 21:59:59 GMT -5
That's one way to look at it. Another could be that GMGM isn't interested in trading him, wants the flexibility his contract provides and is about to go out of his way to trade it. So, he focuses his energies on other things and lets the agent find an interested group of teams from which GMGM can then decide if he wants to work something out. GMGM either doesn't care about the return or could make it so generic the agent could ask around and figure things out (ie, he wants 2 second round picks). But every time an agent got permission to find a taker, it's because the GM doesn't have many (or even any) offers on the table and just wants to move a contract. At this point thoguh, I don't want Shipachyov, all he could do is make us tank less. I'd only want him as an interim measure so we don't suck too much after moving out some bigger fish. Honestly, this is one where I applaud Bergevin. I know that Vegas is off to a great start, but for me Shipachyov not cracking an expansion team's roster is a huge red flag. |
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Post by GNick99 on Oct 29, 2017 7:38:02 GMT -5
Savard was wrongly fired. Led to downfall of Canadiens for next 10 years Savard may have been fired unjustly, however, I feel that the descent to mediocrity started under his watch. One just needs to look at his 1st round picks near the end of his time with the club. The drafting and development problem started with him. The infamous 'Boeuf de l'ouest' period was his doing. It all began IMHO when Savard switched his focus to developing his real estate portfolio, than developing his franchise. Yes, Houle was a disaster, but he only accelerated the fall from grace that began under Savard. Savard wasn't best eye for talent. His success was achieved by picking up tidbits from Bowman, Blake, Pollock over the years. Good goalie, tight system, strong down the middle,etc.. He knew how to structure a team. |
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Post by madhabber on Oct 29, 2017 8:36:15 GMT -5
Savard's first rounders were pretty horrible. Le boeuf de l'ouest is right. Stevenson, Bilodeau, Vallis, Wilkie, Ryan, Right up until Koivu. But his second rounders were excellent and he always pick up an extra one here and there.
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