5th pick David Reinbacher.

[folatre]

I am bullish too. Guhle looks like a solid top-4 guy for the next 12 years if he can stay healthy. I believe Xhekaj and Harris have already proven to most pro scouts they are at least #5-6 types. For me Barron is less obvious. I think the tools are there but I wonder if he can scale things down and be a steady third pair kind of guy.

Among the kids in the pipeline, I would be shocked if Reinbacher cannot grow into an effective 22-23 minute a night top-four d-man. Kids like Hutson and Mailloux are not the same type of player but for me both are in 'high ceiling/chance of not cutting it in the NHL' category. Being an optimist who is not overly optimistic, I would be surprised if neither manages to have a very good (i.e. 500 games) NHL career.

I like the developmental path Engstrom is on. I had no idea who he was or why Montreal picked him where they did, but this kid looks like he has the mobility, ranginess, and simplicity to play in the league. And Struble is perhaps still a bit of a project who may need two seasons in the AHL to clarify what he can bring to the table, but being a solid skater who is built for physicality is not a bad base for potentially carving out a niche as an NHLer.

It is not obvious (and probably unlikely) there is an elite 1D stud in this deck of cards. But there is a lot talent. And management will undoubtedly move a kid or two as the roster architecture of the Canadien evolves through 2025.

[Cranky]

You guys realize that Mailman is the only likely call up if there are injuries. Assuming Buttman is not vengeful and virtue signaling.

You Mailman doubters will need to carry a fly swatter 'cause ima going to be a biting flea reminding you of your doubting ways.

[seventeen]

Aug 19, 2023 1:37:44 GMT -5 Cranky said:

I know beer league teams that had more former draft picks.

Sorry, I'm not buying Hughes bullpucks....

You realize Roman Josi is Swiss, no? And Nico Hischier, captain of the Devils. We used to laugh at American players and then Swedish and Russian and Finnish and more recently German and Swiss. Other countries are producing more and better players, which is good for the NHL and the talent level. I have no idea how Reinbacher is going to turn out, but it ain't a bad league he played in last year. Better than NCAA or any juniour league.

[seventeen]

Aug 19, 2023 23:40:48 GMT -5 Cranky said:

You guys realize that Mailman is the only likely call up if there are injuries. Assuming Buttman is not vengeful and virtue signaling.

You Mailman doubters will need to carry a fly swatter 'cause ima going to be a biting flea reminding you of your doubting ways.

I'll have to go from 'seventeen' to 'Thomas'.

[Willie Dog]

Aug 19, 2023 23:40:48 GMT -5 Cranky said:

You guys realize that Mailman is the only likely call up if there are injuries. Assuming Buttman is not vengeful and virtue signaling.

You Mailman doubters will need to carry a fly swatter 'cause ima going to be a biting flea reminding you of your doubting ways.

I'm a mailman fan and think he will be a top 4 on this team... if buttman isn't a hypocrite and allow chicago management back but not Logan

[folatre]

The Swiss league is pretty solid, certainly more challenging than Junior or NCAA. Of course, the counter-argument would be 'well then why doesn't Reinbacher play in Laval' since the AHL is the closest approximation to the NHL. I think it is basically the kid's choice. The same way it was Owen Power's decision to go back for a second year at the University of Michigan rather than join the Sabres.

Fans love high picks and home-grown players. We all do. So the dream scenario would be having a Hutson-Reinbacher Guhle-Mailloux top four for a decade, with the Sheriff and some other kid on the third pair. But for one reason or another, the likelihood of everything developing according to script is not great.

[Cranky]

I couldn't care less about their nationalities or random develoment outliers, i care that we develop players for the Habs.

There is no such thing as an argument that going to an inferior league is "development", Rein is perfectly capable of playing in the AHL and learning/acclimating to the far tougher game for the NHL. If management didn't think so then he shouldn't of been picked as a top 5.

That video is proof that it's nowhere close to AHL standards other then skating and passing. It looks far closer to "no touch" beer league with better skating and less butt bouncing. Rein playing there will learn NOTHING of the tougher/harder NHL game. Simply one year wasted.

Rein was drafted top 5. He needs to be developed as a top 5 ASAP or we are in a heap of trouble.

In fact...if Rein and Slaf turn out to be "servicable NHL players", we are going to be the Sabres with a decade of nowhere fast.

It's been almost 30 years, to be perfectly blunt, most of it is the fault of the fans for not demanding better. I quarentee you that Molson would make sure we have a winning team IF his existential competitor was 100 km north OR we boycotted his mediocre to failing product.

I'm tired of excuses. I'm tired of tons of hope and tankers of copium. I want to see no nonsense hard core hockey operation with the only goal to pick and DEVELOP players for one purpose...winning. ASAP.

[habsorbed]

My hope is Rein and Lane will both be elite dmen but i like Lane's chances better. Already shown to be exceptional, unlike Rein. and is on a steady traditional development path. Size is the main concern but between potential growth spurt and/or size becoming less important in NHL and skating being really important, my money is on him. And even if he's a defensive liability, his offensive skill and QBing a PP would be enormous and more than make up for the defence. Lots of grerat dmen have been weak defensively including the reigning Norris Trophy winner, and he's won it 3 times.

[Cranky]

Hutson has elite talents but we are fooling ourselves to believe that his size won't matter.

Other teams simple strategy will bd to wear him down. Check him at every opportunity. You have to be at X level beast size for that strategy to be mitigated, but NOT eliminated. When 16 forwards make it their mission to show tough love, it can wear anyone down.

Will Hutson have Ghally level toughness? Hope so otherwise he's going to be a limited and protected asset.

We'll find out soon enough. Meanwhile I'm swallowing extra copium and hope that the Mailman gets there first. If we have two offensive defenseman, it cuts down the ability of teams to focus on one by more then half. It changes the "wear down" strategy completely. It will let Hutson flourish simply because the other teams can't have a "hit him" strategy for one player. Plus Mailman is the second biggest defenseman behind X.

[folatre]

It would have been ideal to have Reinbacher in the AHL this season, as Columbus and New Jersey did last season with Jiricek and Nemec, respectively. But it is the kid's decision and management okayed it. Again, did Owen Power -- a big, skilled, smooth skating first overall pick -- really need to play a second season at Michigan? No, of course not. NCAA hockey does not resemble the NHL in any shape or form. But the kid and his parents wanted to emphasize growth that was not really related to hockey.

I did not want the Habs to pick Reinbacher at #5. But playing in Europe for his age 18 season is not that a big of an issue.

I was talking to a buddy the other day about Hutson. And I was ticking off some smallish, puck moving d-men who came out of the NCAA and frankly most of them never quite figured out how to be impactful in the NHL the way they were in college hockey. My bud Jon listened but said 'no Max you don't get it, look at the kid's freshman season numbers, he always has the puck, he is insanely productive. You like Quinn Hughes, right? That's who he is. Hutson is going to be like Hughes.'

I hope Jon and many others on the Hutson bandwagon are right. I would be happy with Hughes-lite.

[Cranky]

Jiricek and Nemec led their AHL teams in points for defenseman.

Second thing, no one can argue that NJ and Columbus is bad at developing their prospects. Habs on the other hand...

There is a reason they do pre draft interviews. It's not about their opinion on WW2 half mustach guys, it's about feeling out the mind set of the prospects. For me it would be a massive red flag if pending prospect is AHL ready but tells me that his dog has another year to live and wants to be with him. Or that he's not sure what he wants to do with his career and wants to go to school for a year or two.

Of course if it's a long shot prospect and can barely play in the AHL, see Norlinder, then it's no loss and wise to put a sign on ones butt that says...KICK ME BECAUSE I CAN'T DRAFT

I must of murdered a million cyber trees beating this subject to death. From 2000 with BC and through the years, I'm adamant that you push people to the next level to get them there.

All through my life "push" is a constant theme. From me getting pushed into 70 people division manager at 22 to pushing woman and unskilled labour to learn to be CNC operators to pushing floor people to becoming supervisors and managers, no one ever died and i never regretted "pushing".

Hockey is no different in simple basic management.

Anywho...Rein is there now and let's see what happens next. I know that Hughes got a lot of fans but just because he's not a clusterpuck like previous management doesn't mean he's Pollock.

[seventeen]

Aug 20, 2023 14:11:28 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Other teams simple strategy will bd to wear him down. Check him at every opportunity. You have to be at X level beast size for that strategy to be mitigated, but NOT eliminated. When 16 forwards make it their mission to show tough love, it can wear anyone down.

Will Hutson have Ghally level toughness? Hope so otherwise he's going to be a limited and protected asset.

That's his biggest challenge. It's not, however, as if the opposing teams in the NCAA didn't try that. He still put up 48 points and, interestingly, was +25 in those 39 games. You don't become that large a part of your 5 on 5 play if you're poor in your own zone. The schedule was 40 games, so he wasn't hurt much.

Now having said that, he's going to have to continue to master his methods of avoiding hard contact. Like Quinn Hughes, you get to pucks faster, you are really good at feints and changes of pace and you are an expert at twisting to avoid Josh Anderson pasting you into the boards (or some opposition version of Josh Anderson). The NHL is bigger, faster, quicker and more agile than the slugs in the NCAA (relatively speaking). Hughes and Adam Fox are both under 6' and are 180 lbs. I bet they weren't that weight when they graduated to pro hockey. (Yeah, yeah, they were probably heavier than 160 lbs Hutson is at right now). So there is hope, but it's going to be a challenge for him.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned is that Hutson's top end speed is probably average. His skating strength is in agility and angles. Is he fast enough for those strengths to translate to the NHL? Aye, there's the rub.

[Tankdriver]

What worries me is that say he does 1 year in the Swiss league, then the following year he does the AHL, that means year 3 it is the NHL. If that is the case I would of preferred Michkov in year 3.

[seventeen]

Aug 20, 2023 19:02:19 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Anywho...Rein is there now and let's see what happens next. I know that Hughes got a lot of fans but just because he's not a clusterpuck like previous management doesn't mean he's Pollock.

Good point. Being smarter than Forrest Gump does not make you a genius.

One thing I do like is that he and Gorton have a plan and are inexorably making moves that fit that plan. Getting rid of bad contracts is high on the list, solidifying the centre position, using CAP space, improving all facets of the organization.

Very similar to your strategy of improving your direct reports and then having them improve theirs and so on.

[Cranky]

Hutson is going to see a diffrrent level of speed and quickness as well as feel a different level of pain in the NHL.

82 games a year. Plus playoffs.

I wonder if we can create a different position like roving defenseman? Alternating between a forwrd position and defense?

He comes on the ice for a defense change then two more defenseman jump in while he moves up to the wing position?

It woild be a nightmare for an opposing strategy against him while allowing him to use his biggest weapon...his vision of the game.

Imagine Mail/Guhle and Suzuki/CC pulling The Swap. Certainly between Suzukis and Hutson elite vision. CC sniping and Guhle/Mail shooting i can see offensive mayhem.

Hutson is too good to be allowed to fail because of his size.

[seventeen]

Aug 20, 2023 19:34:05 GMT -5 Tankdriver said:

What worries me is that say he does 1 year in the Swiss league, then the following year he does the AHL, that means year 3 it is the NHL. If that is the case I would of preferred Michkov in year 3.

One benefit of playing in Chocolate/Watch/Bank land is giving yourself another year of growth and strength in a familiar environment. If that works out, he could play in Montreal in 2024/25. Or he may need 20 Laval games to acclimate to the ice size and style of play. Remember that after leaving juniour at age 20, another rangy dman called Larry Robinson spent 1 and 1/2 seasons with the Nova Scotia Voyageurs. Of course, putting up a point per game in his second season forced Pollock's hand.

[Willie Dog]

Aug 20, 2023 19:51:40 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Aug 20, 2023 19:34:05 GMT -5 Tankdriver said:

What worries me is that say he does 1 year in the Swiss league, then the following year he does the AHL, that means year 3 it is the NHL. If that is the case I would of preferred Michkov in year 3.

One benefit of playing in Chocolate/Watch/Bank land is giving yourself another year of growth and strength in a familiar environment. If that works out, he could play in Montreal in 2024/25. Or he may need 20 Laval games to acclimate to the ice size and style of play. Remember that after leaving juniour at age 20, another rangy dman called Larry Robinson spent 1 and 1/2 seasons with the Nova Scotia Voyageurs. Of course, putting up a point per game in his second season forced Pollock's hand.

If Orville became Big Bird lite, I would dance a Jig on Parliament hill on Christmas Day, that would be the best present ever.

[seventeen]

I'd be dancing jigs too, but the main point was that even a star as good as Larry Robinson didn't show dominance at the pro level until age 21, and that was in the AHL. After averaging a point per game for the Voyageurs he put up 6 points in 36 games for the Habs and then the following year, 26 points in 78 games. It wasn't untl his third season, at age 23, that he exploded for 61 points in a full 80 game season. I will also give him some benefit of the doubt because he was playing defense and doing so for an aggressive coach like Scotty Bowman. Ok that last part was clearly sarcasm. Bowman would have eased him in very slowly. So let's give Mr. Reinbacher some latitude. He's only 18.

[NWTHabsFan]

The trouble with watching clips from a NLA preseason game is it is…preseason. NHL preseason games suck toilet water too and are generally unwatchable with two-thirds of the lineups being wannabes and the rest being vets with roster spots going through the motions to not get hurt before opening night.

The NLA is a competitive league, especially for an 18 year old playing top pairing minutes. Will he adapt to the smaller ice of the NHL, less time and space and the added physicality playing in Switzerland? Nope, but if he comes over at 19 with a ton more pro reps under his belt he should be even more physically ready for that next challenge. There are benefits to both options, but he will get more ice time and reps in the NLA versus fighting to move up the lineup in Laval with coach Houle and friends. The Rocket lineup has loads of depth and more vets/known commodities that will have the edge at least at the start of the season. And there are a few other younger prospects who are a bit further along in their development who need lots of ice time this year too, like Struble and Trudeau and Mailloux. That also plays into management’s decision to have him play overseas. Ice time in Laval will be hard to get and spread around all the young D.

Honestly, both are decent options. Look at how Engström is blooming with Rögle in his 19 year old season. He does not look ruined and was great in development camp.

[seventeen]

At least when decisions are made by this group, it seems to make sense. Leaving Hutson at BU gives him the opportunity to grow (literally) and gain weight. It keeps him from neanderthals in the AHL and out of the competition that NWT pointed out. And I don't mind him being out of Houle's hands either.

[Cranky]

Aug 21, 2023 14:04:42 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

The NLA is a competitive league, especially for an 18 year old playing top pairing minutes. Will he adapt to the smaller ice of the NHL, less time and space and the added physicality playing in Switzerland? Nope,

That's the point. He won't.

Aug 21, 2023 14:04:42 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

but he will get more ice time and reps in the NLA versus fighting to move up the lineup in Laval with coach Houle and friends. The Rocket lineup has loads of depth and more vets/known commodities that will have the edge at least at the start of the season. And there are a few other younger prospects who are a bit further along in their development who need lots of ice time this year too, like Struble and Trudeau and Mailloux. That also plays into management’s decision to have him play overseas. Ice time in Laval will be hard to get and spread around all the young D.

What is the purpose of Laval? Winning games or developing future players for the big club? The argument that vets, which are pretty useless other then fillers, that they get prime time instead of the future, that would be a failure of the entire purpose of Lavals existence.

I agree that Struble needs TLC to develop, Mail needs to learn defense first, Hutson needs to grow, literally, but none of that applies to Rein. He needs to learn the game which he will never be exposed in the Swiss league, the taking away of time and space with physical violence sprinkled in.

I've seen Ghule, which is the same size as Rein, go to war with anyone in front of the net, an essential part of his job discription, yet Rein needs to be shielded, at least for now.

In the end, Rein is not going to be less then what he can be, hopefully, just take longer. I just don't like the lack of commitment and shielding.

Anywho...what's done is done. I just hope that we have the "teachers" in Laval focus on developing our kids. We're going nowhere fast if they fail.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Aug 20, 2023 14:11:28 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Hutson has elite talents but we are fooling ourselves to believe that his size won't matter.

Other teams simple strategy will bd to wear him down. Check him at every opportunity. You have to be at X level beast size for that strategy to be mitigated, but NOT eliminated. When 16 forwards make it their mission to show tough love, it can wear anyone down.

Will Hutson have Ghally level toughness? Hope so otherwise he's going to be a limited and protected asset.

We'll find out soon enough. Meanwhile I'm swallowing extra copium and hope that the Mailman gets there first. If we have two offensive defenseman, it cuts down the ability of teams to focus on one by more then half. It changes the "wear down" strategy completely. It will let Hutson flourish simply because the other teams can't have a "hit him" strategy for one player. Plus Mailman is the second biggest defenseman behind X.

I remember a kid who was super talented but too small for the NHL. His name was Gretzky. Not the fastest or hardest shot but lots of success in minors. Not saying the next Gretzky but???

[Willie Dog]

Aug 21, 2023 21:30:09 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Aug 21, 2023 14:04:42 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

The NLA is a competitive league, especially for an 18 year old playing top pairing minutes. Will he adapt to the smaller ice of the NHL, less time and space and the added physicality playing in Switzerland? Nope,

That's the point. He won't.

Aug 21, 2023 14:04:42 GMT -5 NWTHabsFan said:

but he will get more ice time and reps in the NLA versus fighting to move up the lineup in Laval with coach Houle and friends. The Rocket lineup has loads of depth and more vets/known commodities that will have the edge at least at the start of the season. And there are a few other younger prospects who are a bit further along in their development who need lots of ice time this year too, like Struble and Trudeau and Mailloux. That also plays into management’s decision to have him play overseas. Ice time in Laval will be hard to get and spread around all the young D.

What is the purpose of Laval? Winning games or developing future players for the big club? The argument that vets, which are pretty useless other then fillers, that they get prime time instead of the future, that would be a failure of the entire purpose of Lavals existence.

I agree that Struble needs TLC to develop, Mail needs to learn defense first, Hutson needs to grow, literally, but none of that applies to Rein. He needs to learn the game which he will never be exposed in the Swiss league, the taking away of time and space with physical violence sprinkled in.

I've seen Ghule, which is the same size as Rein, go to war with anyone in front of the net, an essential part of his job discription, yet Rein needs to be shielded, at least for now.

In the end, Rein is not going to be less then what he can be, hopefully, just take longer. I just don't like the lack of commitment and shielding.

Anywho...what's done is done. I just hope that we have the "teachers" in Laval focus on developing our kids. We're going nowhere fast if they fail.

I don't get the panic to get Rein over to Laval... Guhle was drafted in 2020 as an 18 year old and played the next 2 years in the Dub... that's ok but Rein playing 1 year in Switzerland will ruin his career? The kid needs to mature physically and I think that habs player development team have given him the tools he needs to do that. I think we will see Rein in laval next year better prepared to play in the AHL.

[franko]

Aug 22, 2023 8:53:42 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

I don't get the panic to get Rein over to Laval... Guhle was drafted in 2020 as an 18 year old and played the next 2 years in the Dub... that's ok but Rein playing 1 year in Switzerland will ruin his career? The kid needs to mature physically and I think that habs player development team have given him the tools he needs to do that. I think we will see Rein in laval next year better prepared to play in the AHL.

and the whole timing thing with Mich possibly coming in 3 years and Rein ready in 3 years so why not just take Mich?

we know that d-men take longer to develop. and while a scorer would be nice, I like a big solid d (my immediate thought after the draft was that we were going for a late 70s d).

let's re-visit the conversation in 5 years when there is actually something to discuss. ah, we need training camp to open!

[Tankdriver]

The problem is, like Skilly has been saying for years is the lack of offense. We need to get players that can put the puck in the net and put up points. When was the last time we had a player with 100 point season? Answer: Lafleur 44 years ago. I don't know if he is the guy but Nylander and potentially Matthews both could be hitting the market in 10 months.

[franko]

Nyet et non.

And is a 100 point scorer necessary ( I can't remember the last team who had one who won the cup and am too lazy to look, but did Vegas have one?).

[seventeen]

Offense starts with defense and vice-versa (though a lot of people might disagree with me on that point). The Cup winning Habs teams all had D-men who could move the puck. Robinson, Lapointe, Harvey, JC Tremblay, Chelios, etc etc. If you can't transition well, teams with natural scorers won't do well. Yes, you need finishers, so a guy like Michkov (assuming he isn't a cancer, which seems to be the worry), would help. We have Caufield as an elite shooter already. Suzuki is a solid finisher as is Dach. Gally has a very underrated wrist shot. Monahan has always been a scorer. I wouldn't call us great up front, but definitely solid and I'm excluding guys who have pre pro history of scoring but have yet to graduate to prove it (Mesar, Kidney, Roy, Farrell, Beck).
But who is going to spring them, or get them the puck? Can you imagine the weak scoring teams we had in the past without Andrei Markov or PK? How much worse would that have been?

Michkov was clearly bypassed because of either rumours or hard information that he is a problem child. That's yet to be shown at the NHL level, of course, but the Habs weren't the only team that judged the risk too high. That left them in an awkward situation where there were no elite forwards left, other than small ones and they simply didn't want to add more to an already smallish roster and prospect group. A big RHD near the top on their list then became the choice. Between Guhle (who showed some flashes of excellent passing and vision), Reinbacher and Hutson, their transition game should be highly ranked. And let's hope Slafkovsky takes that huge jump this year and starts becoming a real problem for opposing defenses. He's the wild card. He has been pretty well completely ignored by pundits as a bust. If he is now stronger and quicker and can maintain that level through the 3rd period, that is a complete game changer. This is going to be a REALLY interesting year.

[seventeen]

Aug 22, 2023 11:14:34 GMT -5 franko said:

Nyet et non.

And is a 100 point scorer necessary ( I can't remember the last team who had one who won the cup and am too lazy to look, but did Vegas have one?).

Mackinnnon missed 15 games in 21/22 and had 88 points. He would have cleared 100 easily. Scoring has jumped overall, recently, so those low scoring periods affected previous Cup winners.

[Cranky]

Aug 22, 2023 8:53:42 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

don't get the panic to get Rein over to Laval... Guhle was drafted in 2020 as an 18 year old and played the next 2 years in the Dub... that's ok but Rein playing 1 year in Switzerland will ruin his career? The kid needs to mature physically and I think that habs player development team have given him the tools he needs to do that. I think we will see Rein in laval next year better prepared to play in the AHL.

It's NOT panic, it's the right path for the quickest development.

[Cranky]

Aug 21, 2023 23:42:10 GMT -5 Habs_fan_in_LA said:

I remember a kid who was super talented but too small for the NHL. His name was Gretzky. Not the fastest or hardest shot but lots of success in minors. Not saying the next Gretzky but???

Apples and potatoes.

It wasn't Gretzky job to defend.

Hutson will get plastered repeatedly trying to stop or take the puck from players 80 pounds bigger then him.