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Post by seventeen on Jun 14, 2020 13:46:38 GMT -5
He looks well muscled but not Bergevin/Timmins like. Which I think is great. I don't want him looking like a musclebound idiot because you lose flexibility and become prone to injury (my opinion, not a scientific, medically proven one). I'd rather a guy took up Yoga than weight lifting.
I have been, maybe not surprised but disappointed and frustrated at the fans who have written KK off and already blame Bergevin and Timmins for taking him over Tkachuk. Obviously, I'm not a Bergevin fan, but KK was my pick as well at the #3 spot. The kid has great vision, a top notch hockey IQ, a very underrated wrist shot and is a centre. At the time KK was drafted, Suzuki wasn't at the point he is today, Domi hadn't done anything (I don't think he's an NHL centre) and we desperately needed to improve up the middle. I'm not a fan of drafting for need above drafting the best prospect available, but one could make a case that looking ahead, KK was the BPA. He's nearly a year younger than Tkachuk. Now if someone want to make the argument we should have taken Quinn Hughes I'll listen to that because KK and Hughes were the guys I liked the best after the obvious first 2 picks.
KK is the proverbial diamond in the rough and given that he actually had decent numbers in his rookie year, that he slumped a bit in his second (after Julien played him indecisively and with wingers who haven't become scorers yet) and that he had some injuries, his performance has been all right. He's not an idiot. He knows he could be a bit faster and stronger and (surprise!) guess what he's working on. As an aside it is nice to see the Habs hired a skating coach for him (sarcasm intended). Yet one more example of the Habs lack of desire to improve the product if it costs them anything. Sheesh. How much can it cost to hire a skating coach? Look at the value a team can get out of it. Grrrrr.
I'm looking forward to seeing KK play this year. It should be a lot of fun!
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 15, 2020 9:53:14 GMT -5
Yep. Again, he's still only 19 (though almost 20 - cue the bust machine!). And we knew, when he was drafted, that he was a bit of a project, that he still had to grow (unlike the Tkachuks, who are born as full-grown men - their mothers are not happy). The vision is elite, the shot is elite (though under-used), the attention to detail is very good... I don't think he'll ever be a speedster, but he should be fast enough. I still think he's a 70+ point center, perhaps point-per-game if given an elite winger. I'm not worried.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 15, 2020 11:00:30 GMT -5
Yep. Again, he's still only 19 (though almost 20 - cue the bust machine!). And we knew, when he was drafted, that he was a bit of a project, that he still had to grow (unlike the Tkachuks, who are born as full-grown men - their mothers are not happy). The vision is elite, the shot is elite (though under-used), the attention to detail is very good... I don't think he'll ever be a speedster, but he should be fast enough. I still think he's a 70+ point center, perhaps point-per-game if given an elite winger. I'm not worried. I hope you're right. I used to think of him as a young Bobby Smith, but his best comp today is Jack Eichel. Both have similar build - tall, lanky, not terribly explosive legs/lower body, but Eichel has great vision, quick/accurate/deceptive shot, and the hockey sense to make up for any physical shortcomings. Eichel also makes up in shiftiness and mobility what he lacks in end to end speed. He just finds and uses space extremely well. Now Eichel is at a level where his confidence is off the charts. You watch highlights of him and he's composed, the game slows down for him, he just looks like a guy who is in control. Eichel has 5 seasons and 350 NHL games under his belt, but at 23 he's settled into a PPG guy and is improving as a goal scorer. Does KK have Eichel level ability? I guess that's the question, but I see a ton of Eichel in him as far as body/skill set. He clearly needs a bit more time, but he should be able dominate in Laval. It's the confidence and assertiveness factor that KK needs to build.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 15, 2020 11:34:08 GMT -5
He is still so young, still developing the many nuances of playing pro hockey, and physically growing into his body. Lots of good runway left IMO.
Boston, very good point on confidence. Quite clearly he had lost it last season by the time he was sent to Laval. In fact, he stated that his first Rocket game was the most fun game he had that season. According to Bouchard, he was an avid learner with him and he saw him improve in areas that Joel knew would get him in Claude’s bad books. Is he totally ready now (or when his spleen situation is improved enough to get cleared to play)? Who knows, but I bet his confidence is better, he has improved in some areas, and is working in Finland with some key coaches to work on further areas to be developed as seventeen outlined in his post.
The hockey IQ, vision and skill are there. I first saw them on display at the U-18s. He has shown that he has them at the NHL level too as a teenager (that is still quite the accomplishment). You either have those things or not. You can work and develop other attributes such as skating, strength, board work (thanks Claude), and faceoffs to name a few.
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Post by Skilly on Jun 15, 2020 13:02:16 GMT -5
Well put me in the "worried camp" …
He can work on a gazillion skills and become elite at everything he touches … it means Jack Eichel s&^t if he isn't given the wingers so he can use these skillsets and given the ice time to do so as well.
And if anyone thinks Kotkaniemi is getting first or second line minutes anytime soon, then I have a bridge on the 401 to sell you. And that worries me, that the coaching staff are not going to give him a legitimate shot.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 15, 2020 13:06:20 GMT -5
He is still so young, still developing the many nuances of playing pro hockey, and physically growing into his body. Lots of good runway left IMO. Boston, very good point on confidence. Quite clearly he had lost it last season by the time he was sent to Laval. In fact, he stated that his first Rocket game was the most fun game he had that season. According to Bouchard, he was an avid learner with him and he saw him improve in areas that Joel knew would get him in Claude’s bad books. Is he totally ready now (or when his spleen situation is improved enough to get cleared to play)? Who knows, but I bet his confidence is better, he has improved in some areas, and is working in Finland with some key coaches to work on further areas to be developed as seventeen outlined in his post. The hockey IQ, vision and skill are there. I first saw them on display at the U-18s. He has shown that he has them at the NHL level too as a teenager (that is still quite the accomplishment). You either have those things or not. You can work and develop other attributes such as skating, strength, board work (thanks Claude), and faceoffs to name a few. This is kind of interesting in a way. Pre-Julien we hated when the kids got sent to hell (Lefebvre). Now it's almost the reverse. We are relieved when a kid goes to Bouchard because he;s actually going to get some support. This begs the question, "What the hell is going on in Montreal?" Why can't kids develop confidence there? There's always an exception (Suzuki), but one can also point out that he was given opportunity that others weren't. Personally I believe there's a serious flaw with Julien and his approach to young players. He has a definite bias toward veterans, more than is justified IMO. He believes that to win now, he has to limit the kids because they make costly mistakes. Naturally, we can find many examples of veterans making costly mistakes, but that doesn't faze Julien. It's the accepted dogma. I can excuse him to a point because despite the fact the team is not good enough to make the playoffs, Bergevin and Molson have that as their goal, so Julien is between the proverbial rock and hard place. Instead of developing the kids so that the Habs are a good team in 3 years time, he has to hurt their development in a futile effort to generate money for Molson. It was sad to read KK's comments that he was having fun again playing hockey in Laval. Why was that not so in Montreal? The answer to that question would be revealing.
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Post by folatre on Jun 15, 2020 17:39:59 GMT -5
He is looking good there on the tennis court. Even more important than joining the biceps club, jeje, hopefully the kid is working on his first step and polishing some kinks out of his skating stride. In the same vein, in general he just needs more lower body strength to have a base that gives him better balance.
I am still excited by Kotkaniemi's potential. He possesses vision that cannot be taught and he can really distribute and shoot the puck. When you think he received no top six minutes and minimal power play time, his first was quite good. Look at a comparable this season, everyone is by and large complimentary of Dach's 2019-20 rookie campaign (23 points in 64 games), which should underscore for Habs' fans how well Kotkaniemi played his rookie season. Nothing went right for him in year two, mainly because of one injury after another. For me this organization needs to play him with better wingers, make him a mainstay on the power play, and live with the mistakes that a 20 will make.
The whole Kotkaniemi-Tkachuk thing feels exasperating because it is still too early to know. For me some people, like Pierre McGuire, are exaggerating Tkachuk's ceiling. I love his mix of skill, physicality, and fire. But he got the best linemates they could give him, plus first unit power play minutes, and his coaches never demoted him for stupid turnovers that ended up in the back of his own team's net. When you factor in all those advantages plus him being a year older than Kotkaniemi, I look at Tkachuk's numbers and do not see a guy that projects to regularly score 35-40 goals or be a point a game player.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 15, 2020 21:35:54 GMT -5
It's early yet but right now Tkachuk is much better than KK. So management can't have it both ways - either they picked the wrong player or they have mishandled his development. Fact is, had they taken Tkachuk we'd probably be in a playoff position right now. I love KK and think he'll be a top end centre but so far his development has been a gong show. KK will be a very good player, a first round number ten overall pick. Tkachuk is special and will continue to be so. Not a knock on KK as much as a criticism of Bergevin/Timmons.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 15, 2020 21:40:36 GMT -5
And perhaps Suzuki is more comfortable & doing well because he went back to junior last season & dominated in the playoffs, almost winning a Memorial Cup. Didn't management learn anything from that? It's all about PR... Next year it'll CC and Romanov... They'll get messed up as well. This organization is not bright enough to see how other teams are having success... they keep doing the same thing over and can;t figure out why it doesn;t work... Like a messed up Roomba... banging into the same wall repeatedly. Not stealing your thunder, but i love it. Jonathan Roomba Drouin crosses the blue line and heads to the boards.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 16, 2020 7:34:58 GMT -5
He is still so young, still developing the many nuances of playing pro hockey, and physically growing into his body. Lots of good runway left IMO. Boston, very good point on confidence. Quite clearly he had lost it last season by the time he was sent to Laval. In fact, he stated that his first Rocket game was the most fun game he had that season. According to Bouchard, he was an avid learner with him and he saw him improve in areas that Joel knew would get him in Claude’s bad books. Is he totally ready now (or when his spleen situation is improved enough to get cleared to play)? Who knows, but I bet his confidence is better, he has improved in some areas, and is working in Finland with some key coaches to work on further areas to be developed as seventeen outlined in his post. The hockey IQ, vision and skill are there. I first saw them on display at the U-18s. He has shown that he has them at the NHL level too as a teenager (that is still quite the accomplishment). You either have those things or not. You can work and develop other attributes such as skating, strength, board work (thanks Claude), and faceoffs to name a few. This is kind of interesting in a way. Pre-Julien we hated when the kids got sent to hell (Lefebvre). Now it's almost the reverse. We are relieved when a kid goes to Bouchard because he;s actually going to get some support. This begs the question, "What the hell is going on in Montreal?" Why can't kids develop confidence there? There's always an exception (Suzuki), but one can also point out that he was given opportunity that others weren't. Personally I believe there's a serious flaw with Julien and his approach to young players. He has a definite bias toward veterans, more than is justified IMO. He believes that to win now, he has to limit the kids because they make costly mistakes. Naturally, we can find many examples of veterans making costly mistakes, but that doesn't faze Julien. It's the accepted dogma. I can excuse him to a point because despite the fact the team is not good enough to make the playoffs, Bergevin and Molson have that as their goal, so Julien is between the proverbial rock and hard place. Instead of developing the kids so that the Habs are a good team in 3 years time, he has to hurt their development in a futile effort to generate money for Molson. It was sad to read KK's comments that he was having fun again playing hockey in Laval. Why was that not so in Montreal? The answer to that question would be revealing. Seguin underachieved under Julien. Makes a fellow wonder
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 16, 2020 7:57:41 GMT -5
He is looking good there on the tennis court. Even more important than joining the biceps club, jeje, hopefully the kid is working on his first step and polishing some kinks out of his skating stride. In the same vein, in general he just needs more lower body strength to have a base that gives him better balance. I am still excited by Kotkaniemi's potential. He possesses vision that cannot be taught and he can really distribute and shoot the puck. When you think he received no top six minutes and minimal power play time, his first was quite good. Look at a comparable this season, everyone is by and large complimentary of Dach's 2019-20 rookie campaign (23 points in 64 games), which should underscore for Habs' fans how well Kotkaniemi played his rookie season. Nothing went right for him in year two, mainly because of one injury after another. For me this organization needs to play him with better wingers, make him a mainstay on the power play, and live with the mistakes that a 20 will make. The whole Kotkaniemi-Tkachuk thing feels exasperating because it is still too early to know. For me some people, like Pierre McGuire, are exaggerating Tkachuk's ceiling. I love his mix of skill, physicality, and fire. But he got the best linemates they could give him, plus first unit power play minutes, and his coaches never demoted him for stupid turnovers that ended up in the back of his own team's net. When you factor in all those advantages plus him being a year older than Kotkaniemi, I look at Tkachuk's numbers and do not see a guy that projects to regularly score 35-40 goals or be a point a game player. Much of it will come down to how hard Kotkaniemi will work? Galchenyuk at 21, was a 30 goal scorer and looked like a future stud. KK certainly has the skills, but needs a lot to work on to become a top 2 center. Needs to get better on faceoffs, core strength, needs to learn to take a hit to avoid injuries.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 18, 2020 6:58:45 GMT -5
He is looking good there on the tennis court. Even more important than joining the biceps club, jeje, hopefully the kid is working on his first step and polishing some kinks out of his skating stride. In the same vein, in general he just needs more lower body strength to have a base that gives him better balance. I am still excited by Kotkaniemi's potential. He possesses vision that cannot be taught and he can really distribute and shoot the puck. When you think he received no top six minutes and minimal power play time, his first was quite good. Look at a comparable this season, everyone is by and large complimentary of Dach's 2019-20 rookie campaign (23 points in 64 games), which should underscore for Habs' fans how well Kotkaniemi played his rookie season. Nothing went right for him in year two, mainly because of one injury after another. For me this organization needs to play him with better wingers, make him a mainstay on the power play, and live with the mistakes that a 20 will make. The whole Kotkaniemi-Tkachuk thing feels exasperating because it is still too early to know. For me some people, like Pierre McGuire, are exaggerating Tkachuk's ceiling. I love his mix of skill, physicality, and fire. But he got the best linemates they could give him, plus first unit power play minutes, and his coaches never demoted him for stupid turnovers that ended up in the back of his own team's net. When you factor in all those advantages plus him being a year older than Kotkaniemi, I look at Tkachuk's numbers and do not see a guy that projects to regularly score 35-40 goals or be a point a game player. Much of it will come down to how hard Kotkaniemi will work? Galchenyuk at 21, was a 30 goal scorer and looked like a future stud. KK certainly has the skills, but needs a lot to work on to become a top 2 center. Needs to get better on faceoffs, core strength, needs to learn to take a hit to avoid injuries. but Tkachuk, like his brother, has attitude and are assholes. They need someone to clean their clock to get them to "play the right way".
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 18, 2020 8:31:16 GMT -5
Much of it will come down to how hard Kotkaniemi will work? Galchenyuk at 21, was a 30 goal scorer and looked like a future stud. KK certainly has the skills, but needs a lot to work on to become a top 2 center. Needs to get better on faceoffs, core strength, needs to learn to take a hit to avoid injuries. but Tkachuk, like his brother, has attitude and are assholes. They need someone to clean their clock to get them to "play the right way". Jean Beliveau was a distinguished gentleman, the Rocket made enemies and John Ferguson didn’t have many friends in the league. Without assholes the team is full of Saperlipopette.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 19, 2020 9:14:32 GMT -5
but Tkachuk, like his brother, has attitude and are assholes. They need someone to clean their clock to get them to "play the right way". Jean Beliveau was a distinguished gentleman, the Rocket made enemies and John Ferguson didn’t have many friends in the league. Without assholes the team is full of Saperlipopette. I dont disagree with you, we need assholes since we dont have size up front we need our D to be assholes Weber, Chiarot, Petry, Romanov and Fluery
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Post by folatre on Jun 19, 2020 22:34:28 GMT -5
For sure, the forwards corps could use more size because right now there is almost no heaviness. Two or three additional big bodied wingers who can skate and play hockey would give the lineup more balance and complementarity among the pieces rather than the redundancy that we see now.
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