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Post by jkr on Mar 19, 2020 6:46:59 GMT -5
ANOTHER case of a worthless and probably corrupt UN organization. The WHO.... What can the WHO officials be charged with? That is what I want to know Do NOT forget, Taiwan was screening and restricting planes TWO WEEKS EARLIER but China choked that information off and the WHO did not only comply with Chinas wishes, because of China, the WHO did not allow Taiwan a voice on the table. Worse of all, our Dear Leaderless kept quoting them as a world authority for action, ignoring the obvious Chinese influence and equally obvious incompetence. "Conducted by Chinese authorities". That says it all. What would you expect them to say?  |
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Post by franko on Mar 19, 2020 9:36:55 GMT -5
ANOTHER case of a worthless and probably corrupt UN organization. : Terry Glavin, the NP. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 19, 2020 11:06:41 GMT -5
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Post by Cranky on Mar 19, 2020 12:29:59 GMT -5
I don't understand the kowtowing to China. Countries are afraid of hurting the feelings of a nation that started a deadly pandemic? I cant stand Trump but in this case there is no room for political correctness. This country is holding 2 Canadians for the last 16 months, blocked canola shipments & lectured us on how to run the country. We're supposed to be polite now? And whatever you do, don't let Huawei in to the 5G network. Companies went to China for cheaper and cheaper but in reality, that was at the cost of our industries. Now we are now paying the second, much higher price. So tell me again why we should play nice with Chinese government? When our lives are on the line and our economists destroyed? I honestly want ALL TRADE with China to be shut down. Period. We may "suffer" for a year of two until other supply lines form, but then again, they already tought us how to "suffer". iPhone, Huawei and their like can shove it and their products, we can do without the latest and the greatest of NOTHING absolutely NOTHING we need. |
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Post by franko on Mar 19, 2020 12:49:22 GMT -5
Companies went to China for cheaper and cheaper but in reality, that was at the cost of our industries. who cares about our industries if I can save a couple of cents! that's what it's all about -- we want cheaper and are willing to pay the price (or not pay the price, really). so what if the quality is poor and we have to replace things earlier. we've become a throw-away society and we've accepted that as the norm. to our shame. but, as I say, we'll have to pay our workers more than they pay theirs, so our goods will cost more. and I won't be able to have as much "stuff". when I want it. are you kidding? we NEED everything that we WANT. how dare you suggest that I not upgrade my phone every two years, even though the old one works just fine? it doesn't have the latest do-hickey app possibilities! now you've got me going, HA  [/end sermon-that's-coming] |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 19, 2020 13:24:49 GMT -5
Companies went to China for cheaper and cheaper but in reality, that was at the cost of our industries. who cares about our industries if I can save a couple of cents! that's what it's all about -- we want cheaper and are willing to pay the price (or not pay the price, really). so what if the quality is poor and we have to replace things earlier. we've become a throw-away society and we've accepted that as the norm. to our shame. but, as I say, we'll have to pay our workers more than they pay theirs, so our goods will cost more. and I won't be able to have as much "stuff". when I want it. are you kidding? we NEED everything that we WANT. how dare you suggest that I not upgrade my phone every two years, even though the old one works just fine? it doesn't have the latest do-hickey app possibilities! now you've got me going, HA [/end sermon-that's-coming] GO FOR IT.... I've lost many people, indirectly 3-4 times more and the companies around me lost a good town size of workers directly and small city in related jobs....from China Inc. So tell me again about multinational AND consumer greed for the cheaper...cheaper, cheapest.... Latest and greatest......pfffft. As for all those extra sexy must have latest and greatest....I confess, I bought a new lower end phone for my wife because she was using my 5 year old....which is still great but won't receive some bands. My three year old phone just got a new battery, good for another 2 years. So on two counts, personally, China Inc was immensely hurtful to me and my people and currently unneccessary. The latest and greatest contribution to our health and devastated economy just adds to my dislike for China Inc.....and outright blind hatred for COMMUNIST PARTY of CHINA. |
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 19, 2020 13:43:16 GMT -5
Cancel all our free trade deals with China? Isn't that something Bernie Sanders has been proposing? We already knew China is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since the Tiananmen Square massacre (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Just like we already knew Saudi Arabia is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since 9/11 (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Nothing will change, because Big Interests do not want it to change. There is too much money tied up in these regimes to really care about a few thousand dead peasants. Its easy to blame the consumer, but if there are no choices, no iPhones to buy, there is really nothing they - we - can do it about, now is there? Other than gripe and complain? The people with the power to change things, to REALLY change things, are those who control the corporations, supply chains, means of production (and politicians). And they're making money. They're not going to stop doing that just because the Chinese government was too concerned about looking like they knew what they were doing and not so concerned about how many people were going to die as a result. There is money to be made, and for those in charge, that's really all that matters. Same as it ever was. |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 19, 2020 14:02:52 GMT -5
Cancel all our free trade deals with China? Isn't that something Bernie Sanders has been proposing? We already knew China is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since the Tiananmen Square massacre (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Just like we already knew Saudi Arabia is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since 9/11 (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Nothing will change, because Big Interests do not want it to change. There is too much money tied up in these regimes to really care about a few thousand dead peasants. Its easy to blame the consumer, but if there are no choices, no iPhones to buy, there is really nothing they - we - can do it about, now is there? Other than gripe and complain? The people with the power to change things, to REALLY change things, are those who control the corporations, supply chains, means of production (and politicians). And they're making money. They're not going to stop doing that just because the Chinese government was too concerned about looking like they knew what they were doing and not so concerned about how many people were going to die as a result. There is money to be made, and for those in charge, that's really all that matters. Same as it ever was. You must get that gene test because there is no way we can agree this much... People talk from their mouths...and act from their pockets. Those corporations wouldn't exist if people didn't buy their CHEAPER products. So the blame is in a circle of greed..... |
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Post by Andrew on Mar 19, 2020 14:50:47 GMT -5
Possible negligence of the Chinese government aside, I feel like we all should have been listening to Bill Gates. This TED talk from 5 years ago has been popping up in my feeds recently.
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Post by franko on Mar 19, 2020 15:01:11 GMT -5
People talk from their mouths...and act from their pockets. Those corporations wouldn't exist if people didn't buy their CHEAPER products. yup, we all want to support our local independent shop . . . until "we" realize that it is cheaper on-line, or at the multi-national. a W**M*** opened up near to me . . . neighbours complained about it and swore they'd never go to it . . . until it was open for two weeks and they realized how much cheaper things were there. they just didn't realize that things were "cheaper" there until they used them a couple of times. but by then they didn't care; they just went and replaced the items. probably cost the same as buying something with quality in the long run. |
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Post by frozone on Mar 19, 2020 16:05:21 GMT -5
People talk from their mouths...and act from their pockets. Those corporations wouldn't exist if people didn't buy their CHEAPER products. yup, we all want to support our local independent shop . . . until "we" realize that it is cheaper on-line, or at the multi-national. a W**M*** opened up near to me . . . neighbours complained about it and swore they'd never go to it . . . until it was open for two weeks and they realized how much cheaper things were there. they just didn't realize that things were "cheaper" there until they used them a couple of times. but by then they didn't care; they just went and replaced the items. probably cost the same as buying something with quality in the long run. I'm not anti-capitalist, but I see so much failure in humanity to establish responsible priorities within the framework of capitalism... it's hard not to feel hopeless about it all. I'm not stressed right now. Or at least I should say I'm less stressed now than I was back when things were appeared to be hunky-dory. When things were hunky-dory, there was no pressure to change anything. Now, in the midst of a pandemic, I finally have a bit of hope that humanity will evolve a tad. Yes, we will absolutely pay the price, but we will learn some very important lessons out of this. Guaranteed. Not sure what to say for our neighbours south of the border though. Yikes, what a train wreck that has been. Millions of people voted for Trump thinking that he would shake things up. In a very backwards way, they're getting their wish. It could get very ugly. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 19, 2020 16:55:47 GMT -5
There is a battle going on between China and the US for Dominance. Technologically and financially. Rather than nuclear warheads, GDP is the weapon of mass destruction. Even if they come to an agreement on trade, the war won't end. The Chinese would like to be the reserve currency as it gives a country advantages.
It would not surprise me if the arrest of the Huawei exec, Meng Wanjhou, is another skirmish in this war. But that war is a big issue that deserves it's own thread at the least.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 19, 2020 16:59:06 GMT -5
yup, we all want to support our local independent shop . . . until "we" realize that it is cheaper on-line, or at the multi-national. a W**M*** opened up near to me . . . neighbours complained about it and swore they'd never go to it . . . until it was open for two weeks and they realized how much cheaper things were there. they just didn't realize that things were "cheaper" there until they used them a couple of times. but by then they didn't care; they just went and replaced the items. probably cost the same as buying something with quality in the long run. I'm not anti-capitalist, but I see so much failure in humanity to establish responsible priorities within the framework of capitalism... it's hard not to feel hopeless about it all. I'm not stressed right now. Or at least I should say I'm less stressed now than I was back when things were appeared to be hunky-dory. When things were hunky-dory, there was no pressure to change anything. Now, in the midst of a pandemic, I finally have a bit of hope that humanity will evolve a tad. Yes, we will absolutely pay the price, but we will learn some very important lessons out of this. Guaranteed. Not sure what to say for our neighbours south of the border though. Yikes, what a train wreck that has been. Millions of people voted for Trump thinking that he would shake things up. In a very backwards way, they're getting their wish. It could get very ugly. I was surprised by data that showed the air quality in the LA area of California was actually good and that the water in Venice canals, without boat and cruise ship traffic, was crystal clear. What's amazing is the ability of nature to fix itself, and quickly, if we stopped interfering with it. Capitalism itself isn't bad, but the inherent greed that comes with it for many people, is crippling. Usually, the most 'successful' are simply the greediest and most criminal. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 19, 2020 17:32:06 GMT -5
Cancel all our free trade deals with China? Isn't that something Bernie Sanders has been proposing? We already knew China is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since the Tiananmen Square massacre (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Just like we already knew Saudi Arabia is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since 9/11 (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Nothing will change, because Big Interests do not want it to change. There is too much money tied up in these regimes to really care about a few thousand dead peasants. Its easy to blame the consumer, but if there are no choices, no iPhones to buy, there is really nothing they - we - can do it about, now is there? Other than gripe and complain? The people with the power to change things, to REALLY change things, are those who control the corporations, supply chains, means of production (and politicians). And they're making money. They're not going to stop doing that just because the Chinese government was too concerned about looking like they knew what they were doing and not so concerned about how many people were going to die as a result. There is money to be made, and for those in charge, that's really all that matters. Same as it ever was. History repeat itself en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 19, 2020 17:32:44 GMT -5
I'm not anti-capitalist, but I see so much failure in humanity to establish responsible priorities within the framework of capitalism... it's hard not to feel hopeless about it all. I'm not stressed right now. Or at least I should say I'm less stressed now than I was back when things were appeared to be hunky-dory. When things were hunky-dory, there was no pressure to change anything. Now, in the midst of a pandemic, I finally have a bit of hope that humanity will evolve a tad. Yes, we will absolutely pay the price, but we will learn some very important lessons out of this. Guaranteed. Not sure what to say for our neighbours south of the border though. Yikes, what a train wreck that has been. Millions of people voted for Trump thinking that he would shake things up. In a very backwards way, they're getting their wish. It could get very ugly. I was surprised by data that showed the air quality in the LA area of California was actually good and that the water in Venice canals, without boat and cruise ship traffic, was crystal clear. What's amazing is the ability of nature to fix itself, and quickly, if we stopped interfering with it. Capitalism itself isn't bad, but the inherent greed that comes with it for many people, is crippling. Usually, the most 'successful' are simply the greediest and most criminal. Watch the movie Dark Waters |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 19, 2020 17:57:06 GMT -5
I'm not anti-capitalist, but I see so much failure in humanity to establish responsible priorities within the framework of capitalism... it's hard not to feel hopeless about it all. I'm not stressed right now. Or at least I should say I'm less stressed now than I was back when things were appeared to be hunky-dory. When things were hunky-dory, there was no pressure to change anything. Now, in the midst of a pandemic, I finally have a bit of hope that humanity will evolve a tad. Yes, we will absolutely pay the price, but we will learn some very important lessons out of this. Guaranteed. I'm obviously "pro-capitalist" and I have a thing or two to say about it. There is OBVIOUSLY the wolves, no, make that hyenas in capitalism. Sometimes, there are hyena companies built on exploitation. But even the best corporations/multinationals intents turns good companies into hyenas if they are against the wall and trying to survive. OK...let's look at something closer.... Case in point of one I know directly, top to bottom. It had a good size town in amount of employees and over a dozen plants around the world. They were a fantastic customer and no one could say a single thing bad about their product or their relations with employees. NOTHING. ZIPPO. So China Inc comes along and now they are seeing product at HALF PRICE slashing away at their customer base. We thought...surely the customer can see the quality difference for a lifetime product (it was built from my components). So at the biggest well known box store we all shop in, we ran an experiment. We put a pallet full of our product next to the inferior and cheaper Chinese import. The Chinese import sold out and we sold NOTHING. NOT ONE PIECE. I literally walked up to the pallet and...was staring at my extinction. Right there and then the CEO of this multinational and I knew we were done. He HAD to either import or manufacture in China or perish. I knew my big, very profitable production was done. Put a fork in it. His spotless record of being a good corporate citizen was now going to be a slaughter of layoffs and shuttered plants. Within a year, we laid off 90% of our people and he laid off 60%. Only his custom business remained and whatever people he needed for import/distribution. Our plans for the next generation in integrated supply management AND manufacturing efficiency AND corporate responsibility, from my new 100,000+ ft2 plant, his million ft2 square plant, the in-house subsidized food court, the in-house day care, our model for pay and labour stability....ALL WIPED OUT. Both of our cherished and arrogant "we're Canadian, we're responsible, we're better" was reduced to being two extinct dinosaurs. Sooo..... To everyone on the outside this was just another greedy multinational. Of course this greedy multinational went to China to build their product. Of course they must be hyenas because they laid off so many people to protect their bottom line. In fact, it wasn't only this multinational that went under, my entire market segment was devastated. ALL within a few years. All because of China Inc. Do you blame the "greedy" multinationals/corporations for going overseas? The consumers and their desire for cheaper, cheaper, cheapest? The politicians for not erecting tariff barriers? Who? And how on earth are you going to establish "responsible priorities within the framework of capitalism" unless you intend to tell consumers that they can only buy the product that serves their best interests? At a higher price. Any politician who creates higher costs to the consumer will be committing political suicide because he will be wiped out when that consumer becomes a voter... |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 19, 2020 18:30:41 GMT -5
I was surprised by data that showed the air quality in the LA area of California was actually good and that the water in Venice canals, without boat and cruise ship traffic, was crystal clear. This happened because the economies is devastated. I mean DEVASTATED, complete shut downs. Which is a bit of a bad thing. Which brings us to the "reason" why ultra eco cultist think that wiping out 90% of humanity is good for Gia. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 20, 2020 10:42:56 GMT -5
Nothing will change, because Big Interests do not want it to change. There is too much money tied up in these regimes to really care about a few thousand dead peasants. Its easy to blame the consumer, but if there are no choices, no iPhones to buy, there is really nothing they - we - can do it about, now is there? Other than gripe and complain? The people with the power to change things, to REALLY change things, are those who control the corporations, supply chains, means of production (and politicians). And they're making money. They're not going to stop doing that just because the Chinese government was too concerned about looking like they knew what they were doing and not so concerned about how many people were going to die as a result. There is money to be made, and for those in charge, that's really all that matters. Same as it ever was. ... George Carlin had it right years ago ...
... if anyone has a problem with the language just let me know and I'll take it down ...
... warning - strong language ...
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Post by franko on Mar 20, 2020 11:56:28 GMT -5
George Carlin had it right years ago ... ... if anyone has a problem with the language just let me know and I'll take it down ... ... warning - strong language ... Carlin was a prophet. he was crass, he was rude, he was vulgar, he was uncouth. but he was often bang-on, political without seeming so. definitely prophetic. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 20, 2020 14:35:26 GMT -5
My wife got laid off and just applied for EI. Her whole office got laid off.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 20, 2020 14:45:31 GMT -5
Cancel all our free trade deals with China? Isn't that something Bernie Sanders has been proposing? We already knew China is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since the Tiananmen Square massacre (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Just like we already knew Saudi Arabia is a murderous, lying, authoritarian regime. We've known this since 9/11 (and really, since before that, but let's pick a major, dramatic event in history to point to). Nothing will change, because Big Interests do not want it to change. There is too much money tied up in these regimes to really care about a few thousand dead peasants. Its easy to blame the consumer, but if there are no choices, no iPhones to buy, there is really nothing they - we - can do it about, now is there? Other than gripe and complain? The people with the power to change things, to REALLY change things, are those who control the corporations, supply chains, means of production (and politicians). And they're making money. They're not going to stop doing that just because the Chinese government was too concerned about looking like they knew what they were doing and not so concerned about how many people were going to die as a result. There is money to be made, and for those in charge, that's really all that matters. Same as it ever was. While I haven't researched it by any means, the French Revolution is an example of the Rich and Powerful ignoring the masses for too long. History can and will repeat itself. All those powerbrokers don't give a damn about everyone else because it usually doesn't affect them. Until it does. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 20, 2020 14:55:40 GMT -5
I was surprised by data that showed the air quality in the LA area of California was actually good and that the water in Venice canals, without boat and cruise ship traffic, was crystal clear. This happened because the economies is devastated. I mean DEVASTATED, complete shut downs. Which is a bit of a bad thing. Which brings us to the "reason" why ultra eco cultist think that wiping out 90% of humanity is good for Gia. I was pointing out how much things can improve if certain behaviours change. I'm not saying we have to devastate the economy to get better water or air, but say we all start driving electric cars ? We'd have to find ways of generating more electricity to meet demand without burning more coal or oil, but that one change in behaviour would have a pretty dramatic impact. There would likely be unintended consequences of that, but I think we're creative enough to come up with solutions to those issues. |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 20, 2020 14:57:17 GMT -5
My wife got laid off and just applied for EI. Her whole office got laid off. I hope you don't get into a bind. Nothing needs to be paid right now. There is no utility payment requirement and rent can be pushed forward (i think it can, i have done it for my commercial leases). Money only reserved for food and gas. Safety first. Bills later. |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 20, 2020 15:10:36 GMT -5
This happened because the economies is devastated. I mean DEVASTATED, complete shut downs. Which is a bit of a bad thing. Which brings us to the "reason" why ultra eco cultist think that wiping out 90% of humanity is good for Gia. I was pointing out how much things can improve if certain behaviours change. I'm not saying we have to devastate the economy to get better water or air, but say we all start driving electric cars ? We'd have to find ways of generating more electricity to meet demand without burning more coal or oil, but that one change in behaviour would have a pretty dramatic impact. There would likely be unintended consequences of that, but I think we're creative enough to come up with solutions to those issues. Ways of generating electricity....magic words. Really magic. In the mods room, I've already written extensivly on the uselessness of wind/solar becoming base line supplies. The numbers are simply astronomical huge and the cure is worse then the symtoms. If we are prepared to go fully nuclear, or safer versions of nuclear, by all means. At no point, actually, vehemently opposed to damaging our economy on the hysteria that we have "20 years to go before climate Armaggedon". So i don't buy nor care for the...."look what could be achieved"....when it's "achieved" by utter collapse of economies. Actually, collapse of our civilization. Nuclear. Or dilithium crystals... |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 20, 2020 16:20:45 GMT -5
Just talked to my caregiver and friends in Greece.
Cops are citing any non essential shops that are open. That means fines and possible loss of operating licence . Cops are also confronting any gatherings on the street. More then two or three people gets attention.
This is from a country that use to be so lax on enforcing seat belt laws, helmet laws, almost third world enforcement.....now the cops are hyper vigilant and nasty.
Essentially, there, cops can enforce existing laws to the hilt and courts will shred any lawyer yapping about " human rights". But, the only problem is that this level of enforcememt is spotty. One city can be unforgivingnly strict and the next, not so much. (Plus the old bs about who you know.)
Tommorrow, no travel within the country unless it's authorized personel.
Wow....the world has changed in dramatic fashion..even in Greece.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 20, 2020 18:00:15 GMT -5
My wife got laid off and just applied for EI. Her whole office got laid off. I hope you don't get into a bind. Nothing needs to be paid right now. There is no utility payment requirement and rent can be pushed forward (i think it can, i have done it for my commercial leases). Money only reserved for food and gas. Safety first. Bills later. Thanks Cranky... it's not too bad... were not spending a kit because we're not going anywhere... I'm teleworking so were not using a lot of gas, the cupboards and freezer are stocked so were good. I know there are some in my wife's office who are paycheque to paycheque. They've applied for EI as soon as the got their RoE. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 20, 2020 18:03:34 GMT -5
Watching the news and something that never occurred to me is that people aren't donating blood so the blood supply can get low very quickly
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Post by franko on Mar 20, 2020 18:58:53 GMT -5
I know there are some in my wife's office who are paycheque to paycheque. They've applied for EI as soon as the got their RoE. my wife is self-employed and told to shut down by her licensing board. will be interesting, I don't think she'll qualify for any of the government "help". saving money on not going out for meals though. wonder if this is a way for the current Fed leadership to slip in guaranteed income -- it's be well supported by the NDP and Bloc. |
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Post by franko on Mar 20, 2020 19:00:24 GMT -5
oh, and I totally surprised that the "one world government" meme hasn't come out loud and strong by some of the more fundamentalist churches.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 20, 2020 21:27:04 GMT -5
my wife is self-employed and told to shut down by her licensing board. will be interesting, I don't think she'll qualify for any of the government "help". saving money on not going out for meals though. wonder if this is a way for the current Fed leadership to slip in guaranteed income -- it's be well supported by the NDP and Bloc. What was it? Never waste a good crisis? On the other hand, we're going to sink 100 billion or more into this crisis, so expect the tax rates to reach "one for you, two for me". Or something like a "one time new tax" which will never go away. And a rise in the GST... |
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[/end sermon-that's-coming]
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