The one that got away...

[Yeti]

It's not that I don't like Carey Price but I was very surprised to see the Habs pick a goalie with the no 5 selection... I had my eyes on Kopitar a 6'4 Centre (225 pounds)...

Well, Kopitar signed as a 19 years old with LA, and has 2 goals and 3 assists in 2 games...

[Toronthab]

yeti said:

It's not that I don't like Carey Price but I was very surprised to see the Habs pick a goalie with the no 5 selection... I had my eyes on Kopitar a 6'4 Centre (225 pounds)...

Well, Kopitar signed as a 19 years old with LA, and has 2 goals and 3 assists in 2 games...

We know they knew who was available. Price was excellent in preseason by all accounts, and a cream of the crop goalie for several years is irreplacable and very hard to get from somebody else. It's a reasonable thing to make a sacrifice for, and there certainly was a sacrifice made. Sacrifices hurt.

Add waiting to this and it's doubley hard to bear. We suffer.

Patience is rooted in the Latin word "patior" - to suffer.

To be patient is to be willing to suffer. We do it for many, many things, but it takes a lot of practice and in this case trust.

[The Habsome One]

It's only 2 games, so people shouldn't get excited about the points. (Except me, as I have had him in my HabsRus fantasy team starting line-up since day one).

What is exciting is how he actuallly plays the game. He is only 19 and is consistently already the best player on the ice for LA, generating offense, drawing penalties every game, playing on the PK and PP. In the first two games he's logged the most ice time out of all LA forwards!

We could have had this guy!!

[Anardil1]

Christ, are we going to have to go through this every time some rookie who was selected after player X was selected after the Habs pick? He was picked 12th overall. 6 other teams passed on him. He had major questions concerning his foot speed and also coming from the renowned hockey factory of Slovenia. If the Habs had the 10th pick or so, or had traded down and not chosen Kopitar, THEN the would be somewhat justified.

[The Habsome One]

anardil1 said:

Christ, are we going to have to go through this every time some rookie who was selected after player X was selected after the Habs pick? He was picked 12th overall. 6 other teams passed on him. He had major questions concerning his foot speed and also coming from the renowned hockey factory of Slovenia. If the Habs had the 10th pick or so, or had traded down and not chosen Kopitar, THEN the would be somewhat justified.

He was picked 11th overall. We need a player like Kopitar NOW and for the future. The so called "major" questions were idiotic. He has incredible hockey vision. He had good speed for a big guy back then, and he has very good speed and excellent skating now. Most scouts had him rated a top 5 pick. Price wasn't even a consensus top 10.

[The Habsome One]

Kopitar's first goal:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=x81uXfQCWZA

[sergejean]

thehabsomeone said:

Kopitar's first goal:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=x81uXfQCWZA

Looks to me like Giguère was weak on that one... he just didn't move at all... Anyway, perhaps Kopitar is the real deal and we should have picked him but Price looked impressive during training camp and may turn out to be an elite goaltender. And while we're at it, nobody points out that we were able to pick Chris Higgins what? 13?14?.. So I'm sure a couple teams whish they had pick him...

[franko]

thehabsomeone said:

What is exciting is how he actuallly plays the game. He is only 19 and is consistently already the best player on the ice for LA, generating offense, drawing penalties every game, playing on the PK and PP. In the first two games he's logged the most ice time out of all LA forwards!

We could have had this guy!!

We coulda . . . but this is Montreal, not LA, which means that he would have languished in the A this year until he (with the typical Hab mindset) "matured". Then he would be brought up for his 4.38 per game on the fourth line.

[The Habsome One]

He made Pronger and Giguere look weak on that goal. No goalie stops that.

As for Higgins, he's my favourite player on the Habs. I love his speed and hussle, but Higgins is no franchise centreman.

[The Habsome One]

franko said:

thehabsomeone said:

What is exciting is how he actuallly plays the game. He is only 19 and is consistently already the best player on the ice for LA, generating offense, drawing penalties every game, playing on the PK and PP. In the first two games he's logged the most ice time out of all LA forwards!

We could have had this guy!!

We coulda . . . but this is Montreal, not LA, which means that he would have languished in the A this year until he (with the typical Hab mindset) "matured". Then he would be brought up for his 4.38 per game on the fourth line.

Not if he was truly something special. Kopitar is 19 but plays like a veteran, not a rookie. Kostitsyn (bust), Latendresse, Plekanec, and Perezhogin may become good NHLers, but not much more. Kopitar, on the other hand, has franchise centreman written all over him.

[chief6]

franko said:

We coulda . . . but this is Montreal, not LA, which means that he would have languished in the A this year until he (with the typical Hab mindset) "matured". Then he would be brought up for his 4.38 per game on the fourth line.

Who's languishing in the A, and who in Hamilton could replace a current roster player?

As for Anze Kopitar being the "one that got away," let's have a look at the 2001 draft when Tampa Bay (Alex Svitov), Florida (Stephen Weiss), Anaheim (Stanislav Chistov) and Minnesota (Mikko Koivu) all passed on Mike Komisarek.
How about 2002? Minnesota (P-M Bouchard), Florida (Petr Taticek), Calgary (Eric Nystrom) and Buffalo (Keith Ballard) all passed on Chris Higgins.

Teams have their draft boards, and they take the players they think will help their franchises most in the appropriate spot. To look back and second-guess the success of a draft three games into the next season is not only unfair to the team, it's about as wise as crowning Kyle Wellwood the scoring champ after the first Saturday of the year.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

yeti said:

It's not that I don't like Carey Price but I was very surprised to see the Habs pick a goalie with the no 5 selection... I had my eyes on Kopitar a 6'4 Centre (225 pounds)...

Well, Kopitar signed as a 19 years old with LA, and has 2 goals and 3 assists in 2 games...

I secretly hoped that Kopitar would still be available at #5 but expected him to be gone.
He was.
We didn't pick him.
Before that I coveted Hudler and Bernier.
We didn't get them.
Hey, Gainey.
Put me on your scouting staff.
Watch hocey and get paid for it too.
It doesn't get any better.

[Yeti]

Yes, other teams passed on Kopitar. But that's the whole of point of the new NHL, if you want to have a championship team, you need to bat above .500 at the draft table, you need one home run per year.

We did it with Komisarek and Higgins and that's why the Habs look so much better right now. With the new cba, picking a goalie that will take 5-6 years before starting as a no 2 goalie in the NHL is stupid...

[Skilly]

The Habs would never have picked Kopitar. The general consensus was the Habs were hoping that Brule, Poulliot or Bourdon would be available. Two of them were and we chose Price ..... which is why so many people were shocked and disappointed. I am more disappointed now that we didnt select Bourdon (imagine a defense next year of Bourdon, Komisarek, Yemelin, O'Byrne ... ), but Brule was the one that got away.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

skilly said:

The Habs would never have picked Kopitar. The general consensus was the Habs were hoping that Brule, Poulliot or Bourdon would be available. Two of them were and we chose Price ..... which is why so many people were shocked and disappointed. I am more disappointed now that we didnt select Bourdon (imagine a defense next year of Bourdon, Komisarek, Yemelin, O'Byrne ... ), but Brule was the one that got away.

I have to disagree with you. (here's a first)
Kopitar was projected as a possible "Great One". Size and talent and speed. His only knock was that he was from Switzerland and nobody great comes from there. He showed that he could play in Sweeden last year and this year he's showing it in the NHL. If we could take a chance for a great one with Epilipsy, why not a bigger faster more talented great one with a positive attitude, without the epilepsy from a small country.
Does it really matter where he was born?

[Bob]

habsfaninla said:

I have to disagree with you. (here's a first)
Kopitar was projected as a possible "Great One". Size and talent and speed. His only knock was that he was from Switzerland and nobody great comes from there.

He's from Slovenia not Switzerland

[insomnius]

He was born in the hockey hotbed of Slovenia actually.


And his birthplace only matters as far as access to good coaches in the developmental system and good competition as the player grows up - once that player is in a professional environment, birthplace means as much as yesterday's sweat...

[The Habsome One]

bob said:

habsfaninla said:

I have to disagree with you. (here's a first)
Kopitar was projected as a possible "Great One". Size and talent and speed. His only knock was that he was from Switzerland and nobody great comes from there.

He's from Slovenia not Switzerland

Hmm.. easy to have mistaken, me thinks.

[The Habsome One]

insomnius said:

He was born in the hockey hotbed of Slovenia actually.


And his birthplace only matters as far as access to good coaches in the developmental system and good competition as the player grows up - once that player is in a professional environment, birthplace means as much as yesterday's sweat...

Crawford has commented on loving the fact he's a coach's son. Apparently Kopitar's father is or was the coach of Slovenia's national team (a team that stayed in the same elite division with Canada for 3 years--getting relegated only this year).

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

bob said:

habsfaninla said:

I have to disagree with you. (here's a first)
Kopitar was projected as a possible "Great One". Size and talent and speed. His only knock was that he was from Switzerland and nobody great comes from there.

He's from Slovenia not Switzerland

As our fearless leader "W" would say, "One of them furrin countries in Europe, they're all the same."
My mistake, and I'm sure it means a lot to Slovenians. I apologize.
My point is that if he lacked the competition and still developed into a suprelative talent, there is that much more room for further improvement.

[Skilly]

habsfaninla said:

bob said:

He's from Slovenia not Switzerland

As our fearless leader "W" would say, "One of them furrin countries in Europe, they're all the same."
My mistake, and I'm sure it means a lot to Slovenians. I apologize.
My point is that if he lacked the competition and still developed into a suprelative talent, there is that much more room for further improvement.

I am not arguing whether Kopitar has talent or not, or where he is from having anything to do with the selection ... where did that come from?

My arguement is that when the Habs entered that draft their top four rated players were:

1. Poulliot - if you believe the experts
2. Price
3. Brule
4. Bourdon

The fact that three of these are french has nothing to do with it .... they were three extremely talented players and a surprise, lowly ranked goalie. If you believe the reports, Toronto was actively trying to trade up to the #6 spot, and it was widely believed it was to select "the goalie of the future". Toronto did not call Gainey about the #5 pick (or it has never been reported), so JFJ was also of the mind that Gainey wanted one of the french-canadian prospects. Everyone knew Crosby was going #1, and Ryan/Johnson were going #2/#3. It was obvious that there was going to be at least 2 available to us.

IMO, Gainey selected Price because he knew Toronto was trying to trade up to get him. It was a matter of which is worse "Losing Price to Toronto, or losing a home-grown boy". But, IMO, Kopitar was ranked lower on Gainey's board than the players I have listed. If he didn't select Price ... he was going to select Brule or Bourdon. So they are the ones that got away.

[The Habsome One]

skilly said:

habsfaninla said:

As our fearless leader "W" would say, "One of them furrin countries in Europe, they're all the same."
My mistake, and I'm sure it means a lot to Slovenians. I apologize.
My point is that if he lacked the competition and still developed into a suprelative talent, there is that much more room for further improvement.

I am not arguing whether Kopitar has talent or not, or where he is from having anything to do with the selection ... where did that come from?

My arguement is that when the Habs entered that draft their top four rated players were:

1. Poulliot - if you believe the experts
2. Price
3. Brule
4. Bourdon

The fact that three of these are french has nothing to do with it .... they were three extremely talented forwards and a surprise, lowly ranked goalie. If you believe the reports, Toronto was actively trying to trade up to the #6 spot, and it was widely believed it was to select "the goalie of the future". Toronto did not call Gainey about the #5 pick (or it has never been reported), so JFJ was also of the mind that Gainey wanted one of the french-canadian prospects. Everyone knew Crosby was going #1, and Ryan/Johnson were going #2/#3. It was obvious that there was going to be at least 2 available to us.

IMO, Gainey selected Price because he knew Toronto was trying to trade up to get him. It was a matter of which is worse "Losing Price to Toronto, or losing a home-grown boy". But, IMO, Kopitar was ranked lower on Gainey's board than the players I have listed. If he didn't select Price ... he was going to select Brule or Bourdon. So they are the ones that got away.

Nice analysis, Skilly. However, it really doesn't matter where the Habs had Kopitar on the list. They could have had him, but they let him get away.

He is the only one who could have made us much stronger NOW and in the future. It was poor drafting by the Habs that let him get away.

[Andrew]

It is somewhat frustrating because he was arguably the BPA when the Habs selected, and would have filled our need for a big skilled center.

[Anardil1]

I just had to go back and check some back issues of the Hockey News and ISS draft previews. Both had Kopitar rated 6th. THN had Price 7th and ISS had him 10th. On a side note both publications had Price the top rated goalie available. I didn't get the Red Light Report that year. Anyone know where RLR had Kopitar?

[jkr]

This thread reminds of the stuff that was discussed last year when Marcel Hossa got off to his usual fast start. Once he slowed down to his usual pace the talk slowed down.

Declaring Kopitar a NHL success after 2-3 games is far to premature. Let's talk about it in December and again in February & March.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

skilly said:

habsfaninla said:

As our fearless leader "W" would say, "One of them furrin countries in Europe, they're all the same."
My mistake, and I'm sure it means a lot to Slovenians. I apologize.
My point is that if he lacked the competition and still developed into a suprelative talent, there is that much more room for further improvement.

I am not arguing whether Kopitar has talent or not, or where he is from having anything to do with the selection ... where did that come from?

My arguement is that when the Habs entered that draft their top four rated players were:

1. Poulliot - if you believe the experts
2. Price
3. Brule
4. Bourdon

The fact that three of these are french has nothing to do with it .... they were three extremely talented players and a surprise, lowly ranked goalie. If you believe the reports, Toronto was actively trying to trade up to the #6 spot, and it was widely believed it was to select "the goalie of the future". Toronto did not call Gainey about the #5 pick (or it has never been reported), so JFJ was also of the mind that Gainey wanted one of the french-canadian prospects. Everyone knew Crosby was going #1, and Ryan/Johnson were going #2/#3. It was obvious that there was going to be at least 2 available to us.

IMO, Gainey selected Price because he knew Toronto was trying to trade up to get him. It was a matter of which is worse "Losing Price to Toronto, or losing a home-grown boy". But, IMO, Kopitar was ranked lower on Gainey's board than the players I have listed. If he didn't select Price ... he was going to select Brule or Bourdon. So they are the ones that got away.

I agree that Gainey had Poulliot, Price, Brule and Bourdon ranked ahead of Kopitar. They shouldn't have been. Kopitar has talent, speed and a great future, not based upon two good games, but based upon the information we all had two years ago. He was 6'5" and weighed 215 pounds at 17 years of age. Skated like the wind, made outstanding plays with great moves and wasn't anywhere near his polished potential. None of that has changed.
Jiri Hudler was a tiny center at 16 playing among men. He floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee. He didn't jump to the NHL like Crosby or Ovetchkin and never will threaten them, but he is loaded with talent and will help Detroit for a long time.
Steve Bernier was a big monster in Moncton with a great shot who staked out the slot as his private territory.
It's not a case of I told you so, because I make mistakes too. I also know that Gainey knows a lot more about hockey than I do. Even Houle had a lot more resources available to him than we do. Doesn't stop us from second guessing and when we come up right, it's frustrating.

[The Habsome One]

anardil1 said:

I just had to go back and check some back issues of the Hockey News and ISS draft previews. Both had Kopitar rated 6th. THN had Price 7th and ISS had him 10th. On a side note both publications had Price the top rated goalie available. I didn't get the Red Light Report that year. Anyone know where RLR had Kopitar?

Red Line had him at #5 (interestingly, they had Latendresse at #6!): www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2005-07-08-red-line-report_x.htm

ISS, although having him at 6th, said they wouldn't be surprised at all if he was picked #2:
tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=127848&hubname=

McKeen's had him rated #3 at one point.

[The Habsome One]

jkr said:

This thread reminds of the stuff that was discussed last year when Marcel Hossa got off to his usual fast start. Once he slowed down to his usual pace the talk slowed down.

Declaring Kopitar a NHL success after 2-3 games is far to premature. Let's talk about it in December and again in February & March.

This thread may remind you of the Marcel Hossa discussion, but that's really just because you (I'm assuming) haven't seen Kopitar play. People who've seen Kopitar play are raving about the way Kopitar plays, not his a mere one or two things (like shoot and score) he does well. Kopitar could have 0 points and the raving in LA about his play would still go on.

[jkr]

thehabsomeone said:

jkr said:

This thread reminds of the stuff that was discussed last year when Marcel Hossa got off to his usual fast start. Once he slowed down to his usual pace the talk slowed down.

Declaring Kopitar a NHL success after 2-3 games is far to premature. Let's talk about it in December and again in February & March.

This thread may remind you of the Marcel Hossa discussion, but that's really just because you (I'm assuming) haven't seen Kopitar play. People who've seen Kopitar play are raving about the way Kopitar plays, not his a mere one or two things (like shoot and score) he does well. Kopitar could have 0 points and the raving in LA about his play would still go on.

You're right - I haven't seen him play. All I'm saying is let's give it a little time.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Watching him right now against the Islanders. He's not perfect, but he's ready now and one of the slickest guys on the ice. Long stride and deceptive speed reminds me of a #4 WHO PLAYED FOR THE hAB'S., LONG REACH