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Post by Tankdriver on Apr 10, 2023 10:17:02 GMT -5
Today's negative feeling...Washington wins the draft and gets Bedard.
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 10, 2023 12:02:16 GMT -5
Today's negative feeling...Washington wins the draft and gets Bedard. That would be grim. Altho better than Chicago getting it. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 10, 2023 12:39:37 GMT -5
If we don't win, I'd like to see the Canucks get him. They've never had a first overall pick and got screwed by lady luck (as usual) in the very first draft they were in when Buffalo got Gilbert Perreault and they got Dale Tallon. It also keeps Bedard in Canada, a big hope of mine. Fork the US teams.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 10, 2023 15:37:39 GMT -5
Defibately going to be aUS team, most likely Chicago... NHL probably hates having McDavid in Edmonton... can see Bedard as the poster boy in Chicago
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Post by Cranky on Apr 10, 2023 16:15:31 GMT -5
I may stand alone in that if we get Bedard, I would trade him for a kings ransom. With Dubois, we need a defensive and goaltending star to bring the team into instant contention. Or the very least, top 10.
I think trading Bedard is the golden ticket to giving us damn good team. Think Avalanche and trading Lindros.
This is what a kings ransom looks like....
Steve Duchesne
Peter Forsberg
Ron Hextall
Kerry Huffman
Mike Ricci
Chris Simon
Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993
Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994
$15 million
About the only team that has that many high end young assets to trade is Ottawa, Buffalo and NJ.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 10, 2023 17:11:21 GMT -5
You add Bedard plus what we get with the panthers pick and I think we are set for a decade.
Bedard, Suzuki and Dach at centre would be the most potent centre group the habs have had since the 70s... pretty scary.
Having wingers like caufield, Roy, kidney, Rohrer, Beck, Davidson, Farrell, ylonen, mesar...
on D, guhle, wifi, struble, Barron, Hutson, mailloux, engstrom, Matheson
I think the area of concern is goaltending but we'll have to see how Dobes works out...
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Post by seventeen on Apr 10, 2023 18:35:16 GMT -5
The Lindros trade would not have been a good one if Forsberg hadn't turned into the guy he did. Could we do the same thing? Lindros was a beast and a superstar, and fortunately (since I dislike Philly) he wasn't much of a winner.
The main message is that the team needs a superstar. Bedard would be that. We have strength on D and Dach and Suzuki are two really good centres to go to war with. There is depth elsewhere. We lack only the elite player and an elite Dman. Guhle or Hutson may be that Dman and Bedard would definitely be that star. The King's ransom only gets you more depth unless you hit the lottery with another Forsberg.
PS. I don't think Bedard eventually ends up playing Centre, but that's me. Doesn't matter. Patrick Kane in his prime wasn't a centre either. Bedard could be better than Kane.
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Post by Tankdriver on Apr 10, 2023 19:49:18 GMT -5
Agree. I see Bedard on the wing. Regarding Crankys idea of a trade, there is a cap now so that kind of deal wouldn't work in today's NHL unless they were all on their entry level deals. If that is the case I would rather go with what I have a take a chance with the generational player.
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Post by Cranky on Apr 10, 2023 20:56:10 GMT -5
So Stutzle, Chabot and Pinto are not enough to offset Bedard?
Remind me how many cups Philly won with Lindros?
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 10, 2023 21:10:38 GMT -5
So Stutzle, Chabot and Pinto are not enough to offset Bedard? Remind me how many cups Philly won with Lindros? I don't think the Sens would give up those 3 for Bedard... Chabot is their top D, Stutzle will be a great player, he's 21 with 38 goals and 50 assists and Pinto is a very promising Centre... |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 10, 2023 22:33:35 GMT -5
So Stutzle, Chabot and Pinto are not enough to offset Bedard? Remind me how many cups Philly won with Lindros? That's cause Lindros was a loser in many ways. No, I wouldn't trade Bedard for those 3 guys. Seriously. Chabot is not that elite dman (though he's pretty good) and Pinto is a 3/2 centre and Stutzle is a very, very good player who doesn't quite make the top 10 in the NHL, which Bedard will easily be. But, again, that's my assessment. Others may see it differently, especially if they are confident that Stutzle turns into something really special. |
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 11, 2023 0:57:53 GMT -5
Sorry, but I'm taking Bedard and running with the generational player. Guaranteed Cup in 5 years, and likely a few more. Just need one more before I go to live in heaven with all Habs fans!
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 11, 2023 1:31:16 GMT -5
Well, it's crunch time. Although we are nowhere near the playoffs, this last week may be critical to our future success.
So many games to follow this last week:
1) first and foremost Habs must lose their last 2 games (NYI , Bruins) and maintain 5th worst. It is likely we will lose both as NYI is in must win to get a play-off spot and Bruins think they're the best team ever to exist at any time on any planet. Meanwhile Yotes have one last game against Nucks at home. Maybe they put on a show and win but I don't think so. We must lose both our games to be in the 5 spot and have a 8.5% chance at Bedard;
2) now onto Fla: they play Canes in their last game and with a win they clinch a playoff birth and who knows where we pick in the draft with the Fla pick. But right now Canes need to win to take first in their division from NJ - so game on! But for that game to matter, we must lose to NYI. I don't know what HuGo or Marty need to do but losing to NYI is imperative for so many reasons. And Pitt needs to beat Hawks and CBJ to catch Fla- very doable. Buff can also catch Fla but with 3 games against NJ, Sens, and CBJ I don't see it. Main thing is to hope Fla is not in the playoffs.
3) lastly, is what teams can overtake Fla and drop their pick further: with a Fla loss other teams that can catch Fla with wins are NYI and Pitt and Buff (see above) and also Flames and Nashville. And Jets need to win to avoid being taken over by Fla if Fla wins their final game.
If everything works out in these last few games of the season we get the 5th overall pick and a 8.5 % chance at Bedard. And Fla's pick at 13th overall. Or we could be 6th with 7.5% chance at Bedard and Fla's pick at best being 19th overall but a Fla playoff run putting us in the high 20's and maybe even 32nd overall.
So lots riding on these last few games.
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Post by halihab on Apr 11, 2023 12:06:22 GMT -5
Well, it's crunch time. Although we are nowhere near the playoffs, this last week may be critical to our future success. So many games to follow this last week: 1) first and foremost Habs must lose their last 2 games (NYI , Bruins) and maintain 5th worst. It is likely we will lose both as NYI is in must win to get a play-off spot and Bruins think they're the best team ever to exist at any time on any planet. Meanwhile Yotes have one last game against Nucks at home. Maybe they put on a show and win but I don't think so. We must lose both our games to be in the 5 spot and have a 8.5% chance at Bedard; 2) now onto Fla: they play Canes in their last game and with a win they clinch a playoff birth and who knows where we pick in the draft with the Fla pick. But right now Canes need to win to take first in their division from NJ - so game on! But for that game to matter, we must lose to NYI. I don't know what HuGo or Marty need to do but losing to NYI is imperative for so many reasons. And Pitt needs to beat Hawks and CBJ to catch Fla- very doable. Buff can also catch Fla but with 3 games against NJ, Sens, and CBJ I don't see it. Main thing is to hope Fla is not in the playoffs. 3) lastly, is what teams can overtake Fla and drop their pick further: with a Fla loss other teams that can catch Fla with wins are NYI and Pitt and Buff (see above) and also Flames and Nashville. And Jets need to win to avoid being taken over by Fla if Fla wins their final game. If everything works out in these last few games of the season we get the 5th overall pick and a 8.5 % chance at Bedard. And Fla's pick at 13th overall. Or we could be 6th with 7.5% chance at Bedard and Fla's pick at best being 19th overall but a Fla playoff run putting us in the high 20's and maybe even 32nd overall. So lots riding on these last few games. Great summary Habsorbed. Makes it a lot clearer and saves me the time of figuring it all out. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Go Canes Go ! |
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 11, 2023 12:57:22 GMT -5
Well, it's crunch time. Although we are nowhere near the playoffs, this last week may be critical to our future success. So many games to follow this last week: 1) first and foremost Habs must lose their last 2 games (NYI , Bruins) and maintain 5th worst. It is likely we will lose both as NYI is in must win to get a play-off spot and Bruins think they're the best team ever to exist at any time on any planet. Meanwhile Yotes have one last game against Nucks at home. Maybe they put on a show and win but I don't think so. We must lose both our games to be in the 5 spot and have a 8.5% chance at Bedard; 2) now onto Fla: they play Canes in their last game and with a win they clinch a playoff birth and who knows where we pick in the draft with the Fla pick. But right now Canes need to win to take first in their division from NJ - so game on! But for that game to matter, we must lose to NYI. I don't know what HuGo or Marty need to do but losing to NYI is imperative for so many reasons. And Pitt needs to beat Hawks and CBJ to catch Fla- very doable. Buff can also catch Fla but with 3 games against NJ, Sens, and CBJ I don't see it. Main thing is to hope Fla is not in the playoffs. 3) lastly, is what teams can overtake Fla and drop their pick further: with a Fla loss other teams that can catch Fla with wins are NYI and Pitt and Buff (see above) and also Flames and Nashville. And Jets need to win to avoid being taken over by Fla if Fla wins their final game. If everything works out in these last few games of the season we get the 5th overall pick and a 8.5 % chance at Bedard. And Fla's pick at 13th overall. Or we could be 6th with 7.5% chance at Bedard and Fla's pick at best being 19th overall but a Fla playoff run putting us in the high 20's and maybe even 32nd overall. So lots riding on these last few games. Great summary Habsorbed. Makes it a lot clearer and saves me the time of figuring it all out. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Go Canes Go ! Let's hope HuGo and Marty have figured their part out. That may explain all the call ups from Laval. Critical games tonight are NJ must beat Buff, or Canes lose to Detroit so Canes game Thurs against Fla matters to Canes. And we need Pitt to beat Hawks. Never a dull moment when one is tanking  |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 11, 2023 17:18:15 GMT -5
I may stand alone in that if we get Bedard, I would trade him for a kings ransom. With Dubois, we need a defensive and goaltending star to bring the team into instant contention. Or the very least, top 10. I think trading Bedard is the golden ticket to giving us damn good team. Think Avalanche and trading Lindros. This is what a kings ransom looks like.... Steve Duchesne Peter Forsberg Ron Hextall Kerry Huffman Mike Ricci Chris Simon Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993 Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994 $15 million About the only team that has that many high end young assets to trade is Ottawa, Buffalo and NJ. Bedard is a generational talent. You don’t replace Gretzky or Lafleur with a bunch of pretty good players. Goaltenders pop up and fade out. |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Apr 11, 2023 18:24:23 GMT -5
I may stand alone in that if we get Bedard, I would trade him for a kings ransom. With Dubois, we need a defensive and goaltending star to bring the team into instant contention. Or the very least, top 10. I think trading Bedard is the golden ticket to giving us damn good team. Think Avalanche and trading Lindros. This is what a kings ransom looks like.... Steve Duchesne Peter Forsberg Ron Hextall Kerry Huffman Mike Ricci Chris Simon Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993 Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994 $15 million About the only team that has that many high end young assets to trade is Ottawa, Buffalo and NJ. It's an interesting comparison but the Nordiques received what I'd consider a generational talent in Forsberg (as previously mentioned in this thread) and received at least one other offer that also included another (e.g. Lidstrom). On another note from a marketability standpoint I'd argue that Philly won that trade. Isn't this all about business and branding for some owners? |
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Post by PTH on Apr 11, 2023 19:35:45 GMT -5
I may stand alone in that if we get Bedard, I would trade him for a kings ransom. With Dubois, we need a defensive and goaltending star to bring the team into instant contention. Or the very least, top 10. I think trading Bedard is the golden ticket to giving us damn good team. Think Avalanche and trading Lindros. This is what a kings ransom looks like.... Steve Duchesne Peter Forsberg Ron Hextall Kerry Huffman Mike Ricci Chris Simon Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993 Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994 $15 million About the only team that has that many high end young assets to trade is Ottawa, Buffalo and NJ. It's an interesting comparison but the Nordiques received what I'd consider a generational talent in Forsberg (as previously mentioned in this thread) and received at least one other offer that also included another (e.g. Lidstrom). On another note from a marketability standpoint I'd argue that Philly won that trade. Isn't this all about business and branding for some owners? You have to keep in mind that Forsberg wasn't that highly rated when the trade occurred, though. The NYR offer had Kovalev as an equivalent to Forsberg, and at that point in time they were generally seen as similar in value. |
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 11, 2023 21:23:11 GMT -5
Well, Pens lost to lowly Hawks and Fla has now clinched. It's been a tease all season with Fla being so bad out if the gate but Fla's draft pick will likely be around 20th overall. And the Crosby/Ovie era is now at an end. Must say, didn't shed any tears to see Petry dealing with yet another loss in a Pens uniform. Hope he likes Pittsburgh  So happy to have Matheson! |
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Post by PTH on Apr 11, 2023 21:59:49 GMT -5
Well, Pens lost to lowly Hawks and Fla has now clinched. It's been a tease all season with Fla being so bad out if the gate but Fla's draft pick will likely be around 20th overall. And the Crosby/Ovie era is now at an end. Must say, didn't shed any tears to see Petry dealing with yet another loss in a Pens uniform. Hope he likes Pittsburgh So happy to have Matheson! While we hoped that Florida's pick would be higher as they stumbled their way through injuries.... it's going to end up roughly where we expected it to be in the first place. |
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 11, 2023 23:53:48 GMT -5
Well, Pens lost to lowly Hawks and Fla has now clinched. It's been a tease all season with Fla being so bad out if the gate but Fla's draft pick will likely be around 20th overall. And the Crosby/Ovie era is now at an end. Must say, didn't shed any tears to see Petry dealing with yet another loss in a Pens uniform. Hope he likes Pittsburgh So happy to have Matheson! While we hoped that Florida's pick would be higher as they stumbled their way through injuries.... it's going to end up roughly where we expected it to be in the first place. That's why I say it was a tease. No doubt, getting a mid first rounder for Chariot is a great trade. But Fla has been pretty hot the last month plus. Could actually see them beating the Bruins in the first round. Not sure who I'm going to be rooting for as I hate the Bruins but want a decent draft pick from Fla. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 12, 2023 0:01:37 GMT -5
Well, Pens lost to lowly Hawks and Fla has now clinched. It's been a tease all season with Fla being so bad out if the gate but Fla's draft pick will likely be around 20th overall. And the Crosby/Ovie era is now at an end. Must say, didn't shed any tears to see Petry dealing with yet another loss in a Pens uniform. Hope he likes Pittsburgh So happy to have Matheson! Yuppers. This is still a good spot for the Florida pick given where they finished last season. Ignore the tease, and this is still a decent pick. As for PIT and the others that choked…you suck anyway. To the bilges with ya. Ginger Petry is infinitely better than older, pouty Petry. And it is not even close. Neither are perfect, but one is an infinitely better fit for the Habs right now and better player. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 12, 2023 0:42:11 GMT -5
While we hoped that Florida's pick would be higher as they stumbled their way through injuries.... it's going to end up roughly where we expected it to be in the first place. That's why I say it was a tease. No doubt, getting a mid first rounder for Chariot is a great trade. But Fla has been pretty hot the last month plus. Could actually see them beating the Bruins in the first round. Not sure who I'm going to be rooting for as I hate the Bruins but want a decent draft pick from Fla. Injuries were fairly normal for the Panthers, but where they really lucked out was on defense. At the beginning of the year, it was a definite weak spot and it still might be. Gustav Forsling was a waiver pickup from Carolina 2 years ago and he just seemed to be the right fit in Florida. Then there was Brandon Montour. If you toss out his first season in Anaheim where he'd be getting used to the NHL, and this past season, his career ppg is .40, which works out to 33 points per season. This year, he put up 73 points in 79 games. That's insane and completely unpredictable. He just turned 29 years old today. How many players blossom at age 28? Even Marty St. Louis was younger than that. It's nuts. Their defense goes from being a sieve to being opaque. He and Forsling missed only 5 games combined. And the final nail in the coffin was Alex Lyon. A career nothingburger, goes on a hot streak to end the season after Bobrovsky got hurt. What if Bobs dodesn't get hurt? No way he plays as well as Lyon did. It's like the hockey gods wanted to give Zito a reprieve....and they did. And now, if Florida plays Boston, I have to cheer for the Panthers. Who said the gods don't have a sense of humour? |
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 12, 2023 1:27:16 GMT -5
That's why I say it was a tease. No doubt, getting a mid first rounder for Chariot is a great trade. But Fla has been pretty hot the last month plus. Could actually see them beating the Bruins in the first round. Not sure who I'm going to be rooting for as I hate the Bruins but want a decent draft pick from Fla. Injuries were fairly normal for the Panthers, but where they really lucked out was on defense. At the beginning of the year, it was a definite weak spot and it still might be. Gustav Forsling was a waiver pickup from Carolina 2 years ago and he just seemed to be the right fit in Florida. Then there was Brandon Montour. If you toss out his first season in Anaheim where he'd be getting used to the NHL, and this past season, his career ppg is .40, which works out to 33 points per season. This year, he put up 73 points in 79 games. That's insane and completely unpredictable. He just turned 29 years old today. How many players blossom at age 28? Even Marty St. Louis was younger than that. It's nuts. Their defense goes from being a sieve to being opaque. He and Forsling missed only 5 games combined. And the final nail in the coffin was Alex Lyon. A career nothingburger, goes on a hot streak to end the season after Bobrovsky got hurt. What if Bobs dodesn't get hurt? No way he plays as well as Lyon did. It's like the hockey gods wanted to give Zito a reprieve....and they did. And now, if Florida plays Boston, I have to cheer for the Panthers. Who said the gods don't have a sense of humour? When you look at the rosters you almost got to go with Panthers. Chuckhead and Barkov are great players and made for the playoffs. After Pasternak, the bruins have no studs; even Marchand and Bergeron are well down on scoring. All the talking heads talk about the Bruins depth. That's another way of saying they have no elite players after Pasta. So can these depth players show up in the playoffs? And we're talking some unproven goaltenders, and no elite defenders for the Bruins. And the Bruins won't have the gimmick 3 on 3, or shoot out to pad their "record breaking" stats. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 12, 2023 12:20:47 GMT -5
The Bruins are a solid team. I won't question that, but as habsorbed points out, Pastrnak is their only truly elite player. Marchand has lost a bit in the second half of the season (age starting to show?). I base my upset potential on several factors.
First, it just seems everything has gone right for them this year. Few injuries, leading to a ton of stability so the coach doesn't have to switch up much. Good bounces, and while you make your own bounces, you do so because you're outworking the other team. The Bruins did a lot of that this year, probably because it's a contract year for several of them. So kudos to them. But guess what? Come playoffs, everyone works their butts off. You don't have that 5-7% advantage you had in the regular season because the other guys don't have the same incentive you do. Sheesh, they even had their goaltender score this year. And when he did, they reacted like they won the SC. That one instance raised these red flags. Cool for them and Ullmark? Yeah. Over the top? No. The goaltending, as mentioned above, is unproven in the playoffs. He's been in 2 NHL playoff games. His save % in the minors and SEL were good, but this is the most pressure. As well, there will be pressure from having had such a good regular season. Don't win the Cup and it means nothing.
If it is Florida they play, rather than the Islanders, that will be a tough matchup for them. Barkov is really good and that defense is having an exceptional year. It will likely boil down to whether or not the Panther goaltending gets hot. Should be interesting. Without the Habs in there, my interest has waned a lot, though. I might end up watching re-runs of Get Smart.
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 12, 2023 12:36:05 GMT -5
The Bruins are a solid team. I won't question that, but as habsorbed points out, Pastrnak is their only truly elite player. Marchand has lost a bit in the second half of the season (age starting to show?). I base my upset potential on several factors. First, it just seems everything has gone right for them this year. Few injuries, leading to a ton of stability so the coach doesn't have to switch up much. Good bounces, and while you make your own bounces, you do so because you're outworking the other team. The Bruins did a lot of that this year, probably because it's a contract year for several of them. So kudos to them. But guess what? Come playoffs, everyone works their butts off. You don't have that 5-7% advantage you had in the regular season because the other guys don't have the same incentive you do. Sheesh, they even had their goaltender score this year. And when he did, they reacted like they won the SC. That one instance raised these red flags. Cool for them and Ullmark? Yeah. Over the top? No. The goaltending, as mentioned above, is unproven in the playoffs. He's been in 2 NHL playoff games. His save % in the minors and SEL were good, but this is the most pressure. As well, there will be pressure from having had such a good regular season. Don't win the Cup and it means nothing. If it is Florida they play, rather than the Islanders, that will be a tough matchup for them. Barkov is really good and that defense is having an exceptional year. It will likely boil down to whether or not the Panther goaltending gets hot. Should be interesting. Without the Habs in there, my interest has waned a lot, though. I might end up watching re-runs of Get Smart. The old watch something other than the playoffs trick. The other thing about the playoffs is each team gets to develop a game plan for their opponent over a 7 game series - very different than flying into a city playing a game and then moving on to a completely different opponent. Let's see how Bruins respond with limited marquee talent in a 7 game series when the opposing coach can develop a game plan. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 12, 2023 13:19:02 GMT -5
. The other thing about the playoffs is each team gets to develop a game plan for their opponent over a 7 game series - very different than flying into a city playing a game and then moving on to a completely different opponent. Let's see how Bruins respond with limited marquee talent in a 7 game series when the opposing coach can develop a game plan. Thanks. I forgot that one. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of confidence in Paul Maurice's coaching abilities. |
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Post by Polarice on Apr 13, 2023 6:36:56 GMT -5
So Stutzle, Chabot and Pinto are not enough to offset Bedard? Remind me how many cups Philly won with Lindros? Tempting, but the Habs are already loaded with good young talent. If we get Bedard, we keep him, sign some vets and go. I wouldn't worry about goaltending, we have that with the kids. Sign a vet to help develop them and in a couple years we'll be planning the new parade route. |
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So happy to have Matheson!
