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Post by Cranky on Dec 7, 2021 16:46:53 GMT -5
I've been doing some not so light reading on the Lancet with massive studies on the issue of boosters.
Being beautiful enough to play a TV doctor.....I came to a medical conclusion...
If you are over 70 or have immunity compromising condition, BOOST NOW. If you are between 40 and 69, plan on it ASAP to get it very near future. If you are under 40, consider it for the near future.
Vaccine DOES wane over time, including the booster. You are not defenseless, certainly not the obscene numbers spouted by the pure garbage media, but your chances of a breakthrough increase over time. Think of ot this way.....the vaccine wanes and your age/condition is the rate of waning.
(We are getting ours in January/February but we are also very low exposure risk. One of the very few "upside" of retirement.)
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 7, 2021 22:17:53 GMT -5
Got it yesterday ... Kingston is now one of the provincial hot spots ... our numbers started climbing just as soon as they opened the schools ... Queen's U was responsible for several outbreaks a few weeks back, but it's the public school system that is now feeding the tally ... our emergency units are maxed out, and they've just transported three patients to out-of-town facilities to ease the burden ... still, it's back to business for much of the city ... if you've been fully vaccinated, then it's just about back to normal ... been like that for a while now ...
Cheers.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 8, 2021 0:14:05 GMT -5
Good stuff Dis.
A bit hesitant but the best study I could find changed my mind and now going to book for Jan/Feb.
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Post by PTH on Dec 8, 2021 0:17:17 GMT -5
Of course, boosters have to be available.
For under 60 in Quebec, they just aren't.
And it's still time to mask and social distance, the Omicron variant has a large degree of immune evasion... we're basically back in March 2020, whether public health authorities say so or not.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 8, 2021 19:36:39 GMT -5
We know NOTHING about Omicron other then speculation....and DO NOT WATCH THE GARBAGE MEDIA.
So far I have read a few dozen medical reports and they are all over the place. Literally contradicting each other.
The reports coming from South Africa are very limited and with massive unknowns like condition, health, following health protocols, etc. Plus SA is has a very low vaccination rate. In Canada we are approaching 82% of the entire population so it's literally a different world in terms of how it will hit us.
Omicron is pure "wait and see" rather then "react and worry". We will know within a few weeks to no more then a month.
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Post by PTH on Dec 8, 2021 22:19:47 GMT -5
We know NOTHING about Omicron other then speculation....and DO NOT WATCH THE GARBAGE MEDIA. So far I have read a few dozen medical reports and they are all over the place. Literally contradicting each other. The reports coming from South Africa are very limited and with massive unknowns like condition, health, following health protocols, etc. Plus SA is has a very low vaccination rate. In Canada we are approaching 82% of the entire population so it's literally a different world in terms of how it will hit us. Omicron is pure "wait and see" rather then "react and worry". We will know within a few weeks to no more then a month. No. The government and us all need to act as if this is bad, and hopefully dial it down when it isn't. I've got a pool going on twitter for when the next lockdown starts, I chose Feb 7th. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 9, 2021 19:29:12 GMT -5
We know NOTHING about Omicron other then speculation....and DO NOT WATCH THE GARBAGE MEDIA. So far I have read a few dozen medical reports and they are all over the place. Literally contradicting each other. The reports coming from South Africa are very limited and with massive unknowns like condition, health, following health protocols, etc. Plus SA is has a very low vaccination rate. In Canada we are approaching 82% of the entire population so it's literally a different world in terms of how it will hit us. Omicron is pure "wait and see" rather then "react and worry". We will know within a few weeks to no more then a month. No. The government and us all need to act as if this is bad, and hopefully dial it down when it isn't. I've got a pool going on twitter for when the next lockdown starts, I chose Feb 7th. I never argue with someone too cautious about a pandemic. As for lockdowns....possibly. Xmas/NewYear is here and superspreader events will be a dime a dozen. If my theory about viral load being dominating reason for breakthroughs, which is common sense, there will be lots of parties in small spaces to make sure the virus makes new friends. I would say move that date back a few weeks. Once cases start up, politicians will panic and go back to the usual "solution". |
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Post by Tankdriver on Dec 10, 2021 8:46:10 GMT -5
I'd like to know when things got normal for your guys. Here in Quebec we are still wearing a mask every where, still have social measures and restrictions in place and is closing on 2 years and still no full return to work order. I've done the vaccine and remembered once upon a time where it was once the vaccine has been done we won't have to wear a mask...I don't want to spend the next 10 years having to wear a mask wherever I go.
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Post by PTH on Dec 10, 2021 22:25:38 GMT -5
I'd like to know when things got normal for your guys. Here in Quebec we are still wearing a mask every where, still have social measures and restrictions in place and is closing on 2 years and still no full return to work order. I've done the vaccine and remembered once upon a time where it was once the vaccine has been done we won't have to wear a mask...I don't want to spend the next 10 years having to wear a mask wherever I go. We all want it to end. But the various governments consistently cutting health precautions too quickly mean that the Delta variant was going to hurt badly, and now with Omicron we're essentially back to square one. I'm planning a big CostCo run on Monday night because I'm expecting another lockdown, maybe even before Christmas. I'm actually considering trying to slip through to my mother's place in Ottawa as early as I possibly can so I can be there for Christmas, since I'm thinking by the 23d provincial borders might be closed once more. It's looking that bad. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 11, 2021 7:12:01 GMT -5
With heavily vaxxed populations, cases mean squat. It's hospitalizations, ICU and deaths that are important. After all, the point of the vax is that breakthroughs are not thst severe. Tank....normal was the good old days....two years ago. The new normal is masks, sanitizer and booster shots.  |
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Post by Polarice on Dec 11, 2021 8:59:23 GMT -5
I'll be getting the booster when I get the chance, probably after the Holidays, however, this will be the last time I take it. If they offer one next year, with the flu shot then I'll take it then, other than that no more special trips for something that might or might not work.
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Post by PTH on Dec 11, 2021 15:11:28 GMT -5
With heavily vaxxed populations, cases mean squat. It's hospitalizations, ICU and deaths that are important. After all, the point of the vax is that breakthroughs are not thst severe. Tank....normal was the good old days....two years ago. The new normal is masks, sanitizer and booster shots. The new variant has significant vaccine and immune evasion ability. We're in a similar situation to March 2020, only with a beat-up healthcare sector and a population that won't listen anymore. So before governments can do anything drastic, things have to get visibly ugly. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 11, 2021 15:28:57 GMT -5
From my yv doctor understanding....
The booster tricks the body into thonking it's inected and it releases a torrent of anti-bodies. Then within a month, back down it goes. Rinse and repeat.
From what i understand then is that the body has memory immune where it responds over a short time and what the booster does is have a larger presence of anti-bodies to fight off the first "contact".
That also means that "cases" mean squat because your fighting it off. Given that the 1.2 million people study couldn't find meaningful difference post booster for under 40 also tells us that the younger one is, the faster you can fight off the virus.
I love to get the TRUTH of what is happening and our real picture instead of the "social issue" one where the "elite" are directing us like f***** cattle to a "desired outcome". This shouldn't be up to all of us to become virologist to know what is happening and what the issues are. We should be informed in order to make our own decisions, not treated like some kind of mindless cattle.
On a personal note, i make no apologies for absolutely hating politicians, talking head "experts" and of course, pure garbage media. There was cause and now, absolutely irrevocable evidence of what and how they think of us.
Anywho....it's up to every one of us to inform ourselves and make our own decisions. Not "twitter" or uncle Bob or Cranky informed. But real information from either reading up and understanding AND your doctors advice.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 11, 2021 15:33:17 GMT -5
With heavily vaxxed populations, cases mean squat. It's hospitalizations, ICU and deaths that are important. After all, the point of the vax is that breakthroughs are not thst severe. Tank....normal was the good old days....two years ago. The new normal is masks, sanitizer and booster shots. The new variant has significant vaccine and immune evasion ability. We're in a similar situation to March 2020, only with a beat-up healthcare sector and a population that won't listen anymore. So before governments can do anything drastic, things have to get visibly ugly. No it doesn't PTH. Just wait and see instead of coming to a conclussion. If you are concerned, fine but you can't make a broad statement because WE DON'T ENOUGH ABOUT THE OMICRON variant yet. BTW...if you want a bigger picture then what you get on the media... Very tough reading but thorough...and what the "experts" read. www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02249-2/fulltext |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 11, 2021 15:45:56 GMT -5
The booster will be available at Shoppers drug mart in Ottawa starting Monday for those of us who were born before the leafs last won the cup (the booster is for 50+ but couldn't resist)
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Post by PTH on Dec 11, 2021 18:33:51 GMT -5
The new variant has significant vaccine and immune evasion ability. We're in a similar situation to March 2020, only with a beat-up healthcare sector and a population that won't listen anymore. So before governments can do anything drastic, things have to get visibly ugly. No it doesn't PTH. Just wait and see instead of coming to a conclussion. If you are concerned, fine but you can't make a broad statement because WE DON'T ENOUGH ABOUT THE OMICRON variant yet. The pre-prints and research I'm reading is the source of my conclusion. The researchers and doctors I trust are deeply worried. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 12, 2021 0:57:46 GMT -5
No it doesn't PTH. Just wait and see instead of coming to a conclussion. If you are concerned, fine but you can't make a broad statement because WE DON'T ENOUGH ABOUT THE OMICRON variant yet.
The pre-prints and research I'm reading is the source of my conclusion. The researchers and doctors I trust are deeply worried. So let's see it. Is it submitted to the Lancet or somebody's opinion? Because the study I linked was a 1.2 MILLION people study and widely recognized as thorough and factual with the world's leading authorities and reviewers. So let's see the facts and studies that Omicron is what you claim it is. |
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Post by PTH on Dec 12, 2021 2:07:59 GMT -5
The pre-prints and research I'm reading is the source of my conclusion. The researchers and doctors I trust are deeply worried. So let's see it. Is it submitted to the Lancet or somebody's opinion? Because the study I linked was a 1.2 MILLION people study and widely recognized as thorough and factual with the world's leading authorities and reviewers. So let's see the facts and studies that Omicron is what you claim it is. /photo/1 Also, see the first comments explaining how it only seems mild because the first infected weren't representative. Plenty of other research showing that without a 3d dose, Omicron spread at 1.8x to 3x the speed of Delta. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 12, 2021 3:36:03 GMT -5
So let's see it. Is it submitted to the Lancet or somebody's opinion? Because the study I linked was a 1.2 MILLION people study and widely recognized as thorough and factual with the world's leading authorities and reviewers. So let's see the facts and studies that Omicron is what you claim it is. /photo/1 Also, see the first comments explaining how it only seems mild because the first infected weren't representative. Plenty of other research showing that without a 3d dose, Omicron spread at 1.8x to 3x the speed of Delta. I asked for a peer reviewed studdy on a major platform ....,I got twitter. That's NOT a study, it's an opinion....on Twitter. I've already made my opinion clear, take the booster if you want too. Take it every month. The issue here is anyone making claims of how infectious/deadly Omincron is based on very few facts. Wait and see.... |
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Post by PTH on Dec 12, 2021 3:42:05 GMT -5
/photo/1 Also, see the first comments explaining how it only seems mild because the first infected weren't representative. Plenty of other research showing that without a 3d dose, Omicron spread at 1.8x to 3x the speed of Delta. I asked for a peer reviewed studdy on a major platform ....,I got twitter. That's NOT a study, it's an opinion....on Twitter. I've already made my opinion clear, take the booster if you want too. Take it every month. The issue here is anyone making claims of how infectious/deadly Omincron is based on very few facts. Wait and see.... There isn't peer reviewed anything when the facts on the ground are a few weeks old. But there are tons of researchers sharing, and we can listen in. What they all agree on is usually the most likely outcome. "wait and see" is what Legault is doing and it will cost lives. Ontario is at least starting to take some action (3d dose, prolonging school break). |
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Post by PTH on Dec 12, 2021 3:49:58 GMT -5
Still, here's a pre-print:https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.11.21266068v2.full.pdf
One sentence summary: Analysis of routine surveillance data from South Africa
suggests that, in contrast to the Beta and Delta, the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2
demonstrates substantial population-level evidence for evasion of immunity from
prior infection.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 12, 2021 3:59:07 GMT -5
I asked for a peer reviewed studdy on a major platform ....,I got twitter. That's NOT a study, it's an opinion....on Twitter. I've already made my opinion clear, take the booster if you want too. Take it every month. The issue here is anyone making claims of how infectious/deadly Omincron is based on very few facts. Wait and see.... There isn't peer reviewed anything when the facts on the ground are a few weeks old. But there are tons of researchers sharing, and we can listen in. What they all agree on is usually the most likely outcome. "wait and see" is what Legault is doing and it will cost lives. Ontario is at least starting to take some action (3d dose, prolonging school break). Exactly. The facts ARE a few weeks old and the conditions in SA are not fully applicable to Canada. So no claims can be made.....but soon we will know. There WILL be a big spike even without Omicron simply because breakthroughs need a high dose covid enviroment. In medical parlance, "viral,loads". Homes, parties, dense gatherings will be the norm over the next 3 weeks so expect a big spike because ther enviroments will be swimming in virus in the air and on surfaces. Plus whoever is unvaxxed will now be sure to get a high covid dose. BTW..there are studies out on Omicron. I just read one a few hours ago and it's overdosing on speculation and assumptions. There is another hockey site that you are aware of and there are long, ongoing discussion section since the beginning of covid. It also has a few virologist and MDs. |
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Post by jkr on Dec 12, 2021 10:31:13 GMT -5
I asked for a peer reviewed studdy on a major platform ....,I got twitter. That's NOT a study, it's an opinion....on Twitter. I've already made my opinion clear, take the booster if you want too. Take it every month. The issue here is anyone making claims of how infectious/deadly Omincron is based on very few facts. Wait and see.... There isn't peer reviewed anything when the facts on the ground are a few weeks old. But there are tons of researchers sharing, and we can listen in. What they all agree on is usually the most likely outcome. "wait and see" is what Legault is doing and it will cost lives. Ontario is at least starting to take some action (3d dose, prolonging school break). Just a note on schools in Ontario. I came across a couple of articles that state the province has no plans yet to extend the break. Here is one from Dec. 10: ipolitics.ca/2021/12/10/ontario-wont-prolong-winter-break-for-students-says-top-doc/ |
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Post by PTH on Dec 12, 2021 16:14:53 GMT -5
There isn't peer reviewed anything when the facts on the ground are a few weeks old. But there are tons of researchers sharing, and we can listen in. What they all agree on is usually the most likely outcome. "wait and see" is what Legault is doing and it will cost lives. Ontario is at least starting to take some action (3d dose, prolonging school break). Just a note on schools in Ontario. I came across a couple of articles that state the province has no plans yet to extend the break. Here is one from Dec. 10: ipolitics.ca/2021/12/10/ontario-wont-prolong-winter-break-for-students-says-top-doc/Thanks for correcting me, since I neither live in Ontario nor know any kids in school it's not something I'd have read up about. So I guess my esteem for the Ford government just went down a bit. |
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Post by PTH on Dec 15, 2021 1:45:20 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 16, 2021 23:53:25 GMT -5
Omicron is dominating Kingston right now ... it's spreading like a brush fire ... ever since they reopened the schools there have been several outbreaks a week, that sometimes turn into several outbreaks a day ... total number of school outbreaks is 31 ... today saw 3 or 4 more schools declare outbreaks ... Queen's U represent numerous cases in the city ... they hosted a national rugby tournament, and are now responsible for spreading the virus onto other teams who, in turn, have brought it back to their schools ... the university has gone to remote learning, as they try to get a grip on the spread of the virus on campus ... one outbreak each at CFB Kingston and the Royal Military College (RMC) ... emergency measures are now in place, with more restrictions to come ... as of Nov 1st, we had ~ 75 cases ... as of today the case count soared past 1,200, which is significant for a city of 124,000 ... what was once the provincial pandemic safe bubble for 2 years, Kingston has now become the Ontario epicentre for the virus ...
Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 17, 2021 9:24:45 GMT -5
Speaking as one double-vaxxed. Deaths are the most important stats. Hospitalization/ICU stats next. While mitigating the severity of the symptoms, the jabs prevent neither infection nor spread. There has been only 1 Omicron death reported worldwide so far. Isn't that GOOD news? Perhaps the virus is becoming weaker in order to survive a la the common cold....or the flu whose hospitalization/death stats we've come to accept over the decades. One can hope.... Beef up the early treatment therapeutics supply. That makes the most sense to me...at the moment.  |
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Post by PTH on Dec 17, 2021 12:59:36 GMT -5
Speaking as one double-vaxxed. Double-vaxxed counts as unvaxxed at this point. The new variant has serious vaccine avoidance. Deaths are also a lagging indicator, cases and ICUs are the least-lagging ones, the best was the wastewater analysis that Montreal has discontinued. They will come. There is no reason to think this will happen other than through massive death of the people most vulnerable. Immunity is acquired at a population level through natural selection. Coronaviruses mutate too quickly for enduring immunity through either vaccines or infection, unless there is yet another breakthrough in vaccine science to cover a whole category of viruses. Things are happening pretty much as I expected, and weak provincial reactions aren't going to help as much as they should. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 17, 2021 13:26:01 GMT -5
Very discouraging ... Omicron is now the dominant variant in the Kingston area ... Kingston sees highest case rate
of COVID-19 in CanadaAuthor of the article:Brigid Goulem
Publishing date:Dec 16, 2021 • 19 hours ago • 3 minute read
Article contentKingston, Frontenac and Lennox and Addington Public Health is currently experiencing the highest case rate of COVID-19 in Canada since the onset of the pandemic. In a media call on Thursday, medical officer of health for KFL&A, Dr. Piotr Oglaza, said the region now has 475 cases of COVID-19 per 100,000 people, which is the highest case rate yet seen in Canada. “(It) is unfortunately a new peak for us. And we’ve been setting these new peaks almost on a daily basis,” Oglaza said. “When we look at how we compare to the rest of the country, the rest of the province, we are the highest in the country, and the highest ever case rate reported by any public health unit over the course of this pandemic.” “Our active case rate is more than double any other public health unit in this province,” he said. “And this is (the) impact of the Omicron variant as it started to spread in this region and is now on track to being the dominant strain of COVID-19.” More ... |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 18, 2021 8:06:46 GMT -5
Speaking as one double-vaxxed. Deaths are the most important stats. Hospitalization/ICU stats next. While mitigating the severity of the symptoms, the jabs prevent neither infection nor spread. There has been only 1 Omicron death reported worldwide so far. Isn't that GOOD news? Perhaps the virus is becoming weaker in order to survive a la the common cold....or the flu whose hospitalization/death stats we've come to accept over the decades. One can hope.... Beef up the early treatment therapeutics supply. That makes the most sense to me...at the moment. You're right in thst cases don't count. Hospitilizations/ICU/deaths are the real metrics. If Omicron is more infectious and less deadly, the case count will skyrocket but mean very little. Don't buy into the fear porn. We know that it's more transmissable but it appears do far to be far less deadly. Unfortunately South Africa is not a direct comparison to us and we are far, far more vaccinated then them. 26% vs 82%. Plus the vast majority of the most vulnerable are fully vaccinated. Unfortunately the garbage media is back to their fear porn and politicians are reacting. This is really wait and see. Don't drop any precautions but...wait and see. |
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