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Post by habsorbed on Oct 9, 2022 11:16:16 GMT -5
A training camp full of intrigue with so many new faces. But the than Guhle, Cole and Dach, not sure there was much to get excited about. X looks better than expected but he's not going to be a game changer
Primeau, Barron, Harris were big disappointments in my eyes. Very concerned about Barron, as I thought he looked great in the short span I saw him last year.
As for the vets, same OLD, same OLD. I would love to see the last of Hoff, Drouin, and Armia.
Our defence is a train wreck. It was going to be tough even with Eddy, but without him we really have no legit top 4 dmen, only some aspiring ones.
"With the first overall pick in the 2023 NHL Draft, the Montreal Canadiens are proud to select from the ________ __________, __________ ____________"
I feel for Marty.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 9, 2022 14:13:26 GMT -5
A couple of D on waivers for purposes of being assigned to Laval. They still need to send a couple down to get to 7, but a lot of young guys still around (and Leskinen who I think makes it). It is still going to be a scary D, at least until those young guys get more acclimated.
And up front, with all the injuries and line juggling all camp, who knows what the lines will look like come Wednesday.
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Post by folatre on Oct 9, 2022 14:28:23 GMT -5
Leskinen as the extra d-man in the press box? That makes sense since I would not be inclined to allocate him much ice time in Laval. Frankly, he really struggled in the preseason.
By any metric, Guhle clearly made the team. And Xhekaj was solid enough that he probably deserves some games until either he proves he cannot handle it or Edmundson returns from injury.
It seems like Harris and Barron would benefit from playing major roles with the Rocket.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 9, 2022 14:43:04 GMT -5
A training camp full of intrigue with so many new faces. But the than Guhle, Cole and Dach, not sure there was much to get excited about. X looks better than expected but he's not going to be a game changer Primeau, Barron, Harris were big disappointments in my eyes. Very concerned about Barron, as I thought he looked great in the short span I saw him last year. As for the vets, same OLD, same OLD. I would love to see the last of Hoff, Drouin, and Armia. Our defence is a train wreck. It was going to be tough even with Eddy, but without him we really have no legit top 4 dmen, only some aspiring ones. "With the first overall pick in the 2023 NHL Draft, the Montreal Canadiens are proud to select from the ________ __________, __________ ____________" I feel for Marty. I'm pretty excited about Beck and Mesar (and Hutson too, the way his year is starting). |
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 9, 2022 16:19:30 GMT -5
Marty has managements support and they are the architects of this so Marty will be around when these kids are ready to go
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 10, 2022 10:29:53 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 10, 2022 11:03:24 GMT -5
So that means Guhle, Harris, Slafkovsky and Xhekaj all make the opening night roster barring any moves today.
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Post by folatre on Oct 10, 2022 13:24:08 GMT -5
I imagine Harris' versatility helped him since, otherwise, it could be argued that his body of preseason work suggests time in the AHL could benefit him.
I see that Armia was placed on IR. And it would not be surprising at all if another (candidates literally abound) vet winger is a healthy scratch on opening night.
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Post by Cranky on Oct 10, 2022 13:54:04 GMT -5
If X, Guhle, Harris become legitimate top 6 THIS season, it's huge.
Slaf and Dach become middle 6, it's enormous. Top 6, it's unbelievable.
4 rookies and Dach breakout means as much as having a 100 point season.
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Post by habsorbed on Oct 10, 2022 14:14:44 GMT -5
There's certainly hope!
Today's lines at practice have Monahan on the wing with Dach at centre, and, GET THIS, on the other wing were Drouin and Hoffman. Is it possible one of those two will be a healthy scratch for the opener? Wow! That would be a huge improvement and message to the free-loaders. Next move will be to put one or both of them ion waivers. Like I said there's hope.
Somewhat confusing is I see Mailloux is still on the 23 man roster. I'm assuming there is some rule explaining the reason for that?
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 10, 2022 15:09:40 GMT -5
There's certainly hope! Today's lines at practice have Monahan on the wing with Dach at centre, and, GET THIS, on the other wing were Drouin and Hoffman. Is it possible one of those two will be a healthy scratch for the opener? Wow! That would be a huge improvement and message to the free-loaders. Next move will be to put one or both of them ion waivers. Like I said there's hope. Somewhat confusing is I see Mailloux is still on the 23 man roster. I'm assuming there is some rule explaining the reason for that? Nwt posted in the prospects thread tgat Logan is going to London |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 10, 2022 15:29:33 GMT -5
Xhekaj being sent to Laval is a “paper transaction” to be cap and roster compliant. Byron is going on LTIR and Arber will be back with the team tomorrow.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 10, 2022 15:30:42 GMT -5
There's certainly hope! Today's lines at practice have Monahan on the wing with Dach at centre, and, GET THIS, on the other wing were Drouin and Hoffman. Is it possible one of those two will be a healthy scratch for the opener? Wow! That would be a huge improvement and message to the free-loaders. Next move will be to put one or both of them ion waivers. Like I said there's hope. Somewhat confusing is I see Mailloux is still on the 23 man roster. I'm assuming there is some rule explaining the reason for that? They are waiting for final medical clearance on Logan before they are allowed to assign him to London. Sounds like it should be soon. |
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Post by habsorbed on Oct 10, 2022 16:54:31 GMT -5
There's certainly hope! Today's lines at practice have Monahan on the wing with Dach at centre, and, GET THIS, on the other wing were Drouin and Hoffman. Is it possible one of those two will be a healthy scratch for the opener? Wow! That would be a huge improvement and message to the free-loaders. Next move will be to put one or both of them ion waivers. Like I said there's hope. Somewhat confusing is I see Mailloux is still on the 23 man roster. I'm assuming there is some rule explaining the reason for that? They are waiting for final medical clearance on Logan before they are allowed to assign him to London. Sounds like it should be soon. Tx1 Hopefully he gets a full season there. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 10, 2022 16:59:48 GMT -5
They are waiting for final medical clearance on Logan before they are allowed to assign him to London. Sounds like it should be soon. Tx1 Hopefully he gets a full season there. Yes and no more fighting for him... |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 10, 2022 17:52:32 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Oct 10, 2022 18:10:12 GMT -5
There's certainly hope! Today's lines at practice have Monahan on the wing with Dach at centre, and, GET THIS, on the other wing were Drouin and Hoffman. Is it possible one of those two will be a healthy scratch for the opener? Wow! That would be a huge improvement and message to the free-loaders. Next move will be to put one or both of them ion waivers. Like I said there's hope. Somewhat confusing is I see Mailloux is still on the 23 man roster. I'm assuming there is some rule explaining the reason for that? When you have too many low-energy, skilled vets on the wing, there is just not going to be room for all of them. It would surprise me if management has not already told these guys the reality of the situation. And when Armia comes off IR, one of the redundant vet wingers will have to be waived (sent to Laval). The fourth line is not a logical place for guys that need an offensively focused role. For me the fourth line requires guys with a high compete level and even better if they can contribute on the PK. I have no idea which d-man will be in the press box. Maybe Kovacevic if Robidas and St. Louis think he needs a more practice reps to get acclimated to the defensive system. Or maybe if Kovacevic is ready then Harris could sit. |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 10, 2022 18:40:52 GMT -5
If X, Guhle, Harris become legitimate top 6 THIS season, it's huge. Slaf and Dach become middle 6, it's enormous. Top 6, it's unbelievable. 4 rookies and Dach breakout means as much as having a 100 point season. I realize you mean developmentally it’s worth 100 points, but We aren’t getting 60 points. All of what you said above could be true (this year or next) and we still will only get about 60 points. Why? We have Allen and Montebeault in net. They couldn’t stop a beach ball. |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Oct 10, 2022 19:28:21 GMT -5
All of what you said above could be true (this year or next) and we still will only get about 60 points. Why? We have Allen and Montebeault in net. They couldn’t stop a beach ball. But they could 'start' a lottery ball |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 11, 2022 10:28:58 GMT -5
All of what you said above could be true (this year or next) and we still will only get about 60 points. Why? We have Allen and Montebeault in net. They couldn’t stop a beach ball. But they could 'start' a lottery ball 😂 They could. But then the cycle continues Even if we get Bedard. We are not winning with two goalies allergic to hockey pucks in the net. The Price fiasco needs to be dealt with and not constantly punted down the line |
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Post by CentreHice on Oct 11, 2022 17:15:36 GMT -5
But they could 'start' a lottery ball 😂 They could. But then the cycle continues Even if we get Bedard. We are not winning with two goalies allergic to hockey pucks in the net. I'd rather have that kind of cycle for now...instead of the cycle in which the goalie bails out mediocre management/coaching/rosters and the team finishes in no-man's land, pick-wise. Eventually, yes, we will need a stellar #1 and a solid backup...but we need "the players" first...with the hope that management/coaching are competent. Tough pills to swallow for the next while.... IMO.  |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 11, 2022 18:53:00 GMT -5
I'd rather have that kind of cycle for now...instead of the cycle in which the goalie bails out mediocre management/coaching/rosters and the team finishes in no-man's land, pick-wise. Eventually, yes, we will need a stellar #1 and a solid backup...but we need "the players" first...with the hope that management/coaching are competent. Tough pills to swallow for the next while.... IMO. The Avs won last year with Darcy Kuemper in goal. Darcy freaking Kuemper. The Hawks won their first Cup with Antti Niemi in goal. I'd say goal is not going to be a concern 4 years from now. An elite dman....now that's the real concern. |
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Post by CentreHice on Oct 11, 2022 19:59:10 GMT -5
Yep. And you get the elite d-man by NOT having even a "Kuemper"....let alone a "Price" on his game. A great goalie on a mediocre team can create a mirage of management/coaching doing its job. I think that's the essence of the Berg era...and I'd like to not see a repeat decade. The next decade is certainly not starting out that way.  No offense to our goalies or any of our players. They do their very best. ps. I thought Keumper and Francouz played very well in the playoffs. And then you have guys like Rinne. Superb goalies on solid teams...just can't deliver in the show. Might Hellebuyck be in that category? |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 11, 2022 20:23:11 GMT -5
Yep. And you get the elite d-man by NOT having even a "Kuemper"....let alone a "Price" on his game. A great goalie on a mediocre team can create a mirage of management/coaching doing its job. I think that's the essence of the Berg era...and I'd like to not see a repeat decade. The next decade is certainly not starting out that way. No offense to our goalies or any of our players. They do their very best. ps. I thought Keumper and Francouz played very well in the playoffs. And then you have guys like Rinne. Superb goalies on solid teams...just can't deliver in the show. Might Hellebuyck be in that category? For every average goalie example , I can show you 10 stacked teams that got eliminated because of goaltending You build from the goalie out. He doesn’t have to be elite, no one said he had to be elite, but our goalies can’t stop 90% of the rubber they see. You CANT outscore that. Montreal certainly can’t outscore that. I’d argue we have the players right now. Caufield, Suzuki, Monahan, Dach, Anderson , Slafkovsky, … then on defense we have Guhle, and yes we do need at least one piece there. But in net?? There is nothing on the team now, or on the horizon. And given it takes a good 5 years post draft for goalies to come into their own (see Price, Carey) we better get on it so we have our goalie in his prime at the same time as our forwards |
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Post by folatre on Oct 11, 2022 21:30:58 GMT -5
In general terms, I agree with the point you make, Skilly. But I am not worried in the short-run (2022-24) because this team will not miss the playoffs because of goalie play. They will miss because the lineup will be full of kids and a bunch of vets who are not difference makers. Also, I think you are being a tad hard on Jake Allen. Allen is not anything more than a tandem guy, but he has never been worse than .905 in any season in his long career. And moreover, in a tandem setup on a good team adhering to a strong defensive system, Allen delivered a handful of seasons above .910, so it is not like he is a sieve in net.
Goalies are really hard to project. Primeau does not look like world beater, but I would not right him off just yet. Montreal played terrible in front of him this preseason and the penalty kill, in particular, was a joke. And maybe that kid at Ohio State or the other one (the Dane?) in Sweden are not prime prospects but they are worth watching. And I am sure management will be focusing on good candidates shaking loose from their current clubs because of cap issues, not enough starts to go around, and/or free agency.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 11, 2022 23:36:11 GMT -5
For every average goalie example , I can show you 10 stacked teams that got eliminated because of goaltending But if we looked at those teams that got eliminated because of goaltending (eg, Leafs recently) I could also point to other aspects they didn't have. In the Leafs case, they don't have an elite dman. (Besides having a Jonah called Matthews). AT least one elite centre, but if there's one elite and one just very good, that's usually enough. An elite dman is practically a necessity. The 06 Canes were one of the few teams without that, and they had Cam Ward with a streak and a lot of luck with opponent injuries. But one can often pull out champions whose goalie wasn't the Conn Smythe winner. You don't need elite goaltending to win the Cup. It doesn't hurt, for sure, but the examples given and probably more if I looked more closely, show that above average goaltending is all you need, if you have the other criteria. Even meh goalies can get hot for 20 games and provide that above average goaltending. Just don't give up bad goals that kills your team confidence. |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 12, 2022 12:46:31 GMT -5
For every average goalie example , I can show you 10 stacked teams that got eliminated because of goaltending But if we looked at those teams that got eliminated because of goaltending (eg, Leafs recently) I could also point to other aspects they didn't have. In the Leafs case, they don't have an elite dman. (Besides having a Jonah called Matthews). AT least one elite centre, but if there's one elite and one just very good, that's usually enough. An elite dman is practically a necessity. The 06 Canes were one of the few teams without that, and they had Cam Ward with a streak and a lot of luck with opponent injuries. But one can often pull out champions whose goalie wasn't the Conn Smythe winner. You don't need elite goaltending to win the Cup. It doesn't hurt, for sure, but the examples given and probably more if I looked more closely, show that above average goaltending is all you need, if you have the other criteria. Even meh goalies can get hot for 20 games and provide that above average goaltending. Just don't give up bad goals that kills your team confidence. So you are saying a 70 point defenseman who finished 11th in Norris voting is not elite? Teams would be crawling over each other to get him on their team |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 12, 2022 17:11:40 GMT -5
Reilly is a very good defenseman, but I don't think (IMO) that he quitereaches the definition of elite. BTW 70 points sounds so much better than the 68 he actually got. I'll give you that he's close though. Trouble with TO last year was they ran into a better team right off the top. One with better defensemen overall and a better goalie (Vas couldn't keep it up over the full playoffs though. Not one of his better postseason years).
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 12, 2022 17:55:34 GMT -5
So that means Guhle, Harris, Slafkovsky and Xhekaj all make the opening night roster barring any moves today. If, after 9 games it is determined that Slafkovsky needs more seasoning will he be sent down to Laval or back to Europe? If, after 9 games it is determined that Xhekaj needs more seasoning will he be sent down to Laval or back to Costco? |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 12, 2022 18:27:21 GMT -5
Reilly is a very good defenseman, but I don't think (IMO) that he quitereaches the definition of elite. BTW 70 points sounds so much better than the 68 he actually got. I'll give you that he's close though. Trouble with TO last year was they ran into a better team right off the top. One with better defensemen overall and a better goalie (Vas couldn't keep it up over the full playoffs though. Not one of his better postseason years). How many points did he get in 2018-2019? |
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