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Post by drkcloud on Jun 27, 2023 16:10:08 GMT -5
I'll try to look at it as Chiarot, Fairbrother and a 2nd... a little more palatable that way 😀
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Post by Skilly on Jun 27, 2023 16:14:21 GMT -5
I'll try to look at it as Chiarot, Fairbrother and a 2nd... a little more palatable that way 😀 That's exactly how I look at it. We paid way more to get Dach, and we all love that trade now |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 27, 2023 16:16:17 GMT -5
I like this trade, I think he fits into what we have going, be interesting to see how he's utilized... Still not sure who will be 1st line right wing.
If we keep dvo, does Dach move to 1st line Right wing, Monahan as 2nd line centre, Slaf on 2nd line LW and newhook 2nd line right wing? 5 of your top 6 are in their early 20s...
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Post by Skilly on Jun 27, 2023 16:30:27 GMT -5
Skilly. must be nice to have another Newfie on the Habs. First since Ryder? He would be the fifth Newfoundlander to play a game for the Habs - Brad Brown, Terry Ryan, Darren Langdon, Michael Ryder |
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Post by madhabber on Jun 27, 2023 16:55:39 GMT -5
I watched a few highlights of Newhook. (take it for what it's worth, it doesn't show his whole game) Sure he's got wheels and skill enough and his shot is decent enough too.
But I saw no dirty goals. And the Habs are missing dirty goals more than transition goals. Now he hasn't scored enough to have too many of those yet, so we'll see. But he is listed as a center. Where does he play?
Suzuki
Dach
Monahan
Dvorak
Evans
Pitlick - Right now that's my comparable to Newhook. Until I see more of him.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 27, 2023 17:37:30 GMT -5
I must be getting old because I had to look up all the names....
Mesar, Roy, Kidney, Farrell, Beck are all competitors to Newhook. Now add at least one if not two/three tomorrow and you can see why I'm not thrilled about this trade AND the price.
The generic complaint about our depth is that we have plenty of it but no stars in sight. This trade didn't change that.
Long before we are contenders. we will need to package most of them to get to the next level. Dubois package was the precursor of what a trade looks like to get higher echelon players.
To top it off, we still need to get RHD's and probably a high end young goaltender.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 27, 2023 17:39:02 GMT -5
It looks like Dubois is dead meat. I suspect that Hughes pulled this trade as some kind of consolation prize. It's not unusual for deal makers to pull another deal thinking they accomplished something. Unfortunately, the second deal comes with blinders and ego. Not liking any of this and Hughes shine is wearing off. I see it the other way around. We didn't really have the kind of assets the Jets wanted, unless we self immolated ourselves by moving kids we want to keep. Also, seeing as Dubois is chasing money rather than quality of life, I'm less than enamoured about his attitude and character and am very happy to see him go elsewhere. Regarding Newhook, I wonder if all you guys out East haven't seen him play enough. I may have seen a bit more because the Avs/Canucks games would have been televised in BC. I have liked Newhook each time I've seen him. He thinks the game really well and I've seen him crash the net with abandon if there's a scoring chance. He is responsible defensively too and had a Corsi of 54.1 last year. Zone starts were 43 to 57, so he wasn't sheltered at all. I think this guy has lots of upside. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 27, 2023 17:46:37 GMT -5
I like Newhook. He is fast and has above average skills. I expect with his size, he likely plays wing for the Habs but can also take faceoffs which is a good thing. He fits into the up tempo style that the new management want to have. He was also buried a bit on a deep Stanley Cup roster, so he will get more exposure now.
I think the price is a bit of an overpay, as I am surprised HuGo had to part with that high second round pick. Who knows, he may have other deals cooking where he gets some picks back.
Newhook also fits into that perfect age group that will grow the young core together. In the long run, this is likely a good move. Like 17 said, there is upside here and a long runway with him only being 22.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 27, 2023 17:48:01 GMT -5
I wonder if Hughes isn't half-expecting to get extra 1st and/or 2nd rounders when trading down... The timing on this trade seems weird though. Why now, what's the rush? I like the idea of Alex Newhook coming to Montreal, and I thought the Habs might have drafted him over Cole Caufield ... but my first impulse was to ask, how will Brent Hughes replace those picks ... will he replace them? ... Cheers. |
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Post by PTH on Jun 27, 2023 18:31:59 GMT -5
I wonder if Hughes isn't half-expecting to get extra 1st and/or 2nd rounders when trading down... The timing on this trade seems weird though. Why now, what's the rush? I like the idea of Alex Newhook coming to Montreal, and I thought the Habs might have drafted him over Cole Caufield ... but my first impulse was to ask, how will Brent Hughes replace those picks ... will he replace them? ... Cheers. I expect this deal was in waiting until PLD's got done, and once that was confirmed, Hughes moved ahead. I see Newhook as a bit of a Drouin replacement: 50 point, smallish skilled 2nd line LW, who can play C but doesn't excel at it. |
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Post by PTH on Jun 27, 2023 18:32:42 GMT -5
Sheesh. I don't like an agent trading for his former client... An agent/former agent may be biased but he knows the players capability and I'm sure this was discussed with MSL and how Newhook would fit in the top 6 interview with MSL about this is now online. |
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Post by Habit on Jun 27, 2023 18:36:48 GMT -5
So now we have 3 of the top 16 players of the 2019 Draft, that in retrospect seems fairly deep. Who is next... Kaapo Kakko?
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Post by folatre on Jun 27, 2023 19:19:23 GMT -5
Yeah, there are some similarities. Though hopefully Newhook is a kid who can deal with playing a secondary role and enjoy thriving in that. I always thought Drouin never felt at ease with the discrepancy between the player everyone thought he was growing up/being drafted #3 overall and the level of productivity he could actually attain in the NHL.
And, of course, Hughes needs to get him signed to a sensible contract coming off his ELC, which is something Bergevin certainly did not do with Drouin.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 27, 2023 20:29:31 GMT -5
Given the left side has CC and Slaf, Suze and Dach at centre, this means Newsy plays either 1st or 2nd line right wing... I assume they will put Monahan with Dach, so maybe newsy starts with Cole and CC?
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Post by PTH on Jun 27, 2023 21:45:05 GMT -5
Given the left side has CC and Slaf, Suze and Dach at centre, this means Newsy plays either 1st or 2nd line right wing... I assume they will put Monahan with Dach, so maybe newsy starts with Cole and CC? I expect Slaf to start out on the 3d or 4th line again. Cc-Suzuki-RHP Newhook-Dach-Monahan Slaf-Dvorak-Anderson Pitlick-Evans-Gallagher Armia and Hoffman pouting on the bench or Laval. |
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Post by jkr on Jun 27, 2023 22:03:49 GMT -5
I thought Slafkovsky looked his best with Monahan. I wonder if that will be tried again.
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 28, 2023 0:27:40 GMT -5
I like the idea of Alex Newhook coming to Montreal, and I thought the Habs might have drafted him over Cole Caufield ... but my first impulse was to ask, how will Brent Hughes replace those picks ... will he replace them? ... Cheers. I expect this deal was in waiting until PLD's got done, and once that was confirmed, Hughes moved ahead. I see Newhook as a bit of a Drouin replacement: 50 point, smallish skilled 2nd line LW, who can play C but doesn't excel at it. As long as HuGo doesn't immediately sign Newhook to an undeserved 6 year $5.5 million contract i'm prepared to give this a go. |
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 28, 2023 0:39:52 GMT -5
At this point you have to trust HuGo knows what they're doing in their evaluation. It makes me a little nervous that Hughes was Newhook's agent but one hopes that everyone around the table was free to give their true assessments and not worry about diasagreeing with Hughes. Bassically gave up two 2nd round picks for a high first who is hopefully about to hit hs stride.
It would seem that HuGo is identifying players in their early 20s who they are betting are about to break out, and approaching the teams to acquire them. In some respects it is likely more predictable than betting on a teenager in the draft which is a bit of a crap shoot after the top 10, and even then. Bottom line: are HuGo and their staff good at evaluating budding talent. Dach would seem to say YES!
Aside from asessing his hockey ability, I believe Hughes being Newhook's agent certainly gives him a good sense of the guy's character.
Still have faith in HuGo as so far so good.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 28, 2023 1:56:58 GMT -5
At this point you have to trust HuGo knows what they're doing in their evaluation. It makes me a little nervous that Hughes was Newhook's agent but one hopes that everyone around the table was free to give their true assessments and not worry about diasagreeing with Hughes. Bassically gave up two 2nd round picks for a high first who is hopefully about to hit hs stride. It would seem that HuGo is identifying players in their early 20s who they are betting are about to break out, and approaching the teams to acquire them. In some respects it is likely more predictable than betting on a teenager in the draft which is a bit of a crap shoot after the top 10, and even then. Bottom line: are HuGo and their staff good at evaluating budding talent. Dach would seem to say YES! Aside from asessing his hockey ability, I believe Hughes being Newhook's agent certainly gives him a good sense of the guy's character. Still have faith in HuGo as so far so good. I agree. Being a player's agent most certainly gives you a window into his soul (dramatic music). One other aspect that HuGo seemed to prey on, is highly thought of players who haven't had the opportunity on their current team as they would have on the Habs. MSL immediately states Newhook will play more than 12-13 minutes (it was actually closer to 15 minutes last year, but most of the higher TOI was in December. Did the Avs have injury issues then?) and be on the top 6. That has to juice up the kid. Anyways, Kadri was there one year and last year Rodrigues was used on the second line and then Colorado picked up Eller for the 3rd line and so on. If Bednar wasn't tolerant of mistakes, he may not have played a 21/22 year old as much as Alex would have liked. What I like as well is that he wasn't protected, starting 43% of the time in the offensive zone. Clearly, Bednar trusted him in the defensive zone. He also had positive Corsi of 54%, so that too is a good sign. The points, hopefully, will come. He has wheels though. Tons of speed. Hughes thinks he may be the best skater on the team. |
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Post by Polarice on Jun 28, 2023 6:56:33 GMT -5
I am hearing that the names Winnipeg were interested in were Slafkovsky, Dach, Montembeault, Mailloux and Anderson. Apparently, they wanted a combination of three with some late picks. I can see why the conversation ended on Montreal's part.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 28, 2023 8:47:33 GMT -5
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 28, 2023 9:37:52 GMT -5
To me, this move is ALL THE MORE REASON to stay at #5 and draft Michkov. If HuGo is right about Newhook, we just added another potential top 6 forward to the mix and we have guys like that in development. More darts for the board. Check.
What we still don't have is ELITE talent.
Trading down from #5 to add more good-not-great prospects is fine, but it's not what we need right now. The cupboard is pretty well stocked.
I like the Newhook move, very much in keeping with HuGo's philosophy of putting a premium on recently drafted prospects with a bit more definition to their potential and in this case a guy they know personally. So good on them and I'm a big Hockey East fan.
Now go and draft the Russian.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 28, 2023 14:55:23 GMT -5
To me, this move is ALL THE MORE REASON to stay at #5 and draft Michkov. If HuGo is right about Newhook, we just added another potential top 6 forward to the mix and we have guys like that in development. More darts for the board. Check. What we still don't have is ELITE talent. Trading down from #5 to add more good-not-great prospects is fine, but it's not what we need right now. The cupboard is pretty well stocked. I like the Newhook move, very much in keeping with HuGo's philosophy of putting a premium on recently drafted prospects with a bit more definition to their potential and in this case a guy they know personally. So good on them and I'm a big Hockey East fan. Now go and draft the Russian. I'd find out what it would take to get Fantilli. From what I read, he's an easy Dubois or even possible franchise center. I would give the Dubois package and our 5th for him. |
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Post by Scotty D on Jun 30, 2023 16:39:07 GMT -5
I agree. Being a player's agent most certainly gives you a window into his soul (dramatic music). One other aspect that HuGo seemed to prey on, is highly thought of players who haven't had the opportunity on their current team as they would have on the Habs. MSL immediately states Newhook will play more than 12-13 minutes (it was actually closer to 15 minutes last year, but most of the higher TOI was in December. Did the Avs have injury issues then?) and be on the top 6. That has to juice up the kid. Anyways, Kadri was there one year and last year Rodrigues was used on the second line and then Colorado picked up Eller for the 3rd line and so on. If Bednar wasn't tolerant of mistakes, he may not have played a 21/22 year old as much as Alex would have liked. What I like as well is that he wasn't protected, starting 43% of the time in the offensive zone. Clearly, Bednar trusted him in the defensive zone. He also had positive Corsi of 54%, so that too is a good sign. The points, hopefully, will come. He has wheels though. Tons of speed. Hughes thinks he may be the best skater on the team. i found a tid bit of info here Getting to know Alex Newhook(the hockey writers) apparently he was friends with Hughes kids when he was in the NCAA which maybe adds even more insight or maybe biased depending on the perspective one decides to take regarding his knowledge of Newhook along with some othert interesting notes on his abilities. Seventeen, I will add it is quite refreshing to hear a coach talk about how the young guys deserve the shot at proving themselves as we all know the past few coaches have treated the younger guys with a polar opposite approach which to me has been a massive hinderence to our development of guys over the years. This type of positive approach surely would have made a huge difference for at least a few of our higher draft picks that turned up busts. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2023 17:40:39 GMT -5
Good points about the opportunities, Scotty. The other benefit is that you find out sooner rather than later if the player is worth keeping. And it avoids mistakes in judgment about that player. If they have had the opportunity and not seized it....then no excuses.
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Post by folatre on Jul 4, 2023 18:21:33 GMT -5
Well, with Harvey-Pinard signed, management's next order of business is to work on an extension for Montembeault and to get a deal done with Newhook.
I do not really see Newhook as a centre, but his young career has shown that he can bring a nice blend of speed, skill, and determination to the middle six.
For me the Habs gave up a little more than warranted but that is not the issue anymore. The next issue is what kind of contract should Montreal sign the kid to now. I would not go long-term. I am not even sure I would want to commit the kind of AAV for something medium-term when it is not clear that he can necessarily stay above other kids in the pipeline.
Are there any comparables? Well, Mangiapane in 2019-20 was on a one-year deal after his ELC and he put up 32 points in 68 games and had a solid post-season with 5 points in 10 games. The outcome was that Mangiapane got a two-year deal at $2.425 AAV.
Casey Middlestadt had rather predestrian numbers over the course of his ELC. He got 3 x $2.5, which was probably a slight overpay based on what had been accomplished, but Middlestadt has subsequently played up to the current deal.
Newhook is a RFA with no arbitration rights so if I were Hughes I would essentially have a number in mind for three different contract lengths – 2 years/$2.5 AAV; 3 years/$2.75 AAV; 6 years/$3.33. Obviously, Hughes would start a shade lower and let Newhook’s camp negotiate their way up to one of those three numbers. If Newhook has a lot of swagger he probably jumps on two years; if he wants stability and less pressure then he probably prefers something longish.
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Post by Cranky on Jul 4, 2023 19:03:42 GMT -5
My concern is that if we give Newhook more then two years and he's nothing more then a 30 pointer, he may be surpassed by an avalanche of rookies.
If Newhook is a real 60 point winger and ready to break out, great, give him a 2 year and let him earn a 5 million contract.
If not, it will be a Burger level mistake. Own it and move on.
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Post by Polarice on Jul 5, 2023 6:26:35 GMT -5
My concern is that if we give Newhook more then two years and he's nothing more then a 30 pointer, he may be surpassed by an avalanche of rookies. If Newhook is a real 60 point winger and ready to break out, great, give him a 2 year and let him earn a 5 million contract. If not, it will be a Burger level mistake. Own it and move on. I'm thinking he'll get a little more term for a little less money. I'm thinking 3 year deal for 4-4.5 a year. |
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 5, 2023 9:44:11 GMT -5
Can't see Newhook getting more than Dach. I'm thinking $3 million at most regardless of term.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 5, 2023 18:31:47 GMT -5
Not sure why anyone needs to go outside the organization for a comparable
Kirby Dach
First round pick
First three seasons - 152GP, 19 G, 40A
Nick Suzuki
First round pick
First three seasons - 209 GP, 49G, 94 A
Alex Newhook
First round pick
First three seasons - 159 GP , 27G, 39 A
Montreal gave a player with seasons of 41 pts, 41 pts, and 61 points (basically a 50 point player) $7.8 million a year
Montreal gave a player with seasons of 23 points and 26 points (basically a 25 point player) $3.3 million a year
Newhook had seasons of 30 and 33 points (a 30 point player).
And he is only worth $2.5 million?
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