Ukraine

[Cranky]

Takes a bow....bows to the left....bows to the right....

This is an integral part of my heritage and indeed, my fathers village was born as a mountain retreat against the Ottomans. I own a house that the land title goes back to 1821 and the "new house" was built 1899. The first two letters of the headstone are my grandfathers name...and my name.

There are really ugly stories in my family of what happened in 1821, but it's ugliness was born from living like slaves for 400 years. Imagine the Nazis as not only genocidal, but as barbaric slave owners. What the Greeks did to their master and occupiers was payback...and payback is a biatch.

PROUD of my ancient and modern ancestors.

This isn't really a deep dive into the fight for freedom. but it's relevance to today...

Imagine a poor nation on the edge of Europe. Its people, Orthodox Christians, have an ancient history, but scant experience of sovereignty and self-rule. It has until recently been a vassal state — the western marchland — of a large, authoritarian empire. The country is riven by regional divisions. Its traditional elites are factious, fractious, corrupt, and self-dealing. Some of them remain loyal, or at any rate beholden, to the old empire — which is much wealthier, has a much larger army, and has just invaded to reassert control.

As the invaders besiege and lay waste to cities, many residents take flight. Their sheer number creates a massive refugee crisis. The invading army has a sizable numerical advantage, but it proves to be poorly led and provisioned. As a result, it struggles to translate its superiority into a clear victory. But neither can the defenders hope to win outright. They are simply too few and too poorly armed and financed to do more than hold out.

Both sides invite outside help, hoping to tilt the balance. The empire calls upon the military assistance of an obstreperous, technically subject but in practice semi-autonomous province on its southern border. The young nation seeks aid from the other great powers of its day, countries with which it asserts ideological affinity. Alas, the moment is not propitious. The period’s great liberal power is sympathetic, but loath to risk war. The largest power on the continent is hesitant to sever its historically close economic ties with the invader. A few volunteer fighters trickle in, while some financial assistance and weapons deliveries are arranged. But great powers decline to intervene directly. The fighting and misery drag on.

This, of course, is a summary of the present Russo-Ukrainian war. But it also describes the Greek War of Independence, fought from 1821 to 1827. Many commentators have described the current war as a transformative moment that will reshape European political realities. As Mark Mazower shows in his masterful new account, it was the Greek revolution that helped create these realities in the first place.

Mazower’s contention is that, in the course of fighting for freedom from the Ottoman Empire, the Greeks wrought a revolution not only for themselves, but also — by galvanizing international public opinion and bringing it to bear, for the first time, on interstate affairs — in the practice of modern politics, diplomacy, and war. The many resonances between Mazower’s account and today’s news make his case all the more convincing.

History does not offer pat lessons — but sometimes it presents analogies that help us think through the challenges of our day. Mazower’s history of the Greek revolution shows how a localized but highly evocative war can end up shaping its wider historical moment by seizing the world’s attention and drawing in outside powers. Reading it in dialogue with the present invites us to imagine the possible outcomes of creeping Western intervention and growing Ukrainian cohesion occasioned by the current war.

More...

warontherocks.com/2022/04/revisiting-the-greek-war-of-independence-while-ukraine-fights-for-its-own/

[Cranky]

Oh those clever Russians. They are going to outsmart and be better Nazis!

Why build silly stationary ovens to hide the genocide when you can put them on wheels and take them on site. Even better, you can hide the evidence of atrocities right where it occurred.

Aren't they clever them "nazi-hunter" Russians? Tell me again why Ukraine gave up their 1700 nukes?

Expect them to be used widely when Mariupol falls. Under the guise of "humane" and "health" reasons.

nypost.com/2022/02/24/russia-has-mobile-crematoriums-that-evaporate-the-dead-report/

[jkr]

I found it odd that the article talks about Russians cremating their own to hide casualty counts without mentioning the obvious - using these things to hide the the true scope of civilian deaths.

EDIT: just saw the date of the article - Feb 24. There were obviously no civilian casualties but based on past history with Russia, the situation now can't be surprising.

[Cranky]

Apr 6, 2022 16:52:46 GMT -5 jkr said:

I found it odd that the article talks about Russians cremating their own to hide casualty counts without mentioning the obvious - using these things to hide the the true scope of civilian deaths.

Russian News: "Vladimir Puta is a humanitarian. That is why he sent his cremating trucks to assist the civilians on their quest to heaven."

Funny how I never stopped using the word "commie" and was scolded by the mirror gazing enlightened that i was stuck in 1970. Welcome to 2022.

[Cranky]

Umm....gee, wonder why I became bitter and sarcastic after the first week of "sanctions". They were and are "lollipoops" to shut us up.

€1bn for Ukraine, €35bn for Russian energy: top EU diplomat calls out funding gap.

The EU has given €35bn (£29.1bn) to Vladimir Putin for energy supplies since the start of his war and €1bn to fund Ukraine’s defence, the union’s top diplomat said.

Josep Borrell, the EU’s foreign policy chief, made the comparison in a characteristically blunt speech to the European parliament as he urged Europe to send more arms to Ukraine to help end the war.

Putin’s daughter Katerina Tikhonova, an academic at Moscow State University and acrobatic rock’n’roll dancer.
Putin’s daughters targeted in US sanctions against Russia
Read more
“We have to continue arming Ukraine. We need less rounds of applause and more assistance,” he said. The EU had pledged €1bn in military aid for Ukraine, he said, which “might seem a lot” but “€1bn is what we pay Putin every day for the energy he provides us. Since the beginning of the war we have given him €35bn. Compare that to the €1bn we have given to Ukraine in arms and weapons.”

He made the comments as the EU debated a fifth round of sanctions against Russia, with a ban on coal imports worth €4bn from the country expected to be announced soon.

EU work on sanctions intensified as officials reacted to reports from Bucha and other Ukrainian towns where civilians have been murdered, tortured, raped and abused.

More....

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/06/1bn-for-ukraine-35bn-for-russian-energy-eu-chief-calls-out-funding-gap?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[jkr]

Apr 6, 2022 17:06:30 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Apr 6, 2022 16:52:46 GMT -5 jkr said:

I found it odd that the article talks about Russians cremating their own to hide casualty counts without mentioning the obvious - using these things to hide the the true scope of civilian deaths.

Russian News: "Vladimir Puta is a humanitarian. That is why he sent his cremating trucks to assist the civilians on their quest to heaven."

Funny how I never stopped using the word "commie" and was scolded by the mirror gazing enlightened that i was stuck in 1970. Welcome to 2022.

My dad was a WW II vet that used the word Hun to describe Germans. He would get a reminder from one of us - hey Dad, it's the 21st century. Didnt stop him though.

[Cranky]

Apr 6, 2022 17:14:45 GMT -5 jkr said:

Apr 6, 2022 17:06:30 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Russian News: "Vladimir Puta is a humanitarian. That is why he sent his cremating trucks to assist the civilians on their quest to heaven."

Funny how I never stopped using the word "commie" and was scolded by the mirror gazing enlightened that i was stuck in 1970. Welcome to 2022.

My dad was a WW II vet that used the word Hun to describe Germans. He would get a reminder from one of us - hey Dad, it's the 21st century. Didnt stop him though.

My dad would like your dad! My father didn't hate any German he met post war. He had plenty of it during the war and it exhausted him. Later in life, last several years, when I went over to Greece, sometimes we would sit on the porch in the afternoon and he would recall his war past. I heard it a hundred times before and I never got tired of it. He was proud, angry and bitter at the same time. RIP

The more this goes on, the more the Russian will be identified with nazi Germany.

I don't believe that 83% of Russians are pro Putin genocidal lover or even accept that. But I do believe that there is a majority of them with probably 90% in the older generation and maybe 50% in the younger generation. We mustn't forget that it has been a continuous line of victimhood and nationalism fed to them that went into overdrive in Stalins time.

[Cranky]

In the previous thread on Putas Final Solution I was speculating on it's use in Mariupol....not anymore.

[Cranky]

Talking about twitter....I LOVE the Russian trolls. I wonder if they are volunteers or paid trolls. I know for a fact that when I had my military site, we were getting a lot of attention from Chinese propaganda mills. "John", "Mike" and "George" and other English names that were running 24/7 from the same IP couldn't escape my routing software. That was early 2000's, they are even more numerous now.

The upside is that one can block 125,000 accounts on twitter and a quick "FU troll" and blocked only takes a few seconds.

[jkr]

Germany won't slow down or delay the closure of its remaining nuclear plants even though it would make them less dependent upon Russian oil and gas. The article also points out that Germany is still buying Russian coal.

www.bnnbloomberg.ca/scholz-shoots-down-appeal-to-reverse-germany-s-nuclear-exit-1.1748441

[Cranky]

Apr 8, 2022 5:58:45 GMT -5 jkr said:

Germany won't slow down or delay the closure of its remaining nuclear plants even though it would make them less dependent upon Russian oil and gas. The article also points out that Germany is still buying Russian coal.

www.bnnbloomberg.ca/scholz-shoots-down-appeal-to-reverse-germany-s-nuclear-exit-1.1748441

Oh please...profits are more important then people. Even a child understands that right now, Germany is doing their part of the Russian invasion....by financing it.

Some of the old German politicians are deeply imbedded in the Russian ass gas and oil industry. Particularly former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder who is sooo deep, he needs a snorkel.

[Willie Dog]

Grandmothers rock!!!

[Disgruntled70sHab]

"Putin definitely lost the war, and he'll be gone soon."

[Disgruntled70sHab]

... update ...

[Cranky]

I've argued a lot about drones are the future of warfare. Including challenging and insulting a general that he's still discussing 1990 warfare strategy in 2022 and MOST of it is in musket territory.

It started with what I thought was possible in of all places, a movie and a variety show....and playing with a drone.

Movie....is this possible?



Yes. And vastly more able then we imagine. VASTLY MORE CAPABLE. Scary level and it "opened" even more engineering solutions to kill.




My world of product development and production means that I see infantry and armour as a problem to be eliminated by the right product mix. I don't care about 1990's military strategy, I only see a problem that must be solved. Of course this sounds so "inhuman" as if what, dying from a tank shell is humane...then a drone running you down?

Here is an article and you are going to see a lot more of them going forward.

The Russian military may soon experience a violent and tech laden insurgency the likes of which it has never endured — in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, or in Syria — and against which it may not prevail.

The Ukrainian military did not collapse the way Moscow likely expected. Instead, it proved adaptive and creative in battling Russian forces, increasingly through asymmetric means. If Russia seeks a permanent occupation of the Donbas region or continues with the kind of urban warfare currently underway in Mariupol, Ukraine will continue to resist asymmetrically. This will lead to an increasing reliance on established insurgent tactics. Small weaponized Ukrainian-made drones have appeared on the battlefield, but I believe repurposed commercial off-the-shelf drones will play an increasing role. Much like in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, explosively formed penetrators, vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices, and roadside bombs will join the battlefield in a big way. However, this insurgency will mature in weeks, not years, and the Russian forces are not prepared.

More....

warontherocks.com/2022/04/of-roadside-bombs-and-drones-putins-looming-insurgency-problem/

#4BladesoftheApocolypse

[Disgruntled70sHab]

... Boris Johnson is in Kiev ...

[Willie Dog]

Apr 9, 2022 11:12:48 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

... Boris Johnson is in Kiev ...

That is so cool.

[Cranky]

I'm getting worn down by anger and disgust.

I can't fathom the destruction of an entire country and we don't do much more then the minimum. Puta prances around with impunity, laughing at the weak kneed west and planning his next move. The west is scared and complaint little biatches that will trade Ukrainian lives for comfort and peace.....a peace that will never be. Just like there was "peace" in 1938.

He will control energy and food....and any puddle thinking oxygen waster who doesn't think he will weaponize this to destabilize the west should just go back to watching the latest piddle on the Kardasians.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Apr 9, 2022 15:42:35 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Apr 9, 2022 11:12:48 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

... Boris Johnson is in Kiev ...

That is so cool.

Johnson has been taking it, big time, in the press for is inaction WRT Ukraine ... it may be a photo op, but he's showing more leadership with Zelenskyy then most of the other world leaders have shown thus far ... mind you, Johnson has been a lot more active, of late, as this visit suggests ...

Cheers.

[jkr]

What is really worrying me now is the French presidential election that begins tomorrow. If the French electorate is actually loony enough to elect LePen how will the European alliance, such as it was, hold up?

[Cranky]

Apr 9, 2022 18:06:34 GMT -5 jkr said:

What is really worrying me now is the French presidential election that begins tomorrow. If the French electorate is actually loony enough to elect LePen how will the European alliance, such as it was, hold up?

It won't happen. Every election cycle the French media start an "oh nooo, LePen will win" to whip up votes.

I despise LePen even though I don't agree with Macron on many subjects. There is no real choice when the other choice is garbage.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

... live updates from Day 43 ...

[jkr]

An account of Harper's efforts to have Ukraine admitted to NATO back in 2008. Blocked by Germany and France.

www.cp24.com/news/mackay-recalls-the-french-german-nato-no-to-ukraine-that-zelenskyy-denounced-1.5855397

[Cranky]

Apr 9, 2022 20:47:04 GMT -5 jkr said:

An account of Harper's efforts to have Ukraine admitted to NATO back in 2008. Blocked by Germany and France.

www.cp24.com/news/mackay-recalls-the-french-german-nato-no-to-ukraine-that-zelenskyy-denounced-1.5855397

Great find jkr.

Harper was "my guy" but he failed when it came to spending on our protection.

I'm going through Russian history again. Post war and looking at every major event with new eyes. From ww2 to Berlin wall to the fall of that wall. Then through Putas actions recently,

New eyes are seeing the same thing the old eyes saw.

Nothing good to report.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Apr 9, 2022 20:47:04 GMT -5 jkr said:

An account of Harper's efforts to have Ukraine admitted to NATO back in 2008. Blocked by Germany and France.

www.cp24.com/news/mackay-recalls-the-french-german-nato-no-to-ukraine-that-zelenskyy-denounced-1.5855397

A good read, JKR ... made me research this a bit more ... from January of this year ...

Why are Germany and France at odds
with the Anglosphere over how to
handle Russia?

Analysis: Differing views over Russia within Nato alliance
resurface in Ukraine crisis

Patrick Wintour Diplomatic Editor

Wed 26 Jan 2022 05.00 GMT

Can the western alliance against Russia over its buildup of troops on the Ukrainian border hold together? It is a question that politicians and diplomats are increasingly grappling with amid fears that Germany and, to a lesser extent, France are in danger of dividing from the US and the UK, not only over how to respond to any future Russian act of aggression in Ukraine, but also in their assessment of the imminence of the threat.

Every effort is being made to minimise the differences within the Nato alliance, including through regular calls such as the one led by Joe Biden on Monday, but they may be impossible to avoid since they reflect not just different short-term assessments on intelligence, but a deep fissure going back decades about what Germany and France, as opposed to the Anglosphere, regard as the best way to handle Russia.

Advertisement

France, looking at the same intelligence provided by the CIA, does not see an imminent invasion, or a gathering of forces equipped to invade in the next three weeks – an assessment shared by the best Ukrainian defence analysts.

In Britain, the foreign secretary, Liz Truss, has been openly critical of Germany for leaving itself so dependent on Russia for energy, and Berlin’s recent refusal to allow Estonia to send German-manufactured arms to Ukraine. The idea of Germany providing weapons to be used against Russia for the first time since the second world war is anathema. Speaking in Berlin on Tuesday, the German chancellor, Olaf Scholz, defended the decision, saying it was rooted “in the whole development of the past years and decades”.

link

[Cranky]

Can someone please explain to me why volunteers need to have social media pages or have to post their pictures online?

Do they think they are on some sexy safari? Or that they are modeling the latest kill wear?

Maybe I'm be old fashion but if I travel 5,000 miles to kill an enemy, I wont have any nightmares about it but I certainly would not get on twitter to show my sexy side. Or ask for money (because it's the easiest thing in the world for local Ukrainian associations to help out). Or tweet my latest kill count.

My father "instructions" if I ever had to go to war "hide in plain sight because everybody can be your enemy". This was born from his experience when neighbors gave up their friends for a piece of bread. Not that we have become any more civilized now when you hear stories of executions, rapes and pedophiles.

Back to twitter and stupid....take this one for example....has she ever considered that if she was captured, she would be raped and murdered and it would be celebrated by Russians? Her face would be propaganda special on Russian tv. Effin MORON

[jkr]

Apr 9, 2022 18:11:36 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Apr 9, 2022 18:06:34 GMT -5 jkr said:

What is really worrying me now is the French presidential election that begins tomorrow. If the French electorate is actually loony enough to elect LePen how will the European alliance, such as it was, hold up?

It won't happen. Every election cycle the French media start an "oh nooo, LePen will win" to whip up votes.

I despise LePen even though I don't agree with Macron on many subjects. There is no real choice when the other choice is garbage.

Will be Macron and LePen in the runoff in 2 weeks.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61061230

[Willie Dog]

Apr 11, 2022 6:04:53 GMT -5 jkr said:

Apr 9, 2022 18:11:36 GMT -5 Cranky said:

It won't happen. Every election cycle the French media start an "oh nooo, LePen will win" to whip up votes.

I despise LePen even though I don't agree with Macron on many subjects. There is no real choice when the other choice is garbage.

Will be Macron and LePen in the runoff in 2 weeks.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61061230

They both blow... not a fan of Boris but at least he had the cojones to go to kyiv... where are the rest of the puss cakes including Jussie

Canada adds $8B to defence spending, what a joke... the Singh effect... let's spend 100 billion on oats and birkenstocks for every child in Canada... 🤯

[Disgruntled70sHab]

... the ripple effect? ...