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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2023 15:01:45 GMT -5
BPA - whoever it is, just take the BPA. Top 5 as we have been told again and again are all potential franchise players. I don't care if we have to wait 2.. 3.. years for Mitchkov, you take him and wait. It will suck, but *if* he ever comes here we would have a player with the potential and skillset of a Bedard. You don't pass that up. Agree. Michkov is a Bedard with some conditions that pose risks to teams that have good options. At 5, those options will have disappeared, leaving us with the choice of a Bedard in 3 years, or something less in 1 or 2. If Carlsson or Smith is available, I think I'd go with them because the dropoff from Michkov is slight and the lower risks result in the value we want. It's going to be really interesting after Bedard. Even Fantilli might not be a lock at #2 though I'd be surprised if he isn't picked there. Anaheim has Mason McTavish and Trevor Zegras already. If they are their 2 future centres, do they really need Fantilli? Would they look at Michkov instead? Or do they pick Fantilli and move McTavish or Zegras to wing? Columbus is woefully weak at centre, so they're definitely taking one of Fantilli, Smith or Carlsson, whoever is there. San Jose is in the same situation as Columbus, only with a weaker roster. Couture is their top centre and he's 34 years old. They're definitely taking a centre. From a needs perspective, Anaheim is the only team who may not want to draft a centre, so my guess is that they take one anyway, and we'll end up with the decision of whether to choose Michkov or not. |
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Post by Cranky on May 9, 2023 15:06:26 GMT -5
If we take Michkov then I would seriously wave 10 million in front of his current club to get him here NOW.
If you think Ruzzia can't get worse, you'll be surprised. If he doesn't re-sign, they can draft him into the army at the point of a gun. The do that now by arresting conscripts.
IF Washington wants him I would trade him BUT they don't have young stars so it's a huge problem. If anyone can do it, Ovy can get Michkov to Washington. In fact, I would be highly suspicious of them setting up the Habs.
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Post by Tankdriver on May 9, 2023 15:17:35 GMT -5
We are selecting Dvorsky. I heard he is an excellent interview That's who I have the Habs picking. Not necessarily because of the interview but because the Habs brass were definitely scouting his games recently and obviously the Russian factor of Michkov. Our only hope is if San Jose drafts him. They are still way out on the rebuild phase and wait a few years. |
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Post by Scotty D on May 9, 2023 15:39:18 GMT -5
Price was 5th #5's among others who turned out pretty substantial or we trade suzuki caufield our 2 firsts and next 4 years firsts and hopefully are good before bedard is 30 ... |
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 9, 2023 16:06:12 GMT -5
It's the criticism we see after every organization prospect ranking. The Habs are really good but don't have any elite talent in the pipeline. I think I disagree a bit on that because if Guhle or Hutson hit their ceilings, they can be elite talent. There isn't that same possibility up front, with no disrespect to Suzuki or Caufield. They will be very, very good, but I'm not sure we'll be able to label them superstars. Or even All Stars in the current high octane era. Nick Suzuki ranked 64th among forwards in scoring this year with 66 points in 82 games. What is his realistic ceiling? If you say 80 points then that would have been good for around top 30, but he absolutely HAS to get to that at least that level as there is nobody else on the team who has that kind of production capacity. Caufield can be a 40-goal guy over a full season but he's not going to drive offense like Nick. You can do it with great depth like Carolina has, but that can be hard to sustain without enough high end talent. They've won their division for 3 straight years but haven't made it out of the 2nd round yet. On paper they seem to have good pieces (Aho, Necas, Svechnikov) but they play a conservative style and may not have enough high end talent. We'll see. It's more a talent game than it used to be. The days of the New Jersey Devils winning a Cup on the back of 2-1 games with suffocating defense and an All World goalie are over. I just don't see how we can pass Michkov up if he's there. My worry is Hughes maybe overthinking it and trying to be too smart, trading down, or drafting a lesser talent. |
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Post by jkr on May 9, 2023 16:31:18 GMT -5
We are selecting Dvorsky. I heard he is an excellent interview I think there is a sarcasm emoji missing here. đ |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 9, 2023 17:10:40 GMT -5
If we take Michkov then I would seriously wave 10 million in front of his current club to get him here NOW. If you think Ruzzia can't get worse, you'll be surprised. If he doesn't re-sign, they can draft him into the army at the point of a gun. The do that now by arresting conscripts. IF Washington wants him I would trade him BUT e don't have young stars so it's a huge problem. If anyone can do it, Ovy can get Michkov to Washington. In fact, I would be highly suspicious of them setting up the Habs. Those of us who remember 1972 know that Russians defected from the Red Army teams and showed up in airports from Switzerland to Sweden. |
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Post by folatre on May 9, 2023 17:38:58 GMT -5
Washington does not have much in terms of prospects, but the main payment currency would be the 8th overall pick. Of course, Hughes needs to extract a nice additional piece as the proper âmake weight.â For me it has to at least be a second round pick and if other suitors are calling and the Caps are obsessed with Michkov then it would likely have to be Lapierre.
Again, I would rather just use the pick on Michkov and have him explode onto the scene when the Habs are ready to contend. But Molson strikes me as a risk-averse billionaire so who knows.
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Post by jkr on May 9, 2023 18:33:02 GMT -5
I hope you are wrong about that. We saw Bergevin pass on thd BPA in 2018 & we all know how that turned out.
Talent cannot be taught. If it's there you grab it while you have the chance.
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Post by Skilly on May 9, 2023 19:27:12 GMT -5
Whatâs the concern with Michkov besides the longer wait? I guess the lack of control over his development, but that could be overrated if the guy is super talented. I donât think we can afford to pass on a talent like that. We already gambled on Slafkovsky last year, there are no guarantees with him. We need more high end talent and that is missing in our pipeline. Weâve seen plenty of muffed picks in the top 5 on players teams had plenty of time to evaluate in person. We passed on Shane Wright and a few others to pick a kid at #1 with a pretty limited track record for a top pick. The calculation is assuming Smith and Carlson are gone that thereâs a player other than Michkov with comparable talent and upside who is a better pick given the circumstances. Failing that I donât see another pick besides Michkov. We need horses not ponies. Michkov's father was found dead recently, floating in a lake. No real explanation from the authorities as to how or what. Given Matvei's notoriety, one wonders. Questions are raised, anyway, even though no one publicly knows the situation around Matvei's father's death. The contract doesn't worry me. If he spends 3 years developing in the KHL, that's ok, unless he ends up with some dictatorial a-hole as coach who plays him 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, just to show him who's boss. Oh wait, Therrien isn't coaching in the KHL. Forget I mentioned it. It's more about whether Putlerov gives a damn about him and intrudes on his career. If left alone, his contract runs out and he'll want the better money and lifestyle of the NHL. Talent wise, many (most?) scouts put him on the same level as Bedard and that is the enticing part. I would take my chances at 5 and pick him. We're not truly competing until some of our kids (Guhle, Barron, Xhekaj, Hutson, Slafkovsky, Beck, Roy, etc) have developed some more. In 3 years time most will be entering their prime playing years and the addition of a true superstar like Michkov would just blow the league away. If you take a Reinbacher or Leonard, it wouldn't be the worst thing, but neither is going to be a superstar and like Boston said, we need horses, not ponies.
It's the criticism we see after every organization prospect ranking. The Habs are really good but don't have any elite talent in the pipeline. I think I disagree a bit on that because if Guhle or Hutson hit their ceilings, they can be elite talent. There isn't that same possibility up front, with no disrespect to Suzuki or Caufield. They will be very, very good, but I'm not sure we'll be able to label them superstars. Iâve said this before when people donât include him in our future , but Logan Mailloux is the best defenseman in Montrealâs system. Yes the entire system. Iâm including Guhle, Matheson, everyone. An NHL scout after last playoff series stated that Mailloux is by far the best defenseman in the OHL, is by far the most NHL ready and feels Mailloux is likely going to be a 20 goal scorer. Bettman now just needs to get off his high horse. Mailloux admitted what he did immediately, pled guilty and is living a 2 year ban and counting âŚ. The Chicago Blackhawks covered up sexual abuse for 10 years and get a measly 2 million dollar fine. Actually, with it being so little can we actually call it a fine? Or was it payment to get the #1 pick |
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Post by Skilly on May 9, 2023 19:45:58 GMT -5
I really hope we donât draft Michkov
He doesnât have a clue how to play defense. Zero. He just floats around. In the defensive zone he show no willingness to compete for the puck. The only time he shows any sign of compete in his game is when the play is going up the ice.
He shot is world class. He is another Caufield, in that he will score more goals than assists.
His skating is poor.
But the thing that jumps out at me is that on various websites he is listed as 5â10â and 148 lbs!!!!!!
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Post by Willie Dog on May 9, 2023 20:31:45 GMT -5
Michkov's father was found dead recently, floating in a lake. No real explanation from the authorities as to how or what. Given Matvei's notoriety, one wonders. Questions are raised, anyway, even though no one publicly knows the situation around Matvei's father's death. The contract doesn't worry me. If he spends 3 years developing in the KHL, that's ok, unless he ends up with some dictatorial a-hole as coach who plays him 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, just to show him who's boss. Oh wait, Therrien isn't coaching in the KHL. Forget I mentioned it. It's more about whether Putlerov gives a damn about him and intrudes on his career. If left alone, his contract runs out and he'll want the better money and lifestyle of the NHL. Talent wise, many (most?) scouts put him on the same level as Bedard and that is the enticing part. I would take my chances at 5 and pick him. We're not truly competing until some of our kids (Guhle, Barron, Xhekaj, Hutson, Slafkovsky, Beck, Roy, etc) have developed some more. In 3 years time most will be entering their prime playing years and the addition of a true superstar like Michkov would just blow the league away. If you take a Reinbacher or Leonard, it wouldn't be the worst thing, but neither is going to be a superstar and like Boston said, we need horses, not ponies.
It's the criticism we see after every organization prospect ranking. The Habs are really good but don't have any elite talent in the pipeline. I think I disagree a bit on that because if Guhle or Hutson hit their ceilings, they can be elite talent. There isn't that same possibility up front, with no disrespect to Suzuki or Caufield. They will be very, very good, but I'm not sure we'll be able to label them superstars. Iâve said this before when people donât include him in our future , but Logan Mailloux is the best defenseman in Montrealâs system. Yes the entire system. Iâm including Guhle, Matheson, everyone. An NHL scout after last playoff series stated that Mailloux is by far the best defenseman in the OHL, is by far the most NHL ready and feels Mailloux is likely going to be a 20 goal scorer. Bettman now just needs to get off his high horse. Mailloux admitted what he did immediately, pled guilty and is living a 2 year ban and counting âŚ. The Chicago Blackhawks covered up sexual abuse for 10 years and get a measly 2 million dollar fine. Actually, with it being so little can we actually call it a fine? Or was it payment to get the #1 pick I've been on the Mailloux bandwagon for sometime... the kid has it all to be a top D man on the habs in an area they are weak in. |
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Post by frozone on May 9, 2023 20:37:24 GMT -5
Whatâs the concern with Michkov besides the longer wait? I guess the lack of control over his development, but that could be overrated if the guy is super talented. I donât think we can afford to pass on a talent like that. We already gambled on Slafkovsky last year, there are no guarantees with him. We need more high end talent and that is missing in our pipeline. Weâve seen plenty of muffed picks in the top 5 on players teams had plenty of time to evaluate in person. We passed on Shane Wright and a few others to pick a kid at #1 with a pretty limited track record for a top pick. The calculation is assuming Smith and Carlson are gone that thereâs a player other than Michkov with comparable talent and upside who is a better pick given the circumstances. Failing that I donât see another pick besides Michkov. We need horses not ponies. Michkov's father was found dead recently, floating in a lake. No real explanation from the authorities as to how or what. Given Matvei's notoriety, one wonders. Questions are raised, anyway, even though no one publicly knows the situation around Matvei's father's death. The contract doesn't worry me. If he spends 3 years developing in the KHL, that's ok, unless he ends up with some dictatorial a-hole as coach who plays him 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, just to show him who's boss. Oh wait, Therrien isn't coaching in the KHL. Forget I mentioned it. It's more about whether Putlerov gives a damn about him and intrudes on his career. If left alone, his contract runs out and he'll want the better money and lifestyle of the NHL. Talent wise, many (most?) scouts put him on the same level as Bedard and that is the enticing part. I would take my chances at 5 and pick him. We're not truly competing until some of our kids (Guhle, Barron, Xhekaj, Hutson, Slafkovsky, Beck, Roy, etc) have developed some more. In 3 years time most will be entering their prime playing years and the addition of a true superstar like Michkov would just blow the league away. If you take a Reinbacher or Leonard, it wouldn't be the worst thing, but neither is going to be a superstar and like Boston said, we need horses, not ponies.
It's the criticism we see after every organization prospect ranking. The Habs are really good but don't have any elite talent in the pipeline. I think I disagree a bit on that because if Guhle or Hutson hit their ceilings, they can be elite talent. There isn't that same possibility up front, with no disrespect to Suzuki or Caufield. They will be very, very good, but I'm not sure we'll be able to label them superstars. Jack Todd recently wrote an article that touched on the death of Michkov's father: LinkI think it will take something big for HuGo to steer clear from drafting Michkov if he's available at #5. Unfortunately, this is potentially that big thing. And it won't be easy for HuGo to do their due diligence on this one. Very few people probably know what really happened, and so I don't think the truth will be available to them. But... there will be rumours I'm sure. And at least a couple of those rumours are going to be concerning enough for HuGo to steer clear. That's my prediction anyway. |
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2023 0:21:04 GMT -5
I really hope we donât draft Michkov He doesnât have a clue how to play defense. Zero. He just floats around. In the defensive zone he show no willingness to compete for the puck. The only time he shows any sign of compete in his game is when the play is going up the ice. He shot is world class. He is another Caufield, in that he will score more goals than assists. His skating is poor. But the thing that jumps out at me is that on various websites he is listed as 5â10â and 148 lbs!!!!!!Not sure where you're getting your info from, Skilly. Hockeydb.com has him at 5'10" and 172 lbs. They've been accurate in a lot of situations, so I trust them. I haven't seen him play enough to judge his defensive play, but you're not drafting an elite player for his defense. Gretzky floated a lot. Patrick Kane doesn't defend worth a damn. But they score and that forces other teams to game plan for them. They didn't game plan for Bob Gainey. He is in the Conner Bedard class, not the Cole Caufield class. I love Caufield's game, but Michkov would be on a different level, able to beat defenders one on one and create space and time for everyone else. PS. I have never heard that he is a poor skater. |
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Post by PTH on May 10, 2023 0:40:18 GMT -5
I expect San Jose or Columbus to draft Michkov or trade down so someone else can grab him.
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Post by Tankdriver on May 10, 2023 0:56:34 GMT -5
I expect San Jose or Columbus to draft Michkov or trade down so someone else can grab him. That wouldn't bother me. I just want one of the top 5 ranked prospects. There is a drop off after that. |
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Post by habsorbed on May 10, 2023 1:07:58 GMT -5
I'm not clear on all the concern about Mich not coming to play in the NHL. Is there a history of a top Russian players not playing for a team that drafted him within the first few years of being drafted or later?
It is hard to believe a kid wouldn't want the good life of these spoiled NHL players. Even if he's getting decent money in Russia, he still ain't going to live the good life. I've read articles of how Caps will go for Mich if he's available at #8 because Ovie will talk him into coming over. Why would he need to be talked into coming over?
I'm happy we're in the top 5 as all the scouts rave about the top 5. If Mich is the only one left when we pick then we take him - it5's a no brainer. If someoine else has taken him then we take one of the others left: Carlson or Smith. Doing anything else is rolling the dice more than avoiding Mich if he's still around at 5. I don't want conservative picks. I want all in on the BPA.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 10, 2023 6:48:31 GMT -5
I'm all for taking Michov if he the last of the top 5... the kidvis world class... put him on the right wing with Suze or on the 2nd line with Dach and Slaf... our 2nd line could consist of a 1st, a 3rd and a 5th overall... Mich plays right wing but shoots left
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Post by Polarice on May 10, 2023 7:23:17 GMT -5
I really hope we donât draft Michkov He doesnât have a clue how to play defense. Zero. He just floats around. In the defensive zone he show no willingness to compete for the puck. The only time he shows any sign of compete in his game is when the play is going up the ice. He shot is world class. He is another Caufield, in that he will score more goals than assists. His skating is poor. But the thing that jumps out at me is that on various websites he is listed as 5â10â and 148 lbs!!!!!!Not sure where you're getting your info from, Skilly. Hockeydb.com has him at 5'10" and 172 lbs. They've been accurate in a lot of situations, so I trust them. I haven't seen him play enough to judge his defensive play, but you're not drafting an elite player for his defense. Gretzky floated a lot. Patrick Kane doesn't defend worth a damn. But they score and that forces other teams to game plan for them. They didn't game plan for Bob Gainey. He is in the Conner Bedard class, not the Cole Caufield class. I love Caufield's game, but Michkov would be on a different level, able to beat defenders one on one and create space and time for everyone else. PS. I have never heard that he is a poor skater. When scouts are comparing him to Gretzky or Lemieux..you pick him.  |
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 10, 2023 9:57:12 GMT -5
It is hard to believe a kid wouldn't want the good life of these spoiled NHL players. Even if he's getting decent money in Russia, he still ain't going to live the good life. I've read articles of how Caps will go for Mich if he's available at #8 because Ovie will talk him into coming over. Why would he need to be talked into coming over? The political/security situation in Russia has always been creepy, to put it mildly, and it's even creepier now. The oligarch KHL owners are connected so if they don't want Michkov leaving he's not leaving. Not saying they won't eventually let him go once his KHL commitment runs out but you have the situation with Matvei's father and I suspect he'll still have family in Russia when he eventually comes to North America. You see Ovie and the Russian players being very circumspect in their comments about Putin and the whole Ukraine mess and for good reason. They don't want to put their families at risk. It's the old mob line: "nice family you have there in Russia, shame if anything happened to them..." All that said, you take him if he's there at #5 and gamble that everything else gets sorted. |
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Post by Tankdriver on May 10, 2023 9:58:17 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on May 10, 2023 11:38:13 GMT -5
Thanks for posting TD... the most interesting blurb which I did not know is |
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2023 14:12:18 GMT -5
I expect San Jose or Columbus to draft Michkov or trade down so someone else can grab him. They're taking Smith or Carlsson. Both need centres badly and both those guys are really high quality. Elite. I'd love for one to fall to us, but Michkov is a smallish, albeit franchise quality winger. Neither of those teams, IMO, is going to wait 3 years for a potential superstar when they can resolve a huge weakness with a near superstar centre. Unless one of the 4 teams ahead of us makes a rather large blunder or knows something we don't (buyout of a KHL contract), which is problematic given the Gazprom ownership of SKA St. Petersburg and Sochi both and the sanctions against Gazprom, I think we're going to end up with the Michkov decision. He's just too good to pass up at 5. There's too much of a drop off to the next level and I'd rather take the risk than have to look back in 3 years and have that hollow feeling of missing out on a gamebreaker. There's a risk in not taking him, too. |
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Post by PTH on May 10, 2023 14:49:23 GMT -5
I wonder if we might see a Petr Svoboda type reveal at the draft, with Michkov ready to play next season...
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 10, 2023 15:27:17 GMT -5
I expect San Jose or Columbus to draft Michkov or trade down so someone else can grab him. They're taking Smith or Carlsson. Both need centres badly and both those guys are really high quality. Elite. I'd love for one to fall to us, but Michkov is a smallish, albeit franchise quality winger. Neither of those teams, IMO, is going to wait 3 years for a potential superstar when they can resolve a huge weakness with a near superstar centre. Unless one of the 4 teams ahead of us makes a rather large blunder or knows something we don't (buyout of a KHL contract), which is problematic given the Gazprom ownership of SKA St. Petersburg and Sochi both and the sanctions against Gazprom, I think we're going to end up with the Michkov decision. He's just too good to pass up at 5. There's too much of a drop off to the next level and I'd rather take the risk than have to look back in 3 years and have that hollow feeling of missing out on a gamebreaker. There's a risk in not taking him, too. That seems to be the calculus. Columbus and San Jose will both have really good options at 3/4 in Smith or Carlsson. You can see both of them taking the "bird in hand" as those guys are considered high level prospects, or at least close enough to Michkov to feel they are still getting a great pick. Montreal won't have that luxury. For the Habs it would be Michkov or the likes of Benson/Leonard, so a pretty significant drop off in talent. I suppose Hughes could trade down to say Washington at #8 and get an extra pick, but that would be a bit of a chump move. We end up passing on a consensus elite talent and a guy that fills a massive organizational need for more 2nd line talent and an extra pick. The proverbial 2 quarters for a dollar trade. That could be a career wrecking decision. Hughes may prefer that Columbus or San Jose takes the pressure off by taking Michkov (it would be pretty ballsy of them to do it given their options), but I agree with 17. I bet we end up with the Michkov decision. |
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Post by Cranky on May 10, 2023 16:48:47 GMT -5
If you get Michkov, there is a real 20-30% chance you never get him.
So...do you want 70%-80% of getting a superstar...or 100% of getting a star?
I keep scouring Washington's farm system and they don't even have turnips. Possibly the worse farm system in the NHL.
Will Smith...reminds me of Suzuki
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Post by Skilly on May 10, 2023 16:55:02 GMT -5
I really hope we donât draft Michkov He doesnât have a clue how to play defense. Zero. He just floats around. In the defensive zone he show no willingness to compete for the puck. The only time he shows any sign of compete in his game is when the play is going up the ice. He shot is world class. He is another Caufield, in that he will score more goals than assists. His skating is poor. But the thing that jumps out at me is that on various websites he is listed as 5â10â and 148 lbs!!!!!!Not sure where you're getting your info from, Skilly. Hockeydb.com has him at 5'10" and 172 lbs. They've been accurate in a lot of situations, so I trust them. I haven't seen him play enough to judge his defensive play, but you're not drafting an elite player for his defense. Gretzky floated a lot. Patrick Kane doesn't defend worth a damn. But they score and that forces other teams to game plan for them. They didn't game plan for Bob Gainey. He is in the Conner Bedard class, not the Cole Caufield class. I love Caufield's game, but Michkov would be on a different level, able to beat defenders one on one and create space and time for everyone else. PS. I have never heard that he is a poor skater. The KHL website has him listed as 148 lbs Eliteprospects.com has him listed as 148lbs Google has him listed as 72kg = 158 lbs I highly doubt he is 170 anything ⌠|
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Post by Skilly on May 10, 2023 17:06:27 GMT -5
One manâs scouting report
This lists him at 172 lbs ⌠(still small if you ask me)
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2023 17:08:18 GMT -5
[The KHL website has him listed as 148 lbs So, you're taking as gospel, Russian (dis)information?  If he was 148 lbs, it would be all over scouting reports, much like Hutson. Something like that would be a clear weakness the scouts would not be hiding. |
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2023 17:26:22 GMT -5
thanks Skilly. Some interesting stuff there. I wouldn't be worried about his defensive weaknesses. MSL wasn't a big guy and I think he would guide him properly in order to be at least an average defender, which is all you need. Those offensive instincts are high level and that shot is incredible. That's the real similarity between he and Bedard. Bedard has more speed, I think, but Michkov is very much like him in being able to fight through checks with a low centre of gravity. They both are very sneaky with their shots and extremely accurate. Another feature is both knowing exactly when to release the shot so it gets through. He'd certainly be a fan favourite, I think.
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