Subban

[Polarice]

There are some twitter activity that Subban could be on the move this summer. Preds are looking to clear some cap space to sign some free agents.

Are we interested? I wonder what the cost would be?

[franko]

May 9, 2019 16:00:15 GMT -5 Polarice said:

There are some twitter activity that Subban could be on the move this summer. Preds are looking to clear some cap space to sign some free agents.

Are we interested? I wonder what the cost would be?

Bergy's head.

[Dschens]

May 9, 2019 16:20:58 GMT -5 franko said:

May 9, 2019 16:00:15 GMT -5 Polarice said:

There are some twitter activity that Subban could be on the move this summer. Preds are looking to clear some cap space to sign some free agents.

Are we interested? I wonder what the cost would be?

Bergy's head.

ROTFL. You've made my day.

[folatre]

Montreal does not need a right-handed top four d-man and Bergevin has a very poor relationship with Subban, so it seems inconceivable the Habs would be getting involved if he is available.

If Poile thinks perhaps it was the confluence of some injuries and some guys just having down years, then he may just let this same group take one more run at it. Obviously, the following year Josi's new contract will kick in so at that point things seem set to change.

Honestly I believe the guy that Poile would most like to unload is Turris but there is still $30 million to be paid on that deal and no one would touch it unless Nashville retained half. On a less dire note because he actually had a very solid regular season, for me Ellis looked awful in the playoffs and his new $50 million dollar deal starts on July 1.

But if the Predators want to see what Subban could fetch, it would still be high in my estimation, probably a first rounder, a solid nondescript piece on some sort, and a kid in the top three from most organizations' prospect pool. Who would be interested? Plenty of organizations trying to win would want him, though the cap space is prohibitive in places like Toronto or Vegas. If Poile decides to move him, I could see the Flyers, the Wild, the Stars, or one the clubs in the New York metropolitan area being very interested.

[Willie Dog]

May 9, 2019 16:47:14 GMT -5 folatre said:

Montreal does not need a right-handed top four d-man and Bergevin has a very poor relationship with Subban, so it seems inconceivable the Habs would be getting involved if he is available.

If Poile thinks perhaps it was the confluence of some injuries and some guys just having down years, then he may just let this same group take one more run at it. Obviously, the following year Josi's new contract will kick in so at that point things seem set to change.

Honestly I believe the guy that Poile would most like to unload is Turris but there is still $30 million to be paid on that deal and no one would touch it unless Nashville retained half. On a less dire note because he actually had a very solid regular season, for me Ellis looked awful in the playoffs and his new $50 million dollar deal starts on July 1.

But if the Predators want to see what Subban could fetch, it would still be high in my estimation, probably a first rounder, a solid nondescript piece on some sort, and a kid in the top three from most organizations' prospect pool. Who would be interested? Plenty of organizations trying to win would want him, though the cap space is prohibitive in places like Toronto or Vegas. If Poile decides to move him, I could see the Flyers, the Wild, the Stars, or one the clubs in the New York metropolitan area being very interested.

Edmonton would take him, salary would have to be taken back/retained. The Oilers have to do something to show McDavid they're serious, he is one unhappy dude. The funny thing is Lucic is the only one of their forwards that has an NMC... Chiarelli is a moron

[folatre]

Yeah, Chiarelli made some really dumb decisions (we should all give thanks to God that Chiarelli saved Bergevin from his own poor judgment with respect to Lucic).

Regarding Edmonton, version 2019-20, for sure, they need upgrades in multiple areas. But their guys on bad contracts have basically negative value so it seems hard to envision how the Oilers could make room for Subban even if they were hypothetically willing to meet Poile's asking price. On paper, the Oilers blueline, at least when healthy, does not look that bad in my estimation. But between the shaky play in net and the inability to defend as five man units, the next coach there will not have it easy.

[BadCompany]

Subban for Marner would make sense on a whole lot of levels.

[Polarice]

May 10, 2019 8:45:32 GMT -5 BadCompany said:

Subban for Marner would make sense on a whole lot of levels.

Hmmmm....that would really suck having Subban on the Leafs.

[CentreHice]

May 10, 2019 10:18:36 GMT -5 Polarice said:

May 10, 2019 8:45:32 GMT -5 BadCompany said:

Subban for Marner would make sense on a whole lot of levels.

Hmmmm....that would really suck having Subban on the Leafs.

From what I've seen, Marner is Toronto's MVP of offensive creation.

They'd be foolish to let him go.

[seventeen]

I could see a Nylander plus trade for Subban. Nylander and Johnsson? Doesn't resolve much in the way of CAP issues for each team, but both come out with fewer weak spots.

[The Habitual Fan]

I think Marner is a way more valuable piece than Subban. I stick with my opinion that Subban is not a great defenseman and very overrated especially by Montreal fans. Not that Subban is terrible and I think he could still be worth either a mid 1st round pick or a good prospect plus a role player but I don't see many teams wanting to sell the farm to get him. I wouldn't give up a top 5 pick for him for sure.
I also think if Subban went to Leafs it would help them implode. Subban is ego driven and wants to hang on to the puck too long. There are too many guys on the Leafs that can carry the puck so while Subban has it he is nullifying them. I remember too many nights of watching him carry the puck to the blue line while the Montreal forwards had to hold up at the blue line so not to go off side and it would kill the rush. Toroto needs a better defense that can pass quickly than they do a puck carrier.

[frozone]

Imo, Subban WAS a Norris level defenseman, but injuries and lack of speed are catching up to him. And although he's a great skater, he's not very fast unless he's got the space to use his cross overs to get going.

Imo, Poile is looking to trade Subban right before the dip, which is great timing if not even a tad late. He did not have a great season and he turns 30 in just a few days... Pains me to say it, but I would not trade for Subban at this stage of his career unless significant salary is held back. Bold prediction: PK will have only two good full seasons left in him before retirement.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

May 10, 2019 15:30:09 GMT -5 frozone said:

Imo, Subban WAS a Norris level defenseman, but injuries and lack of speed are catching up to him. And although he's a great skater, he's not very fast unless he's got the space to use his cross overs to get going.

Imo, Poile is looking to trade Subban right before the dip, which is great timing if not even a tad late. He did not have a great season and he turns 30 in just a few days... Pains me to say it, but I would not trade for Subban at this stage of his career unless significant salary is held back. Bold prediction: PK will have only two good full seasons left in him before retirement.

That's about the only way I'd entertain bringing PK Subban back, but I can't see Marc Bergevin bringing him in ... the trade had nothing to do with hockey (Bergevin) and it was personal ... besides, that would give Mtl three decent RD in Shea Weber, Jeff Petry, and Subban ... if by some brain fart Bergevin does bring in Subban I suspect he won't be paying him to play on the 3rd pairing ... anyway, I don't see Subban in Mtl, not while Bergevin is there ... however, Carolina has $16,292,322 of cap space and their run reminds me of the same run Leicester City F.C. went on a few years back, but I don't think they'll fade away the way LC did ... mind you, they already have Dougie Hamilton, Justin Faulk and Brett Pesce, all of who seem to be working out just fine on the right side ... that said, I initially thought he'd end up on Broadway or in Los Angeles, but both teams would have to do some major restructuring if they wanted to bring him in ... mind you, his girlfriend,Lindsey Vonn, lives in Vail Colorado and the Avs have $10,981,023 in cap space left ... they're set on the right side Erik Johnson, Tyson Barrie, and Kyle Makar ... maybe if they move Johnson (31 yrs old) in the deal ... not sure they'd part with Barrie (27) or Makar (20) ... all that said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him dealt, just not to Mtl ...

Cheers.

[folatre]

Not to make this about Weber because he has generally been very good for Montreal when healthy, but if selling high or moving on before the decline constitutes good asset management then Bergevin should start thinking about what he is going to do the Captain. And when I say this I do not necessarily mean this summer or next spring or anything like that. What I mean is that I think it would be very imprudent to have both Weber and Petry playing for the Canadiens in October 2021.

It is premature to say how the trade will be judged 8-10 years from now when both players will be retired. Again, both players have been very good after changing places. But roster architecture impacts winning and winning is the name of the game. For me Poile and Subban are ahead at the moment because the Predators have won 24 playoff games since the trade; whereas Bergevin and Weber are where they are at the moment and 2 playoff games won says something if not about Weber then surely about Bergevin’s performance as the GM.

[blny]

No way he comes back, and I don't see a Marner for Subban swap. The age difference and recurring back issues for PK mean they won't get that kind of return.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

I don't think Shea Weber is going anywhere anytime soon ... we can micro-analyze it all we want, but the bottom line is that Weber is Marc Bergevin's man and PK Subban isn't (Bergevin already admitted that it wasn't a hockey trade) ... that should be the main factor to consider in any Subban-to-Montreal rumour ...

Cheers.

[blny]

May 10, 2019 17:42:25 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

I don't think Shea Weber is going anywhere anytime soon ... we can micro-analyze it all we want, but the bottom line is that Weber is Marc Bergevin's man and PK Subban isn't (Bergevin already admitted that it wasn't a hockey trade) ... that should be the main factor to consider in any Subban-to-Montreal rumour ...

Cheers.

I think there's only 2 ways he leaves.

• LTIRetirement
• trade back to Nashville

[folatre]

Dis, for sure, in the short-term (1-2 seasons) Weber is not going anywhere. But change is constant and even though all of us enjoyed this season and the never say die attitude the boys showed, in the medium-term (3-4 years out) guys who are likeable good hockey players are not going to continue being Montreal Canadiens for the remainder of their careers.

The spring and summer of 2021 will be interesting to say the least. Even if somehow Marc Bergevin is still hanging onto his job and planning for what would be year 10 of his tenure, not all of the guys with contracts expiring can or should be extended. For me on the blue line it is Petry or Weber, not both. And up front I think it is inconceivable that the organization could logically from a roster and cap architecture standpoint re-sign Danault, Gallagher, and Tatar.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Could very well be, floatre ... I certainly wasn't implying that Shea Weber will finish out his days as a Hab, only that he's Bergevin's man; that's it, that's all ... the odds for almost any player starting and finishing with the same team aren't all that good ... having said that, I can see Weber eventually leaving and having a say as to where he goes ... if down the road, the Habs go into another retool/rebuild/what have you, I can see Weber either back in Nashville to end his career or ending up with a contender that's looking for RHD going into the home stretch ... either way, I suspect Weber will have a say in it and I think that would be later in his career ... as for having both him and Jeff Petry, I'd stick with the duo-threat on the blue line, at least for the time being ... the Weber/Petry RHD tandem (not pairing) was just as effective as the Roman Josi/PK Subban RHD tandem in Nashville, IMHO ... as for Marc Bergevin, I think he'll be tossed if he misses the playoffs again, this upcoming season, but so long as the team continues to improve I don't think he's going anywhere ...

Cheers.

[seventeen]

May 11, 2019 11:04:03 GMT -5 blny said:

May 10, 2019 17:42:25 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

I don't think Shea Weber is going anywhere anytime soon ... we can micro-analyze it all we want, but the bottom line is that Weber is Marc Bergevin's man and PK Subban isn't (Bergevin already admitted that it wasn't a hockey trade) ... that should be the main factor to consider in any Subban-to-Montreal rumour ...

Cheers.

I think there's only 2 ways he leaves.

• LTIRetirement
• trade back to Nashville

Or holding up a 3rd pairing position with us.

[seventeen]

May 11, 2019 11:07:56 GMT -5 folatre said:

Dis, for sure, in the short-term (1-2 seasons) Weber is not going anywhere. But change is constant and even though all of us enjoyed this season and the never say die attitude the boys showed, in the medium-term (3-4 years out) guys who are likeable good hockey players are not going to continue being Montreal Canadiens for the remainder of their careers.

The spring and summer of 2021 will be interesting to say the least. Even if somehow Marc Bergevin is still hanging onto his job and planning for what would be year 10 of his tenure, not all of the guys with contracts expiring can or should be extended. For me on the blue line it is Petry or Weber, not both. And up front I think it is inconceivable that the organization could logically from a roster and cap architecture standpoint re-sign Danault, Gallagher, and Tatar.

The most obvious comparison people are giving for Weber is Chara. Chara has indeed performed into his late 30's and Weber is nowhere near that age. Chara is a true freak of nature, though and I'm not sure Weber is in that class of mesomorph. Also, if you've been watching the Bruins in the playoffs, you will have seen that Chara isn't very good any more. He's getting knocked to the ice (yes) by average sized players. I've never advocated trying to hit Chara. It's senseless. I'd go after his stick because he's not the best puck handler. Pleks used to do a good job of that. Chara has been turning it over a lot in the playoffs. I'm surprised he's still on the top pairing, but what are you going to do? He's the captain. And McAvoy is there to bail him out.

I agree, folatre. I'd be moving Weber by this coming year's trade deadline. Do it sooner rather than later when the warts really show.

Of course, this is just a hypothetical exercise because as long as Berg is the GM, Weber's going nowwhere. We will, however, have to suffer the consequences, because he is certainly degrading. One can argue that Subban has also slowed down relative to the league's speed and I'd agree. The injuries have taken a toll. PK, however is still an elite passer and contributes in that way. Weber isn't. In any case, it's never going to happen. The team will be hurt because of it. I can see (in a year's time) Petry, Juulsen and Brook (or Fleury) being a better group at right D than any combination including Weber.

[blny]

May 11, 2019 14:02:15 GMT -5 seventeen said:

May 11, 2019 11:04:03 GMT -5 blny said:

I think there's only 2 ways he leaves.

• LTIRetirement
• trade back to Nashville

Or holding up a 3rd pairing position with us.

but then he'd still be here, wouldn't he?

[jkr]

The reason Subban would not end up in Toronto has more to do with Babcock than anything else. IMO, Babcock didn't want him on the Olympic team & bowed to pressure to select him. Once he had him, he got into one game & Babcock preferred someone like Hamhuis. If you asked Babcock today, he would probably still take Weber over Subban even though Subban is better than anyone on the Leaf blueline with the exception of Reilly.

[Cranky]

I'm open to PK coming back and the Bergevins head is too small a price to pay. I'd include Mol$ons tiny jewels.....

The outside tiny chance of Webber to TO and PK to us is very, very inviting. It won't be Marner, but for sure Nylender and more pieces would move around. A three way.....that undoes the first stupidity is welcomed....but unlikely.

[seventeen]

For PK to come back it would take the sale of the Canadiens first.

[The Habitual Fan]

Jun 9, 2019 16:09:27 GMT -5 seventeen said:

For PK to come back it would take the sale of the Canadiens first.

Karlsson is a better defensman than Subban with a simiar cap hit plus you dont have to give up any picks or players to sign him. That makes it an easy choice but besides that the Hab fans have started to move on from 'The Trade" so it would be bad PR to enter it again.

[franko]

Renewing chatter about Edmonton.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Not sure I'd entertain bringing PK Subban back into MTL ... I still like the player and I still like the humanitarian, but the team is nurturing an entirely new dynamic with an entirely different core ... my question is, how would bringing Subban back affect that dynamic ... would he fit right in, or (feeling he has to earn his $9 mil/season) would he revert back to his superstar-in-rent-a-car days ... Subban for Mitch Marner? ... well, both teams would get what they're looking for ... TOR would get a hometown boy with an excellent transition game who also has a great first pass and a bullet from the point ... NAS would get one of the league's younger more dynamic offensive talents in Marner ... there'd probably be more to the deal, but don't like the idea of Subban in TOR, actually ...

Cheers.

[Cranky]

Jun 9, 2019 17:37:36 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

Not sure I'd entertain bringing PK Subban back into MTL ... I still like the player and I still like the humanitarian, but the team is nurturing an entirely new dynamic with an entirely different core ... my question is, how would bringing Subban back affect that dynamic ... would he fit right in, or (feeling he has to earn his $9 mil/season) would he revert back to his superstar-in-rent-a-car days ... Subban for Mitch Marner? ... well, both teams would get what they're looking for ... TOR would get a hometown boy with an excellent transition game who also has a great first pass and a bullet from the point ... NAS would get one of the league's younger more dynamic offensive talents in Marner ... there'd probably be more to the deal, but don't like the idea of Subban in TOR, actually ...

Cheers.

Karlsson or PK is handing the cup to the Laffs. Weber to a degree too...but we get something back.

Assuming Karlsson signs here, Weber becomes expendable and the return makes us deep playoff material. Possibly contenders in a few years. As little love as Kadri gets here, he and Kapanen would add 50 goals.

Signing a healthy Karlsson, repeat the word "healthy", it changes EVERYTHING.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Jun 9, 2019 16:55:23 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

Jun 9, 2019 16:09:27 GMT -5 seventeen said:

For PK to come back it would take the sale of the Canadiens first.

Karlsson is a better defensman than Subban with a simiar cap hit plus you dont have to give up any picks or players to sign him. That makes it an easy choice but besides that the Hab fans have started to move on from 'The Trade" so it would be bad PR to enter it again.

I don't know, man ... Erik Karlsson is an offensive dynamo, but I'd give the nod to PK Subban if we're talking about all around d-men ... Karlsson had Marc Methot covering his butt for most of his time in Ottawa while Subban often played with Andrei Markov ...

Cheers.